April 9, 2024

"Throughout Monday afternoon, Trump raged at Graham in post after post on the social media platform after Graham said he 'respectfully' disagreed with Trump’s conclusions about abortion policy."

"Graham, in posts shared on X, argued that the court’s ruling on Roe 'does not require that conclusion legally.' 'The states’ rights only rationale today runs contrary to an American consensus that would limit late-term abortions and will age about as well as the Dred Scott decision,' Graham said. 'The science is clear — a child at fifteen weeks is well-developed and is capable of feeling pain.' Graham has been a staunch proponent of federal limits on abortions. Most recently, he has pushed for a ban after 15 weeks of pregnancy....  'The Democrats are thrilled with Lindsey, because they want this issue to simmer for as long a period of time as possible,' Trump said. In another post, Trump argued that by allowing states to make their own abortion laws, 'we have taken the Abortion Issue largely out of play.' 'We cannot let our Country suffer any further damage by losing Elections on an issue that should always have been decided by the States, and now will be,' Trump said...."

From "Trump rages against [Lindsey] Graham on abortion in rare break between allies/The posts from the former president came after the senator said he ‘respectfully’ disagreed with Trump’s stance on abortion Monday" (WaPo).

Graham's support for a federal statute limiting abortion undercuts an argument that abortion opponents will want to make if Congress ever creates a right to abortion in the form of a federal statute. But if protecting the life of the unborn is your highest priority, that's where you go as a matter of principle. The idea of leaving it to the states seems like a pragmatic compromise.

And here we see Trump defending leaving it to the states as a matter of pragmatic compromise. It's good politics for Republicans, as Trump talks about it. One could also defend constitutional principles of federalism and urge people to see that there is good reason to enforce limits to congressional powers. Graham spoke of "states' rights" — which makes it sound retrograde — but one can defend federalism in modern-day terms.

To some extent, Trump is speaking of the benefits of letting the people of different states make law reflecting the local preferences rather than seeking one uniform rule for all of us. But Trump also openly reveals that it's not about the value of decentralized decision-making. It's about his party winning elections. That's no big secret. Why not say it?

Well, we know why. It disturbs those who are absolutely pro-life. And yet, Graham's proposed federal law — a ban after 15 weeks — is not absolute. Arguably, it cedes the high ground, a strict idea of limited, enumerated federal powers. Interestingly, we don't see Trump posturing on that high ground. I guess that's too abstract in a time when people are thinking about the concrete matters: murdering babies and winning elections.

97 comments:

Chuck said...

The intramural debate among Republican politicians is mild, compared to what will be happening with the true, ideological Right to Life movement. Graham is doing his level best to represent his political friends and supporters within RTL. But Graham is doing it in a mild way that he thought might be respectful of Trump, after years of dealing with Trump's transactional emotionalism.

But basically, if Trump were an ordinary Republican who was running in a primary, RTL would pull out all stops to defeat him. What Trump is saying is pure apostasy for RTL. The purest deal-breaker that RTL could face. Trump is effectively saying that he's fine with state laws that would make the vast number of abortions perfectly legal for all time. And pretty soon, he will be similarly forced to adopt an IVF position that counters the RTL position.

And now we have 209 days left to drive that wedge -- between Trump and Right to Life -- as hard as possible. We will find out how important, how influential RTL actually is. (I suspect that it is not nearly as potent as many have suspected, although it might well be ewough to ruin Trump's '24 campaign.)

gilbar said...

serious question:
Where in the Constitution, does it give the US Federal Government power try people for murder?

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

I’m just happy that the thing is not on demand anymore. But some people will never be happy. Even when they fuc&@g win.

MadisonMan said...

Lindsay Graham, like so many politicians (Democrat and Republican), has been suckling at the Abortion Teat for their entire careers. And then along came Donald Trump, non-Politician, and did what Republican politicians had been promising for years. No wonder they dislike him.
Similarly, so many Democrats have jumped on the Abortion Rights bandwagon, yet when they had majorities, were any laws proposed to protect those rights? They were not (Tammy, I'm looking at you)

Mason G said...

"The states’ rights only rationale today runs contrary to an American consensus that would limit late-term abortions..."

As with climate change, consensus doesn't matter here either. Most Americans support the election of the president by popular vote, too. But that's not the Constitution we have- you know, the one that includes states' rights and an electoral college. There's a way to change the Constitution, but nobody ever seems to want to do the hard lifting there and prefer to instead whine "But I want..." with the expectation that should count for something.

