"... as they’re supposed to be. And big loud crowds make me nervous now in a way that they didn’t when I was 22 and a big loud crowd was fun and meant I was at a club with oontz-oontz-oontz music and 73 of my closest friends. I now prefer political participation that is less hard on the knees. But I am exhilarated to see students using protest for exactly the reasons it’s protected by the First Amendment. It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable, even if it means putting themselves at risk. And most compellingly, it’s getting the attention of the president and other lawmakers who can effect change far beyond the walls of any university campus."
What did Hillary say that Spiers deemed wrong? She dismissed young people as ignorant of "the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country."
By the way, I had to look up "oontz-oontz-oontz music." I found this:
It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable, even if it means putting themselves at risk.
Those Rotary Hunger Strikes can go south on you in a minute!
"College students of this generation have far more knowledge about complex world events than mine or Ms. Clinton’s did, thanks to the availability of the internet and a 24/7 news cycle fire-hosed directly into their phones."
Current events then? And, the information comes from curated sources that are little more than an echo chamber. Seems to me that those kids DO lack an understanding of actual World history and DO only know what they are being spoonfed so that they can feel part of something. Like this author used to. Maybe when she gets a little older and wiser she'll get it. Probably not.
Hillary made comments against pro-Hamas protestors, and NYT can't have it because people like Bari Weiss are the Nazis, and Hillary shouldn't be on the side of Nazis.
Alas, Hillary's take on anybody that disagrees is that they are ignorant, not that she could possibly wrong. In that, NYT is her equal.
There's a difference between protesting and rioting, between bringing attention and endangering others, between objecting to something and threatening a group of people on the basis of their ethnicity/religion.
Young people always think that they know better than their elders. Two things have changed. First, many of their elders now encourage them in this belief. Exhibit A: Greta Thunberg. Exhibit B: The student walkouts after the Parkland High School shootings. (Does anybody remember David Hogg?) Second, our schools, like society as a whole, now focus on achievement rather than character. For all the talk about how today's young people are much more interested in social justice than previous generations were, that changes the definition of social justice from traditional American values embodied in the Constitution to Progressive concepts of what the world should look like. In the case of the pro-Hamas student protestors, their biggest achievement has been disrupting the lives the conflict-adverse. It is a sad day when ignorance about the history of the Middle East is celebrated.
But I am exhilarated to see students using protest for exactly the reasons it’s protected by the First Amendment. It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable, even if it means putting themselves at risk.
I'm curious to know what her view of the Canadian trucker protests or obstructive anti-abortion protests is. I mean, I have a guess, but it may be unfair to her to go in with the assumption that she's a hack who only cares about the "First Amendment" when she agrees with the protesters.
I put "First Amendment" in quotes there because I think a lot of disruptive protest tactics (like blocking traffic or blocking access to buildings) are on the wrong side of "the right of the people peaceably to assemble."
Elizabeth Spiers said… "I’m somewhat sympathetic to those who find protests uncomfortable. They’re always disruptive as they’re supposed to be.”
Imma stop you right there. If you truly believe that, then you’ve given license to someone to follow you around with a bullhorn protesting your posterior and your ideals that flow from there.
"Dear Boomers, the Student Protesters Are Not Idiots" No, in fact, the leading mouths often aren't even students. Today, the front page of the SF Chronicle reveals (because they can't help it when the precious are involved) that, at Cal Berkeley: "Trans Activists Taking Leading Role in Gaza Protests". The story revolves around the Palestinian transgender-activist-non-student, Mama Ganuush, megaphone in hand, leading the chant "Disclose, divest, we will not stop, we will not rest." He's 45. The article goes on to boast "Pro-Palistinian protests around the Bay Area and beyond often are being led by LGBTQ activists..." Go where the kids are.
Elizabeth Spiers said… "I’m somewhat sympathetic to those who find protests uncomfortable. They’re always disruptive as they’re supposed to be.”
Imma stop you right there. If you truly believe that, then you’ve given license to someone to follow you around with a bullhorn protesting your posterior and your ideals that flow from there.
These people never envision the tactics being used on them.
