"... after he left the vice-presidency, and he did it intentionally. This was no accident. Biden had those documents for this specific reason: He believed he had been right on American policy in Afghanistan (and that President Barack Obama had been wrong), and he wanted to paint himself as the visionary hero (and Obama as the heel) in the historical narrative. That’s why Biden shared some of their contents with his ghostwriter — though Hur acknowledges that Biden may have disclosed that classified information inadvertently, citing Biden’s 'lapses in attention and vigilance.' Here’s the single most important piece of evidence in Hur’s report: In a recording made by the ghostwriter in February 2017 — a month after Biden left the vice-presidency — Biden says he had 'just found all the classified stuff downstairs.'... He kept those sensitive documents and said nothing for five more years. Not until 2022 — after the FBI executed its search warrant on Trump at Mar-a-Lago — did Biden’s people alert the authorities...."
Writes Elie Honig, a former federal and state prosecutor, in "The Real Biden Documents Scandal (It’s Not the Old-Man Stuff)" (NY Magazine).
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74 comments:
But, but he cooperated with investigators! He volunteered to return documents, only six years later! He's very different from Trump!
Sounds like law-breaking to me.
Explain to me. How is this different than Trump?
DOJ: “What difference, at this point, does it make?”
Democrats are never held to account. If that isn’t obvious by now, go see your doctor.
People are finally figuring out Hur gave Biden a massive gift, with the small price tag of a weekend of bad press?
Trump is charged. Trump's valet is part of a "conspiracy" because he moved some boxes.
Biden is not charged. Biden aides who moved boxes are not charged. No conspiracy. No long, expensive court case. No drip drip of stories.
Trump is charged in FL a Trump friendly state. No worries about a friendly jury (who cares? the process is the punishment) Biden can't face any jury in DE, PA or DC because they'd automatically find him innocent because he's so old. Uh-huh. Are juries that partisan?
He's the reality: DOJ has let Biden off on every possible legal danger. Biden was VP in 2015, so they slow walked all Hunter stuff in that period. They only want to charge Hunter for things he did when his pops was out of office. Now they find some lawyer who lets him skate on documents...
We no longer have rule of law.
Rule of law says high officials also have to follow the law. Well, now we know that is not true. The Bidens can break all the laws, and avoid trials.
Hunter is only facing trials because it looked too bad, but he will be pardoned so that's a sham, too.
I read that Biden's ghostwriter "deleted" the audio files he had of of Biden talking when he found out that the FBI was investigating Biden. How is this not obstruction?
It turned out the the ghostwriter wasn't computer savvy to know that the "deleting" a file doesn't actually delete it. (It just removes the tag that tells the computer where to find the file and tells the computer that it can use this space to write new stuff.) So the FBI was able to retrieve all those audio files.
Also, just because Biden wasn't charged now, doesn't mean that he didn't commit a crime then.
Well, if they're prosecuting Donald Trump for this, so then must they prosecute Joe (Lunch Pack) Biden for the same offense!
Cue the sock puppets to repeat their mantras as part of the effort to normalize these bizarre double standards in the application of what is notionally "justice" in the United States.
Biden's got such a bad case of dementia that he can't be prosecuted, but his dementia is not so bad that he can't be President until January 2029.Translation: Forget it Ann, he's a Democrat.
Not to mention all of the classified material at the Penn Biden Center that the Chicoms had access to.
Biden is a crook and should spend the rest of his life in prison.
ANYBODY else would be in jail were they not a democrat.
Even though he's President, i wonder what classified documents Biden has been taking home and inadvertently leaving at his home in Delaware? Or will he claim they became declassified by removing them from the White House?
Donald Trump was the president of the United States. He had every authority to whatever documents he wanted and was the primary authority. Joe Biden…was a corrupt 50 year federal hack deeply involved in Treason and graft.
So there’s that.
Whoops Biden IS a treasonous grifter.
If China dropped a 5 megaton DF-41 on Washington DC they would do the whole of humanity an immense favor. Death to the narcissists that spill pure blood in defense of these horrifically evil people.
