There's also this, from Michelle Goldberg: "[J.D. Vance is] a completely amoral sycophant without an independent political base, which I think is what Trump is probably looking for."
I guess it will be Vance, then, don't you think?
Since Trump, upon election, will be a lame duck, I think his prime concern should be who will be best able to carry Trumpism forward into the 2028 election and beyond. In that light, isn't Vance the right pick?
Do you realize that J.D. Vance is only 39?
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80 comments:
With each passing month, NYT columnists remind me more and more of the late-night, beer-fueled bullsheet dorm conversations we had in college four decades ago. We knew just enough to display a second rate understanding.
Whoever Goldberg and her ilk attacks the most is probably the best choice for Trump. Vance seems to draw the most ire from people like Goldberg and I think a good deal of that is that when Hillbilly Elegy was published a lot of progressives lauded the book. I bet if I dig deep enough I will find Michelle Goldberg praising J.D. Vance in no uncertain terms just 5-6 years ago.
With each passing month, NYT columnists remind me more and more of the late-night, beer-fueled bullsheet dorm conversations we had in college four decades ago. We knew just enough to display a second rate understanding.
Vance is probably the right pick. But I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump will elect someone I'm not expecting. Or even thinking about.
Speaking of being careful about the VP selection, how'd that Kamala selection work out for everybody?
from Michelle Goldberg: "[J.D. Vance is] a completely amoral sycophant without an independent political base, which I think is what Trump is probably looking for."
What a poorly-written sentence. Is Goldberg saying that Trump wants an amoral sycophant without an independent political base, or that he wants someone with an independent political base (who could potentially bring in votes that Trump otherwise wouldn't get - you know, like he did when he named Pence back on the first go-round)?
Also, why would we believe that any of these folks (or anyone writing for the NYT) has any insight into Trump's thought process? Particularly if their starting point is something as childish as "he wants an amoral sycophant" or "he wants a pretty boy with beautiful hair" or the like? It is like they don't want to be taken seriously as journalists.
I know when I'm looking for insight into Trump's campaign and thought process, my first stop is columnists at the NYT. The same ones who assured me that COVID lab leak, Hunter's laptop were conspiracy theories and the Russia dossier was a solid fact.
I always say the GOP should take advice from Michelle Goldberg. She has the interests of Americans from the Upper West Side at heart.
Trump hating liberals offer Trump free advice. Worth every penny…
Must be nice for these clown to be handsomely paid for what they’d be doing for free when they’re passing the ganja around…
Did anyone expect Trump to name Mike Pence as VP in 2016? Not many, if any. I suspect Trump's choice this time will be a complete surprise also.
Michelle Goldberg(D) is a loyal leftist Crook Biden supporter - thus an A-moral sycophant.
It will be BErgum. He's the throw-away candidate.
Gee Bret was Pence "good looking enough" to be VP for Trump? What a moronic analysis. In fact, when Goldberg is more astute at articulating a why a pick is a good fit for Trump it's time to hang up your pen and go home. Then stay home, Bret. Even as a token conservative you are a failure.
If Vance is so good as a prospective successor to pedjt as prez, why waste him as VP?
Van Buren
Bush
What are the odds?
John Henry
If I were Vance, I'd take "forgotten Civil War brigadier" and run with it. It's pretty cool. Pence got a lot of meme cred for looking like Race Bannon. God Emperor Trump was a meme rage. Stephens has given Vance a gift.
Who cares what these idiots think, they voted for Dementia Joe and Kamala the cackler.
After the official pronouncements that air and water were “safe” in East Palestine, Senator Vance went to a local creek, grabbed a long pole, and proceeded to stir up the mud at the bottom of the creek. The sickly iridescence that oozed to the surface and spread out quickly gave the lie to any notion that local waterways were safe. The man has good common sense.
