"He doesn't want to wait around for 7 months till the city hires some demolition contract... $25,000 to do his lot.... You have emergency powers just like I do, and I'm exercising my emergency powers. You have to exercise them.... You have a very powerful emergency power and you can do everything within 24 hours. Yes. And if individuals want to clear out their property, they can."
Said President Trump to L.A. Mayor Karen Bass:Bass, struggling to keep up with Trump's time pressure, ventured: "Well, yes, but you know that you will be able to go back soon.... we think within a week."
7 months wasn't good enough for Trump and neither was a week. He said: "That's a long time away — I'll be honest — to me..... And — the most important thing — a week is a long [time to people who want to go in and clean out their own house]."
Bass interrupted to say that she wanted people to be safe, and Trump cut her off and overpowered her: "They're safe. They're safe. You know what? They're not safe. They're not safe now. They're going to be much safer. A week is actually a long time.... I watched hundreds of people. standing in front of their lots and they're not allowed to go in. It's all burned. It's gone. It's done.... It's not going to burn any more. There's nothing to burn. There's almost nothing to burn. And they want to go in there...."
Bass embodied caution. She articulated the interest in safety, but perhaps she wants to save the work for the contractors who — Trump says — will charge $25,000 for each lot cleared. Trump pictures the homeowners rushing in grabbing armloads of debris and heaving it into dumpsters overnight. But don't you need contractors to deliver and pick up those dumpsters? And won't some of those homeowners — are they the homeowners — injure themselves jumping about in the wreckage? What is the big hurry? But Bass comes across as weak and afraid to take action, while Trump seems commanding and sanguine, ready to unleash the power of the individual citizens who are raring to get in there and transform the landscape overnight. You can do everything within 24 hours.
AND: Here's a longer version of the roundtable event:
Posts
106 comments:
Minor point, but a dumpster delivery and pickup takes about 5 minutes each time - these companies are very efficient. Of course, navigating a destroyed neighborhood won't be easy, and 24 hours to do a cleanup is way optimistic unless most of the damage is inside due to water and smoke. If the structure is down - or mostly down - the owner would be best advised to stay out IMO.
Why can’t people be free to take risks if they want? Why do we need a government that suffocates us with safety? The trill of living is the risks or at least the freedom to take them.
For a counter point, Grim at Grim’s Hall is retired Army officer from Georgia now living in western North Carolina who is a volunteer first responder. Between posts on philosophy and motorcycle riding, he’s been periodically posting on his experiences with Hurricane Helene recovery (the current post today is his thoughts on Trump’s comments regarding FEMA).
He doesn't do topics but he's got the usual Blogger archive so you can scroll back to his posts from 2024 on hurricane recovery. At least in his area, about 99% of the recovery and clearance has been done by local citizens. Virtually nothing by FEMA (IIRC he has seen a few FEMA people but not interacted with any). That said, he lives in a very rural area where people are generally used to not having the kind of services you would find in a large metropolitan.
I'll also throw in my own experience with flood recovery in Iowa in 2008. It devastated a major portion of the downtown and many older residential areas of Cedar Rapids when I was living there. Basically, there's no way you're going to get enough contractors to do the damage clean up on the scale you're looking at. There's no money in it. It's grunt labor and all the owner has at the end is a shell of a building (or in the case of a fire, probably a bare lot). Nobody is going to do it without a contract to also rebuild the place. Also figure all of these people's income streams are probably gone because the businesses they worked for are burned out. They may as well do some of their own clean up. Yes, it isn't going to get done in 24 hours but by city contracting? Won't get done for 24 months.
"Minor point, but a dumpster delivery and pickup takes about 5 minutes each time..."
But you have to arrange for this service and it costs money and if 1,000 homeowners are calling for the same thing at the same time, that's a big logistics problem. It might be better to systematically hire people who can use big equipment and trucks. What is the fastest way? I'm sure Trump can think of more efficient ways to get the clearing done, but here we see him boosting the spirits (and winning the support) of the frustrated homeowners who want to use their own energy to get things done.
"He doesn't do topics but he's got the usual Blogger archive so you can scroll back to his posts from 2024 on hurricane recovery."
I would recommend using the search window in the upper left corner or doing a google search that begins with site:URL — like site:althouse.blogspot.com — and then your search terms.
You don't need the blogger to have used tags or "labels," which is what I think you mean by "topics."
The fundamental difference is this ...
