"After full gender reassignment surgery at 47, she initially embraced trans activism before starting to believe its central precepts — that trans people are 'born in the wrong body' and can literally change sex — are both false and unhealthy for trans people. For this she was ostracised and denounced... She is, as per the title of her new memoir, a 'transsexual apostate.'... [She] broaches the biggest trans taboo by arguing many men who transition — including herself — are driven by '
autogynephilia' (AGP), literally the desire for oneself as a woman.... A few months after surgery, she was invited to a seminar on trans rights where she heard a feminist academic... point out that the concept of 'gender identity,' on which it was predicated, was totally undefined. Hayton realised that, having transformed her body to align with her supposed female gender identity, she had no proof it existed. So what had compelled her real, urgent need to be seen as a woman?"
From
"Debbie Hayton: the trans woman taking on the trans activists/She was married with children when she transitioned. But when Debbie Hayton began questioning the idea that people with gender dysphoria are born in the wrong body, she found herself under attack by the trans community" (London Times).
What about Stephanie, the woman Debbie had married?
Transition often ends in divorce, yet they have managed to repurpose their marriage, sharing a room but not a bed, both now celibate. “It does work,” says Hayton of her remodelled genitalia, “but it’s not as easy. And without the testosterone in your body, you just can’t be bothered.” Both say they are bonded by love and a long shared history. Debbie notes that while she gained her female self, her wife lost the man she married. And Stephanie, feisty and tough, balks at the idea she is a passive victim, a “trans widow”. “I feel sad at times, but I’m at peace and Debbie is so much happier.”
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37 comments:
For this she was ostracised and denounced
Apparently you have the right to choose your sexual organs but not your thoughts about them.
What a monstrously selfish thing to do, to a relationship.
When I was in my late teens, early twenties, I worked at a department store called Caldor in Connecticut. There was a woman who worked there, that was married with 3 preteen kids. Her husband started going through transitioning way back then (late 70's early 80's). She was staying with him. Nobody was attacking them. Nobody made fun of them. They were adults. Not my business. IF they were doing this to their underaged children, I think it may have gone differently.
There is a professor emerita on the polisci faculty at the University of Nebraska-Omaha named Meredith Bacon f/k/a Wally Bacon.
Wally was married to the French teacher at Creighton Prep. My son was in that French class.
While he was in high school, this story came out. There was a big spread in People magazine showing them sitting on their bed. They stayed married.
The boys in the French class knew all about this. But they stayed quiet.
"Historically, the movement toward androgyny occurs in late phases of culture as a civilization is starting to unravel. From the perspective of historical distance, it's a culture that no longer believes in itself. And then what you invariably get are people who are convinced of the power of heroic masculinity starting to mass on the outsides of the culture. there is a tremendous disconnect between the transgender culture and what's going on out there"
- Camille Paglia
What is going on is not unprecedented for any middling student of history. They just don't want you poking around trying to figure out what happens to cultures and societies that keep tunneling down this rabbit hole.
many men who transition — including herself
himself. Nobody can understand trans stories with the pronouns reversed.
Tough shit buddy.
Wouldn’t it have been better for them both if he had simply gone to the basement and pranced around for 30 minutes in heels, red lipstick, and a cute skirt? He could feel himself up, squirt out a wad, and be done with it.
- Krumhorn
Stolen from twitter:
“I believe that if the general public actually knew what modern trans or autogynephilia really is, if they saw and heard what these men post online, this bullshit would end in a drop second. These aren't the transsexuals of the past, they're male predators.“
I think most people, especially women think of transwomen as Dylan Mulvaney types. Former gay men who are not a threat due to their sexuality, and are essentially the gay best friend who can come with you into the bathroom.
And maybe that used to be the majority of transsexual men. But there’s about 2.9% of men who have autogynephilia…a fetish that used to be hidden in bedrooms, even away from their sure-to-disapprove wives. But with this new trans acceptance, these p0rnsick men (it’s almost all driven by sissy p0rn, trans p0rn, or sometimes even CP) feel free to come out into the world boldly and proudly. Go onto the r/mtf subreddit, and you will find post after post of stories or “euphoria boners,” masturbating in women’s bathrooms/dressing rooms, or at least women’s panties in their own house. They claim they are lesbian ((they’re straight men, after all), and any female lesbian who won’t date them because of their “girl dick” or “princess wand” or whatever gross euphemism they choose is called a transphobe. It’s the new version of telling lesbians “you just haven’t had the right dick yet.” Seriously, even Mr. Beast’s friend Chris who recently came out as a transwoman has a history of problematic tweets discussing the type of p0rn he got off from, including “loli” which is anime-style with the characters appearing to be underage. If a straight man decides to transition, 100% he is an autogynephile. And we women are supposed to gladly use the restrooms and changing rooms with this perverts.