Aren't these documents covered by sovereign community property rules, just like Trump?
Seems parallel to the narrative that Trump had a binder full of classified documents showing the "Russia-collusion" issue could be resolved in HIS favor.
Almost as if the permanent civil service advisors to elected officials are INSTRUCTING them to take records out of the archives and into the basement. (Or, electronic mail to servers in the guest bathroom...)
Do we remember the BBC comedy about how permanent senior civil servant Sir Humphrey Appleby advised (and manipulated) elected official James Hacker? Fiction, though, surely.
Poor Stuttering Joe, the butt of jokes his entire life. This little episode shows you all you need to know about Joe Biden and what has likely influenced all his decisions since his elementary school. Among those in congress, I doubt that he is unique in that respect.
Since the issue was never brought to trial, Biden can still be prosecuted.
So he was NOT senile when he made the decision to purloin classified documents he had no authority to declassify, and held them for years, in full self-admitted knowledge that they were classified? And that's not prosecutable, but Trump can be prosecuted for holding documents for which he held plenary power of declassification?
Our government is our greatest enemy. It is beyond reform and must be destroyed to its very roots. I'd prefer a peaceful Constitutional convention or negotiated national divorce to bloodshed, but the Democrats are intent on making that impossible.
Beiden the hero, the man in the top 99 percent of his law school class [sic], football star, full ride scholarship, him driven by ego?
Now Barack can:
1. Be a wuss and endorse Beiden, the man who would demonize him. All for the sake of the party.
2. Endorse Kamala and loose.
3. Run Michelle as his proxy, and perhaps win, but be in the line of fire for drips and drabs of leaks that he would not get if they just went away. And look at how Hillary’s run robbed Bill of respect and power. Barack would be doomed to retirement as the “first man.” Party power would flee him.
Choose the form of your destructor, Barack.
It wouldn't be Biden if he wasn't wrong on foreign policy. The fact that he is wrong on multiple levels is a nice touch. A nice magnum opus of egotistical idiocy before sundowning.
"Worse" and "indefensible" aside, he didn't say whether the law makes Trump's conduct actually illegal as compared to Biden's.
Let’s do this part right now because it’s mandatory and important: Trump’s conduct was worse than Biden’s. I’ll say it again: Trump’s conduct was worse. That’s a plain, irrefutable truth; Hur even takes pains to say so — perhaps gratuitously — in his report. Trump took more classified documents than Biden did, he was more careless (or worse) with them, and he obstructed justice (bigly) while Biden did not. But Biden’s conduct is indefensible nonetheless.
"Writes Elie Honig, a former federal and state prosecutor." And senior legal analyst for CNN.
Your descriptor gives his an air of objectivity that is not due. He is a political actor.
"Explain to me. How is this different than Trump?"
Trump was President and at one point had absolute control of the classification of the documents and a right to have them in his possession. Biden never did.
That's how it's different.
Trump’s conduct was worse. That’s a plain, irrefutable truth; Hur even takes pains to say so — perhaps gratuitously — in his report. Trump took more classified documents than Biden did, he was more careless (or worse) with them, and he obstructed justice (bigly) while Biden did not.
So President Trump had no right to declassify the documents, most of which concerned issues like the Russia Hoax, not national security. Is that your position ?
Geez. Someone should do something about this. Sounds serious.
On the flip side, why doesn’t the government use numbered copies and account for all copies?
It’s the same “all animals are equal but some are more equal than others” shite that led Cardinal Comey to decline to prosecute the Wicked Witch of the Swamp. Biden as VP, and Hillary! as SecState were derivative classifiers; they had no authority to declassify anything. The mere possession of classified documents they were not authorized to have, being kept outside of approved storage, etc., is a crime in and of itself with no mens rea requirement. If any of us peons with security clearances did what these entitled assholes did, we’d be making big rocks into small rocks in Leavenworth for up to 20 years - it’s in the friggin’ paperwork all of us sign, and people can and do go to prison for relatively small violations.