Spiers is a Hamas apologist and not a particularly bright one, when Jewish students are barred at Penn Harvard Yale, well thats not a protest is it, neither is the genocidal chant 'from the river to the sea' some wag, David Neiwurt, called this 'eliminationism'
"I'm curious to know what her view of the Canadian trucker protests or obstructive anti-abortion protests is. I mean, I have a guess, but it may be unfair to her to go in with the assumption that she's a hack who only cares about the "First Amendment" when she agrees with the protesters.
I don't think your assertion is really a guess- almost certainly a fact.
Where I think the Pro-Palestinian protestors go wrong, and where the Canadian Trucker Protest got it completely correct, is that these protestors should all be in New York at the UN or in D.C. outside the White House and outside of Congress- collectively, they could put 250,000+ protestors on Pennsylvania Avenue for the next 6 months. I wouldn't raise one word of criticism of their presence there.
These are the same college campuses that routinely exclude, or impose ridiculously onerous burdens on, conservative speakers.
They haven’t given a shit about the First Amendment for a long time, and the idea that they now use it in order to protect a bunch of masked Jew-hating thugs who are quite literally calling for the extermination of 8 million Israeli Jews is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
These are the same college campuses that routinely exclude, or impose ridiculously onerous burdens on, conservative speakers.
They haven’t given a shit about the First Amendment for a long time, and the idea that they now use it in order to protect a bunch of masked Jew-hating thugs who are quite literally calling for the extermination of 8 million Israeli Jews is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
What did Hillary say that Spiers deemed wrong? She dismissed young people as ignorant of "the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country."
That cracking sound is Hell freezing over.
Hillary is right? I guess it can happen and this looks like one of those rare instances.
Seriously- if you are going to protest the U.S. government's policies inside the U.S., then your protests need to be on Pennsylvania Avenue, ShitSwamp USA.
"But I am exhilarated to see students using protest for exactly the reasons it’s protected by the First Amendment."
But that's not what has been happening. Too many of the protests have descended into violence, intimidation, destruction and people trampling on other people's rights.
It does get said of protests (and got said by Spiers) that one of the points of a protest is to "hold decision makers accountable".
I'm not clear on what anyone thinks the actual accountability is. If I am at a book club and I express there a strong political conviction that is highly critical of a politician, I don't think anyone would say that I had just committed an act of holding a decision maker accountable.
That wouldn't change if someone was filming the book club, and caught my comments on camera (I don't think). I'm still not actually holding anyone accountable.
Unless "holding a decision maker accountable" doesn't mean anything other than "say critical things about the decision makers to other people".
That doesn't sound as exciting but really is there any actual accountability? I don't think so.
What did Hillary say that Spiers deemed wrong? She dismissed young people as ignorant of "the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country."
I agree with something Hillary Clinton said? It’s a sign of the apocalypse, I tells you!
Ms. Spiers may want to reread the First Amendment. The specific right is “peaceably to assemble.” It does not include a right to intimidation, or threats of violence, or actual violence to impede others in the free exercise of their own rights. It does not include physical aggression to kidnap maintenance workers, even if they are low status in the eyes of Ms. Spiers and the privileged students of Columbia. It conveys no right to beat an old man to death with a bullhorn just because he’s Jewish and waving the flag of Israel. You have a right to demonstrate but he has no First Amendment right to counter protest? It conveys no right to beat a young woman into unconsciousness just because she’s Jewish.
Here’s my line in the sand: it is as wrong to hate a person just because that person is Jewish as it was 60 years ago to hate someone for having black skin. Ms. Spiers may not like being unfavorably compared to Klan members. Too bad.
" It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable..."
These are many of the same students who want to pile their student loans on the backs of people who didn't go to college. You want accountability? How about starting there? Pay off your own loans. Living up to an agreement is a value, do that and maybe you'll earn some credit for having values worth considering. Until then, go fuck yourselves.
These are many of the same students who want to pile their student loans on the backs of people who didn't go to college. You want accountability? How about starting there? Pay off your own loans.
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38 comments:
Now do Jan. 6.
"the long-running right-wing insistence that elite universities are liberal indoctrination camps"
You mean, objective reality?
It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable, even if it means putting themselves at risk.
Those Rotary Hunger Strikes can go south on you in a minute!
Just say the words aloud "oontz-oontz-oontz" and you'll know it's techno music.
"College students of this generation have far more knowledge about complex world events than mine or Ms. Clinton’s did, thanks to the availability of the internet and a 24/7 news cycle fire-hosed directly into their phones."
