Here's how The Washington Post processes that: "Senior U.S. official exits after rift with Musk allies over payment system/A top Treasury career staffer, David A. Lebryk, announced his retirement. Surrogates of Musk’s DOGE effort had sought access to sensitive payment systems":The @DOGE team discovered, among other things, that payment approval officers at Treasury were instructed always to approve payments, even to known fraudulent or terrorist groups.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 1, 2025
They literally never denied a payment in their entire career.
Not even once. https://t.co/kInoGWdw4C
Musk has sought to exert sweeping control over the inner workings of the U.S. government... It is unclear precisely why Musk’s team sought access to those systems. But both Musk and the Trump administration more broadly have sought to control spending in ways that far exceed efforts by their predecessors and have alarmed legal experts.... [T]he possibility that government officials might try to use the federal payments system — which essentially functions as the nation’s checkbook — to enact a political agenda is unprecedented, said Mark Mazur, who served in senior Treasury Department roles during the Obama and Biden administrations. “This is a mechanical job — they pay Social Security benefits, they pay vendors, whatever. It’s not one where there’s a role for nonmechanical things, at least from the career standpoint. Your whole job is to pay the bills as they’re due,” Mazur said. “It’s never been used in a way to execute a partisan agenda. … You have to really put bad intentions in place for that to be the case.”
Mr. Lebryk’s abrupt departure raises questions about whether Mr. Musk will now gain control of the payment system — and, if so, how he could use it. His exit also underscores the extraordinary amount of power that Mr. Musk, whose current employment status inside the federal government remains unclear, is accumulating at the opening of the second Trump administration.... He has told Trump administration officials that he aims to take control of the Treasury computers used to complete payments in order to identify fraud and abuse, according to three people familiar with his remarks.
The Treasury Department executes payments on behalf of agencies across the government, disbursing $5.4 trillion, or 88 percent of all federal payments, in the last fiscal year.... Former Treasury officials said they were not aware of a political appointee ever seeking access to details of the payment system, which includes reams of sensitive personal information about American citizens. Control of the system could give Mr. Musk’s allies the ability to unilaterally cut off money intended for federal workers, bondholders and companies, and open a new front in the Trump administration’s efforts to halt federal payments....
The decision by Mr. Musk’s efficiency team to integrate into the federal government, rather than set up an outside body, has been driven by its view that burrowing into the existing U.S. Digital Service will give it greater visibility into federal spending....
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107 comments:
Didn’t this vaunted system make hundreds of billions of dollars in fraudulent payments during COVID? Nothing to see here, folks!
This is my shocked face.
Acorn slush funds.
That’s a job for yes men.
It's like Dolton, Il. Only Yuge.
The swamp IS being drained. They only have themselves to blame.
“ Trump administration more broadly have sought to control spending in ways that far exceed efforts by their predecessors and have alarmed legal experts.”
The entire Executive power is vested in the President. It’s right in the Constitution. Ultimately SCOTUS will uphold all of Trump’s firings and overrule In re Humphrey’s Executor.
I’m thrilled with what Trump and Elon are doing. Once the American people see how effective Trump has been, we aren’t going back to the bad old days.
New paradigm. About time. It is 2025 after all.
Government people and the money hungry press are all in flutters that what is done every day in businesses to control an organization, are now being applied to the U.S. government. One of the main ways to get control of an organization is to control the checkbook. This should be basic new administration 101 stuff.
And ditto to Begley. There is no domain in the executive branch that is somehow independent of the President and political appointees. I suspect that many are complaining because their nice cushy unaccountable jobs are being brought into the light and they are being ask to account.
why would a resignation stop an audit?
Redistributive change schemes are a first-order forcing of shared responsibility through progressive prices.
For all of the local hive-minders who think taxing the rich will help stop inflation - no.
Ending wasteful gov spending will.
The highest ranking Treasury official, David A Lebryk, is resigning rather than complying with a request by @DOGE
What’s the old expression? “It’s time to get out of DOGE”?
Democrats seem to be extremely terrified of audits. Treasury disbursements, elections, campaign contributions, etc. Why is that?
I can hear the reporting “without evidence” in my head already. Nothing to see here.
