If I agree with China that it's economic bullying and plundering, is it because of all the TikTok I've looked at — all that supposed manipulation? But the U.S. government has been attempting to manipulate me into thinking it's protecting me from manipulation by a foreign adversary. My position is that I will hear all the manipulations and make up my own mind. (Yes, my position is the traditional — bedrock — theory of free speech. I shouldn't have to say that. It should be engraved on your heart.)
@chaychaywayway thank you. @Savannah @crashnburn.2 . . #늙음필터 #greenscreen #VikingRise #fypシ #fyp #spiderverse #cod #taylorswift #dialysis #kidneyfailure #kidneytransplant #iganephropathy #raredisease #selenagomez #zendaya #hopecore #hopecoretok #tiktokban #bannedtiktok ♬ original sound - Katie H.
@mainematthew #tiktokban #tiktokbanned #travelingwithmatthew #thevillageisgoodtome #mainecamplife #banmeta ♬ Beethoven's "Moonlight"(871109) - 平松誠
@ronswon I’ll probably record TikTok’s final moments on tape if it happens. #retro #vintage #tiktokban #vcr #betamax #beta #retrotech #vintage ♬ We'll Meet Again - Vera Lynn
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101 comments:
assuming that Elon buys Tik Tok.. where Will all the lefties go? BluSky? OF?
For financing perhaps he can go back to the same banks he persuaded to finance his purchase of X, and are still stuck with hundreds of millions of losses on unsellable loans.
This post, more than any other source I've read to date, persuades me that the Chinese Communist Party is the true force behind the TikTok curtain.
Which adds a new dimension to my favorability toward "content neutral" spyware regulation of the TikTok app along with all others.
All the cool kids are switching 小红书. So ha ha ha controlling zools of the US Government. The Little Red Book app allows you send your data directly to China! That app has an avalanche of people making new friends in China, who seem very friendly and generally delighted to have Americans join.
Law Professors are prime targets for manipulation by Commie Videos.
How is tick tock different from YouTube shorts? I ask because I have not downloaded the ChiCom spyware required to observe the videos.
Adults can recognize or ignore manipulation and find ways around it. Children are far more susceptible and are absolutely targeted by the CCP. Their own content restrictions for the Chinese market confirm it.
The CCP equates to thousands of years of highly tribal and conforming Chinese culture. Long ago they redefined everyone they could as "Han Chinese" to promote conformity, and now push to separate the tribe from others.
I know what the US and private vendors do with data...the CCP is populated by very smart Chinese people who do the same...
@Howard, the YouTube shorts I've seen are all clips from longer YouTube videos that are available. Clips from Joe Rogan's shows are common. I don't know if anyone published shorts that are intended to be just shorts. That may all depend on my YouTube subscriptions, though. I don't use TikTok either, but my impression is that the stuff posted there are made to be shorts.
You ROUTINELY delete comments from people you decide you don't like because THEY exercised their free speech on your website.
You are not for free speech at all. Quit your fake preening.
I got the sense that selling to Musk is to further create the suggestion that the forced sell is politically motivated, when that is obvious anyway. Maybe it might set up a better case for a lawsuit to regain control of Tik Tok. Overall, I rather this wasn’t an issue at all. TikTok has little influence over me, because it is not a medium I prefer to use.
I thought the implication was that the app stripped data from users' devices. Other than that, gee, there are a lot of apps out there influencing people. Are they going after all of them?
Could we still see tiktok in a browser?
@Dixcus, "You ROUTINELY delete comments from people you decide you don't like..."
And your point is what? That you dispute Ms. Althouse's blog ownership prerogatives? Or that you see Ms. Althouse as the same thing as the Federal Government, or worse, the CCP?
What makes you think the banks have losses on those loans?
I've watched a lot more tiktok than I should. I t is incredibly addictive. I try to avoid it but when I do I keep watching "just 1 more" until it has sucked up 2-3 hours of my life.