Current events then? And, the information comes from curated sources that are little more than an echo chamber. Seems to me that those kids DO lack an understanding of actual World history and DO only know what they are being spoonfed so that they can feel part of something. Like this author used to. Maybe when she gets a little older and wiser she'll get it. Probably not.
Hillary made comments against pro-Hamas protestors, and NYT can't have it because people like Bari Weiss are the Nazis, and Hillary shouldn't be on the side of Nazis.
Alas, Hillary's take on anybody that disagrees is that they are ignorant, not that she could possibly wrong. In that, NYT is her equal.
There's a difference between protesting and rioting, between bringing attention and endangering others, between objecting to something and threatening a group of people on the basis of their ethnicity/religion.
A difference that some people like to gloss over.
"and 73 of my closest friends"
LOL,
Young people always think that they know better than their elders. Two things have changed.
First, many of their elders now encourage them in this belief. Exhibit A: Greta Thunberg. Exhibit B: The student walkouts after the Parkland High School shootings. (Does anybody remember David Hogg?) Second, our schools, like society as a whole, now focus on achievement rather than character. For all the talk about how today's young people are much more interested in social justice than previous generations were, that changes the definition of social justice from traditional American values embodied in the Constitution to Progressive concepts of what the world should look like. In the case of the pro-Hamas student protestors, their biggest achievement has been disrupting the lives the conflict-adverse. It is a sad day when ignorance about the history of the Middle East is celebrated.
Just as I thought, it was great fun! And it beat going to that Western Civ lecture.
But I am exhilarated to see students using protest for exactly the reasons it’s protected by the First Amendment. It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable, even if it means putting themselves at risk.
I'm curious to know what her view of the Canadian trucker protests or obstructive anti-abortion protests is. I mean, I have a guess, but it may be unfair to her to go in with the assumption that she's a hack who only cares about the "First Amendment" when she agrees with the protesters.
I put "First Amendment" in quotes there because I think a lot of disruptive protest tactics (like blocking traffic or blocking access to buildings) are on the wrong side of "the right of the people peaceably to assemble."
Elizabeth Spiers said…
"I’m somewhat sympathetic to those who find protests uncomfortable. They’re always disruptive as they’re supposed to be.”
Imma stop you right there. If you truly believe that, then you’ve given license to someone to follow you around with a bullhorn protesting your posterior and your ideals that flow from there.
Filed under cognitive dissidents
Hillary lies about her favorite baseball team. She has no limits.
Just wanna say, I saw a brand new shiny Hillary bumper sticker today.
Just wanna say, I saw a brand new shiny Hillary bumper sticker today.
Just wanna say, I saw a brand new shiny Hillary bumper sticker today.
"Dear Boomers, the Student Protesters Are Not Idiots"
No, in fact, the leading mouths often aren't even students. Today, the front page of the SF Chronicle reveals (because they can't help it when the precious are involved) that, at Cal Berkeley: "Trans Activists Taking Leading Role in Gaza Protests". The story revolves around the Palestinian transgender-activist-non-student, Mama Ganuush, megaphone in hand, leading the chant "Disclose, divest, we will not stop, we will not rest." He's 45. The article goes on to boast "Pro-Palistinian protests around the Bay Area and beyond often are being led by LGBTQ activists..." Go where the kids are.
Rocco said...
Elizabeth Spiers said…
"I’m somewhat sympathetic to those who find protests uncomfortable. They’re always disruptive as they’re supposed to be.”
Imma stop you right there. If you truly believe that, then you’ve given license to someone to follow you around with a bullhorn protesting your posterior and your ideals that flow from there.
These people never envision the tactics being used on them.
Mostly because we are too polite.
Now, I have give Howard big thumbs up for that one!
Who did you steal it from, Howard?
Spiers is a Hamas apologist and not a particularly bright one, when Jewish students are barred at Penn Harvard Yale, well thats not a protest is it, neither is the genocidal chant 'from the river to the sea' some wag, David Neiwurt, called this 'eliminationism'
"I'm curious to know what her view of the Canadian trucker protests or obstructive anti-abortion protests is. I mean, I have a guess, but it may be unfair to her to go in with the assumption that she's a hack who only cares about the "First Amendment" when she agrees with the protesters.
I don't think your assertion is really a guess- almost certainly a fact.