Rich said...

Arizona Supreme Court Revives 160-Year-Old Abortion Ban ~ WSJ

Republicans: returning us to the 1860s in every way possible.

D.D. Driver said...

It's hilarious that Trump has turned the GOP into the pro-Abortion party. Here the left is calling Trump the "Anti-Christ" and all he is doing is teaching Christians that abortion is okay after all. Let me ask you this question: would the Anti-Christ do such a thing?

Ann Althouse said...

"Where in the Constitution, does it give the US Federal Government power try people for murder?"

The necessary and proper clause.

It's a means, not an end.

Rabel said...

"Raged"

R C Belaire said...

Trump is right to argue the individual states' can/should decide their abortion policy. The sooner Republicans can get this issue behind them, the better. On a national level, it does no good, politically, to argue this issue.

Skeptical Voter said...

Go away Ms. Lindsey.

n.n said...

Unlike slavery and diversity, human... reproductive rites can be performed at the twilight fringe... in darkness... im the bowels of Planned Parenthood et al. This is why murder is left to legislation and prosecution by the states. Abortion is a hard problem, but the wicked solution is probably the worst choice to remedy the "burden" of life.

Mike Sylwester said...

Chuck at 12:30 PM
... if Trump were an ordinary Republican who was running in a primary ...

I don't care what everyone else says. I like Chuck.

However, I am appalled by his mixing the subjunctive and indicative moods. He should have written:

... if Trump were an ordinary Republican who were running in a primary ...

Roger Sweeny said...

"Where in the Constitution, does it give the US Federal Government power try people for murder?"

Murdered people were wearing clothes that had traveled in interstate commerce. No longer being alive, they will not be able to buy any more clothes (not to mention all the food and other items that have passed through interstate commerce). Thus murder affects interstate commerce. So murder falls under the constitutional power "to regulate interstate commerce." Wickard v. Filburn

Tom T. said...

The necessary and proper clause.

I took gilbar's point to be that murder is typically a state crime, because the Constitution does *not* empower the federal government to enact a plenary criminal code, except when some particular federal interest is implicated.

RTL would pull out all stops to defeat him.

I haven't seen much evidence in this election cycle for pro-life organizations insisting that Republicans support a national ban. Certainly Lindsey Graham is nobody's idea of a hardliner.

JaimeRoberto said...

"raged"

Does anything Trump says get qualified as anything other than rage or rant or fume?

traditionalguy said...

What about the rape exception. Does Graham wants Trump to die on that hill too. Seems to me Graham just wants Trump to lose and die in jail. Wonder how much money Graham sold out for. I guarantee you there was no principle involved for him other than how much.

n.n said...

Incest will be a problematic exception, since the Democrats passed a law to make it illegal to discriminate by sexual orientation.

Six weeks to legal viability. #NoJudgment #NoLabels #BabySteps

mccullough said...

The partial birth abortion law decision at the Supreme Court didn’t address whether Congress has the power under the Commerce Clause/Necessary & Proper combination to regulate partial birth abortion.

Thomas & Scalia concurrence noted this.

Be great if another Abortion Tempest resulted in a decision that limited Congress power to regulate abortion at all.

Former Illinois resident said...

Legislation regarding abortion legality is a state's matter, not in "Trump", nor "Biden" presidential jurisdiction to determine. That's constitutional law. Biden is blathering when he talks about "Trump banning abortion". Look, Biden's been president for 3 years, and hasn't "fixed it" yet.

If you go back to Roe v Wade era of abortion being legalized via Supreme Court ruling, more Republicans than Democrats supported women's access to legal abortion. Go look it up. My source: Nancy Cohen's book "Delirium; How the Sexual Counterrevloution Polarizing America", finished reading it yesterday.

hawkeyedjb said...

One thing you'll never hear from Donald Trump: "I respectfully disagree."

If only he could spend as much effort criticizing Democrats as he does Republicans.

Joe Smith said...

Graham needed to be raged at.

He got the W and wouldn't take it...probably part of his ongoing money grift.

When you get what you want, you don't talk past the sale...

Mr Wibble said...

Alexthechick over on the twats has a good story about working with a pro-life group and the conflict between pragmatism and idealism. She's been pretty clear since Dobbs that she doesn't think that the pro-life movement is prepared for it and that they still haven't adapted to the new fight.

https://twitter.com/alexthechick/status/1777388357531701347




BarrySanders20 said...