Trump’s situation may be different because he was president at the time and therefore could have unilaterally declassified the documents he kept (all classification and declassification authority rests with POTUS), but whether that happened is unclear to me (and studying that situation is not something I’m spending my time on). If he broke the law, he deserves the same punishment a peon would get, and so do Slow Joe and the rapist enabler, and in their cases the evidence is clear-cut, compelling, and obvious. But the Swamp Thing protects its own…
It never ceases to amaze me that we threw away our entire American experiment for Joe Biden. I mean what the fuck.
"Sir Humphrey Appleby"
"The Official Secrets Act exists to protect officials, not secrets."
Trump was President and could declassify anything. Biden wasn't President at the time and couldn't declassify anything. Neither could Hillary even as Secretary of State. Fairly significant difference.
Trump was President and could declassify anything. Biden wasn't President at the time and couldn't declassify anything. Neither could Hillary even as Secretary of State. Fairly significant difference.
So what was Biden's position on Afghanistan? That after killing bin laden we should have called it good and withdrawn?
I would have gotten behind that. As good a figleaf as any.
Yeah, I pointed this out a couple of days ago on a previous Althouse Hur thread. Seems like big news. Kind of undermines Biden’s entire narrative about how he handled the documents.
It sure is strange that some everyday schmuck would notice a huge story that most of our professional media giants completely missed.
Well, if they're prosecuting Donald Trump for this, so then must they prosecute Joe (Lunch Pack) Biden for the same offense!
I think you know better, Cookie. It would be a DC jury. That is why Hur punted.
Note that Joe had no authority (as VP) to take or declassify documents. His "offense" is far worse than Trump's purported offense.
We are no longer all equal under the law.
Explain to me. How is this different than Trump?
It's worse.
Well, yeah, but. There is also the fact that when you are a stupid fuck-up, everyone knows it. There you are, licking the yolk as it drips off the end of your nose. Unless you work for the government. Then it's classified.
"I’ve written hundreds of these documents and reviewed many more."
Certainly is a lot of crime in America. Most of it in DC, apparently.
The documents were found in DE and in PA, not DC.
So it would not be a DC jury.
Just like Trump is in FL court.
So that is not an excuse.
“Trump was President and could declassify anything. Biden wasn't President at the time and couldn't declassify anything. Neither could Hillary even as Secretary of State. Fairly significant difference.”
Actually she could, sometimes. As the Sec of State, she controlled the classified documents created and owned by the State Dept, and probably could have declassified any documents created and owned by her own dept. The problem was that she had plenty of stuff on her illegal private e-mail server that had been created by and was owned by other departments. For example, at the time, a lot of the military targeting in Iraq and Afghanistan required DoS check off. The proposed drone and bombing targeting was highly classified, and owned by other departments. Of course, the Russians, having hacked her server, were getting the targeting information in real time, often before she saw it. Possibly the Chinese and Israelis too. She also received a stream of highly classified information from the Intelligence Community.
The interesting thing here is that VPs don’t ever have plenary declassification authority. It’s that it wasn’t granted by Obama to Biden. GW Bush did grant that authority to his VP, Dick Cheney.
If he took the documents intentionally, then why does it matter that the disclosure to his ghostwriter was likely inadvertent? In most legal scenarios, you are held responsible for the foreseeable results of your intentional actions.
There is an interesting, albeit rather sickening, aspect of human psychology that I have frequently noted, a form of self-justification. If the idiots and criminals in the Legislature were to pass a law tomorrow, against grandmothers hugging their grandchildren, most people would find that absurd and appalling, the police and prosecutors included. But the law is the law, no one is above it, and if you want to keep your job, you have to enforce the law, as it is written (although not so much these days). So, Officer Joe, and Assistant DA Schmo, reluctantly find themselves prosecuting Grandma. And they hate doing it, but it's the law. At first. At first.
But it is not long before Joe finds himself peeking around corners to see if he can't ambush some grandmother -- some "Grabby Granny" as he has started contemptuously referring to older women who hug their grandchildren -- in a moment of unguarded affection. They can't hide from Joe!
