Katherine Kendall, 36, was one of the women interviewed by Lila Shapiro for the New York magazine story.... In an interview with The Times, Kendall described the “culture of secrecy” around Gaiman. “Neil’s works were his bait, and promotional events were his hunting ground,” she said. “As long as his publishers and professional collaborators remain silent, Neil will continue to have unrestricted access to vulnerable women.”
From Gaiman's statement:
I went back to read the messages I exchanged with the women... These messages read now as they did when I received them – of two people enjoying entirely consensual sexual relationships and wanting to see one another again.... And I also realise, looking through them, years later, that I could have and should have done so much better. I was emotionally unavailable while being sexually available, self-focused and not as thoughtful as I could or should have been....
Like most of us, I’m learning, and I'm trying to do the work needed....
Do the work! I don't think the kind of people who have popularized the phrase "do the work" will accept this kind of bailing out:
At the same time, as I reflect on my past – and as I re-review everything that actually happened as opposed to what is being alleged – I don't accept there was any abuse. To repeat, I have never engaged in non-consensual sexual activity with anyone.
He's trying to preserve his literary career and fend off lawsuits. He's willing to say he'll "do the work" with respect to becoming a better person going forward, but when it comes to the past, he wants to be accepted as merely a jerk and never a rapist.
71 comments:
I once was a believe women type man, but have become so skeptical (and cynical) of women who make public accusations of long ago abuse by a famous man.
It's all gossip. If you truly have a case, take it to the DA.
Not one iota of difference from a rock and roller. Their music and stage show are the bait and their shows are the hunting grounds. The Beatles - by way of example - were past masters at that gambit from the age of 14 on... Paraphrased quote from Sir Paul himself: "We did in part to pull the birds."
Guy looks just like Severus Snape, without the warmth.
You see, Trump was telling the truth. If you’re famous, women will let you grab them by the pussy. In fact, a lineup of women will form hoping that you’ll grab them by the pussy. I experienced that during a brief period of fame as a rocker in the NE decades ago. In the clubs and bars, there was always a woman or two offering a blow job in the bathroom. Of course, I was older then (about 35) and I knew the score. I knew that the women would boomerang into a accusations of abuse, so I declined them.
Didn't they already try this with Gaiman? He asked a woman living on his property for free for sex as payment. How dare he!
The shows aren’t bait, and it’s not about hunting. Everybody involved, male and female, is there to get laid. The problem is that the female psyche doesn’t accept responsibility, and quickly falls into regret, anger and resentment over the reality that it was just a casual blow job in the dressing room.
I mean she was forced to do it. There's no way she could just move!
The article's been archived if anyone wants to read it. I couldn't get past the ex-wife, Palmer, and her abuse of her young fan/friend.
They aren’t all a vulnerable community. So many groupies are there for the thill of being close to the fame. Very close. There was an otherwise normal woman in my orbit that collected married PGA tour pros. Not exactly part of a vulnerable community.
It isn’t hard to imagine so many of these after the fact incidents are driven by later regret…or politics.
Starfucking gone wrong.
"I'm trying to do the work . . ." Unmistakable flashing neon sign, reading "Bullshit artist ahead!"
Never heard of this person nor recognize his work. I find it interesting that a guy writes a book, and it is called bait. I suppose that is true of all writing. It exists hoping someone will come by, read it, and want more of it. Except New York Magazine wants us to believe Gaiman’s work is like catnip to a woman. Take that bait, and you lose all agency to control yourself while he preys on your flesh. Now that is a work of fantasy.
Antifa, BLM, Occupy, and other national incursions. Casting couches, sanctuary cities/clinics, neighbors and friends with "benefits", grooming gangsters, taking a knee for her progress, boys with adoptive couplets, trans/neo-gender therapy for underage boys and girls, women who fantasize about rape... rape-rape h/t Carroll.
These stories always remind me of Trump's (in)famous comment, “When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
Yeah, speaking of "vulnerable"... the star is vulnerable.
Lawrence Sterne in his 18th Century work, A Sentimental Journey, wrote about meeting the famous author of a very well loved religious hymn, and what a horrid person that author turned out to be. Sterne was disappointed that his reverence for the work was not matched by an author personally worth such reverence, too. Never conflate or confuse the artistic work with the artist.