As I’ve said before, I like the idea of a senator as VP. I think the Republicans will retake the Senate and having a right hand man who knows the ins and outs of the Senate, the key players, etc., would be a good thing. Moreover a Republican cannot win the election without carrying Ohio and Vance could very well help. The downside of Vance as VP is that his seat is not safe. If he becomes VP there’s a chance the GOP hold lose it.
"a completely amoral sycophant without an independent political base"
Even as prog posturing, this makes little sense. If Trump covers most GOP constituencies, why should a VP have an "independent" political base? Did Kamala "<1% early dropout" Harris have one?
Why sycophant? Vance is one of the few politicians who can articulate his own thoughts very clearly and takes positions for his own reasons. Compared to to Kamala running with Joe after accusing him of racism, how "amoral" can he be?
Unless Vance were to turn the Senate Presidency into the equivalent of lbj's senate majority leadership.
Senate president/vp is not term limited. He could serve 4 years under pdjt, then 8 years under the successor. (and 8 more under the next prez?)
Look what lbj accomplished in 10 years as majority leader. An office that in 1950 had even less power or standing than vp. By 1960, some argue, it was even more powerful than the presidency.
That's the vision I'd like to see for whoever is vp.
Not that is the one I expect to see. But a boy can dream, can't he?
John Henry
I predict Trump will make Vance shave, then give the job to Burgum.
Nothing like listening to two columnists who have gotten everything about Trump and his supporters wrong over the past near decade since Trump came down the escalator in Trump Tower. I watched JD Vance on Fox News this morning and found him a quite compelling choice for vice president. Unlike Goldberg and Stephens, Vance comes from abject poverty. Unlike Stephens and Goldberg, Vance joined the military and attended Yale Law School. He is a best-selling author who wrote about growing up poor in the Midwest (the forgotten folks who overwhelmingly support Trump). He is in an interracial marriage and the father of three young kids. He is a recent convert to Catholicism who can speak eloquently on faith. I would have hoped for Youngkin or Desantis, but, after watching the Fox interview, I think Vance would make a great running mate.
Michelle Goldberg obviously has not the foggiest regarding J.D. Vance or Kamala Harris.
If both Bret Stephens AND Michelle Goldberg are against him, maybe he's a GOOD choice.
related: The WSJ ran an editorial yesterday about This His VP Pick Is Watershed for Trump
They STATED that Trump (in their RINO minds) should:
a) pick Nimarata Randhawa (alias: Nikki Haley) as VP
b) concede the nomination to Nimarata, so that SHE can:
c) concede the race to WHOMEVER the DNC decides to emplace in power
they felt by doing so the US could Get On with THE IMPORTANT JOB of starting WWIII with russia and china
Quaestor: "Michelle Goldberg obviously has not the foggiest regarding J.D. Vance or Kamala Harris."
You could have stopped right here: "Michelle Goldberg obviously has not the foggiest"
VP's being elected President immediately after the term of the President they served under is exceedingly rare, especially in this situation where the terms are non-consecutive. Cleveland wasn't renominated and didn't get his VP (Adlai Stevenson I) elected following his second term. The only VP to be elected immediately after his term in office without serving as President due to vacancy of that office since the 22nd Amendment was GHWB. You could make the argument that Trump's VP might serve out the two term cycle that has been common since the 22nd but that's complicated by the terms being split. Trump's VP might be the favorite to win the nomination in 2028 but I wouldn't be picking a VP based the assumption they would be the favorite to be elected President in 2028.
"[J.D. Vance is] a completely amoral sycophant without an independent political base, which I think is what Trump is probably looking for."
Insurance against kinetic action.
I want to see Tim Scott to further divide the black vote or DeSantis to set the table for the 2028 race, but neither of those things is likely.
I think Vance is too new and in his Senate race he said too many of the kind of cringe-worthy things a politician says when they don't believe in their position but are taking it anyway because a focus group told them to (which I suppose means I agree with Goldberg).
Tulsi Tulsi
She's my gal
If he won't pick her
No one shall
rehajm said...Trump hating liberals offer Trump free advice. Worth every penny…
I laughed when I saw the Times link. These people who don't like Trump, don't want him to win, and both hate and disrespect his supporters are going to tell Trump what he should do to win!? Sure...