And ADA Schmo finds himself, late at night, feverishly reading and re-reading the new law. "Come to bed, Schmo. It's after midnight, and I'm so lonely" hints his horny wife.
"I'll be there in just a minute, Hon", says Schmo. But the minutes pass, and no Schmo. He reads, and reads, and reads again. The problem is, the brat wasn't actually her grandchild, biologically, because her son is adopted. But morally, it's the same as if it was her biological grandchild. And Schmo is a very moral guy. He's going to send that God-damned G-G to prison if it's the last thing he ever does! Thinks she can hug her adopted son's child and get away with it. Not in his county! Thank God Joe was on the case. It's a jungle out there! Good cop, Joe. A little dumb, but hard-working. Me and Joe will get these G-G bitches. Nine to Ninety! How do you like those numbers, Granny? We'll teach you to keep your cotton-pickin' hands off those brats!
I'd say Elie Hornig has got a bad case of the Schmos. Go to bed, Hornig. Get some sleep. The G-G's will still be here in the morning.
he wanted to paint himself as the visionary hero (and Obama as the heel)
Biden has committed a mortal sin. You don't go against Obama. Ever. Biden is a Judas.
"Let another take his office."
It’s sad, but not surprising.
Victor Davis Hanson
@VDHanson
Biden’s lies on top of lies on top of lies.
In the last week, Joe Biden had flat-out lied in the most egregious fashion in so many ways.
In his disastrous press conference of last week, he claimed that special counsel Hur’s report exonerated him. Anyone who read the findings concluded exactly the opposite.
According to Hur, Biden would have been indicted for his willfully unlawful removal of classified documents except for two reasons: one, the Department of Justice protocols apparently prohibit indicting a sitting president; and two, Biden suffers such cognitive decline that the special counsel believes a jury would more likely pity him into acquittal than convict him of what he is certainly guilty.
He lied that Hur brought up his son’s death (“How in the hell dare he raise that?”). In fact, Biden as is his serial wont, raised it, and does on a regular basis, usually deliberately and further lying that his son died while on military duty in Iraq (he died six years subsequently as a civilian in Walter Reed Hospital), and always contorting the death to enhance his own greater sense of grieving.
He lied that he notified authorities when he discovered that he unlawfully had taken out classified documents to various residencies (perhaps for over some 30 plus years during his senatorial and Vice Presidential tenures). In fact, Biden only admitted that he had apparently for decades unlawfully removed classified files in 2017, to his ghostwriter in a recorded tape, and then he hid that fact and kept quiet for five years—until his administration’s special counsel began to investigate Trump for the same thing. Note the worried ghostwriter erased the tape of Biden’s confession as soon as he learned there was an appointment of a special counsel. (Destroy evidence much?)
He lied that the files bore no classification marks. In fact, they did and do.
He lied that he kept the files safe in a secure location. In fact, the special counsel report includes several photographs of the Biden garage, in which there were sloppily stored, open, and torn boxes of classified documents amid a complete mess of junk.
He lied that Trump’s once secure border is somehow responsible for Biden’s intentionally open border.
He just lied that Trump caused the 2022 Putin invasion of Ukraine on Biden’s watch that never occurred on Trump’s.
It is not enough that the Biden team must wildly lie daily that the non-compos-mentis President is dynamic, impressive in his recall and cognition, and stands out as the most astute mind in most of this meetings.
Well apart from his cognitive decline, Biden himself is a pathological prevaricator.
3:06 PM · Feb 16, 2024
This is an embarrassingly false assessment by Mr Honig who is smart and can read but apparently hasn't. All these theories are raised in the report then thoroughly dissembled by facts and evidence.The report by Special Counsel Hur even says there isn’t evidence Biden willfully had documents.
Funny how Elie had to throw in the compulsory “of course Trump was worse” comment. It’s like he has to beg forgiveness from the state-run media cool kids for reporting a story that is unfriendly to their usual narrative.
