"... just days after President Biden gave permission to do so in what amounted to a major shift of American policy. The pre-dawn attack struck an ammunition depot in the Bryansk region of southwestern Russia.... The strike represented a demonstration of force for Ukraine as it tries to show Western allies that providing more powerful and sophisticated weapons will pay off — by degrading Russia’s forces and bolstering Ukraine’s prospects in the war..... The authorization came just months before the return to office of President-elect Donald J. Trump, who has said he will seek a quick end to the war in Ukraine...."
From "Ukraine Fired U.S.-Made Missiles Into Russia for First Time, Officials Say/The attack came just days after President Biden gave Ukraine permission to use the weapons to strike targets inside Russia" (NYT).
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68 comments:
Why? Biden and his handlers want to escalate things so an end to the war becomes more elusive? War mongers.
Biden's going to keep sending big "F*** You's" to the electorate that just kicked his party to the curb. Next couple of months will be bumpy.
Boom goes London, boom Paris.
More room for you and more room for me.
Like I said yesterday, I suspect that this is much more a "fuck you" to the escalation management folks in his own administration.
Bidien willing to start WW III. Too little and way too late--Biden dithered and bumbled on decisions--and munitions. Or put another way if he'd stopped the munitions flow altogether and early the war would be over by now.
We instigated the entire Ukraine war and now we are risking nuclear retaliation with a doddering dementia patient in the white house. THANKS A ******* LOT DEMOCRATS.
Two questions:
1) Does Biden even know about this "major shift of American policy"? Its clear that he is mentally and physically impaired, probably to the point where he doesn't understand much of what is going on in the world. If he didn't make this change then who did?
2) Why do this now? And would this shift have occurred if Trump hadn't won the election? Is this an attempt to muddy our foreign policy and/or make it harder for the new administration to negotiate a settlement in Ukraine?
Traditionally lame duck administrations quietly tread water for a few months to allow the new president a smoother transition. But it appears the party of "norms" is now attempting to blow up the world before that transition can happen.
I wouldn't panic. Aside from the election results, the range of ATACMS can't actually get deep enough into Russian territory to do major damage. Now eventually such missiles will be tipped with plutononium, but Russia has plans for that too.
What should terrify Europe is declaring war on Russia, or Russia considering ear to have been declared, only for the Trump Administration to decide against sending American forces. They're in much worse position compared to 1936, and they know it.
Which was followed by "Putin signs revised doctrine lowering threshold for nuclear response if Russia is attacked."
I don't like this and don't see how Trump solves it. But war sucks and diplomacy is hard.
1. Yes Biden knows.
2. Why now? The administration has been dragging its feet on this request and maybe time is running out for Ukraine, whose lawmakers criticized the U.S. for the delayed action.
Russia will solve the Muslim problem in both countries on one day
They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Biden’s Foreign Policy: 1. Start Ukraine war; 2. Hobbles Israel in their was against Hamas, Hezbollah; 3 Fucked up withdrawal from Afghanistan killing 13 US soldiers and leaving $$$MILLIONS ($$$billions?) of equipment & armament there; 4. Let in millions of illegals that get better benefits than our soldiers
Gates was correct. Joe truly knows how to screw things up.
And we just saw what the G20 thinks of him. Biden doesn’t show up on time for the group picture. Picture taken & when reporters say “wait for Biden” the whole group saunters out!
Z just showed Russia if they use nukes Z will put dirty bombs on 'em and rain them on Moscow.... Now if Putin's North Korean troops push to invade the Ukraine more than it is... the war will turn truly nasty... and having nuke ability tends to keep invaders from invading.
Consider Zs firing 5 missiles a show of force to Putin. For all we know Trump, who has talked to Z, said ok to this.
Putin has written some checks with his mouth that if he doesn't back them up, Russia will have been humiliated, and Russia will lose the war. IMHO
We have put him in the position where he will have to either do something that escalates noticeably towards nuclear war with the US, or slink away, and try to get the best deal that he can in the fire sale of Russian assets to Western oligarchs that will follow.
Kiev is claiming that the ammo depot that they hit was "North Korean," which is nonsense. It looks like it was pretty huge though. The "evidence" that I have seen is a "Russian soldier" who "surrendered" to Ukraine and claimed that he gave up because the North Korean soldiers were shooting the wrong way and killing Russians and he was worried about being killed by them.
It is not hard for a Ukrainian, many of who natively speak Russian natively, for instance Zelensky had to learn Ukrainian as an adult, not hard for them to pass as Russian. This video came from the Ukrainian "anti-disinformation" bureau, we know that it has bee thoroughly fact checked!