Trump represents people who see government as a way to empower people to execute on the things they want to get done.
Bass represents people who see government as a way to help their friends and punish their enemies.
Point taken. But not every homeowner will want to tackle the job.
Good points all.
I'm picking up a vibe of different mindsets. Mayor Bass is totally locked into government providing the services necessary for this job, and she reaches to justify it with her safety mantra.
The President is coming from the viewpoint that this a property problem, a real property problem to be solved, and government generally just gets in the way of property owners trying to do so.
Is he unrealistic in his desire to get this done ASAP? Probably, at least to a degree. But I'm more in line with his thinking than hers. I'm sure the property owners are too.
On Maui, FEMA, and State, decided that the entire burnt town of Lahaina was toxic soil. So they removed a lot of it. 4 inches, or more. Moved it a few miles to an area called Olawalu, an area close by the ocean. Called it a temporary landfill, until they could decide what to do with it. Millions of square feet of soil and junk. buried, first with a layer of material to keep it from leaching into the ground water, which its doing anyway. and then with a layer of lava rock, cinder. There is no cinder available on the entire island now, they used and are using so much.
They built a construction fence12 feet high, around the entire town. posted guards. you weren't allowed to park above Lahaina town and look.
It took over 2 years. NOT one house is rebuilt. Most can't get permits, which take years.
California is much much worse. The coastal commission shames Mauis permit process. My nephew in Malibu wanted to build a shed- took a year and a half, lawyers fees etc.
So yeah, let FEMA, a bunch of karens, and kens, tell people what they can do or not.
In the end, FEMA spent billions here-they also booked every luxury hotel room at 1500 night.
Lahaina will never be the same. It will end up, with state and federal regs, being an progressives wet dream.
Because safety (think Covid) is one of the highest values to the Dem mind.
You’d be surprised at the number of companies in the dumpster business. I was for Omaha. And many of them have clever names e.g. Bin There Dump That, It’s Got to Go, Waste Away.
Trump is a negotiator, so his starting point is always an extreme. It is unlikely that people could clear their property in 24 hours. But the point is to let people get started, if they want to, and it will happen faster than waiting around for the government to do it or allow it.
The Dems control Hawaii. And the Dem fixation on net zero lead the local utility not to spend money on burying power lines. The utility is in Chapter 11 now. The Dems have a habit of ruining paradises.
Except safety is not number one when it comes to their desires. Think confused children on puberty blockers or life altering surgeries.
Dave- Exactly. California and Hawaii government share the same net zero obsession.
Melania and the Low-Brimmed Hats: a children's book series. Where will they go next!
@Althouse, you need a Fisking.
Bass embodied caution.
No, she embodied the Democrat urge to wrap everything up in red tape and delay, delay, delay.
She articulated the interest in safety, but perhaps she wants to save the work for the contractors who — Trump says — will charge $25,000 for each lot cleared.
Excuse me, Professor, but if Bass actually cared about safety why was the Santa Ynez reservoir empty, why did fire hydrants run out of water, and why were so many fire trucks parked at a repair depot awaiting the funding to get them fixed? No “maybe” about it — she wants contractors who will give her kickbacks, or at the very least future campaign contributions.
Trump pictures the homeowners rushing in grabbing armloads of debris and heaving it into dumpsters overnight. But don't you need contractors to deliver and pick up those dumpsters? And won't some of those homeowners — are they the homeowners — injure themselves jumping about in the wreckage? What is the big hurry?
How about asking the homeowners why they want to hurry back? Or at least try to put yourself in their shoes. Some Will want contractors, some will want to roll up sleeves and get to work, and some want to go back and salvage what they can while they still can.
But Bass comes across as weak and afraid to take action, while Trump seems commanding and sanguine, ready to unleash the power of the individual citizens who are raring to get in there and transform the landscape overnight.
No, Althouse, she comes across as the sort of standard-issue Democrat who wants to command ever-larger armies of bureaucrats. “Paralysis by analysis,” we used to call it.
You can do everything within 24 hours.
You can get started anyway.
Meanwhile, Professor, you might look at the island of Maui. The city of Lahaina burned down in August 2023. The number of homes rebuilt in the intervening 16 months? Three.
The Democrats (and the Left in general) are all about Weaponized Safety.
Some of them probably actually believe it's helpful. Most of them use it to stifle their opponents' free speech, and to protect favored constituencies - everything from unions to DEI trainers.