Not a wise move on Lebryk's part, presumably this is the same system that will be disbursing his pension payments. He should have stuck around, played at cooperation so he could try and manage the outcome. Lucky he had that government job, he would never have survived in the private sector.
In the next to last paragraph see how WaPo set up the straw man? Musk isn’t going to cut off payments to bond holders!
To my mind, every single high school student in America should be instructed in classic rhetoric and the logical fallacies so they can spot crap like this.
“One of the main ways to get control of an organization is to control the checkbook.”
Not only is this true but it’s also understood by anyone who handles a budget . . .
Alarmed legal experts that someone finally is looking into how the government wastes taxpayer money.
It's approved somewhere else than the check issuer.
When do the American people get to approve such expenditures?
This is probably the tip of the iceberg. Initial reports always end up being tame in comparison to what we find out later.
Well, at least they didn't go on and on about how offended Lebryk was that Elon wanted an audit. Give 'em time, though.
No need for skepticism here. I’m sure that Elon is the better steward of this money and power and that there’s no reason to be concerned that the wealthiest man on Earth seems to have no tether within our government. All is well.
This is the second pinch-point to get control of an organization. You bring the approval function up to the top layer, or to a trusted layer. It slows things down for a bit, but it is critical for (a) seeing what is being requested for approval, and (b) getting control of what is spent.
Omg now I’m remembering the billions lost during Hillary’s State Department days. Nothing became of that for some reason. Same with Benghazi.
It's funny how they had no problem, in 2020, in giving Mark Zuckerberg's employees read/write access to Wisconsin's official voter rolls.
The Truth about Biden's NGO's
I hope Joe Biden ruined the corruptocrat party for as long as it takes to purge the snakes. Tammy Baldwin is a snake.
Sadly - people still vote corruptocrat.
Same old same old. When you don’t like the message, metaphorically shoot the messenger.
So the inefficiency, deceit and graft in the system was built in? "It's a feature, not a bug!"
Hence the designation: Fake News.
If the approval process happens someplace else, so every check should be approved, then the job could be done by a cron job, probably written and tested within a month by a small team.
I worked at a company once and there was a guy whose job was to program these very simple devices, based on any changes to policies made by management. This seemed to be a full time job for him, he was in the cube across the aisle from me, and I asked him one day what he did, and he explained his job to me, and I wrote him a little PERL program in under an hour that did his job for him, he just had to enter parameters. He kind of freaked out.
Am I reading this right? Does the treasury operate like a company expense account? Or worse, less accountable probably.
"without evidence!" is a Soviet tactic - and it's not working anymore.
"sought to control spending in ways that far exceed efforts by their predecessors"
Calvin Coolidge; President 1923-1929. Been that long, has it? Party lasted nearly a hunnert years.
So Trump has Musk looking into government inefficiencies and possible fraud, just like he said he would during the campaign? Who could have seen that coming?
Did Lebruk say why he is retiring? Did the NYT or WaPo ask him?
The articles suggest that the resignation "raises questions" about Musk's motives. What about the questions it raises about the guy resigning? Or the system he's resigning from?
Isn't it commonly the case that when one resigns in protest, one issues some sort of statement about what is being protested?
"“ Trump administration more broadly have sought to control spending in ways that far exceed efforts by their predecessors"
No matter how much I want to, I can't vote for Trump again.
Oh it "raises Fears". Among who, other than the NYT's reporters? Musk is now the new Liberal/Left target, they froze him, and have targeted him. It used to Murdoch. Now its "Neo-Nazi" Musk. The old cliche is you only get flak when you're over the target, and you don't get the Musk/Roger Ailes/Murdoch treatment unless you're a real threat to the Left.
So you go, Elon.
I sincerely doubt this guy is resigning because he doesn't want to be "partisan". I guess it "partisan" to deny payment to terrorists.
Whole lotta corruption gonna on. He suspected.
What would you say you do here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OvQIGDg4I
Amazing how many of these DNC-MSM news stories are little morality plays. They're always framed with a good guy and a bad guy. In this one, there's the noble, civil servant who's resigning out of relunctance to be "partisan". No need to investigate or probe if that's true. He's just the "Good Guy".