Roger Sweeny's right. And since dead people cant buy roll their own doobies either, that runs afoul of another SCOTUS decree, Ashcroft v. Raich, that says rolling your own doobies can be interstate commerce.

Achilles said...

gilbar said...


The same place it gave the federal government the authority to regulate or legalize abortion.

It is a dark smelly place.

Narayanan said...

... if Trump were an ordinary Republican who were running in a primary ...
==========
does not read right ; subjunctive already in 'if Trump were '
[need not be duplicated with ?ordinary Republican who were running? ]

dbp said...

The problem with Graham's idea is that it can cut in two directions: If Republicans can create a federal limit of 15 weeks, then the Democrats can re-create Roe v Wade through the same process.

If the process is handled by the states, more Americans will live in jurisdictions that have laws they like than if we live under, even the most reasonable, national law on the subject.

TickTock said...

If Trump raged as frequently as he is accused of raging by the MSM, he'd have popped an artery by now. I imagine he engages in hyperbole quite calmly.

Iman said...

Graham’s default should be to shut his mouth and eschew the cameras, as he is seldom additive and often prissy.

TickTock said...

Execution - its a means, not an end. Chuckle

Iman said...

“I don't care what everyone else says. I like Chuck.

However, I am appalled by his mixing the subjunctive and indicative moods.”

Don’t be. The poor sod can barely tie his own shoes, let alone use proper grammar.

Ann Althouse said...

"'The necessary and proper clause.' I took gilbar's point to be that murder is typically a state crime, because the Constitution does *not* empower the federal government to enact a plenary criminal code, except when some particular federal interest is implicated."

Go on.

You began to engage, then suddenly dropped it, as if you had finished and gilbar was right. If this were a law school exam — and I've done many law school exams about the N&P clause — you would not do well.

Complete the line of thought you began. It's not that hard. Maybe you've already noticed it and decided to pretend not to see it.

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

Stephen Douglas said states should be free to vote slavery up or down. Lincoln said a house divided against itself can't stand. One difference from the abortion issue: slavery was a big part of the economy of the South, and defended as a matter of property rights, perhaps the dignity of whites in the South. The North was increasingly abolitionist. There is not such a clear geographic difference today. Or if there is, Trump's solution might work.

Ann Althouse said...

"The partial birth abortion law decision at the Supreme Court didn’t address whether Congress has the power under the Commerce Clause/Necessary & Proper combination to regulate partial birth abortion. Thomas & Scalia concurrence noted this."

Yes. That's what I'm talking about.

"Be great if another Abortion Tempest resulted in a decision that limited Congress power to regulate abortion at all."

That would mean Congress couldn't limit abortion or create a federal statutory right to abortion.

Congress couldn't exclude abortion from covered medical costs?

Chuck said...

Althouse wrote:
"...And here we see Trump defending leaving it to the states as a matter of pragmatic compromise. It's good politics for Republicans, as Trump talks about it. ..."

The notion that one could easily draw here -- and I could fall into the trap as easily as others are now doing -- is that Trump is communicating in a way that is more moderate, more sensible, more conciliatory on abortion.

But that understanding would ignore the fact that in his latest Truth Social recorded statement, Trump went out of his way, as he has in the past, to recite the lie that Democrats "support the concept of abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month ... the baby is born and is executed after birth..."

It's as pure a lie, as outrageous a lie, as exists in American politics. Trump trots it out repeatedly. Shamelessly. And as such, there really is no sensible conversation to be had with Trump on the subject of abortion politics.

Achilles said...

Go on.

You began to engage, then suddenly dropped it, as if you had finished and gilbar was right. If this were a law school exam — and I've done many law school exams about the N&P clause — you would not do well.


So murder is not identified anywhere specifically in the Constitution.

The Constitution was meant to be a simple document that worked out the relationship between the states. The point of the constitution was not to address the entire social contract between the people and the government. It was meant to provide a framework for the states to work together while they made their own contracts with the people in their states.

The instances where the federal government interceded in a states social contract with the people that live there are to ensure equal protection and this required an amendment.

There was no reason for the federal government to write laws for murder or abortion. It makes everything worse when it meddles like this. The people who are attracted to government power are generally meddlesome busybodies who can’t mind their own business.

