Flowery prose in The Washington Post celebrating the destruction of a work of art — "Charlottesville’s Lee statue meets its end, in a 2,250-degree furnace
Melted down in secret, the divisive Confederate monument will be turned into a new piece of public art."
"[O]n Saturday the museum went ahead with its plan in secret at this small Southern foundry, in a town and state The Washington Post agreed not to name because of participants’ fears of violence... They made arrangements for Lee to be melted down while they started collecting ideas from city residents for that new sculpture.... Some [of the witnesses to the melting] said the statue was being destroyed. Others called it a restoration. Depending on who you asked, the bronze was being reclaimed, disrupted, or redeemed to a higher purpose. It was a grim act of justice and a celebration all in one...."
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142 comments:
Please...reLEEse me...set me free...
Engelbert Humperdink for the win.
My only problem with this is the usual: these clowns have no idea what kind of monster they're turning loose. So long as we all held to the notion that "art" was exempt from ongoing political agendas, so that a statue of a dead guy who fought in some war was NOT going to become Literally This Racist OMG and thus demanding a new sacrifice --of talent, history, context-- in order to purify the State in which we now shelter: so long as that notion held, we were more or less OK.
No more. "And what rough beast, its hour come round at last...?"
..."agreed not to name them, for fear of violence..."
And yet, such violence has never occurred, except at the hands of those that now claim to be in fear; the ones that politically charged the statue in the first place and pulled it down, as a mob.
And now, the city's leadership has taken a publically-owned asset and secretly disposed of it, but in a way chosen to maximize the political value of the symbolic destruction by fire.
Read this, now: https://www.libertystorch.info/2023/10/24/they-want-you-to-notice/
The history of our country is being destroyed by the present day Red Guards. China eventually recovered but I wonder if we will ?
Barbarism.
Wasn't this an episode on "Star Trek"??
Fears of violence? That's a fantasy cooked up in their minds. The only political violence of note is on the Left.
But, of course, WaPo has the story.
The new statue should be of St. George Floyd. A guy who died of a drug overdose. A convicted felon and drug addict who changed the course of American history and caused Guilty White Liberals to donate billions to BLM.
George Floyd represents the failed liberal identity politics culture that is destroying America. We only need to look at the pro-Hamas rallies on campuses and in the streets to see how this is all going.
We're fucked.
BTW, when I was in Mpls this summer I drove through the Free State of George Floyd. Cup Foods is a tiny little store in a residential area. No other businesses nearby.
Charlottesville was the site of hide the left-wing ideological progression and Antifa insurrection that included assaulting people forcing the abortion of one of their own.
I wonder how the good transplant citizens of Charlottesville are going to react when decolonization heads their way?
Who needs a bunch of rampaging Brazilians to destroy art when you've got American progressive iconoclasts to do it for you! I bet they even filled out the proper permits - in triplicate - to make sure the art destruction was above board!
What are the chances the new piece will look better, or even as good, as the old one?
The Confederate statues were part of reconciliation. There might even be something to honor
Shelby Foote:
It was close to 4 o'clock by now, and all that protocol required had been performed. After nearly three hours in the McLean parlor — half of one spent waiting and the rest in what could scarcely be called negotiation, since his adversary had freely given all he asked and more than he had hoped for: including immunity, down the years, from prosecution on any charge whatever in connection with the war — Lee was free to go. He rose, shook hands with Grant again, bowed to the others, and passed from the room, followed by Marshall. Out on the porch, several blue-clad officers came to attention and saluted as he emerged. He put on his hat to return their salute, then crossed to the head of the steps leading down to the yard. There he drew on his gauntlets, distractedly striking the fist of one hand three times into the palm of the other as he looked out across the valley to where the men of his army were waiting to learn that they had been surrendered. "Orderly! Orderly!" he called hoarsely, not seeing Tucker close by with Traveller, whose bit had been slipped to let him graze. "Here, General, here," Tucker replied, and Lee came down the steps to stand by the horse's head while he was being bridled. A cavalry major, watching from the porch, noted that "as the orderly was buckling the throat latch, the general reached up and drew the forelock out from under the brow band, parted and smoothed it, and then gently patted the gray charger's forehead in an absent-minded way, as one who loves horses, but whose thoughts are far away, might unwittingly do." Mounted, Lee waited for Marshall and Tucker, then started at a walk across the yard. Grant had come out of the house and down the steps by then, also on his way to the gate where his own horse was tethered. Stopping, he removed his hat in salute, as did the staff men with him. Lee raised his own hat briefly in return, and passed out through the gate and up the road. Presently, northward beyond the dwindled, tree-lined Appomattox, listeners on the porch heard cheers, and then a poignant silence.