BTW, disinformation is defined such that even the truth is "disinformation" if it hurts your cause. So even if Putin is telling the truth about something, it is still "Russian disinformation," and it would be unpatriotic of us to believe him.
Read the writings, it's all in there.
He fired five missiles because he wanted one of them to get through. I don't discount completely the sickening possibility that Trump knows all about this, BTW.
Biden may know, but he wasn't the 'decider'.
Blinken explained the withdrawal from Afghanistan, it was to get American troops out of the reach of Putin. If they were still there, Russia would be arming them up today to a level where we would have been driven out by force.
It's more evidence that this war has been planned by the US for a long while, and we provoked them, figuring that they were falling into a trap. And it still may work out that way.
Biden got out of Washington, and was among the EU warmongers in the G7, and so any restraints that the blob were putting on him were relaxed a little, and that's all the Europeans needed.
The Europeans had a plan and they gambled big on it. Drive Putin from the Black Sea, replace Russian gas with gas from Crimea and the Black Sea, which is now, in their plan, anyway, a NATO lake, and sit back and watch the Russian Federation collapse, well, with our help and some "color revolutions" in some of the non ethnically Russian republics.
It was a bold plan, but if it doesn't work, Europe will have lost its shirt on the bet. The US doesn't care.
Hard to say if any of this is real. Given how coordinated the announcements are (relative to the silence about what goes on during the day to day), this feels is a publicity campaign for: (1) something that may have already been happening or (2) to create problems for the new Administration; or (3) to stir up fears about WW3 as a way of stimulating the peace process (or serious negotiations) or (4) something else…
Realistically – the last thing Biden needs is leaving office having provoked a real escalation of a big mess that someone else needs to clean up and blame on him.
And does anyone really think that ATACM strikes "in Russian territory" are going to change the facts on the ground or motivate any real change in behavior by either side.
"The first casualty of war is the truth”
World War Truple progresses from World War Springs.
The most important part was that after Russia collapses, we can pick off China at our leisure. We can take Taiwan and use it, like the Japanese did prior, as a platform to conquer the mainland. That's how Taiwan got separated, Imperial Japan took it. Then, after WWII, when China tried to take it back, we stopped them with our military. See "Taiwan Crisis," there were several of them in the '50s.
China's biggest weakness is that they are not a traditional naval power, no matter how many ships they build. Russia is. Not like the US, but they know their way around a battleship and a submarine and have a naval tradition. We can't let China have an ally like Russia.
This is all in the books they write. They are quite open about it. This is not stuff I cooked up like meth on the kitchen stove.
Where is the General or Colonel who will put an end to Putin, as was done with the Ceaușescus of Romania? At this point that seems the best end of the war in Ukraine and the best outcome for Russia overall.
Oh, the explosions were real, and they were spectacular. But I am with you on the whole "fog of war" thing, ball is in Putin's court right now.
X giveth, and X taketh away, the explosions were fake, it was old video. Maybe the Russians were not lying that nothing happened but a small fire.
Fog of war.
Biden is desperate to keep the corrupt money laundry going. Nothing to see here.
Please forgive my ignorance. But why did Ukraine need our permission to attack Russia? Why couldn’t they have attacked at the very beginning three years ago? Not saying Ukraine is right or wrong either way, but…international politics is one area in which I have zero knowledge.
This was why zielinsky was happy after the meeting with Trump and Musk because they gave their tacit approval of this strike.
The Democrats have a habit of copying the worst mistakes of the Republicans, and saying "If they get away with it so can we." First, Obama adopted G.W. Bush's post-911 foreign interventionism (i.e., Iraq led to Ukraine), and then Biden turned Trump's brash ignorance into brash "should have known better" recklessness.
Career politicians are power-mad psychopaths. It's what they do.
Never mind that Putin said he would consider this an act of war by the US. Hell of a risk to take to cover Hunter's Ukraine grifting. Joe Dementia's legacy may destroy the Republic and us with it.
They needed permission to use US-donated missiles to do so, else we would cut them off from further armaments.
This is what was needed 2 years ago. But better late than never.
Putin could stop the war today, by withdrawing his forces to within Russia’s borders.
As far as I am aware, Trump himself has made no comment about the missile deployment.
Unlike the UK, where the new administration takes control as soon as it commands an HoC majority, Trump remains a private citizen until his inauguration in late January.