But I don't recall ever seeing anything that looks like Chinese pdopganda
I still think this is facebag, X, Google, NBC et all trying to kill a competitod
John Henry
"And your point is what? That you dispute Ms. Althouse's blog ownership prerogatives?"
I don't delete based on content or viewpoint. I routinely delete a few people who fit my definition of troll — which is that I have determined, based on their established behavior, that they are in bad faith and have the aim of ruining the discourse here.
Has Musk failed to make the repayment on the loans principal and interest? I'd not heard that. Until he does, they are "normal" not "failed" loans.
I suspect that the loans were to Musk, not Twitter. He, not Twitter is probably on the hook for repayment
And you are probably full of shit.
John Henry
"I still think this is facebag, X, Google, NBC et all trying to kill a competitod"
What the second embedded video above to hear the blame laid on Zuckerberg.
And, for the record, I have determined that Dixcus is a troll, and I should be more thorough deleting all of his contributions. That is my intent.
They’ve done a very good job framing it as a free speech issue while deflecting from the collection of information about US citizens by an adversarial foreign government. Worthy of debate, but we’re not having it. Perhaps some of scotus is..
A Musk purchase of TikTok will fail on antitrust grounds.
TikTok would rather shut down than sell.
That tells me everything I need to know.
And even though I don’t put the professor in this category most people are too stupid to understand they are being played by the Chinese Communist Party. The professor just don’t give a rat’s ass cuz she’s old.
She’s not the CCP’s target anyway. She’s just another useful idiot.
Without any actual evidence against TikTok being made available to the public, its opponents are basically arguing, "trust what the CIA is telling us."
Why not revive Vine?
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-x-twitter-debt-financing-banks-2008-financial-crisis-2024-8?op=1
I developed a dirty little Korean cheerleader habit over the summer, but I don’t think my worldview was altered.
The Chinese Communist Party doesn't want to be removed from control of TikTok. They want to keep their access to this wonderful propaganda and data collection system on US citizens. Musk is already in business in China, abiding by Chinese Communist Party rules about Chinese access and Chinese control of his cars' data collection system for Chinese users. Why would the CCP object to having him front their US TikTok operations?
Oh yes let's just listen to anything business insider says.
You know, the publication that 9.1% Bidenflation was actually a GOOD thing!
Mike, can you give me one uniquely harmful example of how the Chinese are trying to manipulate American children with TikTok? I’m not seeing ot
Please give me an example of how the Chinese Communist Party is “playing” me with TikTok. Korean cheerleaders? Cute pet videos? People doing random stupid stuff on skis, skateboards, and bikes?
China is asshoe.
That's because the Hunter Biden, Dianne Feinstein, and Eric Swalwell faction of Congress are literally in bed with Chinese spies. You can recognize this influence when US state media and the propganda outlets use "racism", "xenophobia", "MAGA", or "misinformation" rhetoric.
This is what foreign governments bought in paying "10% for the big guy."
Well, if Elon goes after it he should be reminded that the mafia maxim is you make an offer they can't refuse, not one you can't refuse.
That's the way it seems to me. They never give a satisfactory explanation of what exactly TikTok is doing or how. They only speak in vague generalities and just say it's a dire threat and there are things the public doesn't know. Well why don't we know them?
I don't use TikTok other than watching an occasional video here on Althouse.
I think there should be laws passed that give all of us ownership of our data. Anyone who wants it must get our permission and pay us for it.
This is Joe Rogan a couple years back reading the Tik Tok terms of service and it's insane what is collected from each user. I refuse to install that on my phone.
Rogan LInk
@Oso Negro: The standard playbook is to install device trackers that collect data on everything possible. As possible, they build a dossier of your routine actions, interests (e.g., TikTok views, likes/dislikes), passwords, favored websites, banks, and social contacts, etc. They then cross reference device data with public data (e.g., Whitepages dot com), compare you to others in your demographic group to fill holes with probabilities, and build a mega database.
