October 9, 2024

"So the surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, put out an advisory. These are rare warnings. Past ones have been for things like cigarettes or gun violence."

"And this time what he's saying is that today's parents are not okay. They're too stressed, not the normal amount of stress. But what he's saying is that parenting has become so difficult that it's become an urgent public health crisis.... And he does say parenting has always been something that brings both joy and challenge at the same time. But what's really different now is that we have entered this new era of parenting. Social scientists call it intensive parenting.... The basic idea of intensive parenting.... is that kids need to be sort of constantly educated and enriched and engaged.... And so that's, like, when you take a walk and you notice that the leaves are changing, you say to your child, look, the leaves are changing. Do you know what drives that? Do you know why that's happening?... So when this style of parenting started, it was certainly an upper middle class phenomenon, but a variety of research has shown that it has spread across the income spectrum, across racial groups...."

From today's episode of the NYT podcast "The Daily," "The Parents Aren’t All Right" (audio and transcript at Podscribe).

45 comments:

Achilles said...

Birth rates are way down because the government has made it extremely expensive and stressful to raise kids.

They know that people without kids love daddy government.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Useless position, Surgeon General. And this is a useless “advisory”.

And it’s based on useless “science”… social scientists say…

It’s fine to read and consider so called social sciences, but it’s not “science”

How about “don’t beat your kids, or have sex with them, or offer them up to the LGBTQIA Gods by giving them hormone blockers and cutting off their genitalia. Let’s start there.

Leland said...

They are coming for your children.

Dave Begley said...

Maybe the runaway inflation intentionally caused by Biden-Harris has something to do with the stress parents have right now.

Jupiter said...

To me, the most stressful aspect of parenting was always the worry that the "educational authorities" would take them away and harm them. And that was before I fully realized what a filthy pack of scum those "authorities" really are.

mccullough said...

The Panic, The Vomit

Big Mike said...

The neverending bureaucratic drive to expand one’s area of authority, made manifest.

tim maguire said...

When I was a child, all that was expected of parents is that their son not get arrested and their daughter not get pregnant. If you managed that, then you were a good parent.

Now we expect parents to ensure that their child performs at the highest level by every measure, no matter the cost. Partly I blame smaller families, where fewer children means more attention to each child. But also educators, social scientists, and the government all help create an unforgiving atmosphere.

And then there's mommy groups...

Aggie said...

Oh, F*ck Off awready, and Go Away !

tommyesq said...

Why now? How does this help Kamala/hurt Trump in the election (or is it ramming this through before Trump takes over and puts an end to this kind of nonsense)? What is the proposed fix - parenting less intensely or turning over some (further) element of parenting to Big Daddy Government?

Be very suspicious...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

In all fairness, who among us doesn't find it overwhelmingly stressful to take a walk with a child and talk about changing leaves?

Gusty Winds said...

So when this style of parenting started, it was certainly an upper middle class phenomenon, but a variety of research has shown that it has spread across the income spectrum, across racial groups...."

I've commented on this prior. Generation X started the helicopter parenting. Juice boxes and snacks at soccer practice. Scheduled "play dates." Turned parenting into some strange competition on Facebook. Capitulated to the public schools dosing the young boys with Ritalin; girls with anti-depressants.

When my kids were young I was baffled. As Generation X we were "latch key" kids who roamed free. Threw keggers when our parents were out of town. Organized pick up baseball games in the summer, and football games in the fall.

It was an upper middle class this that started during the McMansion boom.

Quaestor said...

I see much that is mistaken and even harmful for children and adults caused by "intensive parenting" Parenting, itself, for example. (When did that become a word?) However, when public schools have become a haven for destructive brats with no interest in learning and destructive adults with purple hair and no interesting in teaching anything but destructive nonsense, I can only wish those intensive parents godspeed against the sloughing rough Beast.

Original Mike said...

We certainly weren't hovered over.
"Where you going?"
"We're going to walk up to the capitol" (which was 5 miles away).
"Be home for dinner."

tommyesq said...

From the HHS website:

"As the Nation’s Doctor, the 21st Surgeon General of the United States, Dr. Murthy, has issued Surgeon General’s Advisories on Firearm Violence - PDF, Loneliness and Isolation - PDF, Social Media and Youth Mental Health - PDF, Youth Mental Health, Health Worker Well-Being, and a Framework on Workplace Well-Being."

Seems like he has a pattern, huh?

tommyesq said...

Here's a serious question - in these days of wildly spiraling federal debt and mandated nationwide healthcare, what do we need a "Surgeon General" for? The role of the position is to "provide Americans with the best scientific information available on how to improve their health and reduce the risk of illness and injury." Isn't that the job of the whole medical profession? Is there some reason to believe that more is needed?

Michael K said...

Oh, yes. And they are not subtle about it.

wild chicken said...

I can recall Ad Council spots on AM radio 20 yrs ago advising parents how to talk to their kids...just like that. Momsplaining every fucking thing. Only targeted at black moms for some reason.

Ice Nine said...

They do? Who decided that?

Todd said...

But what he's saying is that parenting has become so difficult that it's become an urgent public health crisis....

No doubt! I would be overly stressed too if I had the government, schools, media, online media, ticktock, and their friends/peers all telling them that they likely are the opposite of their birth sex and should take non-reversable actions to rectify this. So just STOP IT!

Yancey Ward said...