That said, groupies have been groupies since forever. Gladiators had side gigs as gigolos, studs to wealthy Roman women. My appeal to women in college was much greater as a grad student than as an undergrad. Not that I ever achieved or deserved any status comparable to Sergius, the gladiator famous for his affair with a Roman Senator's wife. Any bit of status is appealing to women, and always has been.
When you're a famous fantasy author, women will let you do all kinds of things: hug them, kiss them, grab them by the pussy...
Yep. Translations:
"Bait" = women gravitate to fame and power as groupies or join harems
"Vulnerable" = passive women who regret their own decisions project onto men
See the "nuts and sluts" legal defense.
As a young teen, I wrote a couple of letters to Robert Heinlein, asking questions about some of his books. I received two responses: the first a form letter with checkboxes addressing the most common reader questions, the second typed but personal and signed by his wife Virginia (my hero). I kept both for years. Then I grew up, realized that I would never be friends with the Heinleins, and got rid of them.
A much more important question: when did hot girls become nerds?
In ny day, Trek conventions, GenCon, etc, were basically incel rallies.
When did girls start liking this stuff, and why want I informed?
JSM
Maybe some of these guys can say they had no idea how consensual it was; any resistance was somewhat minimal, and in any case they didn't really care. Orgasms can be faked, a lot of things can be faked, at some point it's full steam ahead for one's own pleasure. "Doing the work" seems to mean being less selfish, more aware of the other person: what are you actually thinking and feeling? Will this make sex more rare, but more satisfying for one or both when it happens? SNL had two female stars singing they love Santa because "he knows when I'm asleep"--I guess meaning he won't wake up a partner for sex.
I read Gaiman's response on FandomPulse and the whole things sounds like it was written by a woman. I mean seriously, the whole thing is a tl:dr of "growing as a person" and "work needing to be done" and "caught up in my own story" and "emotional availability" when a paragraph - if he was innocent of course - would've sufficed.
But he doesn't look innocent, and he doesn't sound innocent either, as all #believeallwomen proponents usually do.
Hyper-feminine phraseology and word choice. Yep, he's a scumbag.
Lol.
I remember many many many years ago when true nerds would object to hot women coming to Sci-Fi/Comic conventions dressed up as characters from Sci-Fi/Fantasy (called cos-play) because they weren't "true fans", meaning that the hot women weren't well-versed in the lore of the characters and just wanted to dress up in skimpy outfits. Not only were they Incel conventions, the incels wanted them to stay that way.
The fact that there are a number of allegations lends credence to them. It would be surprising if his libido didn't bleed over into his professional life as well as to his novels, and the process probably worked in reverse. If hordes of young, attractive women suddenly flocked around me and looked up to me as a demigod, I'm pretty sure that it would have a profound effect on my libido. He doesn't appear to be the kind of guy who was a chick magnet back in high school. Perhaps the fame threw his moral compass off line.
I find Gaiman's work boring and mediocre, but that never stopped it from being popular. Anyway, he's obviously used his position as a celebrity to prey upon those silly enough to think his invitation for a "quiet dinner" or a "coffee in his hotel room" were just friendly gestures.
He's a sex pest, but because Gaiman is "Protected" for some reason, he gets this favorable write up. BTW, people have been discussing his sexual abuse for over 1 year online, but only now does it reach the MSM. I believe most of the woman in these "metoo" incidents because they all seem to be true.
SF authors are known for their sexual weirdness and abuse. Asimov groped every woman he could get his hands on. Arthur Clarke was into little boys. Other more current SF authors, have been charged with liking Child porn, and underage boys/girls.
Ethan Hawke said in "Dark Ray of Sunshine" that fiction was evil. He said this because fans came up to him and believed that he was that character in some movie that he had made as a young man, and had been genuinely worried about him.
I think that John and Paul wrote "I Fancy My Chances With You" as teenagers.