However, it is a well established procedure that the president elect is confidentially briefed by the outgoing incumbent, and Trump has already had talks with Biden, in which foreign policy in particular was discussed (e.g. Obama specifically briefed Trump over N Korea).
So I can only assume that Trump is on-board with all this.
It's doubtful that it was ATACMS - Ukraine hit the same ammo dump with drones last month, and it doesn't seem to be cluster munitions anyway.
“The Russian ministry of defense confirmed an attack on its soil had taken place, claiming its air defense systems shot down five of six ATACMS missiles over the Bryansk region.”
Were they intercepted by munition depots and/or airfields?
Reminds me of some UFC commentary on a knockout from years ago:
"He blocked that knee.. with his face". 😉
The USA vs. Russia is not the most troubling war. Both countries are cultural has-beens and falling apart. This includes alcoholism and apathy in Russia, versus selfish indulgence and Woke in the US. China (and weird N. Korea) are the genuine threats. East Asians have astounding talent, the Chinese have filled our college STEM programs with brilliant students and taken all the science home, they make everything you own, and they are just getting warmed up.
China was defeating the rest of the world in WW III before the rest of the world knew they were in a war. Phones. Drones. Running non-Chinese manufacturers out of business. The economic imperialism of Belt-and-Road. This war dates back to the takeover of Hong Kong and their building of military bases in the South China Sea.
Dropping bombs is the last thing Trump would do or counsel another nation to do. How do you all stay so oblivious to Donald Trump's character?
Gimme a break! The grifters who support endless war are trying to delay/destroy the negotiated peace the Trump Administration would put in place.
Rich. Every time you post a panda dies.
Prior to 2020 it wasn't even an issue, dumbass.
Hey, did the pansy "General" Milley call his counterpart in Russia telling him of Biden's provocations for war?
I understand that Milley is no longer the chief of the Chiefs. Still, his silence is a loud and clear sign he''s Democrat Trump hater. And traitor.
They are trying to get Putin to attack America after Trump becomes President so that they can blame it on him.
Donald Trump MUST arrest these people on Day One for their crimes. Supplying money and arms to terrorists is a FELONY.
^^ Trump signed off on this, there is zero chance he didn't know. Trump is not the savior you are praying for Ivan.
Trump signed off on this, there is zero chance he didn't know.
Written with no evidence.
Putin could retaliate today with strategic bombing.
Putin now says he can use nukes against the Western nations if Ukraine continues to lob ballistic missiles against Russia. I wouldn’t bet against it.
- Krumhorn
Unlikely.
LLR-democratical Rich, as he did with the disastrous harris/biden afghanistan surrender-withdrawal, is ALREADY laying the harris/biden ATACMS missile attacks on Trump!
LOL
Again, as always, Rich really should just stick with commenting on facebook or democratic underground.
Biden starts WW 3 on his way out the door. A perfect ending to the worse presidency in American history. Thanks, Joe for all the misery, death and destruction.
Us providing these weapons AND performing the logistics and control of them is an open act of war imo. Tremendously dangerous and reckless.’
"We instigated the entire Ukraine war"
Complete and utter bullshit.
Feel sad for the Ukrainians dying in this war, because at this point its for nothing. Putin is NEVER giving back the Crimea or the 6 oblasts that were incoporated into Russia. And when I write "Putin", I mean Russia and its entire elite.
At this point, giving Zelenskyyyy these kinds of missiles reeks of desperation. I suppose it might give Putin more incentive to make peace on better terms for Ukraine, but its more likely just to make him angry and decide the West can't be dealt with. And then what? Well, Russia might give Iran a few Nukes. Y'know if gloves are off, why not?
Or maybe a full blown offensive to take all of Ukraine.
"Old video"? That seems to be the pattern if you follow this stuff on X (the only place to get sort-of real time updates on the propaganda around what's going on on that front. And bigger hits sometimes seem to get minimized (by both sides).
Big FU to America. He joins Hussein in wanting to fundamentally transform America. If you haven't realized it by now...they hate us.
Ukrainian terrorist and fascist military groups were active against Russian speaking citizens in eastern Ukraine long before Russia invaded Ukraine. This was one of the real, documented reasons Russia invaded Ukraine.
Ballistic missile is being used very loosely. Yeah, technically an ATACM is ballistic, but if we are going to use this wide of a definition, then mortars are ballistic missiles and so are fired artillery rounds.
What tommyesq said. Also Ukraine has been attacking Russia inside Russian territory for quite awhile now. They were just not allowed to use US weapons provided for their defensive in offensive strikes in Russia, until now. That last sentence may not seem like much, but it is the difference in defending Ukraine with US assets and attacking Ukraine with US assets.
