June 26, 2024
"Despite their courage and great sacrifice, thousands of LGBTQI+ service members were forced out of the military because of their sexual orientation or gender identity."
"Many of these patriotic Americans were subject to a court-martial. While my Administration has taken meaningful action to remedy these problems, the impact of that historical injustice remains. As Commander in Chief, I am committed to maintaining the finest fighting force in the world. That means making sure that every member of our military feels safe and respected. Accordingly, acting pursuant to the grant of authority in Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution of the United States, I, Joseph R. Biden Jr., do hereby grant a full, complete, and unconditional pardon to persons convicted of unaggravated offenses based on consensual, private conduct with persons age 18 and older under former Article 125 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), as previously codified at 10 U.S.C. 925, as well as attempts, conspiracies, and solicitations to commit such acts under Articles 80, 81, and 82, UCMJ, 10 U.S.C. 880, 881, 882...."
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109 comments:
"That means making sure that every member of our military feels safe and respected."
There it is. Black and white. From the horse's mouth.
"Our military's primary job is making sure every member of military feels safe and respected, not fighting or winning wars."
Your honor, the defense of the United States rests...
It's very satisfying to see this made into a priority right now. I hope they 'put the hammer down' and keep it there, on all of these popular initiatives, until November.
Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense. -UCMJ
The purpose of military regulations is to maintain good order and discipline of the military, to promote military success against our enemies during war. Good order and discipline is also maintained during peacetime to maintain readiness for success in war. That the regulations change is reasonable, due to changes in societal norms over time. This allows for good order and discipline to continue despite societal changes.
The previously dishonorably discharged service members lost veteran's benefits, as well as being subjected to public ignominy, for their behavior against the regulations of the earlier time. Now their benefits can be accessed as honorably discharged (or at least pardoned) service members, and their public ignominy is recognized as a function of the earlier societal norms, allowing current service members to serve both honorably and effectively under the new regulations.
This change in regulations to allow homosexual service members was nothing, insignificant compared to integration of Black officers and integration or troops, or female sailors serving on warships at sea. The pardon of previously discharged homosexual service members is both fair and just.
I'm a conservative and voting for Trump, and I have absolutely no problem with this pardon.
Now let's get every one of the anti-vax dischargees cleared and reintegrated with no loss of service time, benefits, rank, or pay if they so desire.
I'm fine with the pardon, my problem is with the "LGBTQI+"
It was Ls, Gs, and Bs. And really just the Gs. No Ts, Qs, Is or +s have anything to do with it.
I'm to the right of Genghis Khan and also think this is long overdue. Don't see how it's a vote-grabber, though.
They were vulnerable to blackmail and hence a security risk.
In Greece, their armed forces have had difficulty fielding competent personnel, as Greeks are known to never want to leave their brother’s behind.
I've had my doubts regarding Biden's effective status as President of the United States, ergo I frequently refer to him as the Resident. Lately, these doubts are firming up into a certainty. This blanket pardon of who knows what disgusting perversity assures me that Biden hasn't any agency at all. He sits and often dozes at the Big Desk and scrawls whatever passes for his signature on anything placed under his nose like a witless automaton. If Biden had a working brain he'd know this sort of tomfoolery can only further alienate sensible Democratic voters, assuming there are any left, whom he desperately needs in November. Antagonizing them will send many to Robert Kennedy's camp, others to Trump, and most to disaffected apathy.
Consequently, one may soundly reason that the Chief of Staff Jeff Zients and the other White House puppeteers have seen the internal polling and have concluded the Biden Administration is utterly doomed, so they're looting the institution before the jig is well and truly up.
panderpanderpander
Now the vaxx discharges.
Blogger rhhardin said...
They were vulnerable to blackmail and hence a security risk.
That was also the reason James Webb was investigating people for homosexual activities in NASA in the 60's. I don't think 20 or 30 somethings of today appreciate how a person's life could unravel if their private homosexual activity became public. People would lose jobs, contacts, friends, and even family. This was at the height of the Cold War as well. The Soviets would absolutely blackmail someone to get information from NASA. I think young folks today assume it was some sort of cartoon-villain-like motivation. The inability to appreciate nuance and understand gradations is a hallmark of people with a worldview of any, insert buzzword of choice here (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia etc.) is doubleplusungood.