And then there's the "bad guy" Musk, his motives are suspect and "raising fears". Why is forcing out this noble true-blue civil servant? Is he going to do bad things? Stay Tuned.
An honest report on what it is like to work for the federal government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTdOHBIppx8
Does your bank approve your checks/payments? Not routinely. Responsibility for determining a correct payee, and a correct amount, and conformance with program requirements lies with the agency which originated the payment. When the agency sends a payable to Treasury,, Treasury doesn't have the supporting data for it, just as your bank doesn't have the data to support your payment.
Having worked for several Fortune 500 companies over the course of my checkered career, I can assure you that not one of them saw the accounts payable function as a mechanical rubber stamp job. They were the guardians of the company’s money and some of the toughest people I ever worked with. I still have scars from fighting with them over getting legitimate bills paid if something looked even a little bit off. But I guess government is different. After all, it’s not their money. And they have so much of it to spread around before the DoorDash guy rings the doorbell.
Can they track those fraudulent payments and if so then demand the money be paid back?
Democracy Dies in Disbursement.
Nothing is new under the sun.
And, of course, Musk is running into the "Humphreys" in the U.S. Government.
Ya play DOGEball ya gotta unmask a few smegs.
Actually they do. And they report suspect payments to the treasury department. Just ask Hunter.
This is literally the role (or one major role) of the chief executive as envisioned by the founders. Congress would decide what to spend money on, and how to pay for it; and it was the job of the chief executive to see to it that the money was spent for just that purpose. The chief executive has all sorts of discretion in this respect, he just needs to "faithfully" carry out Congress's wishes. Obviously, if the chief executive has concerns that funds are being diverted or paid out to the wrong people, or for unauthorized purposes, it is his duty to withhold the payments until the situation is corrected.
Biden, by contrast, both failed to carry out certain policies that Congress had duly enacted (most infamously, by refusing to enforce immigration laws); and spent money on things Congress never authorized (e.g., student loan forgiveness). The founders would have been aghast that he was never impeached and removed from office just for these two things.
I agree with DOGE, but i sympathize with the Treasury employee. He left because he felt he was in a no-win situation. Either refuse an order - a pretty clear firing offense - or give access to a very sensitive financial system to someone whose governmental status isnt clear. That could also be a firing offense if another Admin comes in, or even under this one, if the haste results in a security breach and the politicals resort to “well I didnt tell him to do it THAT way!”
Rather than endure the tsoris, if you’re able to retire, just retire.
JSM
Trump thinking to himself, "Why didn't I think of this eight years ago?"
THIS stuff is a great use of the DOGE team. Return-to-work buyout offers with no true buyout...not so much...
"Joe Biden" did nothing at all. He lacked the cognitive ability to function as President, and didn't understand what his puppet masters made him sign. His handlers were corrupt and seditious. Before the cultural changes that corresponded with the McCarthy era (i.e., ends-justifies-the-means leftism) Biden's handlers likely would have been executed.
THIS is why we needed to take over and remake the Republican party. The GOP was effectively operating as a shell corporation for the Democrat Deep State Party.
Kentucky needs a different governor
Trump was an idealistic babe-in-the-woods in 2017. He said "drain the swamp" as he walked into a den of vipers and alligators seeking to eat him. In his own party. The Democrats had the resources to lay landmines under his shoes at every step.
"Does the treasury operate like a company expense account?"
It operates as a bank. Your bank looks to see that your check is properly written and that there's money in your account. It's not in a position, though, to stop you from writing checks to Theranos or Herbalife.
The gnashing of teeth that occurred when Federal payments were "paused" for one day was astonishing and truly pathetic. CA Speaker Jesse Unruh said in 1966, "money is the mother's milk of politics." Take note about who is worried that the wet nurse is leaving town.
WaPo implies a takeover move by Musk. Is it even possible that moronic journalistic ideologues will ever see, let alone report, what's actually happening.
This just makes me want to fap. I mean, not literally. But close.
“Sensitive payment systems” = facts we’d prefer you not know.