But more fundamentally, safety is the opposite of dynamism and boldness. Safety literally retards progress. Of course, some safety is required, but today the balance is way out of whack.
"Bass comes across as weak and afraid to take action, while Trump seems commanding and sanguine, "
Bass is acting like a scared petulant little girl
There's a weird moment in Mad Men where Conrad Hilton expresses his profound disappointment with Don Draper's not understanding that Hilton means what he says when he says he wants a hotel on the moon.
@Jimmy, I’ve read that 3 houses have been rebuilt. I presume the owners were wealthy individuals with political connections. Democrat activists proclaim Pacific Islanders as part of their coalition, but I certainly hope the Native Hawaiians are looking at how eager the Democrats are to rebuild Lahaina as an example of how beloved they really are and how respected they are as members of the coalition.
In my opinion Trump is not saying or implying that all the homeowners can get their plots cleared in only 24 hours—which, of course, would be ridiculous—but rather that Bass could promulgate emergency regulations allowing them to do so within 24 hours.
Two were rebuilt in Lahaina area. the third was in Kula, upcountry Maui. The fires in Kula weren't as bad, and rebuilding was faster. the two in Lahaina aren't rebuilt really. One is working on the Ohana cottage. Once finished he will go for the main house. Not sure about the other one. Lots of rules and regs here, like california.
In the last election most voted Democrat. and like california, there is suspicion of voter fraud.
It is a bit more complicated, and it is where an outside agency, with no local, that is, let's assume, corrupt, connections can help (from other states or even federal labs). A rapid test for, say, asbestos, then, led contamination, etc., are needed before they move forward. But yes, someone coming the same day and clearing things up, based on construction date, for example, then next day based on field implement chemical analysis, could be done. Even AI could probably be used to prescreen safe houses to start the process.
What evidence do we have that the $25,000 contractor will be safer than the person clearing out their own home?
We all know the answer to that: none. None whatsoever.
Bass wants you picturing highly trained union men, but what you’ll get is a group of illegals who, 20 minutes before, were standing on a street corner waiting for men in pick-up trucks to come by looking for day workers.
DJT is directionally correct. I don't take 24 hours literally, but more like government needs to get out of the way and let people begin to clean up. Yes, the clean up will be messy and there will be lots of trucks trying to get in, but people have rights to their own property. People get hurt when trying to do home repairs everyday. The LA response seems to be not safety first but safety is the only value. I think DJT understands that allowing the devastation to linger is incredibly demoralizing to people. Enabling people to take part in cleaning up their own property is empowering and valuable. The sooner the better.
Bass is like a lot of politicians, and a lot of senior managers: They don't know much about how things actually get done. It's a huge blank page in their portfolio, and the prospect terrifies them - so they take refuge in safetyism. Nobody moves, nobody gets hurt. On full display, here. Trump is taking an opportunity to highlight the status quo and point out the how and why it should be different, with a smoking ruin in the backdrop.
This is right—govt will make it slower and more expensive. But “safety” is a lie. People get hurt working on their homes every day, but unskilled labor gets hurt on construction sites every day too.
What they need is Jimmy Carter, his tool belt and a bag o’ nails.
Safe? Safety means putting water in a fire hydrant.
Did Karen apply her expertise at cutting sugar cane to the difficulties of rebuilding or was she silently thinking "what would Fidel do, I wish I had his power"?
https://adnamerica.com/en/california/karen-bass-and-cubas-venceremos-brigade-controversial-history-resurfaces-amid-criticism
fohgetaboudit - she's a diversity hire.
Jimmy - The Dems have a lock on Hawaii and it's so sad. They are so stupid.
I think they grow dumb democrats in Hawaii. Must be the soil.
I thought I read (watched on youtube) they decided to move everything to Olawalu temporarily - then on to the main landfill in central Maui?
Bass is using the adage the democrats have followed since the Obama years. "Never let a crisis go to waste!" In this case, delay, delay, delay any self-reliance, any rebuilding, on the premise that the mayor and her crew are keeping everyone "safe". Keep them dependent for 18 more months. Break their spirit ontop of this holocaust Los Angeles just experienced. Don't even imagine you can, "Pick yourself up, dust youself off, and start all over again." If citizens are allowed to take care of their own needs and begin to rebuild on their own they might soon get the idea that they are in charge and not the Bass/Newsome junta that rules them. Right now, a dumptster in Hollywoodland represents freedom from the tyranny of the Woke Democrats that have had their foot on the neck of all Californians.
