Said Chris Philp, the policing minister, quoted by Giles Coren, in "Oi! Drop that strimmer or I’ll use my Taser/We part-time coppers who’ve answered the government’s call to arms have a lot more than shoplifters to worry about" (London Times).
Here's the requisite scene from "The Andy Griffith Show." I've got to get that out of the way first. Now, on to Coren's commentary on Philp's amazing advice:
... I am standing here by the Twixes in aisle seven, just down a bit from “baking”, in my too-small uniform and children’s plastic police helmet, with my shiny shoes on and my hands behind my back, regularly flexing my knees and giving out a merry “Evenin’ all” to honest citizens, while ready with my handcuffs to apprehend any villains, should they make an unauthorised grab for a snack, magazine, soft drink or similar. Unfortunately, the handcuffs in question are pink furry ones, for which, again, I blame Amazon. And I will admit they look a bit funny clipped to my belt....
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42 comments:
If you see something, tase someone.
Sounds like a great way to get yourself killed. Amazon in MUCH safer.
Confectionary Punishment. It's cute, until they start targeting Korean-Americans and other people without color.
Bag limits is social justice and a redistributive solution to progressive prices that is in part forced by shared responsibility.
"Where it's safe to do so?"
And where might that be in a rampaging mob of black teens?
I've often wondered what I'd do if I witnessed a blatant shoplifting occurring in my vicinity. Not at all sure. Is it worth getting shot (yeah, this is the US, not the UK) over a 12-pack of beer? Is a way forward to have trained and legally deputized guards (Tasers, no guns) in each store? That could get ugly very quickly...and then the lawsuits would follow. Other than a home center and a grocery store, can't remember the last time I went in-person "shopping."
Many stores have non-interference policies where they will suspend or even fire an employee who confronts a shoplifter. This excerpt makes me wonder--if that employee claimed they were trying to make a citizen's arrest, could the company be liable for violating his civil rights by retaliating?
Remember!
When seconds count..
The police are just Minutes away
He's got a Taser? Sounds better armed than most UK police.
Wonderful demonstration, in its way, of the reasons why 'broken windows' policing was devised, and what happens when prosecutors decide not to enforce laws against crimes such as shoplifting, vandalism and the like.
I'm rereading The Psychopath Test, and this piece prompted three thoughts:
1. I imagine the motivation for not prosecuting shoplifters is because lawmakers of that turn of mind think of shoplifting as a nonviolent, even victimless crime (they say that it's because shoplifters only commit their crimes out of "need" but I wonder whether they believe what they say). That is, truly violent individuals don't bother with petty little things like shoplifting. So maybe this is why this policing minister thinks there will be no problem with encouraging private citizens to confront shoplifters: they're "nonviolent offenders."
2. But some percentage of them, and I think we can all agree a higher percentage of them than in the general non-offending population, are going to be bored psychopaths (but I repeat myself) who either haven't yet found a way to assuage their boredom or who are between diversions, and they're going to get violent. In these cases, the citizen-police may well get hurt.
3. However, maybe these lawmakers also figure that if these unexpectedly violent escalations occur, it will be because they are committed by psychopaths, who don't learn from or take constructive steps to avoid punishment, so the threat of legal consequences wouldn't have deterred them anyway.
Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom - it's nobody's fault.
I am a strong believer in the principle that gun control laws primarily affect the already law-abiding and don't significantly deter the lawless, which seems in a way to put me on the same side as these non-prosecuting lawmakers. But it doesn't, because the absence of gun control laws doesn't provide a financial incentive for a normally law-abiding person to spend the hundreds or thousands of dollars on a gun and ammunition and range time that would enable that law-abiding person to use a gun effectively in commission of a crime, whereas announcing that the prosecution of a theft of less than $1000 won't be pursued does provide a financial incentive for any person who might just be in a hurry that day to pocket that pack of gum.
First responders.
Korean shop owners come highly reccomended. They're the honey badger of shop owners. Completely eliminating the need for police.
No one will make a citizen's arrest because to do so will immediately land your ass in jail in today's clown world cities.
I wonder whether the "citizen's beat-down" might be more effective.
San Francisco business owners say that the unarmed community ambassadors patrolling the area are doing nothing to deter crime, according to The San Francisco Standard.
I'm dumbfounded.