Personal information can be used for financial manipulation, blackmail, hacking, and holding your data hostage. (See US government Personally-identifiable information or "PII" data rules, and the ease of creating creating classified data by piecing together multiple public sources.) Data can be used to shut down bank accounts, web access, and smartphones for subway trains (see Russia in 2022 following the Ukraine invasion).
There's a very fine line between organized crime and government spy agencies. Their integrity and "playing" of you may change with the wind.
Dixcus is a troll but in this case correct. You reserve your right to moderate what you determine to be off topic. That’s a pretty powerful magic wand…
Very old man here who will miss TikTok. This post is a very small sample of what makes TT so attractive. Establishes a subject matter basis. Brings in supporting evidence. Provides the audience the opportunity to participate (to opine). People definitely show their biases while participating. TT makes it very easy. Barrier to entry is very low. Allows people to make their own decisions. Has grown organically. Covers an infinite amount of subject matter while being curated. What I see is a growing number of people learning about grift and being played by people in power. Dangerous! Hence the ban scheduled Jan 19. How could that date be chosen when there are 364 others to choose from?
Oh My! Poor poor CCP intelligence is being bullied.
Ask yourself ,"What is Althouse trying to accomplish with this bolg?" Now re-read what you just stated.
"I refuse to install that on my phone."
You can use it on your browser.
I don’t do tik tok. Hard no. Tik tok is the devil.
If you want TikTok down because you are worried about propaganda, you are, ironically, expressing a pro-propaganda point of view.
If your problem is all the "data" China has access to, what data are you worried about? It's too nonspecific to justify destroying all the work people have created and shared and all the connections they have made.
All short form social media is the devil. "What have I been looking at for the last hour????" It can be on Reddit, X, TikTok, or a Zuckerberg product, all the same.
Ann Althouse said...
And, for the record, I have determined that Dixcus is a troll, and I should be more thorough deleting all of his contributions. That is my intent.
Thank you.
Does anyone within earshot of you with a device do TiKTok, where device can be their phone, computer…car? Do you do Siri or Alexa or any app TikTok has share arrangements with? If the answer is yes then you do do TikTok…
Thank you Althouse. Dixcus is more than a troll. He/It is an idiot as well.
I’ll say it again — buying a controlling interest in Trump is easily the shrewdest investment Elon Musk ever made.
And, for the record, I have determined that Dixcus is a troll, and I should be more thorough deleting all of his contributions. That is my intent.
I watched an interesting video (not Tik Tok, I don't think, but maybe a Meta short) where Jordan Peterson discussed the three percent of people who are pathological, narcissistic, and a few other attributes. These are your internet trolls. They spew their vitriol for their own hedonistic pleasure and do not care about the community they disrupt.
Althouse blog is not a common carrier. It is a person who invites in friends and like minded people to share ideas and discuss what is interesting to her. She invites us in. If you come in drunk and spewing vitriol and hate, she has the right to have you dismissed from the party. Your free speech is not violated. You can go to Tik Tok or Youtube or the street corner to spew your vile hate. What you can't do is come into Meadehouse and shit on the living room carpet and then complain when you are disinvited.
Dixcus. If you want to be heard start your own fucking blog. Be king of your own castle.
The professionals with insider data experience (i.e., US government spy agencies; also every computer and social media firm) know full well what can be done with data becuase they mess with it all the time. The spy agencies have also been extremely concerned about DJI's drones and their SkyPixel image database. As drones are used by local law enforcement and Joe Blow everywhere, the Chinese can monitor sensitive US locations with ease. They know exactly who owns DJI drones, who uses TikTok, etc. etc. etc.
See my response to Oso Negro a few posts up (8:17 am), for the goal is to build a composite profile of all users and cross-reference data. Some users data is more valuable than other users, and the good ones are like hitting a (information) jackpot in a casino. TikTok has an Althouse activity dossier that's a lot more accurate than the Trump pee dossier.
