What's the story with "story"? Is there some reason for this word to become more useful than "narrative" or "framing" in speaking about how politicians communicate with the people?
Advisers, behind the scenes, may be saying "story" because they think the voters are rather stupid and childlike and a "story" sounds easier than a "narrative." But "narrative," like "framing," seems to refer to the overall structure of the message, while "story" works better to refer to more specific anecdotes, such as the dog-eating incident.
Anecdotes may stick in your head and get people talking, even if they are not true. And if people are going to question the truth of your anecdote, then you have a special problem with using the word "story." It's ambiguous. To "tell a story" is to lie.J.D. Vance did not mean that he was going to make things up to get media attention when he said "create stories," but he said 2 words that he's going to have to hear from his enemies as long as he stays in the game. He openly expressed his determination to lie, they will say.
As for Kamala, she picked an inopportune time to go big on the word "story." Bad luck to try to look good talking about your use of "stories" right when your side was busy equating "story" with "lie."
As for "story," the great English language word, it has meant truth and fiction all along. I know, because I've read the OED entry for "story." It's very long — a long story. Read it yourself or take my word for it.
I'll just resonate with my post title by cherry-picking an example from Dickens:
The unfortunate little victim was accordingly led below, after receiving sundry thumps on the head from both his parents, for having the wickedness to tell a story. C. Dickens, Sketches by Boz 1st Series vol. II. 304 (1836).
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curious about what is different between story and narrative?
how do english profs handle this? journalism schools?
When I defended depositions, I prepped my witnesses to be careful about ambiguous words like "story", as it opened them up for nasty cross examination. Another word to be careful about is "concern", as its multiple meanings are readily twisted.
Today's focus on campaign messaging is apt. The Dems seem to have concluded that they can run out the clock with messaging utterly devoid of the usual accompanying policy message.
It's just "good people like us don't support people like them." Maybe that's enough. Social desirability seems to be the most important thing for a lot of voters.
Sure, we get the difference. Stories are what Inga offers here, and narratives are from gadfly.
I think it is advisor looking for an useful synonym for "narrative" and, having found one, are ready to trounce the other side if they use it. Not sure why the word "policy" must be avoided by "politicians".
That's my narrative, and I'm sticking to it.
People remember stories. I got together with three of my law school classmates last night. We didn’t talk about proximate cause or Pullman abstention; interesting as those topics are. We talked about stories from law school.
One of my classmates was a part time instructor at University of Seattle Law School and his comments about the academy were certainly interesting. He taught con law. He now works as a volunteer for Legal Aid and he used to be the CEO of the Legal Services Corporation in DC. His clients have no idea who he is.
I think the use of "story" comes from a place of imperious snootiness. The little people need stories. I don't mean to send out a dog whistle to rhhardin, but some of the littlest little people call the soap operas they watch their "stories."
A storied conception, Now (pun intended]) that handmade tales are no longer viable.
Spin, narratives and LECTURES ...from the lying liars who lie on the democratic left.
Don't like Story? How about Spiel or Pitch.
https://babylonbee.com/news/15-seconds-into-kamala-harris-interview-oprah-decides-to-endorse-trump
The Progressive Left says, without evidence, that the 'Haitians eating dogs and cats' story isn't true.
While admittedly ambiguous "story" has been used for decades in reference to news reporting. "Get the story" is a stock line in every newsroom melodrama.
Seems like the issue wasn't "story" but rather "create." But who cares, actually? Nobody's choice of whom to vote for is going to come down to something this trivial.
"Stories" were what we used to call things we used to read in things we used to call "newspapers." Vance was talking about getting something into the media. Perhaps he understood that "narrative" now has the connotation of something fabricated or manufactured, so he fell back on "story." Not a wise choice in retrospect.
in this usage by editors I think 'story' implies facts where as 'narrative' would be what lazy reporter writes up?
I think it's university culture. When I was in grad school in the 90s, postmodernists (who weren't necessarily relativists) used 'story' and 'narrative' interchangeably.
Such an overused word. It's almost tag-worthy (like garner)
I think a narrative is a desired interpretation into which one tries to fit facts, while a story recounts facts with some selectivity to make them more interesting.
Regarding JD Vance…
There is a difference between “create a story” and “tell a story”. The latter includes facts.
To me, "narrative" suggests picking and choosing from factual information so as to bolster your point of view and/or diminish your opponent's point of view and "framing" is akin to "spin," and involves taking things out of context to effectively create a lie by presenting only part of a factual situation. "Story," on the other hand, involves making something up from whole cloth.
Bedtime stories: Listen to my story, then go to sleep.
"Create a story" is marketing talk. Very few people are going to be swayed by dry technical discussions or throwing around lots of numbers (other than a bottom line price). So selling your service or product requires telling a story that the potential customer can see herself in.
This is even more true in politics.
I'm still not sure why liberals think retelling "The Handmaid's Tale" is such a good choice of story, though.
Didn’t George Carlin do a bit about women calling their favorite soap operas “my stories”?
American Democracy had an unbroken history of honesty and truth-telling until these dastardly liars appeared.
I think for some people the word story has a connotation of feeling more weighty and personal than a word like narrative. So instead of saying, "Let me tell you what happened to me," someone might instead say, "Let me tell you my story." It does sound pretentious to me, and I hold it in similar regards to some of your noted words like liminal or garner, in that they are words frequently used to make someone or something sound more meaningful than it really is. Perhaps related to the mindset of the folks who use the word story like that, I have seen people online refer to "Main Character Syndrome." That describes a mindset some folks exhibit where they view their life as if they are the main character of a show or movie about their life, and become overly self-centered.