That is why the 9th and 10th amendments were written and why lawyers in general have to pretend they don’t exist or they cannot read.

wendybar said...

hawkeyedjb said...
One thing you'll never hear from Donald Trump: "I respectfully disagree."

If only he could spend as much effort criticizing Democrats as he does Republicans.

4/9/24, 1:18 PM

Right back at the Republicans who NEVER criticize or stop Democrats from getting what they want and what they run for, like they do Trump. Remember how much they helped him with the border? They didn't.

Rich said...

The AZ ruling was only possible because Trump's hard-right Supreme Court overturned Roe and Casey. Trump said that he'd "leave it to the states". This is typical of what that means.

Achilles said...

Congress couldn't exclude abortion from covered medical costs?

“ Covered medical costs” Shouldn’t be in any Bill That Congress writes in anyway.

90% of the crap the federal government is involved Our matters, it has no business dealing with and Makes everything those matters worse.

Maynard said...

Republicans: returning us to the 1860s in every way possible.

Hey Rich,

What was happening in the USA back then?

You don't seem bright or well informed (outside your DNC talking points) so I will tell you.

Republicans fought against Democrats to end slavery. People of courage died for their principles.

Do you have any principles?

Achilles said...

hawkeyedjb said...
One thing you'll never hear from Donald Trump: "I respectfully disagree."



If only he could spend as much effort criticizing Democrats as he does Republicans.

Wow. A Romney republican just wrote that.

Nevertrumps just need too sod off and create their own party. The deplorables do not like your failure, theater and America last crap. There are so many “Republicans“ That are More deserving of criticism than Democrats even.

Lindsey Graham is one of those scumbags and war mongers that is richly deserving of criticism.

Breezy said...

Neither side wants to compromise even though there are a few valid options to do so. A majority (I believe) are tired of all the same arguments being made over and over and welcome the opportunity to try a new strategy - state’s rights. The die-hards will never be happy with any legislated outcome, but the rest will likely vote for anything that brings the temp down. As Trump tried something new with Kim Jung Un, he’s trying something new on reproductive rights. Let’s see what happens.

Besides, we have far bigger things to debate these days. I’d like to see women in particular focus debate on border security, crime, fentanyl, military activity, etc., as these topics all have a huge impact on maintaining a thriving family life.

Wince said...

Rich said...
The AZ ruling was only possible because Trump's hard-right Supreme Court overturned Roe and Casey. Trump said that he'd "leave it to the states". This is typical of what that means.

Isn't it because Roe and Casey preempted the statutory house cleaning that would have ensued many years ago, which has to take place now?

Jim at said...

all he is doing is teaching Christians that abortion is okay after all.

It would be helpful if you could point out where he said that. In quotes.

Achilles said...

Lloyd W. Robertson said...
Stephen Douglas said states should be free to vote slavery up or down. Lincoln said a house divided against itself can't stand.

When the government applies the monopoly on force to a subject then there is no longer any way for individuals to compromise or work out things among themselves.

This should be done in situations where there are massive power differences, or on things that are almost universally accepted. Over 90% of people think murder should be illegal. The appropriate government entity Shouldn’t force the social norm to prevent vigilantism that would inevitably arise if they did not. slavery was such an issue. If the state did not step in and prevent slavery Then individuals were going to start stepping in and ab slavery on their own.

In general, Douglas is right. But in the instance of slavery, that issue had made To the point where we could not stand as a country because people were about to start taking the issue into their own hands and attacking the slave industry

Jim at said...

The AZ ruling was only possible because Trump's hard-right Supreme Court overturned Roe and Casey. Trump said that he'd "leave it to the states".

Do you live in Arizona? No? Then why do you care what they do?

Drago said...

LLR-democratical and Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasist Chuck: "But that understanding would ignore the fact that in his latest Truth Social recorded statement, Trump went out of his way, as he has in the past, to recite the lie that Democrats "support the concept of abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month ... the baby is born and is executed after birth..."

LOL

There is no democratical, no marxist, no democratical policy that LLR-democratical Chuck wont lie for and defend.

Remember this one?

"210 Democrats vote against bill requiring medical care for babies born alive after abortion attempt
Democrats said the bill would interfere with families' medical decisions"

That was just January of 2023.

Yes Chuckles, the dems official position is zero restrictions on abortion for any reason at any time and if the child somehow miraculously survives your beloved democraticals abortion gauntlet at the 9 month mark, you cats are more than happy to watch that child die right in front of you while denying care.