I hear some of those Civil War brigadiers were Very Fine People.
I don't think it will be Vance, and I hope it's not. The optics in this twisted age would be suboptimal for Independents, but I also think he's going to be more important in the Senate.
I would think that Trump would have sworn off of VP's with names ending in '{vowel}-nce'.
The NYT has turned into Baghdad Bob.
Yes, he is the right pick
Tulsi would be an amazing pick.
Trump should do it. She is well spoken, and even though the extremist left HATE her - moderate democrats might find the pick compelling.
I'm rooting for Tulsi.
Since Trump, upon election, will be a lame duck, I think his prime concern should be who will be best able to carry Trumpism forward into the 2028 election and beyond. In that light, isn't Vance the right pick?
It will more likely be the opposite.
Trump will pick someone who will do a good job and not be particularly interested in making this a career move.
Trump is not a politician. Politicians are different from normal people. They are more focused on alliances and the next election.
Trump gets things done. He will not be thinking about 2028. He will be thinking about actually fixing the mess that Biden has created.
People like us who are so focused on the political game and talk about politics all day keep projecting our wishes and views on Trump. It is why everyone on this board is generally wrong about Trump all of the time.
"Four Columnists Rate the Field"
Isn't the better descriptive of this group when it comes to Trump "calumnyists"?
Calumny is technically the act of a person falsely accusing another person of a crime. However, the common definition of calumny means the act of maliciously (i.e. with the intent to do harm) misrepresenting someone's conduct to harm that person's reputation.
Said Bret Stephens, in "Which V.P. Pick Will Help Trump Win? Four Columnists Rate the Field" (NYT).
There's also this, from Michelle Goldberg: "[J.D. Vance is] a completely amoral sycophant without an independent political base, which I think is what Trump is probably looking for."
The only reason to start a discussion about what these two people think is to make fun of retards.
They are just so stupid and venal.
If Trump wants to go with someone who can actually be President he should go with Bergum or Youngkin.
If he insists on going with a sycophant he should go with Stefanik.
I hear that my main man Jamaal is looking for work....
The only conceivable person on the right with an “independent political base” would be Haley. That’s a non-starter, as is the notion that that’s what Trump is looking for.
All you touting Gabbard -- I understand her positive appeal, but on the negative side how would she not be assassination/impeachment assurance? Despite her recent moves, the bad guys will definitely think they can roll her, get her back to her D political roots.
AMDG: "If Trump wants to go with someone who can actually be President he should go with Bergum or Youngkin.
If he insists on going with a sycophant he should go with Stefanik."
He needs to go with someone who can and will fight back against your GOPe/democratical alliance.
Vance and, I suppose, Gabbard, are the only two firethrowers in the field that could be MAGA stand-ins without being related to DJT. My two cents is on Vance. (That's all I can afford to lose)
roger: "I hear that my main man Jamaal is looking for work...."
I'm looking up the age limitations for joining the fire department as we speak.....
I think his prime concern should be who will be best able to carry Trumpism forward into the 2028 election and beyond.
I agree with the professor, and believe Vance is the choice for that job. Unfortunately, I don't believe Trump feels there's enough room in Trumpism for anybody other than Trump. I worry this one of those times where his ego gets in the way of making the correct decision.
”He looks like a forgotten Civil War brigadier."
Three Civil War generals from Ohio — Hayes, Garfield, and Benjamin Harrison — became Presidents. Just sayin’
J. D. Vance as a "forgotten Civil War brigadier general"? That would describe a lot of once and future politicians who served. Many of them weren't very goo
As for the Kackler who works for Joe Biden. Would Bret Stephens describe her as a "camp follower" in the Civil War, serving the needs of the troops?
Carson is at the top of the list of possibilities. He has all of the qualities that Trump will be looking for. Competent. Low Key. Executive experience. Honest. Loyal. Brilliant. Successful. Zero chance to win the 2028 primary on his own without Trump's endorsement.