A grim act of justice? The Washington Pile of Poop can kiss my grits.
Yeah, right. A metal caster came up with that well-crafted sound byte talking with a reporter.
Sure.
I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors. Isn't this really simple? You erect the statute to honor a man. What was his honor? He fought valiantly for a cause. What cause? To perpetuate slavery. Everything else is noise.
Blow up those Buddha statues!
What was that lament from a couple of weeks ago? Nothing new has been created in this century? Let the author use this proud dog's vomit as proof of concept.
Thus the decolonization of the U.S. and the erasure of its history proceed. Progs take pleasure in the destruction, though for the moment some lack the courage to take credit by name.
When will they start taking hostages here? Is the incarceration of the J6ers a trial run?
What do islamofascists and the un-American left have in common?
A bloodlust to destroy the past and any thoughts that any philosophy or religion other then their own ever existed.
I'm sure there some drug-addicted hood-rat they can "honor" instead.
This is disgusting, and I hope that everyone involved in this gets suffers the worst sorts of misfortune.
Remember all the bullshit about how statues wouldn't be destroyed, they'd be put into context--a lot of detail about history, a learning experience? No statues, no context. The woke know nothing about history, and they don't want to know. They might find out they're not morally superior to most of the human race.
Here's a quote that comes to mind reading this.... this hubristic orgy.
“From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee” - Herman Melville's Moby Dick. The quote is spoken by Captain Ahab, who is obsessed with hunting down the whale that took his leg. The quote is often used to describe a person's intense hatred or desire for revenge.
Bing AI: “Hubris and arrogance are two words that are often used interchangeably, but they have distinct meanings. Arrogance is defined as an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions. Hubris, on the other hand, refers to excessive pride or self-confidence that leads to a downfall. While both arrogance and hubris are negative traits, they differ in their manifestations and consequences.”
Is it too soon to suggest they use it to cast another statue?
George Floyd. It would just about sum up the current state of this country.
How long before these brown shirts get around to throwing that Republican Cis-Male White-Supremacist MLK into the fire? Their cult is dependent upon a never ending list of enemies in need of incineration, and sooner or later they'll melt down everything and anything that gets in their way.
Few know how instrumental Lee was in healing the nation by his actions at the end of the war.
But knowledge and balance/nuance are just words used by the left.
I sort of get that for many, Robert E. Lee was only a Confederate general. But it's too bad that those who know what role he played after the Civil War, in service of the seemingly impossible task of folding the Confederate states back into the Union, apparently don't even try to educate the rest of us.
I wonder why that is. You could still melt down the statue, but maybe it would be with a little less glee and a little more understanding that you're rejecting the war legacy (I haven't looked at a picture of the statue, but I'm guessing he's in uniform, on a horse?) but not the post-war legacy.
Just like the Taliban destroying the Buddahs of Bamiyan.
Barbarians.
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984
Farenheit 451 was a fictional book. But America is closing fast on making it a reality. I don't care if you're offended by history, grow a pair.
Kind of undercuts all the complaints about the Taliban's destruction of statues years ago.
Taliban
So hammer and sickle then, to celebrate the coming new order and a return to barbarism in the name of the state?
Good show!!
More evidence that BLM, Antifa and the whole woke movement is a modern day cult. Reminds me of traveling through rural Turkey, the way Muslims had defaced every Christian image in ancient churches. Or the Bamyan Buddhas and the Taliban.
They are so proud of themselves. But not so proud as to actually be identified. Gotta stay fully masked.
"A nation that fails to honor its heroes, soon will have no heroes to honor." Winston Churchill
"If the present tries to sit in judgment on the past, it will lose the future." --Winston Churchill
"It’s a better sculpture right now than it’s ever been,' one of the metal-casters said. 'We’re taking away what it meant for some people and transforming it.'"
No, it didn't mean a lot to anyone before it was taken down. Few people even knew it existed before the progs designated it a target for elimination in an attempt to stir the racial animosity pot for the next election. Progs are so self righteous and convinced about their own fantasies that they assumed their opposition would be apoplectic about their play acting. Here's a revelation for you. No one cares about the statue. Their lies about "good people on both sides" of the issue did convince at least one person to abandon Biden, which many of us find gratifying.
And the difference between this and the Taliban blowing up Buddha statues is. . . . .?