That you support that, fully and without reservation, is the least surprising thing one might encounter...with the possible exception of your quite..."intense"...at times, "fascination" with the young children of conservative politicians...along with your previous strong and passionate support for drag queen story hours and other in-school pro-groomer policies.

You know, seeing those facts lined up in that way, does present one with an almost complete connect-the-dots picture...with just a couple remaining gaps to be colored in...

...I wonder what those might be?

Dude1394 said...

Graham want's to make sure republicans lose on abortion, AGAIN.

n.n said...

One difference from the abortion issue: slavery... defended as a matter of property rights

They still do.

Howard said...

Keep this up and you're only move will be to declare the election was fraudulent and that's why you lost. That's probably Trump's goal anyway. He'll be able to make more money off of that

Stephen Lindsay said...

What if we went one radical step further and made a wild and crazy constitutional amendment that said that topics like abortion are REQUIRED to be state issues unless the constitution specifically assigned them to the US government. I think that would provide some much needed clarity and reduce the polarization of the electorate. But I know … too crazy, right?

RCOCEAN II said...

The way WaPo wrote what Graham wants and what Trump said is typically dishonest and full of lies. Yeah, Trump was just RAGING. MINDLESS RAGE. MINDLESS TRUMPIAN RAGE.

Several points:

1) If Graham is "pro=life" why does he allow Abortion up till 15 weeks? That's not a "ban". Also, a federal law of that sort would make it impossible for more conservative states to ban abortions before that.

2) And this is Trump's big beef. The Democrats will NEVER accept 15 weeks. Currently most blue states have abortion beginning at 24 weeks, sometimes later. No bill will ever be passed unless the D's can get at LEAST 24 weeks. And once abortion is taken out of the states hands, and centralized in DC, the Congressional Democrats will then NEVER stop fighting till late term abortions, paid by the Government is the law.

3) Miss Lindsey knows this. He's either trying to undercut Trump to make him lose. Or he's a secret liberal trying to get Abortion legalized on a nationwide basis again. I'd bet on Both.

4) Never forget that Miss Lindsey was OK with Lieberman being McCain's VP or his AG. Further, Graham was part of the "Gang of 8" that kept any number of conservatives off the appeals court. He also was proud to vote for Sotomayor and Kagan. And he would have voted for Garland if he'd been nominated by Hillary in 2009. Graham is only as conservative as he has to be to get re-elected in SC. He's very good at TALKING conservative close to election year, and then subverting the conservative agenda through backdoor manauevers (sic).

RCOCEAN II said...

The way WaPo wrote what Graham wants and want Trump said is typically dishonest and full of lies. Yeah, Trump was just RAGING. MINDLESS RAGE. MINDLESS TRUMPIAN RAGE.

1) If Graham is "pro=life" why does he allow Abortion up till 15 weeks? That's not a "ban".
A federal law of that sort would make it impossible for more conservative states to ban abortions before that.

2) And this is Trump's big beef. The Democrats will NEVER accept 15 weeks. Currently most blue states have abortion beginning at 24 weeks, sometimes later. No bill will ever be passed unless the D's can get at LEAST 24 weeks. And once abortion is taken out of the states hands, and centralized in DC, the Democrats will then NEVER stop fighting till late term abortions, paid by the Government are the law.

3) Miss Lindsey knows this. He's either trying to undercut Trump to make him lose. Or he's a secret liberal trying to get Abortion legalized on a nationwide basis again. I'd bet on Both. Never forget that Miss Lindsey was OK with Lieberman being McCain's VP or his AG. Further, Graham was part of the "Gang of 8" that kept any number of conservatives off the appeals court. He also was proud to vote for Sotomayor and Kagan. And he would have voted for Garland if he'd been nominated by Hillary in 2009.

Stephen Lindsay said...

What if we went one radical step further and made a wild and crazy constitutional amendment that said that topics like abortion are REQUIRED to be state issues unless the Constitution specifically assigned them to the US government. I think that would provide some much needed clarity and reduce the polarization of the electorate. But I know … too crazy, right?

Kevin said...

It's as pure a lie, as outrageous a lie, as exists in American politics.

Oh I don’t think this would rank with any of the outrageous lies we’ve been forced to hear of late.

But with respect to this issue, all that’s required to expose the “lie” is for someone in the Democrat leadership to suggest a limit on abortion.