Back when I was running projects, one of the tricks I had was to get my accountant to run a list of every single expenditure that was being charged against my authorization, my approved budget. I could keep track of project-related invoices all day long (checked & approved every one), and pay all those bills. But when I got those lists, I learned that, in the foreign branch of a large oil & gas company, you might be surprised at who charges you, and that it gets paid without you necessarily knowing. You'd be amazed at how many hitchhikers you pick up, of the parasitical variety. And people that don't do much productive work are free to imagine new ways to fleece the system for their sinecure, claiming 'oversight' and 'expertise' as their contribution. Maybe even their whole department's contribution. Sounds like Musk is doing the same thing. Actual Expenditures are not the same thing as The Budget, and this can get big quickly when there's a 'wink & nod' culture entrenched.
There is no domain in the executive branch that is somehow independent of the President and political appointees.
Even if this was true (and the "unitary executive" theory used to be limited to crackpots), Elon Musk is neither the President nor a political appointee.
Even you must realize that giving someone who has no authority or formal role is not a good idea.
Jersey Fled, AMEN. At my office we have an internal audit group outside our Accounting function (reports to the GC, not the CFO) and the Accounting group works with external auditors almost constantly. They're the most watched group in the company, because it's the money. Our CAO is a man of great integrity - I've known him for years and he's as honest as the day - but no one ever says "oh hey, he's such a good guy, let's just trust him". That's not the way this works.
And funny, I always thought all of this audit stuff was driven by statute. How interesting that the rules that apply to companies don't seem to apply to the government.
Freder - the UN-elected Democratic bureaucrats who ran the show - including The Soros family - never had the authority to ruin our nation.
Jersey Fled and Aggie: Yes, Yes, Yes! The Accounts Payable folks are always far tougher than upper management on expenditures. Sometimes it seems just annoying when they flag an invoice for what looks like a trivial problem, but you'd be amazed how much they can catch. Even in a tiny little college in a tiny corner of academia, there's all kinds of weirdness. I have a research/teaching fund that a family donates to the college. It is SPECIFICALLY to support my teaching and research (sadly, the only thing I can't use it on is paying myself; I use it to give summer stipends to students). Three years running Accounts Payable caught departments and individuals paying their expenses out of my fund "by mistake" or "I though you wouldn't mind because we spent out our honorarium budget," etc.
If this part of the Treasury is actually just a rubber stamp, then why are there people working there? "The Two Bobs" clip from Office Space is apposite. Who is getting money that isn't supposed to be getting money.
I think history will prove that Trump's "loss" to Biden in the 2020 election was a godsend for the United States. Sure, Creepy Joe messed things up. But … Trump took advantage of his hiatus to look deeply into (#1) what went wrong in his first term and (#2) just how screwed up the entire federal bureaucracy is. Trump's a very successful businessman, he ain't no dummy, and he knows how to fix an organization that's severely broken. Like DJT or not, our country NEEDS someone like him at this point in time to get us back on the rails.
"They literally never denied a payment in their entire career. Not even once." is what Musk has said in his tweet.
But the question not answered is, 'Is it their job to query a payment before disbursing funds?"
If Treasury's role is to simply issue funds and make payments, then it might not be within their authority to question the reason for the request. It might be within their authority to ensure there was an approved budget to draw funds from, and that the payment had been approved by an authorized budget holder.
It doesn't sound like we're getting the full story here. It sounds like dramatization.
When exactly did Soros do anything that even comes close to what Musk is doing. And wtf happened to Begley's boyfriend Ramaswamy, he seems to have been pushed out of DOGE.
I'm looking forward to seeing the DOGE audit results for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Especially expenditures/grants from their "slush fund".
As a Forest Service Zone Manager in Contracting, I was once called by someone at one of the Forest Supervisor's Office asking me to pay a bill for plaques. It seems the person who was in the position before the caller had a 'deal' to make plaques for the Forest in return for Maps, but they no longer made maps so the vendor needed to be paid. I told them no contract, no payment and maybe the IG needs to be involved since they had an illegal scheme going on with the trade market. Another time, I was called by a different office and asked to pay for some photographs/posters they had someone take for the office. No purchase order, etc. In addition, the photographer stated they needed extra payment for their copyright use. I told them to F' off. These were small purchases, but telling of the attitude of the feds. I filed one IG Hotline regarding improper payments and a violation of the Competition in Contracting act. It went no where. Thank God I am retired. I hated those bastards. I know the Federal Acquisition Regulations are difficult, but I could almost always find a way to meet legitimate requirements, but those F'ers had absolutely no respect for the system.