Take my woird for it. At 250 to 750 dollars a dumpster people will be importing them from Kansas in a matter of days. There will be people welding them up in their garages.
Do what we do here with brush. Neatly stack the debris in the parkway. Maybe seperate the metal from everything else.
My daughters friend from Altadena is chomping at the bit to get into his property.
We don't need a functioning fire dept. We demand angry lesbians and pride flags! Now!
It takes seven months to line up NGOs and cronys to inflate prices so that the max amount of graft can be harvested.
Clean up was something NYC got right after Hurricane Sandy. They dropped large dumpsters on streets when they had them. They let everyone gut their homes, dumping the debris on the streets/curb grass area in front of the house. NYC Sanitation workers would go block by block scooping the debris into trucks and hauling it off. It was a combination of city and private working together. This was under Bloomberg. Sometimes the debris was there for a week or two, but sanitation worked non-stop. Let the homeowners in to access what needs to be done and remove anything salvageable.Those who can't will wait for government, those who can should be allowed to start the process.
That video of Bass - where she in frozen to answering a single question...
I think the Democrat Party insider rule is -- > "you only speak, if you have an approved script."
As Reagan used to say, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’"
In the aftermath of Harvey, we helped friends muck out their houses. We moved debris into piles adjacent to the street so that heavy equipment could come along to fill dump trucks. Every house had its own mountain of gross mushy junk, disintegrating drywall, dead appliances, smelly mud... We worked as fast as we could because mold was growing by the hour. Most houses weren't themselves structurally unsound, but there was ample opportunity to get hurt or to be exposed to toxic materials. Mold may not be as big an issue in LA (at least, in areas where the fire burned itself out rather than being put out), and asbestos/lead exposures would be brief and could be mitigated by recommending (yes) masks, which actually do reduce exposure to particulates even though they're a performative sop with regard to viruses.
So, that's one approach. Another - any dumpster provider could (if they haven't already) implement an online scheduler, both for drop-off and pickup. As others have noted, yes, there would be truck traffic jams, but I'd be willing to let the drivers sort themselves out, get into a rhythm.
No matter what, there will be frustration and a certain amount of risk for whoever does the initial cleanup. But the faster it's done, the better. I don't necessarily believe that Bass is angling for kickbacks - I think it's more likely that she believes she is prioritizing "process" or something like that, and can't envision that a distributed network, so to speak, might work better and faster than a central planning approach.
not every homeowner will want to tackle the job.
True, but every one who does reduces the work that remains.
And as our host points out, the sense of being able do something, of moving forward in any way, is invaluable when it feels as if most of your life has been destroyed.
I demolished a 1200 square foot home on a property I own outside of Chicago. I did it because the house was disgusting (the tenant was an animal hoarder) and because its presence forced me to pay $ 5,000 in property taxes. Because the demo happened during Covid, it was sort of tough to get anybody to do the work. I did the work with my brother. It took us about a week and we used three very large dumpsters to remove the debris. We recycled or donated whatever we could. The insulation occupied too much space, so we put in big plastic bags and threw out with our weekly trash pickup for weeks after the demo.
Anyways, it wasn't an easy job. If you're not in good shape or a little bit slow mentally, you can't do this work. You got to locate and seal water wells. You have to dig up and crush septic tanks. You got to disconnect the electricity and have gas shut off to the property. And you have to deal with obnoxious Village inspectors. Obviously, you mess around and someone is going to get hurt.
I enjoyed seeing Melania effortlessly switching between Slovenian and English too. I'm hoping for her to address a group of Spanish speaking homeowners with "see say pwodway" like Dr Jill.
Glad to see Ric Grennel there on the dais to maintain in-person representation after DJT goes back to DC.
I imagine a lot of people want to sift through the wreckage before the looters do.
"This calls for immediate discussion!" -- Sibling Reg of the People's Front of Judea, dba Karen Bass
During Hurricane harvey, I had a home that was flooded along with most in my neighborhood. Within a week, everyone on the block had soggy furniture, flooring and other debris hauled to the curb and the city was able to pick it up and hauled it it away. Some houses needed to be leveled and these took longer as homeowners needed to call in contractors foor reconstruction. For those that had homeowners flood insurance the reconstruction was covered and took longer. For those of us without flood insurance like me, repairs were on my own dime. My city (Bellaire) requires construction permits which simply means going to the city office and filling out the form and paying the modest filing fee. In two months, I had flooring and sub flooring replaced and new kitchen carpet in place ready to move in. This is the kind of do it yourself that Trump is recommending. The Democrat Mayor of LA should call the Democrat mayor of Houston and ask how it is done.