You’d think a “lie” this outrageous is one they’d be rushing to expose.

Tom T. said...

Complete the line of thought you began.

Sorry, but I'm not following. If you're suggesting that the N&P clause empowers Congress to ban abortion in "the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States," like the federal murder statute at 18 USC 1111, then I agree. If you're saying that the N&P clause would permit Congress to enact a nationwide murder statute, and it just has opted not to do so, I defer to you.

Jonathan Burack said...

The point here about Trump is that he is being pragmatic and seeking to reach out to a broader group of voters. A sign that he's aware of his need to go beyond his base. Good idea for him.

I do not think the actual issue, however, is a mere matter of "pragmatism" vs "idealism." Abortion is not like slavery as an issue, about which Lincoln was the idealist (the Declaration forbids leaving it up to popular sovereignty) and Douglas the pragmatist. In the case of abortion, however, two fundamental ideals collide -- the liberty of the woman, the life of the baby. Idealism vs. Idealism. The only possible solution is an inevitably arbitrary compromise. Which is why it makes sense to leave it up to the states. I'd call that an act of realism, not pragmatism.

As for my personal preference, I'd rather see a 12-week ban. Maybe someday all the states will come to see how right I am.

Robert Cook said...

"Lindsay Graham, like so many politicians (Democrat and Republican), has been suckling at the Abortion Teat for their entire careers. And then along came Donald Trump, non-Politician, and did what Republican politicians had been promising for years. No wonder they dislike him."

Well, it wasn't Trump that "did what Republican politicians had been promising for years," if by that you mean he undid Roe v. Wade. It was the Supreme Court. (Granted, it was Trump's choices for the Supreme Court that tipped the Court to the far right, which led in turn to their decision, but Trump cannot claim to have done "it" and others cannot accurately say he did it.)

bob said...

The vast majority of people in urban states want abortion (even unlimited). The vast majority of people in rural states want restrictions to abortion. Why don't we stop cramming this decision down people's throats. Why not let each live the way they want. That's the strength of our federalist/republican form of government. Take Washington DC, who are the most removed from the average person, out of the equation. They have only made matters worse. Maybe then we can co-exist in peace and focus on more pressing issues. There are many. Existential ones even.

Chuck said...

The vote that Drago referenced was on the "Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act" which was a House Republican stunt, with a catchy name and a kind of surface appeal that was exhaustively opposed by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and basically every other organized medical group for the simple reason that very late-term abortions are extremely rare and most often for the most serious and most complicated birth defects and maternal-fetal disorders. And the proposed law merely mucked around with the delicate and complex decision making.

Absolutely no one, anywhere, was "executing babies after they were born" as Trump so ignorantly suggests.

Here's a nice, readable explainer on the bill.

Chuck said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
effinayright said...

Mike Sylwester said...
Chuck at 12:30 PM
... if Trump were an ordinary Republican who was running in a primary ...

I don't care what everyone else says. I like Chuck.

However, I am appalled by his mixing the subjunctive and indicative moods. He should have written:

... if Trump were an ordinary Republican who were running in a primary ...
***********

Myself, I think an editor would pare that down to:

....if Trump were an ordinary Republican running in a primary ...

Rich said...

A few of the Althouse commentariat have absolutely no ability to see outside their bubble, and they sure have convinced themselves Trump is reading the room right.

Achilles said...

Howard said...

Keep this up and you're only move will be to declare the election was fraudulent and that's why you lost. That's probably Trump's goal anyway. He'll be able to make more money off of that

Joe Biden getting 81 million votes is just as mathematically impossible as a perpetual motion machine.

There is no chance that he had more than 65 million registered voters vote for him.

Zero.

The number of votes somehow went from 128.5 million in 2016 to 157 million in 2020.

It may have something to do with the 20 million votes they counted the night after the election after they kicked all of the observers out and boarded the windows in multiple counting stations that were closed for days after the election was over.

Mason G said...

"Do you live in Arizona? No? Then why do you care what they do?"

Progressives can't accept people in different states making different choices. Everybody, everywhere must do (or not do) the same things. One reason for this is that it makes it a lot harder to demonstrate that their ideas are so often completely fucked up by not allowing for differing, better working, examples to exist.

Bottom line... progressives insanely insist the incentives that actually motivate human beings can be ignored and alternate incentives substituted in order to generate their desired result.

Mason G said...