Recent DJI story:
https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/18/24324702/dji-drone-ban-ndaa-trump
As for Tik Tok and its value, we can't conflate the value that happened to happen on that platform with the platform itself. There are other avenues to present your information that could have given the same result. Maybe there are other people who posted on Youtube that got help, or people who posted on Tik Tok who were ignored.
Social media is becoming (has become?) ubiquitous. Many platforms, more to come. Tik Tok will (probably) eventually go the way of AOL so I am not particularly willing to worry about whether that one platform survives legislation. The broader point, however is who actually gets to decide how we communicate. Matthew may have some points about how US platforms have proven not to be our friends and have kotowed to the government. In some ways our government is trying to manipulate its people. but is is far less direct and controlling as the Chinese state. and the Chinese state has a vested interest in undermining us power.
So on the one hand we have a quasi symbiotic relationship between US platforms and US government, and on the other hand we have the Chinese government directly controlling Tik Tok. A government proven to put itself over the rights of individuals and proven to be antagonistic to US interests. I don't have a problem requiring divestiture of states from programs that have access to American minds. We have proof positive of how easily we can be manipulated. Not everyone, but enough of us to sway culture and politics.
Finally, I agree with someone above. Until we are given rights to our personal data and that tracking has to be opt in, companies with ill intent can steal what we don't wish for them to have and we have only one recourse, to not install the software. Tik Tok is the unfiltered cigarette of social media.
It's not user manipulation that worries me about TikTok. It's the data collection. It's just not a good idea to furnish the Chinese government with real time info on everybody in the world who has the app installed.
I don’t find it credible, without real corroboration and confirmation, that Musk is not making payments on the loans he obtained to buy Twitter/X. This last year, he has been cashing out out $billions$ in stock in his companies. He claims to be the biggest tax payer in the country. Of course, this was caused, to a significant extent, by the DE courts rejecting payouts to him from Tesla, in a case filed by owners of a mere handful of shares, which effectively destroyed one of the big advantages of incorporating in that state. And that case was, no doubt, filed in retaliation to his purchase of Twitter/X. He first tried to make payments on those loans with money from Tesla, and when that failed, thanks to that lawsuit, he sold stock in his companies. He has plenty more where that came from, with the money he spent for Twitter/X being less than a roughly (rapidly diminishing) 20% of his total wealth.
And I haven’t seen any real evidence that he has, yet, really lost money on his purchase of Twitter/X. Of course, the left, wants him to have done so - like Bezos has for WaPo (~$100 million loss last year). What he did there was a classic Venture/Vulture Capitalist play (like how Mitt Romney made his money) by buying the company, cutting nonessential personnel (the censors), while retaining the essential personnel (the coders) and losing less revenue than the costs he saved. He probably cut maybe half of the company’s headcount, and with their overhead, cut total expenses by a significant amount, and Twitter/X seems more ubiquitous than ever. Many of those who quit out of protest are even back. Of course, maybe the biggest Twitter/X publisher of anyone in the world, is probably Musk, himself. But who can blame him? The revenue from his Tweats just goes to his bottom line.
Just because you have money to throw around doesn't mean you have money to throw away.
How do you make a small fortune on the internet? Start with a large fortune.
It's not about the content. It's about data collection.
That said, it's often been noted that while TikTok is silly garbage here, it's instructional and educational in China. I don't know how true that is, but if I were trying to bring down a superpower it's a strategy I'd consider.
It’s her blog. Deal with it. Many of us here have had to tweak our commenting to conform to her rules, over the years.
Oh yeah that makes sense. But still one would imagine that YouTube shorts could be used exactly like tick tock. Maybe Google is behind the ban.
