"Vaccines today are cleaner and more efficient, and they contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system — by orders of magnitude — than they did decades ago. What’s more, the immune reactions produced by vaccines are 'minuscule' compared with those that children experience on a daily basis, said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, a pediatrician at Stanford University who advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on vaccines. Children harbor trillions of bacteria, more than the number of their own cells, and encounter pathogens everywhere — from caregivers and playmates; in kitchens, bathrooms and playgrounds; on toys, towels and sponges. 'That’s just the normal course of growing up, is to have fevers and develop immunity to all of the organisms that are in the environment around you,' Dr. Maldonado said.
'We are built to withstand that.'..."
From
"Are Childhood Vaccines ‘Overloading’ the Immune System? No. Vaccines today are more efficient and contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system than some used decades ago" (NYT).
"In most states, children must be vaccinated against about a dozen diseases, a schedule that typically adds up to about 17 doses, administered before they begin kindergarten... Each of the shots contains about 10 antigens. Older vaccines packed a much bigger punch, having up to 300 times as many...."
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from caregivers and playmates; in kitchens, bathrooms and playgrounds; on toys, towels and sponges.
Not counting their smartphones.
The counter is that it's a complex system and the vaccines differ by being designed. Children did not evolve to deal with vaccine makers.
"Each of the shots contains about 10 antigens. Older vaccines packed a much bigger punch, having up to 300 times as many...."
A Change in Vaccine Efficacy and Duration of Protection Explains Recent Rises in Pertussis Incidence in the United States
"Over the past ten years the incidence of pertussis in the United States (U.S.) has risen steadily, with 2012 seeing the highest case number since 1955. There has also been a shift over the same time period in the age group reporting the largest number of cases (aside from infants), from adolescents to 7–11 year olds. We use epidemiological modelling and a large case incidence dataset to explain the upsurge. We investigate several hypotheses for the upsurge in pertussis cases by fitting a suite of dynamic epidemiological models to incidence data from the National Notifiable Disease Surveillance System (NNDSS) between 1990–2009, as well as incidence data from a variety of sources from 1950–1989. We find that: the best-fitting model is one in which vaccine efficacy and duration of protection of the acellular pertussis (aP) vaccine is lower than that of the whole-cell (wP) vaccine, (efficacy of the first three doses 80% [95% CI: 78%, 82%] versus 90% [95% CI: 87%, 94%]), increasing the rate at which disease is reported to NNDSS is not sufficient to explain the upsurge and 3) 2010–2012 disease incidence is predicted well."
Not mentioned in the study is the effect of immigration from countries that don't require pertussis vaccinations. Pure conjecture on my part, but it does make me wonder.
I had a fourth grade teacher whose claim to fame was being an Indophile, and she'd been to India a bunch of times, and she said an Indian mother would think nothing of walking around holding her baby while dragging the tail end of her sari through the dirty streets and then slinging it over the kid's face, so then as now I really don't know what to make of all that except maybe I remember she thought it was a little gross but also kind of okay because India.
That fourth grade teacher had some Indian lady come in and talk to the class and she answered our questions. She was nice. I don't recall any questions about hygiene in India but there must have been a bunch of questions about the cows.
"Vaccines today are cleaner and more efficient, and they contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system — by orders of magnitude — than they did decades ago.”
Is there a reason why we should believe Dr. Moldonado? Whoever Trump appoints to run CDC, I hope that individual consults C. J. Peters pretty heavily. After the pandemic I’m not sure I’d believe anyone who affiliated with the CDC.
Where was she when the government was forcing the vaccination of kids under 18 with the untested Covid vaccine?The "science" as well as the observable evidence told us that the kids' robust immune systems protected them.
(Maybe I'll do some research--although generally the Althouse commentariat provides a quicker answer).
Children only need all those vaccines because they’re forced into a disease vector for 13 years
Experts. Feh
Dr Maldonado seems to be acknowledging that "decades ago" (say 20 years ago, the early 2000s) that vaccines might have been problematic, but now everything is just A-OK. "Trust us this time."