"What if we went one radical step further and made a wild and crazy constitutional amendment that said that topics like abortion are REQUIRED to be state issues unless the Constitution specifically assigned them to the US government."

Already been done.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Maybe another one that says "Yes, we mean it" would be enough to do the job? I'm doubtful.

Christopher B said...

Lloyd W. Robertson said...
Stephen Douglas said states should be free to vote slavery up or down. Lincoln said a house divided against itself can't stand.


Lincoln's position was informed by a couple of other provisions that don't have analogs in a post Roe environment - the Fugitive Slave Act which required free states to capture and return to bondage escaped slaves, and the Dred Scott ruling that denied civil rights to blacks.

BarrySanders20 said...
Roger Sweeny's right. And since dead people cant buy roll their own doobies either, that runs afoul of another SCOTUS decree, Ashcroft v. Raich, that says rolling your own doobies can be interstate commerce.


Look up Wickard v. Fulburn

Mutaman said...

D.D. Driver said...

" Let me ask you this question: would the Anti-Christ do such a thing?"

if it kept him from losing an election-sure.

Mutaman said...

Jim at said...



"Do you live in Arizona? No? Then why do you care what they do?"

You all don't live in NY but you seem totally obsessed by what goes on here.

Aggie said...

' But if protecting the life of the unborn is your highest priority, that's where you go as a matter of principle. ...'

That isn't the matter of the abortion issue that is driving Lindsey Graham. I won't say that he doesn't have any principles, it's just that he keeps them pretty well cloaked because normal people wouldn't stay friendly if he were to slip and put them on display. I think he's a lying, maneuvering little ... well, never mind, but if he has any principles at all, they're the type that guide him to lose, but just enough to still keep his seat and position of comfort within the GOPe - if you know what I mean (AIKTYD)

mikee said...

Texas may go blue over this issue, this year. Cruz should be worried. Texas did the stupid, putting such strict limits on abortion that it essentially is banned. Had they just stuck with "viable" as the limit, 5 or 6 months, abortion would have been massively limited but there would be no leg for opponents to stand on. If late term abortion is the idiocy of the proponents, a limit of 6 weeks is the idiocy of the antis.

Rich said...

When Trump says abortion should be left to the states — he must be referring to swing states.

Mutaman said...

Trump just lost Arizona.

Mutaman said...

What's the over/under for number of abortions Trump has paid for? I'll go with 5, bearing in mind that he probably welched on paying for a few.

Jamie said...

You all don't live in NY but you seem totally obsessed by what goes on here.

New York, and California, and their little siblings on the coasts plus maybe Chicago, are like war. We may not want to be interested in them, but they're sure as hell interested in us... which forces us to pay attention to what happens there.

New Yorkers don't have to pay attention to the decisions made by the voters of, say, Oklahoma. Many New Yorkers appear to think being forced to visit Oklahoma (and they would have to be forced) would be like being forced to visit hell, based on how they talk about such things. But they seem to want to control those voters' lives anyway.

Jim at said...

What's the over/under for number of abortions Trump has paid for? I'll go with 5, bearing in mind that he probably welched on paying for a few.

1. It's none of your business if he paid for any.

2. I can guarantee you if he paid for even one? Just one? Your fellow left-wing thugs in the media would've shouted it from the highest mountain tops it years ago. And they'd still be yelling about it.

That's proof enough for me.

Jim at said...

You all don't live in NY but you seem totally obsessed by what goes on here.

What the fuck are you talking about? I've never mentioned New York once. Ever.

Why not? Because I don't give a shit what goes on there.

You need your head examined.

stlcdr said...

Mutaman said...
Jim at said...



"Do you live in Arizona? No? Then why do you care what they do?"

You all don't live in NY but you seem totally obsessed by what goes on here.

4/9/24, 7:51 PM


NY city or NY the state? While we (sic) might be obsessed with it - whatever it is - and have a few recommendations to get your shit together, we aren’t about to force the feds to dictate how you do things.

Josephbleau said...

I am amazed at where America is at now. We don’t care if poor kids have food, we don’t care if kids are being educated. We don’t care if people have jobs. We select our president based on whether or not we can abort fetuses.

Republicans need to acknowledge that for the good of society you have to pass some reasonable and generous abortion allowances at the state level or lose input on any other policy. Don’t let one issue give up your influence on every other issue.

Don’t be stupid.

Rich said...