I absolutely believe China is using Tik-Tok to intentionally influence people. While I won't say I'm completely fine with it, I do accept it as part of what happens in any free society. People and entities will say their piece to try and influence those around them. It is how free societies work. There is no way to shut it down for some groups without overall harming the existentially important societal value of free speech. I will say that what I consider a plus is that China is getting a taste of their own medicine when it comes to governmental strong-arm economic coercion and IP theft, they've been doing for the past couple generations.
“ This is what foreign governments bought in paying "10% for the big guy."”
Well, to be fair, the 10% was just gravy. By the age that he was selling influence to the ChiComs and Ukrainians, most of us are already moving assets to our kids as fast as we can, to avoid estate taxes.
I will say that Trump trying to position himself as doing something to ensure that Tik-Tok stays up probably helps him with the Youth a bit. It at least mitigates some potential harm. It was Biden who spearheaded the actual bill to force China's divestiture of Tik-Tok (with strong bipartisan support.) To most people under 40 shutting down Tik-Tok unless it is sold feels wild.
I don't have the knowledge or the interest to have an opinion about TikTok. But if Musk buys it then we're in "if there's smoke there's fire" or "follow the money" territory. Also, wouldn't there be an anti trust issue if Musk owned both X and Tik Tok?
While it was a joke between Musk and Trump, I don’t see him buying Tik-Tok. Of course, there are Antitrust implications, that Trump/Bondi would have to deal with. But I just don’t see the synergy being worth the effort. Other video platforms, such as UTube, appear to fit better.
Hear, Hear!
Plenty of competition already exists.
"If your problem is all the "data" China has access to, what data are you worried about?"
Is this the 'frog in the pot' problem? We've become accustomed to having our data stripped, dissembled, packaged, and sold, all since the advent of social media. It's like the steadily increasing traffic noise in a growing city.
In the past 4 months I've been notified of 4 data breaches by companies I've never heard of, 2 of them medical and personal data. They're offering me a free Experian credit-watching service for a year, oh Boy ! Remember Experian, the biggest leaky sieve of them all?
Now we get to choose whether Communist China's Army of IT warriors is added to the list, or eliminated from the Tik Tok corner of it. Personally, I don't like data mining and it's a dislike strong enough to keep me off most social media. But it's not enough to keep my data private, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that's had mine hacked, packaged, and sold off on the dark web.
The thing is, all of these are companies or criminals. There are protections for these under law, and the law has meaning because they are small compared to government. China: Not so much. They are a free agent in this battlefield, and they have a trained IT army.
Between 2013 to 2015 the US Office of Personnel Management (OPM) allowed Chinese hackers to access the data records for 4 million people with security clearances. Ironically, the "government staffing authority" OPM didn't have a clue until a software vendor came to demonstrate their anti-hacking software...and found that OPM's systems were already compromised.
China has not changed. Using TikTok or a DJI drone isn't hacking, rather, one gives data to China voluntarily. The world is not filled with kind and fair people.
https://www.opm.gov/news/releases/2015/06/opm-to-notify-employees-of-cybersecurity-incident/
https://www.csoonline.com/article/566509/the-opm-hack-explained-bad-security-practices-meet-chinas-captain-america.html
Purely personal, and admittedly unfair - I oppose any forced sale or restrictions on TikTok, but what I perceive as the undiluted whininess of the man in the second clip almost has me reconsidering.
Howard, the problem with TikTok is the CCP can make any video they want go viral. They want videos that are destructive to American culture to go viral. I would include Marxist propaganda, mental instability to youth, trans affections for children. Although Google‘s algorithm is not something I would care for, I don’t think their goal is the demise of the United States.
Not following you on this. You can "observe the videos" (tiny little things that they are) in a browser, although they only use about 40% of the the screen. But I think Althouse is a bit confused about the idea behind this bill. Which is certainly understandable, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's not that the Chikes are displaying tiny little, almost invisible, Chike propaganda movies. They could do that better on YouTube, and you could actually see the things. It's that they hoover up all your precious vital bodily data, and pack it off to Chikia. Of course, YouTube also hoovers, and packs, but to non-Chikic places like Google, where everyone loves Americans and would not think of using those data for malign purposes. At least, I think that's it. The whole thing is kind of absurd, as if passing a law against calling yourself "The Mafia" will eliminate organized crime.