And the story is lacking any discussion of cost-benefit analysis across different vaccines. I don't know if the chicken pox vaccine is included in the schedule, but chicken pox is a relatively minor illness. Parents used to have chicken pox parties to expose their kids so they would get immunity. Is that vaccine necessary?
Come on, bro. You can trust the NY Times. They're never dishonest, bro. They never report 100% the opposite of what the truth is, bro. Just believe them bro. PLEASE. Just believe them. Come on, bro.
But do they really?
I've seen several reports recently of speculation, and possibly confirming research, that the seeming explosion of nut allergies among children is due at least in part to the extremely zealous effort by parents and caregivers to ensure that kids don't come in contact with nuts. The research indicates that incidental minor exposure over time decreases the development of allergy symptoms. I see a lot of evidence parents and caregivers try to do the same thing regarding viruses and bacteria.
To paraphrase Goebbels, Whenever I hear the words, "experts said" I want to reach for my gun.
'We are built to withstand that.'..."
Before antibiotics and vastly improved public sanitation systems children routinely died due to things we now consider minor. The antibiotic cream you search for when you get a scratch? Its a magic ointment.
I went for a blood draw and a child was there, too. She spent 10 minutes with the nurse screaming bloody murder from fear of the needle.
Maybe 17 shots before the age of 5 has all kinds of unintended consequences.
The advances reported address the concerns vaccine skeptics have been saying, no? Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
Why make it mandatory (I checked, and it is required for school)? It's not a life-threatening illness. Where's the risk-benefit analysis?
I'll ignore the ad hominem, except to say that I have no school-age children.
we have seen, that the idea of calling these people "experts" is fundamentally flawed
we have seen, that the idea of calling these vaccines "vaccines" is fundamentally flawed
any further questions?
If modern vaccines have been drastically "nerfed" compared to older ones, doesn't that validate the idea that the older ones might have been, you know, dangerous?
Wasn't that "measles parties"? (I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive.)
"vaccinated against about a dozen diseases, a schedule that typically adds up to about 17 doses, administered before they begin kindergarten... "
were you looking for Yet Another Reason to homeschool?
i wonder how many vaccines my Amish neighbors get for Their kids?
i wonder how many cases of autism or Polio they have?
So vaccines are cleaner says the good doctor. Did he address the DNA contamination present in the Covid mRNA "vaccines" that can integrate into the genome of normal human cells? What are the long term consequences doc?
https://changingtimes.media/2024/12/06/experts-warn-of-cancer-risk-as-dna-contamination-is-found-in-mrna-covid-19-vaccines/
"Dr Maldonado seems to be acknowledging that "decades ago" (say 20 years ago, the early 2000s) that vaccines might have been problematic, but now everything is just A-OK. "Trust us this time."
My thoughts exactly. And I doubt you could find the "experts" saying the older vaccines were a problem.
But at least the Covid non-vaccines have one hell of a test group (i.e. damn near everyone). Long term results to follow.
So, MSM Is going into overdrive to reassure us that the current system is perfect and to listen to the X-buts. Mabye it is, and maybe it isn't. Maybe RFK has a point. Let him run HHS and lets have a debate.
Never get a flu shot, never got any of the covid shots. I'm due for a tetanus shot but I think I'll have to look into the manufacturer and what exactly is in it. I don't trust them about anything now.
Is the idea that vaccines are "overtaxing children's immune systems" the real issue here? Seems to me the more fundamental issue is whether public health officials have the right to decide whether your children should be vaccinated and what vaccines they should receive. We already saw with covid that public health officials believe that have essentially plenary authority not only to decide these things, but to make up whatever shit they want in order to induce compliance. Because they are "science" and science can never be questioned.
As usual, answering a different question than what has been asked. I don't think anyone thinks that the potential issue is simply too much antigen.
What people are worried about is that either the adjuvants used to make the immune system respond, or the particular ways the antigens are engineered, or contamination from the replication methods, or some combination thereof causes the immune systems of some susceptible subset of the population to attack their own tissues at a sub-clinical level (i.e., not like lupus or MS) that interferes somehow with brain development.
I used to be very much knee-jerk "The immune system has nothing to do with autism, so vaccines can't be a contributing factor to autism!" and there still isn't anything conclusive, but that's because the way newer vaccines are tested is so idiotic that it almost HAS to be intended to obscure any effects.