Many service members of alternative sexuality were "officially" dismissed on paper for reasons other than sexual orientation, although that was, in fact, the unstated reason. How are those veterans to demonstrate otherwise? Will straight veterans with similar discharges now challenge the dismissals on sexual grounds though the record shows other causes? The Biden decision seems to be similar to the Government/Social Media case in that too many people exist in the blanket group.
You run into problem in a military organization when you have men in charge of women, and Gays in charge of other Gays.
But I guess the military has learned how to adjust and control it. And of course, the Transgenders, the backbone of the US Military per General Millie Vanilli, don't have that problem.
I've decided that the more dysfunctional the US military is, the better for all of us. The more dysfucntional, the less powerful, and the less likely the power elite is to use it.
THe US Military isn't really there to defend the USA, its there to enforce the American Empire. And who cares about that? Right now, its invade the world, invite the world. Hopefully a crippled US military will cut down on the "invade the world" part.
"But I guess the military has learned how to adjust and control it."
They have not. It is a constant source of aggravation.
Our military is the weakest it's ever been.
White men don't want to be in this military and there's reasons they should not sign up.
Trump should officially change the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War.
We live in an upside down world where men skirts are giving orders to troops and we're supposed to believe it's all normal.
Biden can’t even get through a short ceremony honoring fallen soldiers without checking his watch.
No one gives a fuck what he pretends to believe.
There was never discrimination of trans/homosexuals, but rather of couplets and and other, or behaviors generally. However, the adoption of Rainbow banners and rhetoric is a hate crime targeting a minority under the social justice umbrella.
"Our military is the weakest it's ever been.
White men don't want to be in this military and there's reasons they should not sign up."
Our military of today isn't the one of tens of thousand of post-9/11 vengeful volunteers signing up to unload tons of whoop-ass on an adversary that hurt us. Those guys - like myself - are dead, severely disabled, or have long since quit or retired.
What we do have is a military filled with people that aren't motivated for the right reasons and certainly aren't ready to deploy in the way that will be necessary for the next major conflict, and that conflict is here.
I have zero faith in today's US military. I have zero faith in its leadership. I have zero faith in the makers of defense policy, whether they're elected or appointed.
We will lose the next major war. The nation is in no fit condition to fight it, nor is its government.
Sometimes, unfair rules exist, and the military might be been right to exclude servicemen for these reasons, but there was was significant animus in play, so I am in favor of the pardon and restoration of status.
Slow Joe, the silly sumbuck, is desperate for votes. Dr. Jill can see the writing on the wall. So you get stuff like this. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it wasn't glaringly obvious that Joe is trolling for votes. +
I've an acquaintance--the son of a friend. The young man joined the Navy was trained as a helicopter mechanic and was apparently pretty good at it. But he gained weight and couldn't meet the body mass and or fitness standards after about ten years of service. So the Navy discharged him When will Biden pardon those "tubbies" who got discharged?
Not to worry though for this particular kid. Went to college and got his engineering degree and works as an engineer.
We will lose the next major war. The nation is in no fit condition to fight it, nor is its government.
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It's going to be freaking hilarious watching the body bags pile up at Andrews and Dover Air Force bases.
How many were prosecuted under the UCMJ and are eligible for a pardon? I could be wrong but I believe most of them received an administrative discharge, an other than honorable conditions discharge which is the most severe kind you can get without a court-martial. I did 20 years, I don't remember anyone getting court-marshaled for being gay. May in the 50s and 60s they did.
There are real and material reasons of unit discipline and cohesion to have zero tolerance for sexual relationships between soldiers serving in the same unit. Doubly so for soldiers of different ranks, but some standards here are universal. Just like there are clear moral hazards that come into play once you have sex-integrated units, and the army has a clear reason and duty for minimizing those hazards once the civilian leadership has brought such units into being.
That's before we get into any of the specifics that the blanket pardon, is pardoning.
Oh well, ultimately I agree with the guy above that figures degradation of the American Army means degradation of the Global American Empire, and ultimately a domestic Praetorian Guard. If they want to let the camel move another foot into the tent that has nothing to do with the ability to kill their opponents while not being killed themselves, whatever.
'I have zero faith in its leadership.'
Traitor General 'I will consult with the Chinese' Milley unavailable for comment...
This means almost nothing. Homosexual behavior alone was almost never punished at courts-martial unless the defendant requested one in lieu of non-judicial punishment. Discharges were almost always “general discharges” which were not considered punitive, hence there is nothing to pardon. General discharges do not restrict any rights and were almost always later upgraded if so requested. The best that can be said about this presidential action is that it doesn’t cost the taxpayers anything. This is political grandstanding and pandering by Biden to his ignorant base.