We can all look forward to another turd in a plaza somewhere.
Lots of statues of Lenin and Stalin got "re-purposed", even in derogatory fashions. Should and if and when the reputation of these genocidal totalitarians be rewritten, those statues can be restore to the plinths from which they were pulled.
Pity an American memory can't be as well treated.
This is just the beginning. Washington and jefferson were slaveholders too. Those full of hatred for whites are on the march, and celebrating. Next step? Reparations. Or perhaps even more discrimination for whites.
Of course, don't worry well-to-do whites, you'll be insulated. And can look down on those "losers" who aren't. But ultimately, you'll be considered a white supremist too and be treated as such. The Kulaks with 2 cows who supported the Revolution ended up being treated worse the Russian white Generals and landowning Counts.
I think R.E. Lee was a great American, who had the standard view of seccession held by many people, not only in the South. That's why Ike, had his picture in the oval office. Lee's being "cancelled" not because he's a Confederate, but because he is an old-time white American. lets not be naive and think otherwise.
Those who put up the statue put up the wrong Confederate. Judah Benjamin's statue would still be up.
This is just the beginning. Washington and jefferson were slaveholders too. Those full of hatred for whites are on the march, and celebrating. Next step? Reparations. Or perhaps even more discrimination for whites.
Of course, don't worry well-to-do whites, you'll be insulated. And can look down on those "losers" who aren't. But ultimately, you'll be considered a white supremist too and be treated as such. The Kulaks with 2 cows who supported the Revolution ended up being treated worse the Russian white Generals and landowning Counts.
I think R.E. Lee was a great American, who had the standard view of seccession held by many people, not only in the South. That's why Ike, had his picture in the oval office. Lee's being "cancelled" not because he's a Confederate, but because he is an old-time white American. lets not be naive and think otherwise.
Those who put up the statue put up the wrong Confederate. Judah Benjamin's statue would still be up.
The Taliban would just have blown it up.
To heck with history, R.E. Lee was a dirty rebel! Melt him down! But what happens when statues of Washington, Jefferson, Monroe, Lincoln are targeted to be melted down? Eventually, statues of George Floyd, Malcom X and M.L. King, Jr. may be targeted. Where do we draw the line between history and "feelings"?
Well I would be pissing and spitting on that new Marxist statue.
Now write “drug overdose” on every George Floyd memorial - it’s only “justice” too.
Fahrenheit 451 was off by 1799 degrees. Libraries and Museums have become centers of destruction.
Fuck em.
I mean, you have to be under some kind of spell to believe raising a dead man so you can kill him again is some sort of worthwhile enterprise.
I could be wrong. I haven't studied other socieeties to know for sure that this is not some sort of conscience raising, character building, for the sake of the children we do this Amen, thing.
If the rebels are true to that code, something like this can only...
Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
And perhaps that is the ultimate goal. Lead people away from unification and reconciliation, by sowing more enmity.
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about Robert E. Lee, but I'll bet good money the new acceptable statue will be crap.
Hard to believe they couldn’t find a way to turn it into ammunition to kill Russians.
"the divisive Confederate monument will be turned into a new piece of public art."
Oh, boy, I can't wait to see it. Perhaps a hulking she-male raping a child?
The Bamiyan Buddhas could not be reached for comment.
I wonder if they’re doing it now because they sense woke’s days are numbered.
Like the Bolsheviks murdering the royal family to ensure they’ll never come back.
I wonder who's statues will be coming down soon now that we have a nation-full of 'Unite the Left' rallies from campus to campus and in our city streets. They sure seem nice.
Every record has been destroyed or falsified.
Every book rewritten.
Every picture has been repainted.
Every statue and street building has been renamed. Every date has been altered.
And the process is continuing day-by-day and minute-by minute. History has stopped.
Historically the good guys are never the ones destroying history...
The Confederate statues are not celebrations of the slavery they were reconciliation to the defeated side of a brutal civil war as an aid for the healing of a deeply divided nation. I suppose that's part of the reason why the current bad guys want to destroy them...
Funny not so funny how they are destroying it in 'secret' but still get a flowery story with some recycled propaganda in a leftie propaganda rag, as if an election may soon be upon us...
This logic is ironclad! It worked like a charm in Vietnam; We had to destroy the statue, in order to save the statue.
The amerikan talaban at work.
Divisive and controversial is anything the Dems don't like.