And I will admit they look a bit funny clipped to my belt....
That's right, make light of it. We assume Giles Coren has a secure home somewhere on a private island with well-armed security when London devolves into Portland East.
Before blowing it with his display of thoughtless arrogance, Barney Fife makes a valid point about the law and the citizen's duty to uphold it. Before there were cops, an institution with barely 200 years of history, there was only the hew and cry to every adult male within earshot to stop thief! To fail to heed the hew and cry, to ignore one's duty was to invite arrest as an accessory to the criminal deed and summary judgment. We're headed that way once more at breakneck speed if the Democrats remain in power much longer. Must we tolerate San Francisco as the Mogadishu before the hew and cry is raised against Gavin Newsom?
I don't understand people wanting to stop shoplifting by "citizens arrest" in Large stores. These stores know what's going on, and its their responsibity to stop theft. If they don't want to, thats up to their owners and their shareholders.
Let them do their jobs. Its certainly not my job to make sure Target or Walmart or BigStore USA keeps their profit margin up.
Of course if you live in a small town with a locally owned business its different.
I don't understand people wanting to stop shoplifting by "citizens arrest" in Large stores. These stores know what's going on, and its their responsibity to stop theft. If they don't want to, thats up to their owners and their shareholders.
Let them do their jobs. Its certainly not my job to make sure Target or Walmart or BigStore USA keeps their profit margin up.
Of course if you live in a small town with a locally owned business its different.
BTW, the Democrats and the Left have made it quite clear that in ANY interaction between whites and People of color (especially black), the white person is guilty until proven innocent. Dan Perry is the latest to learn that lesson.
Don't like that? Do something about it.
They aren't going to change. And what motivates their anti-white bias is upon to interpetation.
BTW, the Democrats and the Left have made it quite clear that in ANY interaction between whites and People of color (especially black), the white person is guilty until proven innocent. Dan Perry is the latest to learn that lesson.
Don't like that? Do something about it.
They aren't going to change. And what motivates their anti-white bias is upon to interpetation.
"Because if you do just let people walk in, take stuff and walk out without proper challenge, including potentially a physical challenge, then again it will just escalate."
"Oh yeah? Well, I arrest you back for assault and battery!"
Unarmed community ambassadors ineffective? The hell you say...
On the other hand San Fran has hired several people through the program, so there is that.
The problem isn't the policing. Stores have provided their own security guards that could do it. The problem is no DA will prosecute, because they made it a policy not to prosecute. In between, you can't detain them, because that's illegal and will likely get you in jail.
See bodega owner that's suing NYC DA for what happens when you try to protect your store.
Start wearing hoodies and masks when shopping. Then you can beat down any shoplifters in your vicinity and the local prosecutors will simply let you go.
Deterrence of petty theft was once driven by the prevalence within the population of a desire to avoid punishment, plus the self respect needed to say to oneself, "I don't do stuff like that". It has become painfully clear that we've developed a critical mass of people who don't expect to be punished for petty theft, and who manifestly are NOT saying to themselves, "I don't do stuff like that". This is how one transitions from a high trust society to a low trust society, how you morph from Sweden into Russia.
Low trust societies are inefficient, spiritually dead, and on a path to dystopia. Citizens arrest is an idiotic solution. It would help a great deal to have politicians with courage and an unashamedly strong moral sense. I am not going to hold my breath waiting for that.
(I just got out of a 16-day stint in the hospital. Glad to be back reading your great blog, AA.)
I thought sure you were going to link to this episode from TAGS, "The Shoplifters". Here's a two minute clip. A bonus: an appearance by the PBJ sandwich-eating little boy, Leon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z63XGBTUh2w
All criminals should know that while in the commission of any crime they are subject to the death penalty while committing it. Or serious bodily harm. If the latter they’ll also be responsible for all medical costs required to keep them alive.
But is a case of beer worth a life?
If the thief knows he may die while stealing it- he’s made the decision it is, not the person who stopped him with deadly force.
For a long period England culled it’s criminal class with the death penalty for relatively minor crimes. And during that time and for quite a while after- English streets were safe to walk around and their byways safe to travel on without escorts. No longer the case since they started importing 3rd worlders to do the crimes the English wouldn’t.