There goes the recruiting quotas…down down down.
The male camaraderie of a deployed unit has been destroyed. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
This seems to cover consensual sex including between officers and enlisted in the same unit.
This is just the kind of thing a President leaving office would do.
Some things are fundamental to the military.
Start with "sacrifice". If you won't take one for the team (unit), there is no team. LGBTQ+ is about individual differences and "needs".
"Uniformity" is about more than clothing that you wear. It's also about your appearance, your behavior and the way you complete a task.
LGBTQ+ is group power for "special" individuals. It's kinda like a union. Unions are not permitted in the military. It's all about the chain of command - take it or leave it.
An important part of basic training is (or was) stripping individuals or their differences and making soldiers of them.
Enlistment standards have always excluded people with all kinds of conditions outside those standards: hearing, vision, weight and endless medical and behavioral issues. It is very expensive to take on people who will require exceptional care and are limited in duties they can perform.
"Don't ask - Don't tell" isn't a perfect solution but it's one that can work. In my time, I had 3 or 4 close friends who were gay. But, more importantly, they were outstanding NCOs and Officers and damn good people.
Anyone paying attention knew they were gay but no one even "wondered" out loud. They enjoyed the friendship, admiration and support of just about everyone that knew them.
One rainbow patch might have invited a modicum of sympathy but the bottom line is they would become a distraction, both personally and professionally.
OTOH, "Don't ask - Don't tell" is impossible when it comes to trannies. A sane Commander-in-Chief would discharge all of them immediately. Honorable discharge. Thank you for your service. Please contact the VA for any benefits you may be eligible for.
"You know what they say about submariners--a hundred and forty guys go under, and seventy couples come up."
That's not true. Some of us like threesomes!
(From Mary Roach's book "Grunt," a joke told to her by some submariners.)
On the substance, I agree that it's the right thing to do, and will probably not have much effect on the services or the election.
Ride Space Mtn: "There it is. Black and White. From the horse's mouth."
Well said, considering Article 125 of the Manual of Court Martial concerns sodomy. The text of the statute says that any service member who engages in an unnatural form of carnal copulation with another individual belonging to the same sex or the opposite sex, OR AN ANIMAL, will be held guilty of sodomy.
As a nation, we can no longer tolerate ANY forms of discipline anywhere.
Good to be old!
I'm reminded of that line from Braveheart when Edward Longshanks is contemplating who to send to meet with William Wallace:
But who will go to him? Not I. If I fell under the sword of that murderer, that might be my head in a basket. And not my gentle son. The mere sight of him would only encourage the enemy to take over the whole country. So whom do I send? Whom do I send?
We're basically inviting aggression from our enemies.
What Obambi wants she gets.
What Obambi wants she gets.
Including raising the Rainbow banner, a hate crime targeting a minority, over the White House in solidarity with his albinophobic ancestors, past, liberal, and progressive.
I've decided that the more dysfunctional the US military is, the better for all of us. The more dysfucntional, the less powerful, and the less likely the power elite is to use it.
Fuck that.
If we're going to bother about being able to defend ourselves (I believe that's the first order of business for our government), we need to have the BEST military on the planet.
The military makes war, it does not make policy. Maybe the commenter should worry more about our dysfuntional power elite.
Article 125 of the Manual of Court Martial concerns sodomy. The text of the statute says that any service member who engages in an unnatural form of carnal copulation with another individual belonging to the same sex or the opposite sex, OR AN ANIMAL, will be held guilty of sodomy.
Equal and indiscriminate, rather than equitable (e.g. "=") and inclusive.
Second try here.
"You know what they say about submariners--a hundred and forty guys go under, and seventy couples come back up."
That's not true! Some of us like threesomes.
(From Mary Roach's book "Grunt," a joke told her by some submariners.)
On the substance, I don't think it will affect the services much, or the election.
The next apology tour will for affirmative discrimination of citizens, males, females, People of Peach, albinos, babies, etc.
Figures...
https://legalinsurrection.com/2024/06/in-latest-blow-to-military-effectiveness-u-s-navy-will-no-longer-require-sailors-to-pass-physical-fitness-tests/
Fatty fatty 2X4 couldn't get thru the gun turret door.