At last they have drove old Dixie down. The interesting thing was where the Rebs got the money to buy that big bronze statue of Lee and Traveler. The heroic Yankee slave traders had first sold to the plantations the African slaves financed by New York and Boston Banks. Then they declared them all freed. If that was not enough, then they declared all CSA bonds and currency worthless. Then they used freight rates to turn the Southern States into colonies of the North while “investing “ good money into the south’s utilities and Banks that could then be bought for pennies on the dollar.
I suggest the bronze be re-cast into Statues of Sherman and Grant to remind everyone here why losing a war is not a good idea.💛🟠⬜️🕐🫕🫓🫓🌽❤️🔥♉️❤️🔥♎️💜💙
Sure, let's forget reminders of the past and of our U.S. history because it makes some snowflake quesy. Celebrating cancel culture at its finest, per WAPO.
"Charlottesville’s Lee statue meets its end, in a 2,250-degree furnace Melted down in secret..."
"Rosebud"
Did they use solar and/or wind energy to power the furnace? Or did they rush to damage the climate by using fossil fuels?
Rich said: "I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors."
Actually, there are a number of statues of Cromwell publicly displayed in England. Because his supporters, like those of Charles I, are all residents of one country now. Some people wish to prevent America from enjoying that happy condition.
The Shelby Foote excerpt breaks my heart. Never mind the politics.
Don't think this obliteration of history will be soon forgotten.
"Charlottesville’s Lee statue meets its end, in a 2,250-degree furnace Melted down in secret..."
Rocco replied...
"Rosebud"
Whoops. I meant to whisper "Traveller" instead.
Rich said: "I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors."
Actually, there are a number of statues of Cromwell publicly displayed in England, because his supporters, like those of Charles I, are all one country now. Some people wish that America would cease to enjoy that happy condition.
If the museum owned it, they can do whatever they want with it. The melodramatics I can do without.
If you want to melt it down in secret, do it. Don't talk about it.
How do you do this sort of evil? These folks are right up there with the rest of histories Tyrants.
I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors. Isn't this really simple? You erect the statute to honor a man. What was his honor? He fought valiantly for a cause. What cause? To perpetuate slavery. Everything else is noise.
Are you under some sort of mandate to provide the most uniformed comment on every subject?
The Civil War was fought for reasons far beyond just slavery. Pull a history book out of your ass and actually read it.
How Soviet of them.
How Soviet of them.
Is Black Rock filling a black hole... whore h/t NAACP, or the foundation of a Green blight?
"[O]n Saturday the museum went ahead with its plan in secret at this small Southern foundry, in a town and state The Washington Post agreed not to name because of participants’ fears of violence..."
More projection from the leftoids. Why would there be fear of violence? Clearly, because that's how the left rolls so they think everybody else does, too.
Melting down statues is all very well, but isn't "Charlottesville" a rather white-sounding name for a negro city? Maybe they could rename it Ta-Nehisiville.
Or just loot it and burn it to the ground, that works too. I'm sure in a few years, some new 7-11's will sprout, replacing the ones the white devils stole from the Indians.
Zulu... Tutsi... baby... every Black rock... bloc gets aborted... canceled then sequestered in a black hole... whore h/t NAACP under DEI doctrine. Peace... Pieces Y!
such violence has never occurred, except at the hands of those that now claim to be in fear
There was that guy surrounded by an insurrectionist mob who were pounding, hounding, denying standing of government enforcement of civil rights, and evolution dictated that he flee or take a knee.
Are we supposed to pretend that Lee, and the millions of people who admired him--and abided by his surrender--never existed? If there was no Lee, we might be Ukraine--endless war.
the white devils stole from the Indians.
... the red devils, who reused, recycled, and redistributed the land from the indigenous people who preceded them.
I recommend people here read Scott Adams take on this.
Diversity (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry) breeds adversity.
Slavery will destroy this country yet...
"... the red devils, who reused, recycled, and redistributed the land from the indigenous people who preceded them."
I understand they also dispatched those who proceeded them into the afterlife in rather barbaric fashion. On the plus side, they didn't typically use fossil fuels in the process. So they had that going for them, which is nice.
Anyone who thinks the statues to Lee and Forrest (to name just two) were all about reconciliation is uninformed. There was an element of that, but they also symbolized the triumph of Jim Crow and White Supremacy. The message was not lost on the ex-slaves and their descendants.
The Forrest statue here was a fine equestrian piece by one of the foremost American sculptors, and some of us made efforts to save it through contextualization but the venture was dead on arrival. It is now parked somewhere in a warehouse AFAIK; the General and Mrs. were reburied at the SCV museum near Columbia TN.