How does the cancel thing work? I haven't read any of his books, but I saw the Tim Burton movie, "Coraline". It was pretty good. Are we supposed to avoid the movie as well as the book?......Wagner was a flaming anti-Semite. The Ring cycle has a character who's extremely evil and is supposed to represent Jewish sensibility. The Ring is one of the seminal works of our culture. It's the progenitor of Stars Wars and LOTR......How much of this writer are we supposed to cancel or should we cancel him at all?
when did hot girls become nerds?
He's not Tolkien. There's a lot in his work that is female-coded. In the Sandman series, Death is a girlboss, and Delirium is a riot grrl. There's a misunderstood witch and a suffering transwoman. A mother sets the Furies loose on a male character while trying to protect her child. Several other female protagonists.
By "favorable write up" I mean the NYT's "Neil Gaiman responds.." you see there are those out there who have "pounced" on Gaiman and the NYT's is here to give us his side of the story. Heaven forbid, the NYT's should actually investigate and give us a neutral objective story answering the questions of Gaiman's sex abuse. Instead, most of it reads like a Gaiman PR handout.
I assume therefore, Gaiman must be a leftist and writes the sort of books the NYT's likes. And if Gaiman has connections to other powerful people in the publishing world or Entertainment "Industry" I wouldn't be shocked.
Like almost everything, SF started out as a male thing. It attracted a lot of nerds, and a lot of men/boys who wanted fantasy about green martian women with 3 breasts. A lot of SF authors who could write edgy things and not get called a communist, because it was "Fantasy" or thought "childish".
Now, based on the Hugo awards and the best seller lists, its female dominated and most of the stories are directed at them. Mostly thinly disguised romance or "You go Girl" stories. The days of "Dune" or "Lord of the Rings" are long gone.
I despise these sorts of stories. People are complicated. A unchaste man enjoying the women who offer to fornicate is ultimately a spiritual problem, not a legal problem. Envy and gossip go hand-in-hand. Bleh.
Wow, a real 'swing of the pendulum' vibe going on here. Having read a bit of the Vulture story, not what I expected.
I wonder what effect this will have on Gaiman's book sales? No "publicity is bad" and all that.
will it work? in USofA? in Rotherham? in Europe?
12ft.io will often get past a paywall. I have read and liked Gaiman. The complaining women all sound psychotic and as is the norm in this kind of thing waited way too long to say anything. Gaiman should be smart enough to know how cringing celebrity apologies (do not) work. He should have just said, "It was all consensual, go f off."
I am not sure this has been thought through quite enough: "The fact that there are a number of allegations lends credence to them." I expect vindictive enemies can manufacture as many allegations as necessary. I reckon "credible" accusations, backed up with, maybe, facts and evidence might be a preferable standard for belief.
Never read anything by him. Know the name- Voxday has been writing about him for a while. Nothing good, by the way. Apparently known as a predator for a while. But from reading the comments- seems the complaints were after the fact regrets....
But women- at least some of them- demonstrate they want to be fooled. Recent headline- and a link:
French Woman Convinced She Was Dating Brad Pitt Divorces Millionaire Husband, Sent Scammer Thousands for 'Cancer' Treatment
Really? She fell for that? That hard? She wanted to be fooled.
https://www.latintimes.com/french-woman-convinced-she-was-dating-brad-pitt-divorces-millionaire-husband-sent-scammer-572064
Shrug. I'll wait for something more substantial. It isn't as if sexual hanky panky hasn't been going on at conventions since forever. Heck, anytime men and women get together, "things" happen. Parties, conventions, concerts, bars. In any case, musicians, athletes, and actors have more success than writers, Babe Ruth was legendary. Gaimen probably doesn't rank that high among offenders.
As for Gaimen the writer, I found him boring. Until I learn more, that is the only crime I will pin on him.
I only know of Gaiman through the TV shows Lucifer and Good Omens both of which I loved for the most part. Not buying the accusations.
My wife and I read some of his books, and watched "Good Omens" (which was very funny until the end-twist), and I recently noticed that he was being accused of having too much sex.
Personally, I couldn't care less about his or any other guy's sexcapades, and wonder that anyone does.
He does seem to be a media personality in a way that other writers today aren't. I haven't seen George RR Martin on TV and don't want to. JK Rowling isn't on TV much either. Stephen King is hiding out up in Maine. As for "serious," non-genre writers, they lost their last outlet to the mass public when Charlie Rose got me-too'ed.