We haven’t won a War since World War 2. Korea was a tie. Nam was a loss. Gulf War 1 was a tie. Gulf War 2 was a loss. Afghanistan was a loss.
You don’t go to war unless you are attacked. We were attacked on 9/11 by Saudi Wahhabists.
Instead of going into Saudi Arabia and killing the Wahhabists and wiping out their maddrasses, we spent 20 years Nation Building in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Who would join the military nowadays other than people who want desk jobs?
Pander much?
"safe and respected" ???
Obviously, Biden has never been in the military.
"If we're going to bother about being able to defend ourselves (I believe that's the first order of business for our government), we need to have the BEST military on the planet."
I appreciate the logic, but the "IF" is bridging a gap between what we ought to do and what we are actually doing larger than it can reasonably be expected to bear.
As we're going to use our military as an affirmative action program for hostile non-Americans and a money-laundering instrument for overseas investments by the political class and then insult-to-injury as justification for why we have to import millions of barbaric-at-the-best-of-times-people whose homes we have just destroyed making the world safe for pride parades in hot sandy places, then we (the actual American people) need this force to be as fangless as possible.
Who would join the military nowadays other than people who want desk jobs?
Mentally disturbed people who want the taxpayers to pay for the surgical mutilation of their genitals.
This is just the kind of thing a President leaving office would do.
-------
We're going to see a lot more of this over the next four months. It's going to be a feeding frenzy of red meat thrown to the left wing base.
Send Team clipboard to the front lines.
Just out of curiosity, can someone predict which regulations under today’s UCMJ I can safely violate?
I know a lot of sailors who were disciplined or discharged tor marijuana related offenses back in the 70’s, have they been compensated?
Additionally, even though I’m not a member of any currently recognized diversity group,
I can guarantee that I had my feelings hurt on multiple occasions during basic training.
I’m sure it’s safe to say that isn’t happening today.
"If we're going to bother about being able to defend ourselves (I believe that's the first order of business for our government), we need to have the BEST military on the planet."
We're not using our military TO DEFEND ourselves. We're using it to maintain an American Empire all over the world. And we're letting millions of foreigners invade us accross and open southern border and a refusal by Biden to enforce the immigration laws.
That's reality. But if some want to live in a fantasy world where the USA is just "defending the USA" let them. If we just want to "defend the USA" we don't need to send $200 Billion to the Ukraine, or have military bases all over the world. Nor do we need to have troops in Syria or supply bombs to Israel or sabre rattle at Iran or screech insults at China over Taiwan.
Last time I looked we had over 10,000 nukes, and we're 5000 or so miles from Moscow and 5000 miles from Peking. No one is going to attack us. We're not Defending the USA by having troops in Germany.
Our neo-con elite is using our military to engage in games that have zero to do with "Defending the USA".
If we're going to bother about being able to defend ourselves (I believe that's the first order of business for our government), we need to have the BEST military on the planet.
We can defend OURSELVES perfectly well with the National Guard/Air National Guard plus the unorganized militia, which constitutes an armed force larger than the rest of the world's armies put together. Sure, we ordinary gun owners are not fit or well trained, but we can put rifles in the hands of 100 million men if needed, and tens of millions of us are veterans and/or hunters who have the equipment and skills to take down large mammals from hundreds of yards away.
Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide. -- Abraham Lincoln.
We haven’t won a War since World War 2.
============
did West win WW2?
more like Stalin used West to defeat Germany and Japan.
nicely done by kindly smilin Uncle Joe.
all it accomplished was German land conquest in East Europe were given over to USSR
We haven’t won a War since World War 2.
============
did West win WW2?
more like Stalin used West to defeat Germany and Japan.
nicely done by kindly smilin Uncle Joe.
all it accomplished was German land conquest in East Europe were given over to USSR
A small correction/reminder from me…
A very small handful of my usual tormentors here regularly claim that once upon a time I had blandly stated a desire to “drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers.” That’s essentially untrue, but worth revisiting in the context of this blog post.
My original comment was that “I want to drive that wedge between Althouse and her [TrumpWing] readers.” What was “that” wedge? At the time, the context was the continuing fallout after the last of the trio gay-rights SCOTUS cases; Lawrence, Windsor and Obergefell. I had been a vocal critic of all three decisions; Althouse liked the outcomes well enough to issue her unforgettable bit of taunting, “It’s over. You lost. Get over it.”