The objects had lost their totemic power to most of the descendants of those who erected them, but now, even melted or hidden they exert power over modern day animists.
“This is just the beginning. Washington and jefferson were slaveholders too. Those full of hatred for whites are on the march, and celebrating. Next step? Reparations. Or perhaps even more discrimination for whites.”
“To heck with history, R.E. Lee was a dirty rebel! Melt him down! But what happens when statues of Washington, Jefferson, Monroe, Lincoln are targeted to be melted down? Eventually, statues of George Floyd, Malcom X and M.L. King, Jr. may be targeted. Where do we draw the line between history and "feelings"?”
Washington and Jefferson have already been targeted. And a lot of these people don’t know of Lincoln’s role in winning the Civil #at and freeing the slaves. When they started talking tearing down his statutes, they were slammed down hard. But for how much longer?
According to Wikipedia, "The statue was commissioned in 1917 and dedicated in 1924."
So, not exactly a "Confederate monument". But certainly a monument to some bygone polity. We'll not see their like again.
The Russian Orthodox had a belief that their holy men had such pure souls that their bodies did not corrupt after death. The Bolsheviks took it upon themselves to dig up the bodies of Orthodox saints and display their putrified corpses to the orthodox faithful. When Lenin died, they went to considerable trouble and expense to mummify Lenin's corpse and put it on display for their own faithful to venerate. The parallels are obvious....There was something malicious and mean spirited about the way they disposed of Lee's statue. There were plenty of Union veterans with severed limbs and horrid memories of the war who had no objection to this statue. What gives these current protesters more standing than Union veterans?
Leftists create the ugliest art. Modern bronze sculptures don’t get the dimensions correct. Even bronzes of fat old men looked beautiful because of the artistry involved. Now subjects cast in bronze are awkward and ugly, even the ones of beautiful women. The bronze of Obama is especially hideous. I guess they are giving the work to “artists of color” that create these monstrosities because there have been perfectly lovely bronze cast of not so attractive people in the last 50 years that are lovely. The bronzes of Roy and Walt Disney in the parks are very nice.
The Gateway Arch in St. Louis must go! It's a celebration of genocide! Melt it down and put up a big statue of Chuck Berry instead.
"I recommend people here read Scott Adams take on this."
Learn to link.
rcocean writes, "Judah Benjamin's statue would still be up."
Judah Benjamin's statue would still be up. Sieg Heil! FIFY.
Wapo has video on Twitter. Fetish.
rcocean:
Reparations.
DO NOT say that three times in a row.
@ Kevin at 3:24 PM
That's the exact quote that I would post if you hadn't already posted it. Good choice!
If they want to use the melted metal to make another work of public art, may I suggest a nice statue of President Trump? They could even gild it!
Can’t wait to hear what this “higher purpose” the bronze is being reclaimed for.
Here, in Richmond, about an hour east of Charlottesville, they have taken down all the statues that used to define, and, yes, beautify the city. We even had a Monument avenue, with many of the statues.
During the reaction to the suicide of St. George Floyd, they were all vandalized, desecrated, and, eventually, removed. Supposedly, they are being stored somewhere.
All there is left are ugly concrete pylons covered with obscene graffiti, litter, and mud. How fitting.
In addition, the city has seen fit to commission murals on the sides of historic and landmark buildings. Almost all of these "works of art" are vulgar, horrifying, and ugly.
In a few short years, Richmond has been transformed from a genteel, moderate town, to a bombed out suburb of Washington DC.
What the hell happened?
Oh, and just to be clear, I have no dog in this hunt. My parent immigrated here from Japan in 1955. This 170 year old war is not in my history; we have other problems. It just seems sad that ugliness has triumphed over serenity and beauty.
@JIM said: "I don't care if you're offended by history, grow a pair...."
That's the point of history, sometimes. If you're offended by it, you might actually take the time to reflect on it, and resolve to do better than they did, next time.
We now have a current events story about people claiming Hamas as if they were victims, ripping down posters of children taken hostage. No doubt about the hostage-taking, no doubt about the slaughter, because the slaughterhouse workers filmed themselves and then broadcast it, looking to build membership - and now, there they are, your kid student, your neighbor, your co-worker - chanting 'death to Jews', or at least thinking it in their heads and hearts as they happily torment the beleaguered, terrorized Jewish students that have barricaded themselves in the library on campus.