RFK seems like an intelligent man, so I assume he has support for his views, some of which is supported by X-burts, except those X-Burts don't get quoted in the NYTs. Given the MSM track record during CV-19 (remember when trump was labeled a scaredy-cat racist for wanting to stop flights from China?) I'm not accepting anything they support about anything without external confirmation.
Unless it's the "nerfing" that actually causes the problem by producing longer-term sub-clinical effects that aren't caught in the safety trials . . .
They didn't just reduce the amount of antigen and do nothing else. They they add adjuvants that stimulate the immune system in general and then assume that it will attack amount of antigen that wasn't on its own enough to provoke a strong immune response. But if that general activation of the immune system causes the body to also turn on some of its own tissues, which is what happens in MS, when the immune system attacks the myelin sheaths of the nerves, there could be effects on brain development.
It may be that the old vaccines were better because they ONLY stimulated the immune system to go after that particular set of proteins.
Megthered said:
Never get a flu shot, never got any of the covid shots. I'm due for a tetanus shot but I think I'll have to look into the manufacturer and what exactly is in it. I don't trust them about anything now.
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There are some reports that say that the tetanus shot reduces fertility. I don't get flu shots, pneumonia shots, nor any of the Covid shots. The pharmacies and physicians are still pushing them though. That's the first question asked of me when I approach the pharmacy counter, or when I check in at the doctor's office. Do I want a flu/pneumonia/Covid Vaccine? No, No, and Hell No.
Another pre-'dunk' on Junior's nomination. He's an out-of-control crank, I tells ya. They're trotting them off the line, one after another.
Well, I wish you the best. The easily, harmlessly-preventable Tetanus is a really shitty way to die.
In 2017 I had a totally ordinary upper respiratory infection, and then suddenly horrible joint pain in my hands and feet that just would not go away. My c-reactive protein, etc. was too low for it to be a regular auto-immune disease (thank God), but I still had the pain and stiffness and nobody could do anything about it. Then I found a 78-year-old rheumatologist who tested me for all the most horrible auto-immune diseases that exist, told me I had none of them, and said that sometimes after a viral infection, the body attacks its own tissues--such as synovial fluid in the joints--at a very low level. "I'm going to put you on this very old, utterly safe, anti-malaria drug," he said. When I asked why: "No one knows why it works, but it sometimes does, and there are no side-effects--except you have to get your vision checked every six months--so I want you to stay on it until the symptoms go away." 9-10 months later and one morning I woke up and could walk across the floor without wincing. That drug: plaquinel, also known as the deadly poison hydroxychloroquine. (I wonder how many people with "long-covid" would be helped the way I was?)
The relevance of this story to the vaccine debate is that it is possible for the immune system to be activated against the body's own tissues in a very low-grade way, not anything close to the misery that is lupus or MS or scleroderma. It seems to me that such a low-grade auto-immune response against nerve tissue or glial cells or something else CNS-related could affect developing brains negatively.
You'd think that the people at the FDA, and pediatricians in general, would want to look into that rather than trying to shout down anyone who questions the system. There are a lot of candidates for whom blame (which we all know), and I'd like to add one more: the baleful effect of a lot of the ideology behind "public health." The mask came off during the pandemic, and we should remember what was behind it: "first, do no harm" for each individual patient abandoned and manipulation of public opinion to get "compliance" elevated above every other good.
You get tetanus; you're not going to live to regret it.
>cfs said...
There are some reports that say that the tetanus shot reduces fertility.<
I doubt that such reports - from any erudite source, that is - exist. The "reports" you mention most assuredly come from some marginal, hysterical internet source that doesn't know what it's talking about.
Scientists have investigated vaccines that link human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) to tetanus toxoid (TT) to induce antibodies against hCG and prevent pregnancy. This experimental birth control vaccine is distinct from standard tetanus vaccines used for immunization against tetanus disease. TT has a well-established safety profile, making it a logical choice as a carrier protein for experimental birth control vaccines.
Oh. Experts are back again.
Maybe the chicken pox vaccine is mandatory because without it children would miss days of school and the school wouldn't get paid by the state.
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