As we got into the 2016 campaign and Trump was increasingly giving license to his supporters’ most antisocial impulses, I foresaw the possibility of Althouse’s (nuanced, to be sure) pro-gay rights orientation and the (decidedly not nuanced) antigay prejudices of Trump fans.
It isn’t a perfect dichotomy. Trump, as Althouse famously observed, was in truth “Pro-gay and being cagey about it.” With that, I agreed with Althouse and I said so. I just didn’t want to help. I didn’t want to offer any understanding. I wanted to drive the wedge between the most socially conservative, aggressively repressive elements of Trump’s base on one side and any sort of expression of pro-gay understanding by Trump himself (cheered on by Althouse) on the other side.
The foregoing comments display a bit of what I’m talking about. A small number of Trump fans expressing disinterest in old-fashioned gay-bashing, while a greater number would seem to have no support or sympathy for a Trump who is “pro-gay and being cagey about it.”
And if you haven’t discerned it by now, dear readers, this is still a particular kind of wedge that I still want to drive; if not between Althouse and her readers then certainly between Trump and his low-information supporters.
Shorter LLR-democratical And Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasist Chuck: It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.....
LOL!!!!
What an amazingly amusing line of BS from Chuck to try and cover his previous lines of BS!! But as with the turtles, its just BS all the way down!
The best part of LLR-democratical Chuck's cringey, weird and disturbed post today? His complete and hilarious misreading of the Trump supporters from 2015/16 carries over to today....9 years later!! He hasn't learned a thing!
So funny and entertaining!
Grist for the Debate mill. 57 comments -- similar assessment number 25?
If only real life were the same as what's put on paper, huh?
LGBTQ+, AOC, BLM, DEI, AI.... GIGO GIGO GIGO.
Blogger Reddington said...
I'm a conservative and voting for Trump, and I have absolutely no problem with this pardon.
Biden's not interested in justice.
Why'd he wait for the election?
He wants the push-back.
Don't give it to him.
--- this is still a particular kind of wedge that I still want to drive;
Hey Mon, you know you bein red by Noo York Tize, Wapoo, Byden Fam-i-ly!
Sock it to em mon! Yu makin da his - try mon!!
Why is homosexual misconduct worthy of a pardon, but not heterosexual misconduct?
Good on him
AI is Anthropogenic Intelligence. Don't let Andrea steer you otherwise.
... Alexa, stop spying on me.
"As Commander in Chief, I am committed to maintaining the finest fighting force in the world."
Yeah, right. Or at least, the finest fighting force that tucks their balls up into their ass-crack and dances like a little girl.
Hassayamper said, Who would join the military nowadays other than people who want desk jobs?"
Go watch a commissioning ceremony at one of our state universities that still has an NROTC or ROTC Unit, and look at those young men and women, and see if you believe it's only people who want desk jobs. That's not who they are. They're 22 year-olds who are true patriots and who want to serve their country. They're in outstanding physical condition, and they have open faces and minds. Some of those new officers had enlisted moms or dads, and some are the first generation to serve. They worked harder than any of their university cohorts to combine STEM majors, 4 year graduation timelines, 5:00 a.m. PRT in all kinds of weather, and extra military classes and training. And they're very aware that they're entering the military at a time when their lives are at considerable risk because of the increased possibility of real war, with sub-par or old fighting equipment (ships/subs/tanks, whatever), and they do it anyway. Get to know some of them. You'll be impressed. We're sitting at our desks. They're training. Their leadership has some real problems, but don't underestimate the young fighting cadre.
"If we're going to bother about being able to defend ourselves (I believe that's the first order of business for our government), we need to have the BEST military on the planet."
What exactly do "we" need to be defended against? I keep hearing how wonderful it is that all these generations of soldiers have defended our freedom. What the fuck was "our freedom" doing in Europe, Africa, and Asia? We had two nice, big oceans between us and the rest of the world, so our wonderful military came up with ICBMs. If they were actually supposed to "defend" the US, they could skip the Navy and the Air Force altogether and just send the Marines to the border. I guess the Army could support them with interpretive dance or something.
RCOCEAN II:
THe US Military isn't really there to defend the USA, its there to enforce the American Empire.
em·pire noun
1. an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly especially an emperor or empress: "the Roman Empire"
2. a large commercial organization owned or controlled by one person or group: "her business empire grew"
3. a variety of apple.
You are delusional.
"Why is homosexual misconduct worthy of a pardon, but not heterosexual misconduct?"