This was no accident. Biden had those documents for this specific reason: He believed he had been right on American policy in Afghanistan (and that President Barack Obama had been wrong), and he wanted to paint himself as the visionary hero (and Obama as the heel) in the historical narrative.This was no accident. Biden had those documents for this specific reason: He believed he had been right on American policy in Afghanistan (and that President Barack Obama had been wrong), and he wanted to paint himself as the visionary hero (and Obama as the heel) in the historical narrative.
Well now, we knew that Obama didn't a whole lot respect his VP, but now we learn that the feeling was mutual. And perhaps Joe Biden was right about Afghanistan, though with respect to foreign policy that would be an all-time first.
OTOH, between Joe Biden, Anthony Blinken, Lloyd Austin, and Mark Milley the US withdrawal from Afghanistan resembled more an army that has been routed than a potent military force making an orderly withdrawal. The contrast between the Biden administrations' helter-skelter, panicky departure from Kabul Airport and the slow and careful Russian disengagement in 1988-1989 couldn't be more embarassing to the US. On February 15, 1989, when the last Russian troops in Afghanistan crossed the poorly-named "Friendship Bridge" back onto Russian soil, General Boris Grimov was the last person to leave, pointedly walking slowly across the bridge as if daring the Afghans to shoot him in the back. About halfway across he was mobbed by TV crews, and it is reported that he thoroughly cussed them out. (Russian is a great language for cussing people out.)
I've read that Grimov's memoirs include some pointed comments about politicians that get their countries into wars, leaving other people to clean up the resulting mess. If true then there's a message in there that we here in the US should take to heart. Especially after observing the Biden administration's debacle while exiting Afghanistan.
Did we ever get all of our citizens out? Does anybody care who isn't a Republican?
It never ceases to amaze me that we threw away our entire American experiment for Joe Biden. I mean what the fuck.
You certainly cannot think the "American experiment" was "thrown away" only with the advent of Biden to the Oval office!
"We are no longer all equal under the law."
You certainly cannot think we ever have been equal under the law!
Howitzer Howard, Overcompensating non-combat "vet": "Aren't these documents covered by sovereign community property rules, just like Trump?"
It appears Howard is simply throwing darts at dictionaries now.
Hur was a law clerk for Chief Justice William Rehnquist of the U.S. Supreme Court from 2002 to 2003.
On November 1, 2017, Hur was nominated by President Donald Trump to be the next United States Attorney for the District of Maryland.
I don't think that Hur has any animosity towards Trump.
Explain to me. How is this different than Trump?
Well, for one ... it's worse.
This is just a disgraceful rerun of the Hillary whitewash with different players.
As my wife says the coup by corrupt Democrats is somewhere between 60-80% completed with the assistance of uniparty Republicans.
The New York "fraud" case is beyond absurd. Fani Willis pays her lover $650k to file racketeering charges against Trump and others. And QuidProJoe can hardly make it to the podium, but he ought to be re-elected - not prosecuted.
Wow!
Not mentioned (intentionally?) in Hur's report is if biden directed ghostwriter Zwonitzer to delete the the files of the classified evidence he shared with him in the interviews for his memoirs. Hur 'absolutely' tied up the loose ends and got him off the hook.
Why ddnt they just slap another meaningless fine on Trump?
IRS audit of Elsie Honig in 3,2,1...
Who is "the Ghostwriter," and why isn't this person being prosecuted for knowingly attempting to destroy evidence of a crime?
Is the media at least a little bit curious about this?
So the old dog is going to skate. Any dog with a D after his or her name gets a get out of jail free card--even better--never charged card.
Just for fun, Trump's lawyers should file a motion in his documents case alleging he is unable to meaningfully participate in his defense due to some mental defect.
"I think you know better, Cookie. It would be a DC jury. That is why Hur punted."
Jury, schmury. It's Biden's DOJ. That's why skates. More egregious is Biden's DOJ's prosecution of his opponent.
This is just a disgraceful rerun of the Hillary whitewash with different players.