Honestly, I could go on, but you get the point.
Social media amplifier for the 0.0001% freak show to strike fear uncertainty and doubt into the weak hearts and simple minds of Pavlov's Dogs.
The algorithms are tuned to gnat straining.
You do not really understand what it is to be a man or to be a woman. You understand what it is to be you.
Where a lot of this goes wrong is the person decides to know what it is to be the other sex, usually based exclusively on stereotypes and cliches, often exaggerated stereotypes and cliches. This is an irrational position. Once you have declared your irrationality to be the absolute truth, it leads to all sorts of irrational solutions to the problem at hand. This only becomes worse if the individual is already suffering from other mental illnesses, which most, arguably all, transgenders are.
As to the denouncements, when your entire life revolves around denouncing not only objective reality but yourself - transgenderism, at its core, is a rejection of self - anyone who threatens your "truth" must be destroyed. To face that your core beliefs are wrong is difficult for anyone, and it is especially difficult for someone with mental illness who has already gone to extreme measures to try to make those core beliefs reality.
"Apparently you have the right to choose your sexual organs but not your thoughts about them."
Apparently you have the right to pretend to choose your sexual organs but not your thoughts about them.
Fixed it.
"What a monstrously selfish thing to do, to a relationship."
There are worse and more common selfish behaviors (if that's what this is) that do terrible things to relationships all the time. These worse behaviors are omnipresent and frequent around the world and historically.
"Nobody can understand trans stories with the pronouns reversed."
I certainly can't.
He wants to be the female sex or feminine gender (e.g. sexual orientation)? Is he homosexual with a heterosexual fetish or bisexual rejected in politically congruent clubs?
Like almost everything else in life, fake pales in comparison to real.
South Park, once again, has done this subject much earlier and much better. The transitioned Ms. Garrison demanding a period pretty much covered the subject in full.
I'm very familiar with Debby Hayton's writings. She comes across as a rational, nice person. The crazy/awful thing to me is that she has stated that she felt a tremendous need to transition because it was an undeniable, permanent feature of her sexuality. She HAD to think of herself as a woman in order to be a sexual being.
And yet, her sexual desires have disappeared due to the physical changes. She is celibate.
I have to wonder, had she understood beforehand that sexual activity was going to disappear from her life completely---become a moot issue---would she still have decided to make a physical and/or a social transition?
This is a subject about which I know nothing and wish to know nothing. I've never known any transsexuals, but from pictures I've seen they look off putting--except for those who look good and that's a different kind of disturbing. I don't feel any hostility or fear of transsexuals, but I think they look weird. I don't think any amount of sensitivity training will change that. People are born that way, i.e. they organically look sideways at transsexuals. That said, most people are willing to treat curious people politely and to condemn bullies.....If radical weight loss is a heath risk for older adults, doesn't all the surgery and hormone therapy also pose some health risks? As someone above pointed out, wouldn't the safer, more responsible way to handle such a problem be to role play on weekends or in private and to just get by at other times.....Everyone's looking for a fast car but there are none available with sufficient speed and velocity to escape the surly bonds of earth.
This guy really fucked his wife.
Not literally, of course...
Btw, has anyone ever done a study to find out if these trans people are just garden variety gay?
I know, everyone loves gays these days so it doesn't make you special anymore.
You have to take it up a notch...metaphorically...
I wonder if there is a way that one could know definitively whether one was male or female, a man or a woman.
I know - the fact that he got a woman pregnant and fathered children. End of scientific analysis.
I don't feel any hostility or fear of transsexuals, but I think they look weird.
They don't pass the Turing test - it's not just for robots.
I have a lot of respect for the spouses who stay with the transitioned person to whom they made a commitment - it is a very high sacrifice, in terms of sex life, how others change their view of you (the couple) and you (the individual) upon learning of this, etc. If only hetero couples were this committed, we wouldn't have the insanely high divorce rates and child-out-of-wedlock rates that are so harmful to society.