Because you're not supposed to ask and they're not supposed to tell you about the double-standard. One group's extra-marital affairs are deleterious to "unit cohesion", and the other's are a part of their uptwinkled lifestyle.
Fuck this gay earth. Literally.
Mr. Wibble:
"It's going to be freaking hilarious watching the body bags pile up at Andrews and Dover Air Force bases."
No, it's really not.
Seriously, what the fuck?
this gay Earth
gay (adj.)
late 14c., "full of joy, merry; light-hearted, carefree
If only.
So, some here are saying that dishonorable discharges and courts martial didn't happen because of homosexuality but only because of improper conduct - fraternization and so forth. If that's true, then I can't support the blanket person, because fraternization is still improper conduct no matter who does it.
But if those people are wrong and some WERE discharged just for being gay, not for anything they actually did (I mean, being out of uniform by wearing some kind of pride insignia or something wouldn't result in a discharge, I wouldn't think - just some lesser disciplinary action, so again that wouldn't require a pardon) then I'm fully in favor of a pardon for those people.
They were vulnerable to blackmail and hence a security risk.
Yes, normalize everything, every sexual orientation, not just the politically congruent flavor of the day. Lose your Pro-Choice religion.
The problem is that the certain knowledge that we will lose the next big war will not be enough to keep us from starting it. Imperial Japan knew that if they started a war with the United States, defeat was, barring some miracle, a certainty. Yet they could not back down.
This has nothing to do with the pardon, which is fine, it has to do with the many other ways the military makes clear how they feel about the traditional demographic that provides recruits.
Sexual orientations (e.g. transgenderism, sadomasochism, pedophilia) are not self-evident. Perhaps Biden meant realized orientations a la realized [capital] gains. Why else would he discriminate?
I can guarantee that I had my feelings hurt on multiple occasions during basic training.
Isn't that the point of basic?
We haven’t won a War since World War 2. Korea was a tie. Nam was a loss. Gulf War 1 was a tie. Gulf War 2 was a loss. Afghanistan was a loss.
Korea was a tie because Truman had a bigger woody for MacArthur than he did for the aggressors. Actually, it's probable there would have been no war in Korea, if Truman's administration hadn't declared that we had no interests in Korea. NOT a military tie; more like a political loss.
Our war in Vietnam was NOT a military loss. Check with Gen Giap. He was astounded when the US declared defeat after wiping-out his forces during Tet. Sane leadership in Washington and sane rules of engagement in the field could have led to a much different outcome.
Need I mention the political decisions that involved the US there, in the first place. Sympathy for France trying to re-establish its colonial empire in Indochina?
The mindset that all commies are the same and the only good ones are dead? I believe Ho was more patriot than commie. The Vietnamese probably feared and hated the Chinese more than western democracies. Better thinking in Washington might have gained us an ally, instead of an enemy. Look at Vietnam, now. Look like an oppressive, social and economic shithole to you?
Gulf I - Collin Powell got cold feet when the road was clear all the way to Baghdad.
Gulf II - BIG mistake not taking out Shia cleric al-Sadr. We came, we conquered, we retreated.
If you think Military Intelligence is an oxymoron, what would you call intelligence in Washington?
RCOCEAN II:
THe US Military isn't really there to defend the USA, its there to enforce the American Empire.
************
An "Empire" where Japan and Korea don't want us to leave, where our "client states" in NATO don't even pay their fair share of the military expenses, and where the US doesn't control any of those countries' political parties, elections or governmental bodies.
Some "empire".
Our military veterans get one day of remembrance, while ”PRIDE” gets one month.
This is NOT a serious country.
Mr. Wibble has gone full-Wobble.
Medical News today:
"A person living with diabetes may be interested in joining the United States Armed Forces. However, the U.S. military currently considers diabetes to be a disqualifying health condition."
[Note this includes Type II diabetes.]
Now compare the mental, physical and medicinal needs of a diabetic with someone who has undergone a sex change.
Our current military seems a LOT more concerned with pandering to the LBTQ+ than combat effectiveness.
I left "T" out of LGBTQ+. Since "T" is the source of my concern, I apologize.
Almost all the men in my family joined the military since my great-grandparents immigrated to the United States. The missions I had as an 18 to 21-year-old were far beyond any responsibility or experience I could’ve had otherwise. That experience also helped pay for my chemistry degree. We all knew there were gays in the ranks. No one said anything as long as they kept their sex life to themselves.