The sympathizers bear no impulse to explain 'why' they do this, even to themselves. Isn't Jew-hate obvious to everybody? 75 years ago, 3 million Jews slaughtered in death camps, 6 million total as 'Final Solution' Jewish victims, with another 11 million civilian victims of Nazis, 7 million of them Soviets. Out of about 80 million total war dead. Yeah, let's not remember any of that.
Jupiter said...
“… isn't "Charlottesville" a rather white-sounding name for a negro city?”
Well, on the other side of the pond, the BBC has hired a black actress to portray Queen Charlotte.
"It just seems sad that ugliness has triumphed over serenity and beauty."
This is what the left gives the world, always and everywhere.
Destroying Art, no wonder they support Hamas, the Taliban and ISIS. Leftist Nazi b@stards.
The fools persist...
The reason that there was a Robert E. Lee statue in the first place was to honor the post-Civil War reconciliation. Same as the naming of the various military bases... What people missed about that was that the reason most of the post-WWII bases were named after Confederate officers was that the majority of the bases kept open were in the South because... Weather conditions. Ones that allowed for year-round training. The bases named after Northern generals were mostly in the North, and because nobody was dumb enough to keep a base open where you could really only train half the year... Yeah. Most of the remaining facilities were naturally named after native sons.
The whole deal with honoring the Confederate leadership wasn't to "keep the black man down", but to give them credit for not going all crazy with the resistance after the war. Robert E. Lee could have said to his men that they should take their weapons home with them, and fight a guerrilla war against the Yankees. He did not, and that's why there's a statue to him; he was a stand-up guy who didn't do the "Let's keep killing..." thing. As well, it was a sop to Southern egos.
The whole thing is wrong-headed on the face of it. Those statues and monuments aren't to the fact that those officers and men fought for slavery; they're basically there for being good losers, and to show that the reconciliation was supported by all. By tearing that crap out, you're reopening old wounds, making new ones, and showing that there's never any hope for forgiveness or reconciliation.
I find it disturbing because it's a part of the mentality of "righteousness" that the leftoid freaks constantly push... Everything is politicized; you can't just have a different opinion or thoughts on an issue, you have to be run out of town on a rail for "wrongthink", because you're evil, and need to be punished for not agreeing with them.
The stupid thing here is that they seem think this wholesale ripping up of culture and artifacts will make relations better, when the opposite is true.
Honestly, though? I think Robert E. Lee was a deliberately awful general who did more harm to the Confederacy than he did good. He carried the war to the North, and that doomed the South. Had he fought a more Fabian sort of war, making the North come to him in the South...? He could have made the North the bad guy in international view, and worn them down. Doing what he did doomed the South in the long run. He had some nice early victories, and then pissed it all away with his strategic actions. Gettysburg was the death of any chances for Southern victory, and his orders to Pickett lost that battle.
Hard to say whether or not there ought to be a Northern monument to him, because without Lee running things, the North might not have won the war.
At least, that's my opinion.
I think the man deserves respect, if only for what he did after the war, which did much to damp down passions and all the angst afterwards. The fact that the war did not flair up again shows the good work he did with that, and I think it's a huge mistake to undo what the succeeding generations after the Civil War found fitting. It wasn't about honoring slaveowners, it was about respecting men who fought and died, and then when defeated, admitted same and gave up the fight. You just have to imagine a South that didn't give up, that kept on fighting until each and every Southerner had to be killed in order to make it stop. We didn't have guerrilla campaigns of terrorism after the war, except for free-lancers like the James Gang. Imagine if every fighting man in the South had been empowered and directed by Marse' Bob to do what the James brothers did?
That's why there are statues to Lee. And, why they should stay up.
Fahrenheit 1790 (the melting point of bronze).
Cultural abortion. Better statues than babies. Another Spring in progress.
they also dispatched those who proceeded them into the afterlife in rather barbaric fashion. On the plus side, they didn't typically use fossil fuels in the process
Environmentalists. Hitler smiles. #HateLovesAbortion
There were black, brown, red, and peach slave holders. And diversity... consider the Kenyan elite vs deplorables. Such a "burden" h/t Obama. That said, Spring is in the air. Vaya con Dios.
The melting down may have been done in secret, but the plan to melt it down was voted on in public in December 2021. The litigation to stop the plan was recently resolved. But is this about art or about money? I think the city or museum would have altered their plan if enough money had been offered for the statute. If you go back to the December meeting, you will see that the City Counsel was actively considering whether it could sell for &50,000 to $100,000 the Stonewall Jackson statute that it had also taken down.
Face facts, the very fine people wouldn’t put up the bucks to save the statute.