This is not a new thing. Look up "Hollywood casting couch," and then review the Harvey Weinstein allegations.
A man and a woman left alone together with natural chemistry will often go there.
I am aghast! You expect that kind of behavior from the president of the United States, but I would expect better from a comic book writer.
At the commencement of the boxing match, the referee instructs the boxers, "protect yourself in the ring at all times". More people need to follow that advice in their lives.
For much of my life I lacked self-confidence and just couldn't believe it when beautiful women would throw themselves at me. Now, a number of things have changed, one being that women are now throwing themselves at me all the time. Best to listen to Thomas. He knows of what he speaks.
Let me ask: what does it mean when a woman stares at your eyes then looks directly at your crotch? Then walks by and pulls up her shirt so you can see her ass? The black players in my town say that whatever it means, always flush the condom.
It's been known in fantasy-lit circles for a number of years that Gaiman is abusive, and it was also known that he was somehow "protected," either by hiring reputation-management people or because of his Scientology connections. The full nature of that protection--and the number of people threatened, manipulated, paid-off, etc.-- still hasn't come out, but perhaps it will now.
In any event, a lot of the comments above aren't really right. Absolutely there are writers who hook up with young women at Cons, and absolutely a lot of the young women at Cons are seeking that. But the women coming forward in this case notably aren't opportunistic predators, and they're not groupies with regrets over a one-night stand that was disappointing. Some of them already had settlements or large payments, and they're not likely to get more by doing this; financially they would have been better off asking to be paid to stay quiet. These particular women were manipulated, threatened financially, emotionally, and in multiple cases physically. They were abused, and Gaiman should be held accountable for that.
Notice how in his "response" he employs the PR-speak trick of answering different questions than the ones being asked, and in what I think is close to a 100% indicator of guilt, he employs the "I'm not a perfect person" deflection. (n.b.: no one had any illusions that you were perfect, and furthermore "not raping people" is not some impossible standard that only perfect people can be expected to achieve).
Gaiman is another data-point supporting my hypothesis that men who make a big deal of declaring publicly that they are "feminists" are more likely than not to be secret abusers. It seems that the more a man publicly declares how much he loves and admires and supports women in the abstract, the more likely he is to mistreat actual individual women.
The progenitor of Star Wars is Dune, the novel. "Paul, I am your uncle." The progenitor of Dune was the historical work, The Sabres of Paradise. Therefore Star Wars could be titled "The Light Sabres of Paradise" and not lose much by it and gain a kind of richness. And yes, the "Rebel Alliance" are based on Muslim warriors we might call terrorists today, as seen through the fictional lens of Dune. If you have read Dune, you owe it to yourself to at least look at The Sabres of Paradise. It's such a ripoff it's embarrassing, right down to the historical snippets at the head of each chapter and lines about the honor of fighting with an edge weapon, that are taken right from the historical work. That's why I find it so funny when people talk about Frank Herbert's ambivalence about his hero, you mean the one he stole from another book, the actual person? Imam Shamyl? Star Wars bleached him white.
This short comic strip by the amazing Scott McCloud, entitled "Why I'm Not Neil Gaiman", was hilarious when I read it back in 2001. It seems a bit darker now, perhaps. At least it corroborates some things.
Since around the 1960s, the Science Fiction/Fantasy genre has usually had one writer/editor type in particular who was their "ambassador" to the "mundane" world. Someone to explain these strange creatures (SF fans), argue for the value of SF as literature, recommend authors or works of particular excellence to the more open minded readers comfortable on the boundary of SF and mainstream fiction. The person the "serious" newspapers would talk to if they needed a quote or something. And they were generally revered by the SF reader community. It was almost an apostolic succession: Isaac Asimov (or maybe Ray Bradbury)->Harlan Ellison-> Ursula K LeGuin->Neil Gaiman. At this point in the 21st century, SF, in a somewhat diluted form, has overrun mainstream culture to such an extent that the position is, perhaps, obsolete.
interesting how many are still in the "Well, they asked for it" mode. I thought that went away years ago, but then remember Bill Clinton. Underage sex is wrong. Sexual abuse and unwanted sexual touching is wrong. It doesn't matter if they were "groupies".