BI has a paywall up, so I can't read the article. But if Musk misled his bankers, someone needs to notify Tish James. She is like a mad dog when people mislead their bankers.
Yes, I don't do TikTok but am quite guilty of wasting an hour or so on short form videos from YouTube or Facebook. How did it get to be so late, I wonder afterward.
I watched the second clip in its entirety and I thought there was a lot of potential for allyship. I'm assuming the man is some type of Left-wing, but he seems to value free speech very much and avoiding Governmental control of expressing ideas. While he didn't call it by the name, the way he talked about congress sounded an awful lot like The Swamp to me.
This is very interesting — actually buying TikTok in the US and having a separate tab for it in X would make a lot of business sense (and also for users as video reels could be ignored). It also could make selling advertising on the X-feed tab much more effective. The market would be cornered between X, Meta and Google.
Tic Toc could pose two problems:
1. Steal your data and hack you.
2. Poison the minds of the stupid and the immature against some interest, probably the us government’s interest.
Regarding 1. If banks and gov agencies have been hacked, what am I worried about, they will get me thru them. I still use a vpn and antivirus, and only do online banking on a desktop not used for social media. So I don’t see that looking at tic tok on my iPad is going to hurt me. If I was in the cia I might care more.
2. Trump won, against China’s interest, so tic tok is not a very good mind control machine. I don’t believe propaganda is that powerful if there is alternative media. I assume if China attacks Taiwan people will see them as bad, no matter what tic tok or the new Tokyo rose says. If not we are screwed anyway.
Could any TikTok users let me know what sort of advertising you see on the platform. There is none in the videos Althouse posts so I'm wondering how they make money.
It's a curious case. I have my doubts that China is benefitting in some nefarious way that their smart appliances haven't already achieved.
Want to improve American education exponentially? Restrict TikTok content in the US to what the CCP allows it to display in China (in English, of course). Same subject matter but, hopefully, as politically neutral as the subjects displayed (math, physics, etc., etc., etc.). Won't happen, of course, but one can dream.
it's amazing what our leaders put up with from China, from moving hundreds of thousands of jobs to China, to running police stations in our major cities assigned to surveil and harass Chinese expats.
Maybe we'll wake up when they kick us out of the Pacific after building the world's-best navy with the billions we've surrendered to them in lost manufacturing and most-favored-nation status.
Don't move to Hawaii.
There is a bit of missing the point here. Yes there is manipulation. But the big problem is Tiktok hoovering up personal information and sending it to the CCP. Not that happy about Google hoovering up info either, but is less bad.
I have some opinions on what might explain our friend Dixcus and offer them here in no particular order:
1. He's fucked in the head and has ulterior motives of which trolling is just one possibility.
2. He's fucked in the head and is simply looking for attention. Like this.
3. He's fucked in the head and his almost daily recitation of thinly veiled homicidal ideations is a reflection of actual homicidal tendencies and the motherfucker is dangerous.
An interesting thing about Dix is that he writes well for a potential lunatic. The grammar is solid, he makes his points in a clear, concise manner, and he skillfully avoids making a "true threat" when he calls for the murder of someone or other of whom he claims to disapprove.
The Unabomber could write a little too.
TikTok is a demoralization weapon in China used to track and deny Chinese people of not just free speech but many freedoms. Here, it’s all puppies and kittens and a whole bunch of pro-CCP aimed at children.
Is that OK? I don’t know. I do know a demoralization campaign when I see one. Get on the right set of recommended videos and it gets pretty coercive towards young and naive people.