Robert Cook:
These worse behaviors are omnipresent and frequent around the world and historically.
And they would be?
Crazy people are crazy. Duh. But this is kind of interesting;
"To face that your core beliefs are wrong is difficult for anyone ...".
I would think that once you face the fact that they are wrong, they are no longer your "core beliefs". I have been studying physics for half a century, and it is still a process of realizing that everything I intuitively understand is actually merely a facet of something larger and more interesting that I don't understand. Yet. I used to find this deeply unsettling, but I have learned to deal with it, and even enjoy it. I suppose it's different when it involves cutting your balls off.
I recall you posting an article similar to this a few years ago and you wondered if it was fair to the wife that her husband became a woman.
Personally, I think that the husband was being too selfish by surgically castrating himself to become a woman. If you marry someone, you make a commitment to them to try and make them happy. If you're single, it's one thing, but if you're married, you have to take your partner's needs into account.
'I have a lot of respect for the spouses who stay with the transitioned person to whom they made a commitment - it is a very high sacrifice...'
I can see your point, but hubby changed the rules in the middle of the game.
It would be as if a celibate couple got married, and on the honeymoon the husband finds out his 'wife' is actually a man.
These people are (a) mentally ill (b) mentally ill and malevolent (c) both (a) and (b). Do not get involved with them, you will be badly hurt.
"[She] broaches the biggest trans taboo by arguing many men who transition — including herself — are driven by 'autogynephilia' (AGP), literally the desire for oneself as a woman..."
Not to be confused with autogyrophilia, which is a desire for flying craft that use a rotor for lift, but are different from helicopters.
As sorry as I feel for people as unhappy and confused as Hayton, I feel far more empathy for those who must deal with the world's Haytons.
Jupiter, I agree that once someone admits that their core beliefs are wrong, that does allow that person to reconsider. The problem is when you have based your entire life, meaning, and existence around a set of core beliefs, getting to that point is exceedingly difficult as it more or less rips the person from any sort of context. That is quite terrifying. It is especially terrifying when (a) admitting the truth leads to the realization that the person has done things that are objectively terrible and there is no way to fix it, and (b) the person is suffering from narcissism (very common among transgenders) so admitting error is even more of an anathema. It is easier to kill the messenger in these situations.
This is not something limited to transgenders, of course. In the history of the scientific community when a new theory completely upends the conventional thinking, usually the worst enemies of the new guy are the established scientific community. The old guard does not want to admit they could be wrong, or for that matter have to explain why they got paid for the past several decades to teach something that was not true.
Depending on his wife's libido or lack thereof, might have been a relief.
the man fulfills his fantasy and keeps the cozy family and slave, excuse me, a woman to run the house and obey him.
So woman gets the bad end of the deal: Housework, dependency on a narcissist, feeling guilty if she doesn't go along with it, and now to make things worse societal pressure to go along with his whims.
Why should she? Love? What? A one sided love where you are expected to be a doormat to a man's whims?
Notice that here the woman is assumed to be okay if she obeys her husband's whims?
Might there be financial pressures to do so? Trying to at least protect the appearance of a family? And now pressure from the PC to do this.
As for the man: one wag put it: They don't want to be women, but prom queens. The fantasy.
Not to be confused with autogyrophilia, which is a desire for flying craft that use a rotor for lift, but are different from helicopters.
Oh, I thought it was an overwhelming desire to consume shaved lamb, lettuce, tomato, onion and feta cheese on a pita with tzatziki sauce in your car.
"Not to be confused with autogyrophilia, which is a desire for flying craft that use a rotor for lift, but are different from helicopters."
So that's what it is. I thought it was the subconscious desire to fill one's orifices with mock-lamb, tomatoes, lettuce and tzatziki sauce and reach climax while devouring oneself. George Costanza (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3DG4RN_DNQ) would approve.
Journalists don't do stories in which the wife is free to tell the truth. It's a sickening betrayal and torment to the children. But when people as socially powerful as the Kardashians and Jenner's other family face persecution for even mildly objecting to Bruce Jenner's sex change, then ordinary women and children trapped by the fetish of their father and husband -- imprisoned by militant activists to silence themselves, or else -- they know to shut up and pretend they're good with it.
Ride Space Mountain is certainly full of pep.
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