And I find Gaiman's behavior weird and similar to Louis CK, the singer for P/P/Mary, and Harvey weinstein. It seems Giaman was into getting naked in a bath and having the girl pleasure him. Why this thing about beating off in front of women. Or them giving you a handjob. Bizarre.
"The person the "serious" newspapers would talk to if they needed a quote or something."
Yeah, you're right. And it always seems to be somebody with connections to Hollywood/TV - with the right politics. I wonder how many reporters/Editors actually read books. I think they just look at TV/Movies and read magazines.
George RR Martin doesn't seem to have any groupies. Maybe even groupies have standards. Are maybe given his fondness of writing about rape, they are scared off.
Men do not need to be emotionally invested to have sex that is satisfactory from ther own perspective. The biddies of the feminist movement imagine that they can overturn millions of years of evolution through public shaming and false charges of rape. They are wasting their time, but it is, after all, their time to waste. Better would be to educate young women about the real world, but perhaps from the perspective of modern feminists that’s even less likely to be successful.
Believe no women without evidence. Women lie, most of them as an automatic reflex.
Well, I had a comment on this, but I think I used a couple of words and phrases that may have gotten the comment flagged. The gist of it was, I wouldn't be surprised if the people complaining signed a form listing the exact sort of behavior they would have allowed because that has been a common thing in the "scene" for more than 20 years now.
"One of these women, Scarlett Pavlovich, was 22 when she first met Gaiman’s ex-wife, Amanda Palmer, in New Zealand. They struck up a friendship before Palmer asked Pavlovich to help babysit her and Gaiman’s 5-year-old child. Pavlovich said that the first time she met Gaiman, while waiting for the child to finish a playdate, he offered her a bath in a claw-foot tub in his garden. She alleges that he then joined her in the tub naked, asked for her to sit on his lap and sexually assaulted her."
I believe every word of it. Beware of strangers offering baths.
Here's a link to the full article, no paywall
https://archive.ph/O1s0J
The issue with Gaiman is that he didn't just move on to those who would say yes.
Look, I've had time periods where I was quite successful with the women. I sill got a lot of "no"s. Shrug, I respected them, and went on to the next, until I got a "yes". If Gaiman had been willing to do that, this article wouldn't have appeared
Count me as a woman who found Gaiman incredibly sexy. And I was charmed by his mentions of his oldest daughter in his online Journal. I've always admired men with strong family ties. His first divorce troubled me, but in these days....
I have a great love of myth and folk tales. Gaiman's playing around with those themes entranced me. Although Norse Folk Tales was a dead bore, his book about the Frost Giants engages me. I would definitely cosplay Death.
I've read little of his latest troubles, I wonder how much, or if, his aging out of his earlier sex appeal has made him a target. I sorta hate knowing too much about favored writer's personal life.
AKA "The female of the species is more deadly than the male."
-Rudyard Kipling
Not The 🐝: “To Avoid Prosecution In Britain, Neil Gaiman Joins Islamic Grooming Gang”
Rudyard Kipling said…
“The female of the species is more deadly than the male."
Space (a band) agreed…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1NBpVKWh_c
Aggie said…
“Guy looks just like Severus Snape, without the warmth.”
Goth Hans Gruber. Or Goth Steven Spielberg.
I really enjoyed the co-written Good Omens, so I tried Gaimans other works, not impressed. The first season of the TV Good Omens followed the book, loved it.
The second series was written by Gaiman alone, utter formulaic dreck.
Terry Prachett obviously did all the work for Good Omens.
One Terry Prachett is worth everything gaiman ever wrote. But nobody in North America has ever heard of him.
Oh. He was part of "Lucifer?" My wife loves that show. This explains a lot. I gather, Gaiman knows how to "Write for women."
The Kendall bitch complains that "Neil will have unrestricted access to vulnerable women."
Who decides when a woman is vulnerable? Is there a scale?
Sounds to me like Ms Kendall is trying to revive chaperonage, but for adults.
Terry Prachett obviously did all the work for Good Omens.
It's why I gave it a shot, but I still couldn't make it to the end of the book.
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