As my wife says the coup by corrupt Democrats is somewhere between 60-80% completed with the assistance of uniparty Republicans.
The New York "fraud" case is beyond absurd. Fani Willis pays her lover $650k to file racketeering charges against Trump and others. And QuidProJoe can hardly make it to the podium, but he ought to be re-elected - not prosecuted.
Wow!
This is classic, Rich- classic:
"All these theories are raised in the report then thoroughly dissembled by facts and evidence."
LMAO!!!! I bet you have no idea why I am laughing at you, do you?
Does Hur even mention all the thousands of pages FJB had in an unsecured room in the university library? What was there? Who had access to it? When did he remove it from govt custody? Dirty bastid.
Blogger Rusty said...
Explain to me. How is this different than Trump?
2/17/24, 12:06 PM
Well, for one thing Trump was complying with the national archives and kept his docs under lock and key. Also, Trump, through his lawyers, negotiating to return the docs. And third, Trump had the legal right to possess the documents and to declassify them. Biden took them illegally and had no right to declassify them.
"”We are no longer all equal under the law."
You certainly cannot think we ever have been equal under the law!“
I don’t understand what you are saying, cook man. So I will just leave it there. Trump is not above the law but others are.
hombre said...
This is just a disgraceful rerun of the Hillary whitewash with different players.
As my wife says the coup by corrupt Democrats is somewhere between 60-80% completed with the assistance of uniparty Republicans.
2/17/24, 7:53 PM
THIS!!!^^^^
Re Interested Bystander
Absolutely.
Trump was negotiating with National Archives and then DOJ went aggressive on him.
Also note this article on the judgement about Clinton's audiotapes https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/old-case-over-audio-tapes-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-impact
I'm sure, if you want, you can distinguish between the Clinton case, Biden and Trump, but all you're really doing is showing that there two standards of justice in the US.
It is a little surprising that there are few direct (point-by-point) comparisons of the Biden documents case vs. Trump's, not only a list of offenses but an indication of sensitivity. And I find that very little attention has been drawn to the classified information that Hunter Biden had placed into his job-seeking reports to Burisma that purported to add depth to his background and his grasp of far-Eastern energy markets - information derived from the documents that Biden had illegally retained as Vice President. I still think that Hur's report was an exercise of realpolitik, in that he knows Biden will never be prosecuted by this DOJ. I don't see his report as being a Free Pass.
Not until 2022 — BECAUSE the FBI executed its search warrant on Trump at Mar-a-Lago — did Biden’s people alert the authorities...."
fify!
Seriously, IF the news hadn't reported about Trump.. Would we EVER have heard about Biden's trove?
Thanks IB. The usual suspects would do well to remember that.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
"New York’s Democrat governor assures real estate developers that they won’t be targeted for real estate valuations like Trump. She just admitted it was a purely partisan political prosecution of Trump."
The efforts to get Trump remind of the old Looney Toons cartoon of a character who was using a shotgun to get rid of a fly, and ended up shooting his own home to pieces.
" bet you have no idea why I am laughing at you, do you?"
That was one of the funniest Freudian slips I have ever seen.
Hah! Hur was sure wrong about Biden being a senile old dotard who can't keep his facts straight. Now he thinks that Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan are all in NATO.
https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1759013087238111639
Read the article, it seems reasonable enough and the author has the legal background to discuss the issue and the nuances.
But then she lost me when she confidently asserts that there is still no doubt that what Trump did with his cache of government documents was much worse than what Biden did.
I am sincerely asking, what am I missing? The factors that the author asserts that allegedly make Trump's conduct so much worse just don't seem obviously egregious. It's as though she's saying, "Well, politician X misused campaign funds to renovate his kitchen, and politician Y misused campaign funds to build a deck off his house. Obviously, what politician X did was much worse---even though they both broke similar types of campaign law and both used the funds for home improvements." Wait, what??
One was presiden
On was a vice president
One had secret documents in a locked room in their house.
One had secret documents in their garage
One had secret documents at the Univerity of Pennsylvania.
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