Vivek is currently the leading 2028 contender. He is Trump with better words. We have a primary now without Trump Vivek wins. This puts him at ~1% chance. Much more likely to be given an executive role in cleaning up/eliminating the FBI or EPA or some other malevolent DC group. If Trump picks him for VP then Vivek no longer needs Trump's endorsement in 2028. Trump loses all influence after his term.
Stefanik is a strong woman. Intelligent and politically effective. Not sure about her executive or management experience. This puts her right behind Carson. Her ability to win in 2028 without Trump will be the kicker. I don't think she could win without a Trump endorsement.
Tulsi Gabbard is a politician. She has some leadership experience in the Guard but I am not sure she has experience with massive complex problems that involve lots of people. She has zero chance on her own in a Republican 2028 Primary because of her political views. I don't think she could win with Trump's endorsement. This makes her more likely.
I don't know Burgham. But the more like Trump he is the less likely he will be the VP. He is apparently competent and effective as an executive and a billionaire. But Trump doesn't need Trump light as VP. Not sure how to rate him.
Not sure why Vance is even mentioned.
Kirk Parker said...
All you touting Gabbard -- I understand her positive appeal, but on the negative side how would she not be assassination/impeachment assurance? Despite her recent moves, the bad guys will definitely think they can roll her, get her back to her D political roots.
If Tulsi Gabbard was VP and Trump was assassinated I would expect her to react with the fury of 1000 suns. She already absolutely hates the warmongers and the deep state. In this scenario from what I know of everyone involved she would be my first pick.
When you are talking about assassination assurance you need to think about the situation the country will be in if Trump is assassinated.
The moment that news breaks millions of men grab guns and start heading towards DC. Mostly from the South and midwest. State Capitols all over the country will see people collect people who don't want to go all of the way to DC. So you have about 10-30 hours before they all get there.
At that point the DC bureaucracy is going to start holing up and seizing levers of power. Roadblocks will be set up and there will be a siege.
The Vice President is going to have to deal with a hostile DC police force and host of federal officers that will take the side of the bureaucracy. It would likely happen around the time that the FBI/CIA are slated for decimation. They would react to protect themselves.
The National Guard is going to be the only group that can balance that. I would pick someone who was influential with the National Guard. She is an officer in the guard.
Say what you will about Jamaal, the guy can bench 4 big plates, and that's not nothing.
Come on now Achilles, take a deep breath and rejoin us here in the real world...
Since Trump, upon election, will be a lame duck, I think his prime concern should be who will be best able to carry Trumpism forward into the 2028 election and beyond.
No!
Biden and the Democrats need to be punished and spanked hard in 2024. I know this gets said every damn election, but this campaign is more important than most. Having your opponent arrested and trying to remove him from the ballot is obscene.
The most important thing is winning 2024. I would not assume that Trump will win. He needs to fight hard.
In that light, isn't Vance the right pick?
Instead of planning for the 2028 election, Trump needs to win this one. In that light, Vance is a bad pick. Because he doesn't add any voters to the ticket. Trump doesn't need a Mini-Me. He needs somebody who will bring in undecideds and add votes.
Rubio should be the pick.
Here's what I wrote on one of the mushroom threads.
The problem with J.D. Vance is that he doesn't add any votes for Trump. All his fans are already in the tent. Trump's got a rock solid base. What he needs to do is reach out to non-fans and make inroads there. Rubio does that. Tim Scott also.
Even if somebody thinks Rubio is a "Washington insider," I don't think it's possible to reduce Trump's populist support. Trump is the ultimate outsider. What he needs to do is reassure undecided voters who are worried about him.
Rubio does that. He's got foreign policy chops, he's independent, and he can help with hispanic voters. I think Rubio on the ticket adds votes for Trump. And he'd be a good president if he needed to step up.