Rich said...
"I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors. Isn't this really simple? You erect the statute to honor a man. What was his honor? He fought valiantly for a cause. What cause? To perpetuate slavery. Everything else is noise."
He was a brilliant general, if nothing else. History should remember him for that. There should be busts of Lenin and Stalin and Hitler, etc. on display somewhere where the public can see them. So that in the future fathers can bring their children and say, "See these men? This is what evil looks like."
"In a few short years, Richmond has been transformed from a genteel, moderate town, to a bombed out suburb of Washington DC.
What the hell happened?"
The Left happened.
A nation without a shared history is a nation without a shared future.
So once again, the Progressives LIED to us when they claimed the statues would be put in a museum.
Don't EVER trust a Progressive.
Joe Bar said...
Oh, and just to be clear, I have no dog in this hunt. My parent immigrated here from Japan in 1955. This 170 year old war is not in my history; we have other problems. It just seems sad that ugliness has triumphed over serenity and beauty.
10/26/23, 8:11 PM
This is the Progressive Utopia they are willing to die for. Enjoy the downfall, of our once Great America, courtesy of the people who hate it...The Progressive party and their useful idiots.
This sort of thing is not cheap. Maybe we should dedicate one percent of each new construction budget to the destruction of public art.
If memory serves, the causative bailiwick of this iconoclasm was a political demonstration by young white men carrying tiki torches who were damned as Nazis on account of the tiki torches that weren't used to commit acts of arson in stark contrast to many "black lives matter" demonstration. Let's ask the lynch mob about their opinions regarding Hamas and Israel. That should clarify which side of the Robert E. Lee statue question most resembles Hitler's National Socialists.
Just a bit of historical irony -- in the long conflict between the Philistines and the Hebrew confederacy as given in the books of Judges and Samuel, the Philistines were noted for acts of vandalism against Hebrew shrines and monuments, by which the pejorative philistine entered our language to describe disrespectful attitudes and actions regarding objets d'art. The Philistine center of operations, as it were, was Gaza.
Rich said...
I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors. Isn't this really simple? You erect the statute to honor a man. What was his honor? He fought valiantly for a cause. What cause? To perpetuate slavery. Everything else is noise.
Ronald Reagan must have met Rich. Because it explains his comments so well.
"“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant. It’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”
The left never considers that the cease fire was negotiated. Negotiated with the singular goal of re-uniting a Nation that just killed a half million of its own people. The scars were grotesque and deep.
The agreement was to let the 'losers' celebrate their own heroes. Sustain their southern culture.
Rich seems to think the way to re-unite the nation, is to continue to pillary the losers, and degrade them at every opportunity.
New hippie singalong... "The night WE drove old Dixie down".
Has a ring to it.
Dennis Prager reminds us that the left only destroys, it never builds.
Takirks--very well said.
I don't know enough about military strategy to agree or disagree with your assessment of his generalship, but your comments on the purpose and effect of honoring Lee are spot on.
I also understand that I might not see it that way if I were a black person subjected to the post-Civil War legacy. "It could have been much worse" is small comfort. But at this point the desecration of the monuments is pure spite.
"Public Art" I'm guessing ghastly public art.
As it does for others, the scene brings to mind the Taliban for me.
Perhaps that big rock removed from the UW-Madison should be converted into Magma.
And all you need to know, really, is this: It was done in secret.
The bronze should be re-cast as a Phoenix. One could inscribe it with initials of various people, un-named, so that viewers could put their own spin on the statue. I'm not a big fan of art that tells you what to think.
Lee said he didn't want any monuments to himself. End of story.
The civil war itself was all about canceling culture.. slave culture
Melting of Confederate hero statues is canceling Jim Crow culture.
Founding of the United States was a canceling of monarchical culture.
It always has been and it always will be argued based on who's favorite ox is getting castrated.
No terrorism in the Southland after they drove old Dixie down?
I guess that whole KKK thing was a myth . . .
10,000 lbs. of bronze is worth $23,000. Logically, the statue should have been sold to the highest bidder, then that money could have been put towards a new monument. But it wasn't about logic, it was about spite. We can't allow the statue to continue to exist, we must destroy what someone else would value and pay for.
BLM and Antifa are truly the Taliban-wing of the Democratic party.
Rich would have preferred the Treaty of Versailles. The problem with stupid lefties is that they don’t know history and therefor do not learn from it.