Yeah seems the people not making shit up are the governor, mayor and people of OHIO who call bullshit on "story" or "creating a story" like trump and Vance. There story is its flat out bullshit and you are causing chaos and dangerous with the lies. It is too bad though that dewine has no spine and speaks out of one side of his n
mouth while endorsing out of the other.He says "well Im a Republican" maybe in concern for the people he was put in charge of he should try being an AMERICAN instead of a pawn for a side.. weak ass people.
"This story is a story that is sadly not the only story..."
That's a word salad with extra dressing.
ojh and by the way ,after getting his lying orange ass handed to him in last debate(no the audience wasnt cheering(look up what "audience" means) trump has no choice but to accept debate, He is the one that needs it, If I were advising I would say ,the dude is just going to lie anyway so why waste your time with his, He is a nobody trying to stay out of jail. His people will believe anything he says doesn't have to be factual, you know trump won,2020 rigged, (courts called bullshit and most of his admin including the real lawfare dude Bill Barr)best economy in history, Mexico pay for wall, best Healthcare plan ever, infrastructure week, hire the best people ever and on and on...
Yes, if you could only remember that.
That includes the Democrat Mayor who is making $50,000 a year housing "migrants." You liar.
DD is back with more lies. Nothing new.
Kamala Harris has accepted an invitation from CNN for a second debate on October 23rd.
I am a Big (6ft tall) fan of Mexican telenovelas,
Which is Spanish for tele stories
Out comes the mouthpiece - down goes Inga! It's all over!
Interesting videos on X about Springfield Haitians' eating customs. One is a police call about geese apparently from a park. The other, in March, is the Springfield City Manager, reporting to the Council about complaints to his office of Haitians eating "domesticated" animals.
"There is a difference between “create a story” and “tell a story”. The latter includes facts."
I think "create a story" is business lingo. He has something of a business background. When you're talking about lying or writing fiction, you're more likely to use the verb "tell." To my ear "create a story" sounds strange and "tell a story" feels normal both for arranging facts in a compelling presentation and writing fiction and outright lying.
You say "'tell a story' includes facts." Not necessarily. Look at the Dickens quote in the post with the boy "receiving sundry thumps on the head from both his parents, for having the wickedness to tell a story."
Take special care to be accurate and honest when addressing the topic of honesty and accuracy.
Dog whistle to Rh. I see what Althouse did there.
"and gave his antagonists", chronic fabulists, "great material for characterizing him as a fabulist."
Well, how can you say you will, when you won't
Tell the truth, dinky, when you don't?
Let us know, dinky, how you feel
TELL THE TRUTH NOW, is Kamala real
Ah-hah, oh dinky don't, well dinky don't
dinky don't, no dinky don't, hey dinky don't
Say you will when you won't, ah-hah dinky don't
eat teh cat, eat eat teh cat, rich
Indeed, given the panic over her collapsing poll numbers. Apparently, the kamala + Stolen Valor Waltz's full blown adoption of Trump policies hasnt been enough to stop the bleeding.
Do I correctly remember my legal training (from TV shows) that when an accused testifies on the witness stand without the guiding questions from his own attorney, it's called testifying "in the narrative"? And it sort of absolves the attorney from responsibility for any of the accused known and expected perjuries?
J.D. Vance did not mean that he was going to make things up to get media attention
Actually, that's exactly what he said. He knows the stories about Haitians eating pets are lies. He should know that they are here legally. He just doesn't care.
Trump should accept an invitation from Fox.
DD 45 chooses to ignore such painful aspects of "the story".
You say "'tell a story' includes facts." Not necessarily. Look at the Dickens quote in the post with the boy "receiving sundry thumps on the head from both his parents, for having the wickedness to tell a story."
Using a one hundred fifty-year-old reference to British literature hardly demonstrates that "to tell a story" means telling a lie in American English.
But since you are hell bent on defending almost everything Trump and Vance say, you have to grasp at weak tea (and yes, I deliberately mixed metaphors).
You can't use Dickens, possibly the greatest storyteller in the English language, as an example of the danger of storytelling. He's trolling you. I never thought of it that way, but of course he invented trolling. He accurately identified and catalogued every other human trait, after all.
"[S]ome of the littlest little people call the soap operas they watch their stories."
Here's PROOF enough.
Isn't calling soap opera fans the "littlest little people" another example of "imperious snootiness"?
“I challenge you to go to Springfield… and tell me that these are stories made up by politicians” ~ JD Vance
The Republican governor of Ohio, who is born in Springfield and lives nearby it, says Vance and Trump have been lying about this city.
test
LOL
DeWine is another Bush/Rove uniparty guy and there isnt a single voter in Ohio that doesnt know that.
LLR-democratical Rich's gaslighting is failing faster than the commie kamala campaign!
The "debate" I want to see is Vance and Walz. I wonder if Walz will even show up, given his history with debates.
I think it is working. Now see if you can post the Indian Chief Head Television test pattern.
He knows the stories about Haitians eating pets are lies.
So the constituents who contacted him are liars? Is that what you're saying? Because all Vance was doing was relaying what his constituents were telling him.
Liar.
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