1. Rubio
2. Scott
3. Tulsi
4. Cotton
5. Vance
I think his prime concern should be who will be best able to carry Trumpism forward into the 2028 election and beyond.
As important as that may be, I think keeping the U.S. out of war and reigning in runaway deficits are more important issues.
Steve Krakauer posted this on Twitter/X yesterday:
Fun with URLs ahead of the Trump VP announcement:
- TrumpVance and TrumpScott both redirect to blank landing pages
- TrumpBurgum redirects to the main Trump website
- TrumpRubio is for sale
Make of that what you will...
Leftists lecturing the rest of us about what is and is not "amoral" or a "sycophant" are worthy of the most withering ridicule.
Vance is one of the most thoughtful right-leaning intellectuals in the past few decades. His "independent political base" is the lower 75% of white rural America, which is a formidable power even this far into the Great Replacement.
does it have to be
VP Right Now
why not do
VP TBA ?
and let 25A handle succession issues
does it have to be
VP Right Now
why not do
VP TBNL ?
and let 25A handle succession issues
We can thankfully stop reading after we see Goldberg's name.
Apart from crying about the imminent and eventual primary loss of convicted criminal, Jamaal Bowman, how many retractions is she up to now?
"Vance isn’t good looking enough for Trump. He looks like a forgotten Civil War brigadier."
Beards are hot now
And not to jump on the shallow NYT bandwagon
but Burgum's eyebrows annoy the shit out of me
I'd vote for 1000 beards before I'd vote for those damn eyebrows
Actually, Vance would be a better fit than Cotton
1. Rubio
2. Scott
3. Tulsi
4. Vance
5. Cotton
If Burgum is the pick, I predict crickets at the convention.
Vegas odds
Tim Scott: 4 to 1
J.D. Vance 11 to 2
Doug Burgum: 11 to 2
Marco Rubio: 8 to 1
Ben Carson: 10 to 1
Sarah Huckabee Sanders: 10 to 1
Tulsi: 12 to 1
Elise Stefanik: 14 to 1
Vivek: 25 to 1
Nikki: 25 to 1
DeSantis: 33 to 1
Dog Killer Noem: 33 to 1
Interesting that the reporters don't have Scott in the upper three, but the gamblers have Scott as the #1 guy.
Drago - who is this person who Trump should select?
JD Vance is too short to be President.
Put aside the bearded jowls, he’s too short for Trump.
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves: "Drago - who is this person who Trump should select?"
This is difficult as I have no idea the extent of behind the scenes discussions and understandings and agreements which make all the difference in the world.
I am left with superficial observer only impressions.
I said earlier Trump needs to go with someone who can and will fight back against GOPe/democratical alliance that AMDG adores so much.
However, since I still believe the GOPe/dem/deep state/lawfare crew will remove Trump from the campaign, the VP choice doesn't matter.
But if it did, Vivek, Carson, Gabbard immediately come to mind as people that wouldnt stick a knife in Trump's back. I'd like Vance to stay in the Senate to fight those battles there.
Achilles, ref your assassination scenario:
If the deep state kills Trump, they’ve got to have a plan for the VP more robust than “I hope she’s with us.”
Tulsi’s 1000 suns would blaze away in an undisclosed location. Unless she can do some superhuman social engineering on the people “protecting” her, she will have no effect on events.
And that’s the best-case scenario. Worst case is she gets zapped as part of a complex attack.
Same-same for the Speaker and the pro-tem, so the succession can go to some deep-state-loyal cabinet secretary.
The rest of your scenario is pretty sound. I think each state’s Guard would be used by their governor to support whichever side the governor’s on, federalization be damned.
Youngkin could probably be counted on to use the VA NG to finally support the Constitution for a change (ie avenge Trump).
The other southern Guards could then do a passage of lines through VA.
Wes Moore and MD? Hard to tell. He could talk himself into thinking that the rump deep state is the legitimate government. Or he could remember his oaths.
Lots of your overnight-arm-springing civilians, especially the vets, could attach themselves to the various NG units.