Just seeing in which countries the payees reside could be very interesting.
As a retired Fed, I have NO SYMPATHY for that guy. He no doubt had many opportunities to say no to egregious payments. It might have hurt and it might have been painful, but I never approved an action that would have compromised my integrity. So screw him. BTW, I tried to have an audit performed on one of my Grants and Agreements Officers after I took over as her supervisor. It never happened because the higher ups protected. Later, I had her dead to rights to terminate her after she FORGED an email. It was a battle to give her any kind of punishment at all. My supervisor advised me to delete all the emails associated with this incident. So I immediately backed them up and printed them out. Burn it down and start over.
I just had to jump through hoops to get a wire transfer approved by my bank, so the answer to your question is yes.
It won't. What it will do, however, is possibly put the official out of range of an investigation by an IG or Congress.
"unitary executive" theory used to be limited to crackpots
Ok, Fredo- what part of the Executive Branch does the President not control?
"Even you must realize that giving someone who has no authority or formal role is not a good idea."
Musk's authority comes from Trump himself. Are you seriously telling us that Trump as President doesn't have the right to delegate his authority?
It is the equivalent of a subpoena for bank records.
It's a pretty common scam to send out invoices for services and/or products to organizations that weren't actually provided. A lot of places don't have proper procedures and sometimes they'll just pay them.
Oh, and the federal government requires people working at a bank to take two weeks vacation every year because embezzlement is usually uncovered when the embezzler isn't around to cover up for themselves.
And in any well run organization any checks being written should require two signatures.
Government: “We need more money! Our payments exceed our budget!”
Us: “How about you stop paying money to those who aren’t supposed to get it?”
Government: “That’s too much work! Just keep giving us more money every year so we can keep paying out money.”
"It might be within their authority to ensure there was an approved budget to draw funds from, and that the payment had been approved by an authorized budget holder."
So, never in any of these personages careers, has there ever been a problem with that?
"Did Lebruk say why he is retiring? Did the NYT or WaPo ask him?
The articles suggest that the resignation "raises questions" about Musk's motives. What about the questions it raises about the guy resigning? Or the system he's resigning from? Isn't it commonly the case that when one resigns in protest, one issues some sort of statement about what is being protested?"
From the WaPo article: "When Scott Bessent was confirmed as treasury secretary on Monday, Lebryk ceased to be the acting agency head. Trump administration officials placed Lebryk on administrative leave before he announced he would step down, two of the people said."
Musk's authority comes from Trump himself. Are you seriously telling us that Trump as President doesn't have the right to delegate his authority?
Yes, I am. Where in the constitution does the right exist to delegate presidential powers to someone who has no formal connection with the federal government?
The New York Times links to a report showing a quarter-trillion dollars in improper payments in FY2023. Four percent of the total spending (and that doesn't include some programs).
If you make $100,000/year, would you be ok with overpaying $4,000/year on things you didn't authorize?
It's not a swamp, it's a reeking sewer.
A note about Lebryk's Bureau of the Fiscal Service:
Among some of its better known duties is to collect any voluntary donations made to the government for reduction of the public debt. The amount of donations has averaged $2.3 million per year during the last 26 years. By comparison, the public debt was over $20 trillion as of 2017.
C'mon people, just $19,999,997,700,000 to put us over the top.
Then we can start in on the $13 trillion we've accumulated since 2017.
"[T]he possibility that government officials might try to use the federal payments system — which essentially functions as the nation’s checkbook — to enact a political agenda is unprecedented, said Mark Mazur, who served in senior Treasury Department roles during the Obama and Biden administrations."
Perhaps that is a quote that is slightly out of context, but it truly is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
“This is a mechanical job — they pay Social Security benefits, they pay vendors, whatever. It’s not one where there’s a role for nonmechanical things, at least from the career standpoint. Your whole job is to pay the bills as they’re due,” Mazur said.