You got to locate and seal water wells. You have to dig up and crush septic tanks. You got to disconnect the electricity and have gas shut off to the property.
I haven't paid close enough attention to where this question of self-demo vs government demo is taking place, but it strikes me as unlikely that either water wells or septic tanks will be involved, and likely that water mains, electricity, and gas are already shut off to the area.
But of course you're correct that just the mucking out is hard work. What I observed in Houston during Harvey is that those who could, did, and when they were done with their own properties, they did what they could to help their neighbors, as long as their energy held out. And again, whatever individuals manage to do themselves reduces the amount that has to be done by contractors or agencies.
Why not let those who want to handle clean-up themselves get to work now? And let those who want government to handle it wait 7 months and pay $25,000 for the privilege?
Ann, I wasn't sure if you were ventriloquizing Bass or speaking for yourself here: "And won't some of those homeowners — are they the homeowners — injure themselves jumping about in the wreckage? What is the big hurry?"
She/you can't possibly be serious here. What's the big hurry? These people don't have a house to live in! They've lost everything, and they want to get started solving that problem. If nothing else, action is treatment for helplessness and depression in the face of such a disaster. Let them take some measure of control over their lives!
And "jumping about in the wreckage"? Who said anything about jumping?
Might homeowners get hurt? Yes. Homeowners get hurt doing DIY projects ALL THE TIME. That doesn't mean we prohibit them from doing things ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY.
The dynamic isn't Daddy vs. Mommy, but Daddy vs. the Bossy Aunt who always knows better--which is a perfect description of the vibe that Bass radiates.
Dumpsters are not the short term answer. Hauling the trash and debris to the curb can be done in a week by the home owner as it was here during Harvey. Hauling the debris away is a city responsibility and during hurricane Harvey and other recent disasters, it takes the cite about 2 months to clean up the debris hauled to the curb.
I've seen hundreds of videos and news stories of people cleaning up their property and neighborhoods after floods, hurricanes and tornadoes. California, my home state for 75 years, is sick, and high on regulations. They love to regulate - right down to the type of straw in your drink. So, hell no, they're not going to let homeowners clean up their own property.
Dumpster are easy and affordable. You take one, two days of dumpster delivery only. Next day, clean up. Next day, dumpster removal only. Rinse and repeat. Rotate through separate neighborhoods to keep traffic congestion down.
What did Trump say? The impossible is what we do best.
Get a tetanus shot...
>And won't some of those homeowners — are they the homeowners — injure themselves jumping about in the wreckage?<
Yeah, some probably will. So what? Just like they might injure themselves on any normal weekend cleaning out the gutters or moving furniture. They're big boys and girls - what business is this of Karen Bass' for god's sake?
And, What kind of nanny-ass question is this?
Trump may have been emulating Steve Inman's Ludacris cam with Bass.
Maybe with a touch of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman,
https://x.com/SteveInmanUIC/status/1663950506413395969
Open the pumps! Why won’t someone just open the pumps?!?!
Bass embodied caution.
Bass embodied the bureaucratic mentality. She's already planning on setting up an office within the LA city government to handle this. That will take at least a year to staff and find office space, then said office will drag out clean up so they stay employed. Same damn thing happened in Western NC. FEMA couldn't be bothered to get temporary accommodation for people left homeless by the hurricane but they made damn sure they quickly got on the job of finding office space in a nice office park in Durham, over 200 miles away from the affected area.
are there enough dumpsters in CA?
and where will they dump? into the fault??
are these home-owners 'Pioneers Spirit' or fodder/target for Cloward-Piven-ist
are these home-owners 'Pioneers Spirit' or fodder/target for Cloward-Piven-ist
so can any of the home-owners open dumping business?
A two chain saws.of years ago our neighborhood was hit with a major wind storm.. Trees down, roofs ruined, fences destroyed. The damage was wide spread including multiple tornadoes, fortunately not in our neighborhood. A disaster was declared.
My wife and I drove around the neighborhood surveying damage. We picked out what we decided were the people most in need. A young family had a large tree resting on the roof. Went home got my come-a-long, rope, a ladder and a couple of chain saws.