Gays ruin everything when they are flamboyant. They ruined my Episcopal Church. They ruined the military. They ruined the Trans debate.
I have no respect for the military (thankful my boys didn’t join), my lost Episcopal Church, or any other institution that flies the gay flag.
We're not using our military TO DEFEND ourselves. We're using it to maintain an American Empire all over the world.
Our military is currently forbidden from domestic operations.
Every country acts in its own best interests. When countries tell the the US to remove its military, the US does so.
Military bases abroad contribute to defense of allies; they increase the likelihood of front lines being far away from the homeland; they discourage allies from stirring the embers of old conflicts.
Do you think China has grown more adventurous since the US left bases in Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan????? It's just Japan and the ROK now and the minute we look like a weak partner those countries will be forced into new accommodations by China.
Do US defense industries profit greatly from the needs of the US military (and its allies)? Of course. They do need supervision but we need what they sell, too.
OTOH, I guess we'll all be fine if we just sing, "Imagine".
Peace.
Alrighty then--I've tried to post this twice already.
'You know what they say about submariners? A hundred and forty guys go under, and seventy couples come up.'
"That's not true! Some of us like threesomes."
(As told to Mary Roach and used in her excellent book 'Grunt' about military medicine.)
Alrighty then--I've tried to post this twice already.
'You know what they say about submariners? A hundred and forty guys go under, and seventy couples come up.'
"That's not true! Some of us like threesomes."
(As told to Mary Roach and used in her excellent book 'Grunt' about military medicine.)
I’m a former marine sergeant, Vietnam era. I knew guys back then who happened to be gay. So what. They were good marines and sailors. They did their jobs. If you didn’t know them personally you wouldn’t know they were gay. As long as people do their job and keep their hands to themselves their sexuality is their business not the government. And no, I’m not gay. Been married to the same female person since 1978. Never slept with a guy. Never wanted to.
"As long as people do their job and keep their hands to themselves their sexuality is their business not the government."
I think a lot of people would agree. Don't know how it works in the military these days, but the Alphabet People don't seem to be in favor of a "keep it to themselves" attitude.
here's a serious question for you all..
I know we're all old (well, most all of us), but do ANY of you know anyone joining up Today?
That is, in the 6 months?
If so, i'm Very Curious WHY they signed up?
Anyone? Kids? Grandkids? friends kids? people you work with's kids?
I used to know a LOT of ROTC's and quite a few noncoms..
But that was all in the distant past (at LEAST 10 years ago)..
what i'm asking is: why would you join up.. NOW?
Anyone with any data?
About half the people I knew who were thrown out of the Navy for being your basic dirtbags were homos.
Since homos make up <10% of the population- draw your own conclusions.
The first gay I knew thrown out for being gay was in boot camp. He wasn't a dirtbag. Hadn't yet had time to become one. However, he was one of the many who received lots of coaching in order to get a GCT/ARI that just barely allowed them to enlist. My recruit company lost 3 people in 1973 because they were massively less useful than a box of rocks. If he and another recruit in the holding company hadn't been caught in flagrante delicto they'd have been thrown out for other reasons sooner or later.
First ship I was stationed on had a midnight marauder who liked to feel people up at night. I had a middle rack. When I yelled, my shipmate in the lower bunk slashed out with his knife he kept under his pillow and just missed him. I reported it to the quarterdeck. A few weeks later a "drink sailor" managed to fall down 4 decks on 4 separate ladders. Starting in deck berthing. He tried to claim a few guys were punching him and threw him down the ladders- but 20 witnesses swore at NJP he fell down all on his own. He was transferred off the ship and the midnight feel ups stopped... What a startling coincidence that was, wasn't it?
gilbar said...
here's a serious question for you all..
I know we're all old (well, most all of us), but do ANY of you know anyone joining up Today?
That is, in the 6 months?
My son was in ROTC before the covidiocy started. Since then, I've known no one who has joined. And no veteran who is recommending to anyone that they do join. And that no veteran includes me and 3 sons and one daughter-in-law. Counting the youngest as a vet though he's still on active duty.
It's why enlistments are down, way down.
Overall a good move, but . . .
My Inner Attorney wonders how they'll treat the predictable claims for full back-pay from the day of discharge 20 or 30 years ago to today, or if the actual wording of the pardon precludes that.
NKP: "Our war in Vietnam was NOT a military loss. Check with Gen Giap. He was astounded when the US declared defeat after wiping-out his forces during Tet."