If that statement is accurate, that means it's the closest thing to objective truth in the entire federal government. It's the biggest pile of smoking guns in the country.
" It is unclear precisely why Musk’s team sought access to those systems."
The NYT has to be joking. I'm an accountant (CPA in US speak). Of course, if I want to root out waste and fraud, I'd want access to those systems. And for a senior Treasury person to resign rather than doing so indicates plenty to hide.
"t's approved somewhere else than the check issuer." And they should have to prove it.
They should also have to cooperate when asked "who approved this payment?" In order to do that type of investigation, you first have to see what payments were made.
“Yes, I am. Where in the constitution does the right exist to delegate presidential powers to someone who has no formal connection with the federal government?”
Where does it say it doesn’t?
As for your argument against the “Unitary Executive” theory - it’s propounded by Dem and leftist law profs and the like to empower the Deep State. Of course they all think that they have adequately discredited it. They haven’t come close. And the closer it got to the 6-3 R/D Supreme Court, the weaker that discrediting looked.
Article II, § 1, Sentence 1 recites: “The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America”. Not the President at the consent of the Executive Branch, or even of Congress. The President.
Empowering private individuals is nothing unique with Trump. FDR did it during WW II. The reality is that if government bureaucrats balk here, with giving Musk, etc, information, they can expect a call later that day from the WH, and if that isn’t effective, being summarily fired by Trump or that employees Department head. There is a saying that you never want the head of your large company to ever know your name, for anything the least bit bad. This means that you really don’t want Trump, or even the Cabinet Secretary above you, to know your name, for pulling that sort of stunt. And note the fate of the DOJ attys and FBI agents who worked on the cases against Trump. He knew their names, and they are no longer federal employees.
“And in any well run organization any checks being written should require two signatures.”
When I was president of my fraternity chapter in college, we found that a former treasurer had been embezzling funds from the chapter. Current treasurer (ultimately was MBA, JD, CPA, and LLM in tax) and I knew enough accounting by then to implement that safeguard. Any checks needed 2 signatures from President, VP, and treasurer.
Where’s a Hawaiian judge when you need em?
"Yes, I am. Where in the constitution does the right exist to delegate presidential powers to someone who has no formal connection with the federal government?"
Musk's formal connection is that Trump has delegated to him and his team the power to do what they are doing. Prove otherwise, Fredo.
Here is your formal connection, Fredo: Executive Order Creating DOGE
That's why I strongly suspect we are not getting the full story here. What exactly is Musk saying? He is not saying that there is no process, or that there are no procedures to be followed, or that they aren't following those procedures. It's hard to get nuance out of a tweet, but that's not the same thing as saying that the issue is completely devoid of nuance. The guy that resigned has a pretty sterling reputation from all within his agency for being a straight player, fair-minded and apolitical throughout his tenure, which spanned multiple administrations from both sides. I want to see more before coming to a conclusion.
"I want to see more before coming to a conclusion."
Spoilsport.
Decades ago I worked for a company that made hardware sold to civilians, like nuke plants and oil companies, and also to the US military. Eventually we became subject to the "1411 Rollup" accounting rules, which were fundamentally incompatible with operations at a typical Silicon Valley company. ( long story...)
The upshot was that people started looking for big budget projects to bill for costs that would otherwise not have been paid.
I, for one, am very happy the Democrats stole the 2020 election.
"That's why I strongly suspect we are not getting the full story here. What exactly is Musk saying? He is not saying that there is no process, or that there are no procedures to be followed, or that they aren't following those procedures. It's hard to get nuance out of a tweet..."
You're more likely to get the full story on X than you would be looking for it in the NYT or WaPo.
Just sayin'.
Aggie, Merrick Garland "had a pretty sterling reputation within his own agency," etc. and turned out to be the most egregious political hack ever to hold the position of Attorney General, so I am extremely skeptical of people who have "sterling reputations" or are "apolitical straight shooters." Possibly they are just a little better at hiding their intrinsic hack-ness.
Good Lord. The NYT and Wapo should provide a class on the U.S. Constitution for their reporters. Like I tell my daughters, it's not long or complicated. Just read it.
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