I've dropped a lot of trees over the years (my wife tried to forbid me from doing things like this when I turned 70, but even she agreed to this one) so we were able to strategically cut up the tree so that individual limbs could be removed without further damage and, finally the main trunk dropped. Miraculously the roof wasn't even leaking.
The disaster folk came by weeks later. I'm sure if no one had helped the disaster and insurance people would have helped in a month or so as the damage grew. (Ask me how I know.)
Trump understands Tempo in terms of leadership. In order to overcome a challenge you need to act quicker than the forces that oppose you. This is simple OODA loop stuff.
are these home-owners 'Pioneers Spirit' or fodder/target for Cloward-Piven-ist
any dumpster provider could (if they haven't already) implement an online scheduler, both for drop-off and pickup.
=================
CBP has app for that > recent retired
Trump embodies the pioneering spirit that made America great that still appeals to most Americans.
Trump is building constitutional momentum to overcome bureaucratic inertia.
The problem will be that the city/county/state bureaucracies will not even allow the homeowners to contract with anyone to clear the debris for months going forward. The debris might well still be there 2 years from now.
Paradoxically enough, part of the solution here is the truly vast supply of illegal alien labor in Los Angeles. Order a dumpster, go to the Home Depot and hire 3 or 4 guys at $25 an hour, and put them to work. Illegals aren't particularly good or bad people. Lots of them are happy to work for a living. The labor is there. The problem is longer term. Aren't they crowding out legal low income labor? In an emergency, that's a tomorrow problem.
Trump paying homage to Carter's investment in sweat equity should have bipartisan support.
Peachy- yes it's one of those temporary/permanent deals. They plan to move it to central valley landfill, but last I heard lawyers were suing to keep it or move it or ? It's in limbo now. And yes,,it is very sad how brainwashed people are here. Talking with leftists I know,is like talking to Maddow or MSNBC- Most think Trump is a rapist, a russian asset etc.
Our two Senators are such dim bulbs, and the logical result of a one party state.
The executive orders, the WEF, North Carolina, now L.A. -- Trump is everywhere!
Narayan there are a lot of dumpsters and a couple years back it cost me $130 or so each time they emptied the 6cuft container. However with all the solar panels in PV peninsula they may run into the enviro-regs prohibiting heavy metals (cadmium etc) and other toxins when the panels melted. That's a mess!
Jimmy - I take it you live on Maui. ?
It's the same with all loyal NBC-watching leftists. They are immune to reality.
I have friends & family over there... and actually am thinking of a February visit.
Know one man who died in the fire.
I sort of figured that once they moved all the fire debris to the landfill south of Lahaina - it would probably stay there - despite promises. (Democrats and promises = fat chance, suckas)
Carter's investment in sweat equity? you must be joking
more like I was gov't let me help give you fish
" But don't you need contractors to deliver and pick up those dumpsters? And won't some of those homeowners — are they the homeowners — injure themselves jumping about in the wreckage? What is the big hurry?"
No... city should have garbage trucks to do the pickup... Injure themselves??? Hell man THAT IS THEIR DECISION... Some can do it now.. others can wait... BUT IT IS THEIR DECISION!!! Not some f*cking city or state official who can't even get the ball rolling!!!!
What are all the toxic items that are supposed to be in the soil? Where did they come from? Is there evidence that they are at dangerous levels?
My wife and I evacuated our Altadena home at 7:46 p.m., Feb. 7, and haven't been able to live in it since. The electricity is back on but the water is tainted. We won't return until after professionals clean the inside and the water is safe.
Even then, will all the dangerous toxins be brought back into the house each time we enter?
The county wants people to stay away from their burned out homes for fear of toxic chemicals that might remain. The county already has send in crews to clean up all the broken trees, branches and leaves that filled the streets and gutters. All that debris has been scooped up and taken to the dump without any regard to it being contaminated by toxic smoke.
When I have returned to my home, I wear a paint suit, rubber gloves and a mask. The county is trying to keep people from returning to the remains of their destroyed homes. Can they decide what risk to take for themselves?
During the Covid clamp down, the government leaders told people what to do but didn't followtheir own rules.
I have friends that lost their homes. I don't know if they bothered to return to survey their loss. It's been tough.
You can do everything within 24 hours.
Didn't he say the same thing about ending the Ukraine war?