What about the regulars? Probably 3 million different interpretations of their oaths. In red states, state troopers could just seize all the arms rooms before commanders got thru the first O of the OODA loop. Then a loyalty test could be administered to see who’ll be kept in barracks and who would be allowed to join the march. Come to think of it, the same process would happen in the blue states.
Probably overall strategically easier for the deep state assassins to bust caps before the Trump II admin gets sworn in. Then they can hold a special House vote to either reelect the cocksuckers or vote in some unity ticket: Romney/Obama?
RLTW
JSM
JD Vance, Trump wants winners, people who know how to fight and win debates. I never thought of Vance as ugly, though maybe there is a hint of his mountain roots.
Vivek is the best choice. It would force the tech money to support Trump, because they can’t support dumb, that is a line in the sand for them. No comparison with Beiden or Kamala.
I wish professor Althouse had posted an official portrait of Senator Vance instead of only pics of the four NYT talking faces from the article, none of whom are all that handsome themselves tbh, (and certainly not at a show biz level) so that we poor readers could have something to compare to? And perhaps maybe even a dapper civil war brigadier as well, just to be complete? Just saying professor.
Would not be surprised if it's Devin Nunes.
Josephbleau: "Vivek is the best choice. It would force the tech money to support Trump, because they can’t support dumb, that is a line in the sand for them. No comparison with Beiden or Kamala."
Significant tech money has already moved to Trump. Vivek might help in that regard but its already happening and shocking the little lefty brains like Rich, Chuck, Dumb Lefty Mark as well as the DeSantis wannabe online influencers, like AMDG, who continue to hold out hope their GOPe/Dem lawfare alliance will drive Trump out of the race.
Neither DeSantis or Rubio should be on the list because of state residency rules. Efforts to work-around would be horrible distraction.
Burgum is a total disaster on Climate.
Adds most votes: Stefanik and Gabbard. Maybe Scott or Carson. There are more women voters than black voters.
Loyal Veep (in order): Carson, Stefanik, Vance, Noem, Gabbard, Scott
Likely to be effective: Noem, Vance, Gabbard, Stefanik, Carson
My preference: Vance, Stefanik, Noem, Gabbard
Reality: Gomer Pyle - Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!
JD Vance will appeal to working class voters all over the country given his background and life experience. Too few politicians understand how the real world works.
Saint Croix said...
Actually, Vance would be a better fit than Cotton
1. Rubio
2. Scott
3. Tulsi
4. Vance
5. Cotton
If Burgum is the pick, I predict crickets at the convention
If it is Rubio I predict boos.
Picking Scott instead of Carson would be a tragedy.
Cotton is wrong about too many things and stubborn about them.
Vance makes no sense.
john mosby said...
Achilles, ref your assassination scenario:
If the deep state kills Trump, they’ve got to have a plan for the VP more robust than “I hope she’s with us.”
Tulsi’s 1000 suns would blaze away in an undisclosed location. Unless she can do some superhuman social engineering on the people “protecting” her, she will have no effect on events.
That is the point. If Trump is killed it will be in some sort of “accident”or what they did to JFK.
If they have someone as VP they can work with they will try to brazen it out.
If they overtly take both Trump and the VP then they will fall.
"Would not be surprised if it's Devin Nunes"
Nunes would make an excellent President but he isn't a particularly good retail politician. He would make a great CIA director, though- the Deep State would be livid were Trump to do that.
Or, AG or FBI directors.
In two weeks Trump will be in prison. Choice of running mate will be the least of his concerns.
Three Civil War generals from Ohio — Hayes, Garfield, and Benjamin Harrison — became Presidents.
You forgot Ohio native U S Grant. McKinley was only a brevet major--at 23.
You better hope Trump is not sent to Rikers pending his appeals (btw, Rikers is a jail, not a prison). Putting an ex-president who is your political opponent running again for the highest office in the land is tantamount to tyranny. Civil War 2. And after those who did it, the patriots will come for those who supported it. Pussy communist.
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