- Krumhorn
They are still revered. The statue of the southern soldier facing south still graces the the city hall landscaped park of the old southern town of Crescent City, Florida still stands. My relatives having served in the Florida regiments and South Carolina regiments of the late War for Southern Independence and Constitutional Fidelity are still honored every year in the cemeteries of the fallen. We travel to them every year planting the national flag "Stars and Bars" upon their graves. They are still remembered.
Destroying works of art -- something the Taliban would be proud of.
Just like the Taliban going after those Bhuddas in Afghanistan? Cromwell's troops smashing statutes of the saints in Anglican churches? Iconoclasts on the right side of history? Or barbarians destroying cultural memory?
The Confederate monuments, as noted above, served to heal the wounds of the Civil War. I guess we have moved beyond that.
Let's set up a monument to George Floyd, the greatest man of his generation.
After almost 200 years, we in Chicago now have Jean Baptist Point du Sable Lake Shore Drive. I feel morally elevated very time I avoid death from motorists screaming down it (speed limit:40) at 75 mph. The cops have given up on traffic enforcement here. Maybe we'll get speed cameras on JBPDSLSD.
"Joe Bar said...
Oh, and just to be clear, I have no dog in this hunt. My parent immigrated here from Japan in 1955. This 170 year old war is not in my history; we have other problems. It just seems sad that ugliness has triumphed over serenity and beauty."
Japan has a share history with the USA.
Yesterday I was in Georgia and passed exit 21 on I85. The sign used to say “Fort Benning” but now, thanks to all the do gooders hard work erasing all things Confederate, it say “Fort Moore”. I’m still waiting for all the promised peace, love and light to break out across this land.
Its hard to believe the US was able to emerge victorious in WW2 given all the "traitorous" statues hanging around and "traitorously" named military bases.
Of course, those military "traitors" of yesteryear were often tactically and strategically outstanding leaders, capable of leading from the front and inspiring their troops.
LLR-democratical Rich/C****, should we disallow the teaching of those successful tactics and strategies to our future military leaders as well? I mean, aren't those "traitorous" strategies?
It would leave more time for pronoun analysis, sex change operations and discussions of CRT/DEI/white supremacy.
"I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors."
Indeed! Jane Fonda and plenty of other Communists have honored places in the trendy social circles, as well as the neo-Marxist, anti-American and pro-Islamic terrorist supporters who hold positions of distinction in our Universities.
Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics.
Lee invaded the North in early 1863 because he had to--northern Virginia had been et out, and the Gettysburg Campaign was, in addition to a search for that elusive decisive battle, a huge raid that brought back everything that could be carried.
Without that campaign the ANV doesn't remain in northern Virginia in the fall of '63, and no, giving up ground is not a recipe for garnering popular support. People forget that until Lee arrived in mid-62, the CS was losing--everywhere. A good general--and Lee was a very good general--can make all the difference.
There was no prospect whatever of European intervention regardless.
The Crack Emcee said...
Lee said he didn't want any monuments to himself. End of story.
10/27/23, 7:53 AM
It wasn't put there for Lee. Just like a funeral isn't for the dead person, it's for the survivors.
Charlottesville is 65% white and 15% black. I don't think you can blame this on the negro.
Might be replaced with a George Floyd statue. Appropriate for criminals to raise a statue of a criminal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2BSDLFVT74
Maybe you’ve seen this already, Crack? It hurts my heart to hear him. I think you have much in common w/him.
This, as well:
https://youtu.be/EGmg198RpEk?si=d4ThI8X13B2TxOyH
Wokeness has degraded this country, it only tears down. It replaces what it destroys with garbage, just like whatever abomination they forge out of the Lee remains.
I don't know of another country on Earth that honors its traitors. Isn't this really simple? You erect the statute to honor a man. What was his honor? He fought valiantly for a cause. What cause? To perpetuate slavery. Everything else is noise.
Really? Superintendent of West Point? The only cadet to not get any demerits? The young engineer officer whose deeds ensured that the Mexican-American War of 1845 was a success? The one person on the Southern side of the American Civil War who could tell people that the war was over and that God had decided who had won and that going into the hills and killing Yankees until the sun went cold wouldn't do any good?
That guy? You're more of a traitor in my eyes.
Total MSM horseshit claiming they did it in secret for fear of violence. High political drama again slandering honorable southern men. One hundred ten years ago that fear was proven moronic when the Army at last dared to let southern men serve together with northern men in an ALL AMERICAN DIVISION. No such problem existed.
And that AA division went on to become the 82nd Airborne. Which they just got reslandered when their home was deemed a threat because for using Bragg’s name.
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