Is it OK to say that a tool used to suppress the free speech of Chinese nationals both in China and living here is OK because it’s purportedly not suppressing other people’s free speech?
And by free speech I mean speech that won’t get you in trouble as they watch you. Not you as an American citizen, but certainly Chinese nationals.
We have similar CIA run programs promoting our values in the guise of reporting and probably social media now too. All countries that can have these types of things.
I actually don’t know what I think of this, but it’s not a simple free speech issue. It’s a platform-use issue. A bit above my pay grade, but I know something about how these things used to be used to manipulate people. Benign is always the face of the thing.
Here's what I never understood when Musk bought Twitter, and I don't get with the discussion of TikTok either: He spend an enormous amount to buy the existing platform, and an unknown amount to make changes afterward. Presumably TikTok would cost at least as much if he decided to purchase it. Why not spend the same money (or potentially less) to build a new social-media platform from scratch, with whatever changes might be needed built in from the start? I mean, anyone with enough start-up capital could do this -- and it's not as if Musk lacks experience building tech companies.
Would it be that difficult to get users to migrate over from the app they're accustomed to using? (I suppose marketing would be another expense, but it already is.) You would have to convince both users and content creators to move to the new app at the same time -- but given both the controversies about TikTok and the questions about its legal future in the U.S., it might not be that hard. (Especially if there were guaranteed personal-privacy protections that would make it seem like a wiser choice.)
I suppose there might be something about the seemingly addictive TikTok algorithm that would be impossible to replicate. But even if that's the case, a new app could draw more public goodwill by promising that it will push only content that it thinks you want to see, rather than what the company itself wants you to see. (Whether it could actually guarantee that is another question.)
Musk inherited an audience of important media and thought-influencers by purchasing and liberating twitter. He stopped speech suppression.
And in doing so, he has re-ignited the crucial issue of Pakistani-on-white British girl grooming, horrific gang rape, pimping, torture, and murder. Hundreds of thousands of young victims, if not more. He has broadcast to the largest audience (Mark Steyn did the groundwork years ago) that Britain has weaponized its police against free speech — that citizens are thrown in prison for even criticizing or exposing these incalculably destructive crimes — and the incalculable betrayal by elected officials and police of the victims and every silenced citizen.
He is offering an object lesson in how lack of free speech leads directly to totalitarian government control.
Who’s to say he wouldn’t do the same for CCP dissidents by purchasing TicToc?
And after all, as with this blog, aren’t we talking about a platform here, not pure free speech?
https://youtu.be/ObSDF-PprYc
This guy makes some good points.
When it's not obvious how a venture is making its money, then probabilities start to favor 'you' being the product that is the source of revenue.
Not an expert, but one sticking point that I've seen mentioned is the 'algorithm' that controls suggested content. A lot of thought goes into constructing these, and I would hazard a guess that developers have estimated the cost of replicating it and factored that in. China has refused to cede any access to the algorithm, is what I've read. There's a reason for this, and I don't credit any good will to it. The ones that are complaining the most, are the ones that use it the most. It's not a free speech issue, it's a free access issue. 'The brats are squalling that the parents are taking the toy away,' is what a cynic would say. Anybody that puts content onto TikTok doesn't own it - there's a reason it's free. If they were clever, they would be saving it separately and uploading it wherever they are inspired to - but I say this knowing nothing of how TikTok content is loaded.
I don’t think Musk has the kind of spare change needed to buy TickTock.
This debate suffers from the poorly developed factual record. Is TT is an actual or potential tool of CCP subversion and/or spying? I tend to think so. If that's true, it needs new ownership. If it's not, of course it should be left alone.
Oso I can give you 1 example.
When all the nutcase young people were reading parts of a letter that Osama bin Laden wrote about the US and all their comments were to the effect of “well he made some really good points”. That was promoted and promoted.
And THAT’S how begin to make good little communists.
I agree.