If you want historical context; the US started selling military supplies to the UK and France during WWII in June of 1940. In March of 1941, the US formally began the lend-lease program providing aid to UK to fight the Germans. It wasn't until Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941, that either the US or Germany declared war on each other. Pearl Harbor was when US soil was first directly attacked in WWII.
Now that the fog of X is starting to clear, I will wait for satellite pics. Supposedly the strike is not showing up on the forest fire monitoring satellite data, which has been a pretty reliable proxy for combat operations.
So it seems like the attack was a dud, and Ukraine rushed out some video of a previous strike, probably in order to maximize the pressure on Putin to respond, preferably, overly heavy handedly.
Still too early to tell though. I can't believe I fell for their psy ops again.
Russia is not going to start a nuclear WWIII for a missile with a range of 190 miles and warhead of less than 500 lbs. Considering what the Iranians and Koreans have been sending for the Russians to use, it is an embarrassment that the Trumpers have been squealing like scared children. If you want criticize Biden it should be about not doing much more much sooner. The crime is the way they have drug it out.
Trump is certainty not a warmonger, but neither is he a pacifist or a Libertarian.
Those who have been convinced otherwise are going to be disappointed.
Jaq, the Romans had no naval tradition and they beat Cathage.
To get where you went, Leland, you have to also use a loose definition of "missile."
I agree with you in principle, but I want to see how he and his appointees react when Putin drives a hard bargain to settle with the Ukrainians.
"Dropping bombs is the last thing Trump would do"? Really? When a regiment of Wagner troops started firing at American troops in the area, the Russian commander was told to make them stop. He said "Nothing to do with us. They may be Russians, but they're mercenaries, not under command, so we can't stop them." Trump sent in a combination of artillery, missiles, and bombers, some from as far away as Diego Garcia - just to show off our power - and wiped out the entire regiment, killing or wounding all 500 of them.
@Kakistocracy, there's an interesting position: Once you're told about something, you automatically agree with it, and endorse it wholeheartedly.
Never been in a courtroom before?
The same guy who insisted on a previous thread that US troops are definitely in Ukraine aiming the ATACMs now insists that there are no North Koreans in Russia. There is no evidence whatsoever for the former, and a great deal of evidence for the latter, but it's all simulated by sneaky Ukrainians!
As usual, 'Jaq' is a liar, a complete moron, or utterly insane. That he keeps insisting the US wants to make a nuclear first strike on Russia from Ukraine is a strong sign of the last. I've pointed out before that we wouldn't need Ukraine to do that, if we were insane enough to want to, because Latvia is just about as close to Moscow as Ukraine is, and a lot closer to St. Petersburg. I told him to look at a damned map, but he never did so.
He also wrote (on the overnight thread) "This is the first time that a nuclear superpower, the United States, has directly attacked another nuclear superpower. It's a bold strategy!" Ten seconds with DuckDuckGo would have told him that Russians dressed in Korean and North Vietnamese uniforms killed hundreds of American soldiers in those two wars. This would not, therefore, be the first or second time, and it's not the third time either, because it's not happening now. Americans are not firing the ATACMs, we are just supplying them, as Iran supplies the Shahed drones Russia uses to slaughter civilians in their beds every night. He insists Ukrainians are too stupid to aim ATACMs at Russian territory, when they've been aiming them at Russian-occupied Ukrainian territory for months, and there is no technological difference between the two.
Hitler to the left of me, Hitler to the right of me, here I am in the middle stuck with Hitler
The Kremlin are now attempting to explain "...why Ukraine conflict will last a little longer.
“When all this started, it started against the Kiev regime. And now it is continuing as a war between Russia and NATO. That is why it took a little bit longer and will take a little bit longer,” ~ Dmitry Peskov
This reminds me of the joke which I know it's old....
A Russian man woke up after a coma lasting since February 2022, and asked the doctor what's happened when he was asleep? It's not good I'm afraid, said the doctor, we're at war with NATO. Our losses are:
● 724,000 Personnel Killed
● 2,172,000 Wounded
● 19,100 Combat vehicles destroyed
● 9,400 Tanks destroyed
● 20,600 Artillery destroyed
● 369 Aircraft shot down
● 329 Helicopters shot down
● 1 Submarine sunk
● 28 Ships including the flagship sunk
That's awful, said the man, what are the losses of NATO?
Nothing, replied the doctor, they haven't mobilized yet! 🤣
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