Republicans rush to distance from "disaster" Arizona abortion ruling ~ Axios

The logical consequence of Trump and Republicans causing the elimination of Roe v. Wade is that politicians can enact laws putting women in jail who get abortions. And Arizona judges can uphold those laws.

Rusty said...

Mutaman said...
What's the over under that you someday contribute something meaningful?
I know. 0.

PETE. said...

Can't get your abortion in Arizona anymore? New Mexico and California aren't too far away. This is compromise and extremists on both sides need to learn to live with it.

Rich said...

“Can't get your abortion in Arizona anymore? New Mexico and California aren't too far away. This is compromise and extremists on both sides need to learn to live with it.”

This needs to go in an ad where a woman is fighting for her life worried that she’ll die of sepsis before she can get treatment.

Red states are trying to make traveling for an abortion illegal.

Achilles said...

Mutaman said...

What's the over/under for number of abortions Trump has paid for? I'll go with 5, bearing in mind that he probably welched on paying for a few.

Just keep letting the world know how stupid you are.

Yinzer said...

Lindsey Graham is a loud-mouth blowhard who has never accomplished anything in the way of policy or legislation. He should stop talking.

Drago said...

Mutaman: "What's the over/under for number of abortions Trump has paid for? I'll go with 5, bearing in mind that he probably welched on paying for a few."

LOL

Mutaman needs his daily New Trump Hoax "fix"!

Mutaman gets the shakes whenever he has to go 48 hours without a new fake story to make himself feel better.

Someone get this man a new "dossier"!

Mike Petrik said...

Trump cannot indulge disagreement on anything. If you disagree with him on anything he will be as vicious as a toddler's temper tantrum. The fact that he is a superior alternative to our current president exposes how pathetic our current president is.

Michael McNeil said...

Folks might want to look here (Wikipedia) for a map of the abortion restrictions country by country in Europe.

Best I can tell from it, every country in Europe (barring some of the really minor “nations” such as Andorra) has tighter restrictions on abortion than 15 weeks except for: Sweden (18 weeks), Iceland (20 weeks), Great Britain and the Netherlands (24 weeks).

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Closeted homosexuals like Miss Lindsey and Chuck should not get any input on abortion policy.

walter said...

Yinzer said...
Lindsey Graham is a loud-mouth blowhard who has never accomplished anything in the way of policy or legislation.
--
But he will outsprint everyone to get to a camera and promise to "get to the bottom".

walter said...

logger Michael McNeil said...
every country in Europe (barring some of the really minor “nations” such as Andorra) has tighter restrictions on abortion than 15 weeks except for: Sweden (18 weeks), Iceland (20 weeks), Great Britain and the Netherlands (24 weeks).
--
To point out the folly of Chuck!'s denials, imagine the howling of the proborts at the notion of a Euro style 15 weeks.

Mark said...

'an issue that should always have been decided by the States, and now will be,' Trump said

That was Monday. Like ancient history. Surprise, surprise, it is no longer operable, as today Trump ripped into the state of Arizona deciding it under their state law.

Of course, we all knew Trump was completely full of shit. And a jackass.

WWMartin said...

10th Amendment

Kirk Parker said...

Lefty Mark,

There isn't the slightest inconsistency withholding that (1) the federal government hasn't the slightest authority in this matter, and (2) Of particular state's legislation or court decisions are unethical, inadvisable, or otherwise wrong.

Drago said...

Kirk Parker: "Lefty Mark,

There isn't the slightest inconsistency withholding that (1) the federal government hasn't the slightest authority in this matter, and (2) Of particular state's legislation or court decisions are unethical, inadvisable, or otherwise wrong."

Kirk, astonishingly enough, Virginia Lawyer Mark wrote the moronic post that compelled you to respond.

That Virginia Lawyer Mark's post was indistinguishable from Dumb Lefty Mark's usual offerings is a testament to how so many DeSantis primary supporters went over the cliff after DeSantis' stunning $200 Million GOPe-directed failure.

Kirk Parker said...

Drago

Sheesh. I guess the rule is, "You can't tell the Marks without a scorecard", and my time is far too valuable to try to figure out which is which apart from their content.

That this is no longer a reliable method is just another pointer to the grand convergence of bogosity that is part of our modern woes.

Drago said...

Kirk: "That this is no longer a reliable method is just another pointer to the grand convergence of bogosity that is part of our modern woes."

Well said.