The invaders crossing our border are mostly military age males. Historically a source of trouble. And crime. Gonna take a while and serious effort to cull the criminals among them.
The furry handcuffs may deter some potential shoplifters: "Now, just what sort of jail would I be sent to?"
If a Citizen uses their 'citizens arrest' powers and goofs up the arrest THEY CAN BE SUED by those arrested...
Duh....
Plus you might get stabbed, shot, clubbed, stomped on, punched, etc... just a knock down drag out fight to stop what??? Shoplifters in a store you don't even own? I don't have a dog in that fight people, savvy?
Now if Texas, where I live, gave them immunity from lawsuits (as they do under the Castle Doctrine) then maybe... cause I go armed and have some pretty fair H2H skills.
But they don't ... so I won't.
“If you see something, tase someone”
😆 LOeling here with @kevin comment.
We already filling in our potholes, (see governator).
What will they have us do next?
Fill in our neighbors absentee vote ballot?
“First responders”
This is one thread I would happily show up alive last.
All store owners should have absolute immunity from liability so long as they use reasonable force to deter the crime.
Reminds me of San Francisco wharf area in 1998 was densely packed with shoppers in hundreds of shops, but today is a war zone where lawless scum and police both attack rental cars as targets of opportunity. It’s dead now as a tourist attraction.
You know who is trying to use the Citizen Arrest laws for their own benefit? AntiFA! After Rittenhouse shot his first assailant, their justification for following him, knocking him down and assaulting him was that they were trying to effect a citizens arrest of him for shooting (and killing) his irate assailant. Turns out that Rittenhouse hadn’t committed a crime there (according to the jury), so their assault on him was not privileged. Plus, he was running towards the police… Still, I think that you can see some of the problems with the Citizen’s Arrest laws. In many states, mistake, as made here by the thugs attacking him, negates the defense, but not so, with my reading of the WI statute.
In one of Heinlein's stories, the shopowner has a shrunken head of a robber on his wall..
Which (in THAT universe; was Perfectly Legal). No memory of rules for shoplifting
It is worth noting that the phrase "hew and cry" has its roots in the Middle Ages when the term "human cry" was used. During this time, citizens were expected to shout a vigilant alarm or human cry when a crime was being committed. The cry would be answered by neighbors who acted as vigilantes to protect life, limb, and property. Nowadays, people are afraid to raise a human cry for fear of being charged with disturbing the peace. While vigilantes were once considered the good guys, they are now viewed as the worst of the worst because they take the law into their own hands, just as the police are asking them to do.
Stores should seed their shelves with merchandise containing gizmos. If you pay for the merchandise, the cashier disarms the gizmo. Otherwise it assumes control of your phone and causes it to scream “I’m being stolen! This person is a thief! Help me!” incessantly at 120 dB, before heating itself to the melting point and burning a hole in your clothes. Variant gizmos would have other tricks, like just calling the nearest police station over and over.
A few such spectacles would convince many people shoplifting was a losing proposition.
Not my circus. Not my monkeys.
"The wider public do have the power of citizen’s arrest... And, where it’s safe to do so... I would encourage that to be used" — on election fraud!""
FIFY. Based on the accusations over the last two decades, it would make for fun times every four years.
Here's the part nobody will say out loud.
Every employer drills into their employees' heads that if THEY shoplift, they will be arrested and prosecuted to the highest extent of the law, and their work future will be ruined.
But we are not to disturb the shoplifters.
So we go to work, monitored constantly by cameras, followed into bathrooms, disciplined for stepping outside for a breath of air, all while working our asses off for shit wages while watching the scum of the earth stroll in, destroy displays we carefully built, openly steal, and stroll out.
The criminals hold guns to our heads behind the shipping docks and steal our purses from the break room, but only we get punished, even if we did nothing, and it's a firing offense to even call the police if you witness crime.
Ralph Lauren's policies are so extreme that that little sun-kissed yacht bitch endangers every one of his employees' lives every day. But every retail employer acts more or less the same.
And our employers never hesitate to call the police on us.
This is why we hate you. This is why we hate that moron who got himself stabbed in Bed Sty -- mere blocks from where my much-victimized, decent, hard-working grandparents, aunts, and mother had to flee due to daily violent crime -- before WWII.
This is why I laughed at his death. Laughter is better than revolution. For now. We're done.
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