Shit, you are gullible.
Safety First? Mike Rowe has something to say about that;
"Were safety truly “first,” no level of risk would ever be encouraged or permitted, and no work would ever get done. Or play, for that matter."
That's the problem. "Safety" is over valued and over utilized.
https://mikerowe.com/2020/03/walk-me-through-this-safety-third-thing/
Trump said 'With a house burnt to ash.. you can do everything within 24 hours'. For there is nothing to move... just shovel up and dump. Rent a container and dump it all in it. Truck comes and takes it off.
I live in the hills in Los Angeles. The same winds that drove the Palisades and Eaton fires did a lot of damage in my neighborhood. A tree was blown down blocking one of the two escape routes for our neighborhood. Roofs were either entirely or partially blown off. I had a new metal shed that was destroyed and parts of a concrete block wall were blown down. [Living in the hills during a wind season is not for sissies]. As soon as the wind died down a bit. clean up by me and my neighbors started. Within a couple of days roofing crews were at work. Neighbor got a truck and debris was hauled off. The city didn't help and wasn't asked to. We see a city street sweeper up here every three or four months. Well we won't need a street sweeper for a while, because most of the loose debris was blown to Pasadena! LOL
That is right. Communists are nanny-ists. No trust that people can make decisions on their best interest.
Well, that's even stupider than the partial quote Althouse gave, especially considering the size of some of the houses that burned.
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
Okay so maybe a few stumble and get hurt. They are adults. It’s their property. They can make their own damned decisions. I’d rent a dumpster and a Bobcat loader and have it cleaned up in a day or two. But I’m confident and capable of doing my own work. I’d have to hire a backhoe operator to dig out the footings and remove any broken underground utilities but it’s not a big deal it it shouldn’t cost anywhere near $25,000. Maybe $10,000 if you hire a guy that won’t rip you off. But then the city loses its control over you and the officials lose their cut of the action.
Doesnt mean there should not be some governmental organization. But that takes competent people.
Bass, like practically all Democrat women, is a slave to the Precautionary Principle.
We would be living in caves still, if such as she had held sway over our caveman ancestors, and living on grubs and berries-- BUT NOT THAT BERRY! IT MIGHT MAKE YOU SICK!
Trump just means get the homeowners the permits in the next 24 hours and then let the homeowners decide how to go forward. Some will start right away, some will scrape for money, some will choose to sell. Point is: they all can start. Bass is in a dream out of the past where incompetence doesn't matter. Trump is making sure that the blame will be firmly pinned on her and the Dems unless she gets the permits to the citizens. If she acts, well and good. If she freezes (which I consider likely after listening to her) Rick Caruso and many others now not known to us, will be governing California in the near future.
What toxic chemicals are they talking about, Bob? Did you have to were protective garb when you lived there?
It's going to take longer to sift through the ashes to find belongings than it will be to remove the debris.
"Bass embodied caution. She articulated the interest in safety, but perhaps she wants to save the work for the contractors who — Trump says — will charge $25,000 for each lot cleared."
She's afraid of losing control if people get the idea in their heads that they can manage their own lives without constant government hand-holding.
Can you believe it? A bunch of beaten-down people whimpering "Mommy, may I?" while standing around waiting to clean up THEIR OWN PROPERTY and put their lives back together, and the mayor just sits there and says "Well, maybe in a week or so- we'll see." Nice.
And, as noted above by Big Mike:
"Excuse me, Professor, but if Bass actually cared about safety why was the Santa Ynez reservoir empty, why did fire hydrants run out of water, and why were so many fire trucks parked at a repair depot awaiting the funding to get them fixed?"
safety has nothing to do with it except as a cover to maintain her ability to order people about.
Didn't he say the same thing about ending the Ukraine war?
Once again, Freder makes the stupidest argument over something completely unrelated. Just to argue. It's boring.
"Safe" is a word government invoke when they don't want people to do something they don't like or want you to do. they used the word to shut down this country during a flu epidemic causing much more harm than the damn bug. by the way, Bass wasn't elected to be every ones Mommie!
Don't be surprised if Mayor Bass simply leaves in a month for Ghana, or for some other place far from LA and media. She's overwhelmed, mostly a woke-signal figurehead for liberal-democrat LA folks, has no capacity to deal with complications of governance, certainly not this massive disaster.
You'd be amazed at how much you can get away with doing with a set of blue coveralls and a reflective vest. Even more if you laminate some piece of paper and hang it on a lanyard.