Paminwi, do we believe that was initiated by the Chinese? Our young people have demonstrated good capacity for unsound choice, e.g. Free Palestine
Enigma - is use of device trackers unique to the Chinese government?
Enigma - Let's assume what you are saying is correct in its entirety. The Red Chinese now know everything about me. What, exactly, will they do with that information? Let's also assume the US Government has equal information. From which government am I at greater personal risk? What endgame do the nefarious Chinese have planned?
Not at all. However, the west has turned over a huge percentage of computer hardware manufacturing and the tech supply chain to hyper capable and hyper aggressive China. See smartphones, routers, drones, and all sorts of consumer electronics, and this makes China a distinct and special threat.
You may survive just fine watching your Korean cheerleaders, cute pet videos, and ski, skateboard, or bike videos INSIDE THE MOUTH OF A VENOMOUS VIPER. You'll be just fine. Take two bites and call me in the morning.
Russian PCs? Anyone want to buy a VladOSoft PC? Anyone? Anyone?
I see no advertising except for the occasional lewd woman trying to lure me to her instagram and OF
@Oso Negro: See what I said above. Knowledge is power. They can potentially screw you financially at any moment. Full identity theft. Remember that fingerprint sensor you have? Remember that smartphone camera you use to log on? As with the $6 Million Dollar Man, they can now rebuild you (your online identity). They can collaborate with hacker gangs to lock every one of your affected devices and demand a ransom.
Beyond you, should a genuine information war erupt, they might kill every device they can. Sudden info blackout. No navigation, no chat, no bank accounts, no phone, no more TikTok videos at all! Millions starve.
If I agree with China that it's economic bullying and plundering, is it because of all the TikTok I've looked at — all that supposed manipulation?
Who cares? The CCP has been engaging in "economic bullying and plundering" of Western, including US, companies for decades. Turn about is fair play.
But the U.S. government has been attempting to manipulate me into thinking it's protecting me from manipulation by a foreign adversary. My position is that I will hear all the manipulations and make up my own mind.
The CCP does not have free speech rights in the US. The TikTok lawyer claimed in front of SCOTUS that the algorithm for picking what to promote was 1: Speech, 2: owned and controlled by ByteDance
So the US gov't has every legal, moral, and ethical right to stomp all over it
Kill it
It's paywalled, but you can just save the fire then open it.
The debt has also eaten into bankers' pay, with some M&A bankers seeing compensation reduced by 40% in 2023 compared to the prior year, largely because of loans stuck on balance sheets, the largest of which by far was for Musk's Twitter takeover.
This is bullshit. Because even if EVERYTHING they claimed is true, the fact that it's the biggest loan doesn't mean it's the majority of the $$$ (one loan for 2X, 6 loans for X. The loan for 2X is the "biggest", but it's 1/4 the total $$$)
Musk's loans have been bringing in some cash for lenders through large interest payments, the report said.
So, all the whining is bullshit.
Banks could recoup the total value of the debt if X is able to pay back the principal on the loans when they mature. Lenders, though, are expecting to incur a sum $2 billion loss, people familiar with the matter told the Journal in a separate report.
Ohh! "people familiar with the matter told the Journal", none of whom the Journal will name, because it's all lies.
So, are you an idiot, or just a lying hack?
I'd be more concerned what the US Gov't might do with my data. Nobody in China is gonna debank me over my political views, and Xi doesn't consider me “the most dangerous terrorist threat to our homeland.” That would be Joe Biden and Lloyd Austin.
For decades, the Soviet Union circumvented restrictions on their ability to spy and propagandize in the US by recruiting American communist sympathizers to publish communist messages and to insinuate themselves into positions of power and influence. It was mostly unsubtle. Still, the residue of that is all around us. Let the Chinese do the same. Sell TT to Alex Soros, or Laurene Jobs, or some other rich fool.
can someone compare Alinsky tactics to TikTok tactics for manipulating opinion , gain dominate etc?
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