Where I think the Pro-Palestinian protestors go wrong, and where the Canadian Trucker Protest got it completely correct, is that these protestors should all be in New York at the UN or in D.C. outside the White House and outside of Congress- collectively, they could put 250,000+ protestors on Pennsylvania Avenue for the next 6 months. I wouldn't raise one word of criticism of their presence there.
These are the same college campuses that routinely exclude, or impose ridiculously onerous burdens on, conservative speakers.
They haven’t given a shit about the First Amendment for a long time, and the idea that they now use it in order to protect a bunch of masked Jew-hating thugs who are quite literally calling for the extermination of 8 million Israeli Jews is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
These are the same college campuses that routinely exclude, or impose ridiculously onerous burdens on, conservative speakers.
They haven’t given a shit about the First Amendment for a long time, and the idea that they now use it in order to protect a bunch of masked Jew-hating thugs who are quite literally calling for the extermination of 8 million Israeli Jews is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
Are we taking Elizabeth Spiers, original editor of gawker.com, seriously now?
What did Hillary say that Spiers deemed wrong? She dismissed young people as ignorant of "the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country."
That cracking sound is Hell freezing over.
Hillary is right? I guess it can happen and this looks like one of those rare instances.
John Henry
What did Hillary say that Spiers deemed wrong?
It's 2024 on an Ivy League campus.
"Wrong" has nothing to do with facts.
Spiers doesn't understand (deliberately?) what people are objecting to.
All protests are not created equal.
Hubert the Infant:
Exhibit A: Greta Thunberg.
Now, thanks to Rita Panahi of Sky News Australia, forever known to me as "that miserable little doom goblin".
Seriously- if you are going to protest the U.S. government's policies inside the U.S., then your protests need to be on Pennsylvania Avenue, ShitSwamp USA.
"But I am exhilarated to see students using protest for exactly the reasons it’s protected by the First Amendment."
But that's not what has been happening. Too many of the protests have descended into violence, intimidation, destruction and people trampling on other people's rights.
It does get said of protests (and got said by Spiers) that one of the points of a protest is to "hold decision makers accountable".
I'm not clear on what anyone thinks the actual accountability is. If I am at a book club and I express there a strong political conviction that is highly critical of a politician, I don't think anyone would say that I had just committed an act of holding a decision maker accountable.
That wouldn't change if someone was filming the book club, and caught my comments on camera (I don't think). I'm still not actually holding anyone accountable.
Unless "holding a decision maker accountable" doesn't mean anything other than "say critical things about the decision makers to other people".
That doesn't sound as exciting but really is there any actual accountability? I don't think so.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cognitive-dissidents/id1618811454
What did Hillary say that Spiers deemed wrong? She dismissed young people as ignorant of "the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country."
I agree with something Hillary Clinton said? It’s a sign of the apocalypse, I tells you!
Ms. Spiers may want to reread the First Amendment. The specific right is “peaceably to assemble.” It does not include a right to intimidation, or threats of violence, or actual violence to impede others in the free exercise of their own rights. It does not include physical aggression to kidnap maintenance workers, even if they are low status in the eyes of Ms. Spiers and the privileged students of Columbia. It conveys no right to beat an old man to death with a bullhorn just because he’s Jewish and waving the flag of Israel. You have a right to demonstrate but he has no First Amendment right to counter protest? It conveys no right to beat a young woman into unconsciousness just because she’s Jewish.
Here’s my line in the sand: it is as wrong to hate a person just because that person is Jewish as it was 60 years ago to hate someone for having black skin. Ms. Spiers may not like being unfavorably compared to Klan members. Too bad.
I now prefer political participation that is less hard on the knees.
I wouldn't have used that phrase in an article about either Clinton, but maybe she's too young. I'm surprised no one else mentioned it.
" It allows them to stand up for their values, invest in what’s happening in the world and hold decision makers accountable..."
These are many of the same students who want to pile their student loans on the backs of people who didn't go to college. You want accountability? How about starting there? Pay off your own loans. Living up to an agreement is a value, do that and maybe you'll earn some credit for having values worth considering. Until then, go fuck yourselves.
These are many of the same students who want to pile their student loans on the backs of people who didn't go to college. You want accountability? How about starting there? Pay off your own loans.
@Mason G, + 1
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