Not all houses comprise 100,000 square feet. And even then it is ash... easy to shovel and clean up. Neighbors can pitch in and it really won't be long to clear the whole block of ash and trash.
Trump was "lighting a fire under their ass". He knows what bureaucratic inertia is. California is sloth-like when it comes to home construction timelines. I think the national average is 6 months, in California for the same job it takes a year.
I'm impressed she didn't continue her international adventure.
You are at ground zero of your own situation. The first decision to do anything is yours. Put a mask on and heavy gloves and start sorting the debris.
"in California for the same job it takes a year."
That might be optimistic. Grok says:
"Last year, the process for obtaining a permit to rebuild a damaged house in Pacific Palisades was generally known to be lengthy, often taking several years. A post on a forum (TexAgs) discussed the experience of a couple in nearby Malibu who had to wait over five years to rebuild after losing their home in a previous fire, suggesting that similar delays might be expected for Pacific Palisades. This timeline reflects the complexities involved with local regulations, environmental reviews under acts like the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) and the Coastal Act, and the general bureaucratic process for approvals and inspections."
Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago, was on - two years ago on
Thanksgiving, when my friend and I went up to visit Alice at the
restaurant, but Alice doesn't live in the restaurant, she lives in the
church nearby the restaurant, in the bell-tower, with her husband Ray and
Fasha the dog. And livin' in the bell tower like that, they got a lot of
room downstairs where the pews used to be in. Havin' all that room,
seein' as how they took out all the pews, they decided that they didn't
have to take out their garbage for a long time.
We got up there, we found all the garbage in there, and we decided it'd be
a friendly gesture for us to take the garbage down to the city dump. So
we took the half a ton of garbage, put it in the back of a red VW microbus,
took shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and headed
on toward the city dump.
Well we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across the
dump saying, "Closed on Thanksgiving." And we had never heard of a dump
closed on Thanksgiving before, and with tears in our eyes we drove off
into the sunset looking for another place to put the garbage.
We didn't find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the side of the
side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the bottom of the
cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided that one big pile
is better than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we
decided to throw our's down.
That's what we did, and drove back to the church, had a thanksgiving
dinner that couldn't be beat, went to sleep and didn't get up until the
next morning, when we got a phone call from officer Obie. He said, "Kid,
we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a half a ton of
garbage, and just wanted to know if you had any information about it." And
I said, "Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope
under that garbage."
Last time we had a blow of note (Hurricane Matthew?), the morning light revealed roads blocked by fallen trees every few hundred feet. There are about a dozen miles of pavement in this private commmunity, along with about a thousand dwellings.
Within an hour, the sound of chainsaws was defeafening. By early afternoon there was not a single road that was impassable. There was access to every home. Neighbors helping neighbors. Lots of sweat and laughter and pride in that work. Complete recovery of the road system on surrounding public lands took months.
My TAMU roommate went on, amazingly, to get his MD and opened a practice, with a doctor wife, in southern Louisiana. When Katrina hit, his office became the only doctors available for 50 miles for the next several years. They made a fortune, working 12 -16 hour days, and also became adept at suturing because of minor chainsaw accidents. I mention this only to confirm that chainsaws are both dangerous and useful. When the safety pants are worn, even a novice can use a chainsaw fairly safely.
Carter's investment in sweat equity is in regard to his post-presidency building of homes for the needy. Carter got out and drove nails, and insisted that the new homeowners also participate in the building, providing "sweat equity" in their new home, even though they paid nothing or very little for the house. Their work provided motivation to maintain the property, which was "THEIRS" in a way Section 8 housing never is.
The burning of chaparral and other vegetation will produce toxicity in the smoke. The real problem comes when houses are burnt to the ground. Pre-1980 houses contain asbestos which when burned in a house fire will produce very small but very toxic particulates. Couches contain all sorts of chemicals that become toxic when burnt. The same for electronic equipment and batteries, especially electric cars.
My problem is that 80-mile-an-hour winds blew this material through the small openings under doors, windows and other openings into the house, which being built in the 1920's, was easy to do.
Now, the issue Trump raises is how much can the county keep people from coming back to their homes and starting the rebuilding process. If someone wants to put on a mask and wear protective clothing to do this, should the county prevent that?
I have put on such protective gear when returning to my house to assist remuneration services in their clean up job.
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