I have watched my siblings raise their children with a kind of amazement and trepidation. They spend far more time with their children than our own parents ever spent with us. Once we were potty trained we were expected to entertain ourselves within extremely broad and loose guidelines of dos and don'ts. I never had children so I can't be certain what I would have done in raising them but I do believe I would have followed my parents way of doing it as long the hypothetical mother would have allowed.

Lazarus said...

So, is he for or against "intensive parenting"? Is this a case of a supposed solution becoming a problem? Is the prescription now more of the same or a hands-off attitude?

If experience is any guide, kids who have been "intensively parented" will raise "free range" kids when they grow up and have kids ... if they have kids ... if they do grow up.

Rocketeer said...

I laughed out loud, at both the quote and your response. If that’s stressful, give me more of it. I always enjoyed those interactions when my kids were young.

Christopher B said...

One of the things that Strauss and Howe identified as a driver of their generational cycle was the periodic oscillation between (generically) strict and permissive parenting. During a High parents encourage exploration. During an Awakening, parents become detached, preoccupied with their own concerns. During an Unraveling, parents become protective as the social order decays. In a Crisis, parents shield kids from the adult world.

We're deep in the 4th turning, deep enough to see the outlines of the coming High.

Rocco said...

tim maguire said...
When I was a child, all that was expected of parents is that their son not get arrested and their daughter not get pregnant. If you managed that, then you were a good parent.

To that I would just add be self sufficient. But that captures it.

Michael K said...

Originally, the SG was head of the Public Health Service. That was mostly sanitation and infectious disease.

MadTownGuy said...

Five Things Marx Wanted to Abolish, Besides Private Property

(Excerpt)
"1. The Family

Marx admits that destroying the family is a thorny topic, even for revolutionaries. “Abolition of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists,” he writes.

But he said opponents of this idea fail to understand a key fact about the family.

“On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie,” he writes.

Best of all, abolishing the family would be relatively easy once bourgeois property was abolished. “The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.

Freeman Hunt said...

Oh, please. The problem with parenting today is definitely not that parents are too involved.

CJinPA said...

I can't be the only one feeling stress because the most powerful government on earth is issuing opinions, and eventually policy, on perceived citizen stress.

Every single government position will expand its power if allowed to.

Inga said...

It’s from The Book of Achilles, chapter 3, verse 5.

gilbar said...

I'm from the government and I'm here to help educate your kids

doctrev said...

If your soystuffed parents are whinier and more ignorant than you are, of course their children won't respect them.

gilbar said...

well.. The Good News IS:
for MOST black kids.. Their dad was NEVER there, and their mom aborted them..
So Problem Solved!

henge2243 said...

Sounds like stupidity is again the problem.

Ice Nine said...

Naa, that would be unattractively dogmatic. Achilles would never do that...

Inga said...

Raising one’s children based on a belief in some pseudo Christian, mystical, populist nonsense might not be in the best interest of the child. Steve Bannon’s bible sure didn’t put him in a great place in life.

Michael K said...

My kids were allowed much more freedom than their kids have been allowed. Some had changes in geography to blame but it was still less than I had. I quit kindergarten after 2 days and my mother never found out until I told her years later. I spent the days helping a guy I knew in his nursery. It was next door to the school.

Michael K said...

The dullard informs us that public schools are her choice. Purple hair and tranny stuff is A-OK. Steve Bannon has far more education and accomplishments than you do, dummy.

Birches said...

Having a bunch of kids makes it impossible to be a helicopter parent. More people should do it. I highly recommend it.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

The Senile Asshole#1…
Steve Bannon’s “education and accomplishments” has catapulted him into prison. What lofty heights he’s risen to in life. They even gave him an extra blanket for his prison cot based on his brilliant career. I know you are a Steve Bannon acolyte, I recall how excited you were to go see him when he spoke in your city. How is that wall he was collecting money for, is it finished yet? He isn’t going to be spending much free time out of jail before he croaks. He already looks like he’s half dead based on his mottled skin, red nose and huge belly.

One Fine Day said...

It all started with the self-indulgence and narcissism of the Boomers, raising their Gen X kids as an extension of their own self-absorption.

As you note Gusty, we Gen Xers grew up as latchkey kids -- not only that, but we grew up watching families disintegrate through no-fault divorce. We got to witness the rise of the tabloid media, 24 hours a day of bad/shocking news, things that made the world seem more dangerous than ever with abducted kids on milk cartons, sexual assault on the nightly news, stranger danger, etc. It also was the time where age-old expectations of how kids would behave in public broke down and kids started to act out their emotions in ways that were never acceptable before. It was the time of the rise of credentialism, of the "need" for childhood achievement and glory in order to improve one's chances of being in the top tier of society.

The adults who were taking care of us while our divorced mom was at work being sexually harassed and dad was off golfing with his hot side chick now demanded that parents be present at activities to help manage the unmanageable kids. Parents felt the need to schedule their kids into life-enhancing activities out of guilt for not spending "quality time" with them. Soon kids' sports would become the field of adult dreams and Gen X carried the torch with their own children. The parents had to be present, the child had to be performing, and everyone was taking drugs to cope with the stresses we brought upon ourselves.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Apparently ordinary parent-child interactions are an upper-middle class phenomenon. Consider yourself privileged.

ALP said...

I believe comedian Chris Rock has a better way, at least in terms of daughters. If you kept them off the pole, you've done a good job. For sons, I'd guess that keeping them out of jail is the equivalent.

typingtalker said...

"And so that's, like, when you take a walk and you notice that the leaves are changing, you say to your child, look, the leaves are changing."

The Stress. The Stress! Lord -- spare me The Stress of Changing Leaves.