We were winning, which must have scared the American powers of that day, and so they quickly declared our loss and pulled out.
Which really does work out to be a loss.
Discretionary Code of Military Justice (DCMJ) a.k.a. social justice anywhere is injustice everywhere.
This should encourage the lawyers to start class action lawsuits for back pay for everyone discharged. Way to go Joe.
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Imagine that the military defined illegal sexual activity in ways that did not distinguish between same sex and opposite sex misconduct. Instead, it proscribed acts undermining group cohesion and acts where voluntariness was absent or doubtful, such as power imbalances or unwanted advances.
That's 95 percent of the sexual conduct that got people in trouble over the last century. Now, pardon all the gays, and ignore the heteros. Seems wrong to me.
What would have been justified would be a pardon application process that allowed victims of what we now perceive to be injustice to get a pardon.
Instead, Biden is essentially valorizing homosexuality, pasting a halo on conduct that often damaged the military.
"When countries tell the the US to remove its military, the US does so."
So all Assad has to do to get us off of his oil fields and wheat growing region is to ask nicely? The whole basis for our invasion of Syria was a "National Security Letter" signed by Obama. They had never done anything to us but sit on a highly valuable square on the chessboard.
And what about Iraq? They just asked us to leave.
"and where the US doesn't control any of those countries' political parties,"
LOL. L oh fucking l.
I guess I shouldn't laugh, our media works so hard at keeping us ignorant of what is really going on, people can't be blamed if they don't have time to chase down the truth of what is going on. Who recently won the election in Spain, and who actually got to form a coalition and take power? Hint: the party that got the most votes opposed US policy in Ukraine, and the party that took power actually had to pardon a bunch of people who had been charged with trying to break off a region of Spain illegally. You now, insurrectionists, in order to cobble together a majority to keep the largest party, which was anathema to the US, out of power.
Steve McIntyre has done great work showing that the "chemical attack" in Syria was a false flag intended to provide a pretext for an invasion that the US wanted all along. One of the goals was to clear the way for an NG pipeline to Turkey, supplanting Nordstream. But not an Empire.
Try to buy oil without first coming to the US to buy dollars to pay for it. It's a global system of tribute. We traditionally have relayed Saudi Arabia for this favor with military protection. There are those who claim that because of the benefits of the dollar as the world's reserve currency, our military is cheap at the price.
What nation honors a request to leave by a country that it's in armed combat with? You got a list, imTay?
Blogger gilbar said...
here's a serious question for you all..
I know we're all old (well, most all of us), but do ANY of you know anyone joining up Today?
That is, in the 6 months?
I have nephew who enlisted three years ago. He made sergeant this year. He's 11B grunt infantry, and having the time of his life. Just got back from deployment to Estonia over the winter. He wanted to go to Ranger school, but got seriously injured in the train up.
He doesn't say anything about the woke stuff, because, well, he's surrounded by other dudes, and they just want to break stuff and shoot guns. If it keeps going this way, he's going to be in for a long while.
I was in the Army for 26 years, active and reserve, and I do not recall anyone prosecuted under Article 125. If anyone was put out, they used some other reason.
There was one Colonel, an Air Force guy who was head of USAFE Intelligence in 1992, that they caught having relations with other guys in the Ramstein library. I believe they just relieved him, and made him retire.
Gilbar, my son was just commissioned as a Naval Ensign. He and all his recent co-commissioned Ensigns and Second Lieutenants (and the leadership they had at their NROTC Unit) don't care much about the woke stuff. They're training to fight wars and defend us. They're a great and dedicated bunch of young people. My son has several friends who just graduated from the Academy. They're top flight, as well.
"Last time I looked we had over 10,000 nukes, and we're 5000 or so miles from Moscow and 5000 miles from Peking. No one is going to attack us. We're not Defending the USA by having troops in Germany."
I appreciate the sentiment, but "no one will attack us" except for small conventional forces, like Hooties, and such, who don't care if their people die. Small regional nuke nations are just there for the big FU when the barbarians are at the gate.
India has a good case, if the Chinese are going to do a land invasion thru the Himalayas, a few small nukes in the right passes would work fine.
I should have just said that China will still invade Taiwan if the US has Nukes, but perhaps not if Taiwan and Japan has them.
Got a nephew who hitchhiked from China to Europe, hiked the entire Pacific Crest Trail and once bicycled from San Luis Obispo to Portland to visit his brother. Last year he joined the Army.
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