Write about whatever you want in the comments.We'd had a few days of rain, but today there was some blue sky and brisk wind. It was nice to get back to the usual afternoon walk. This is the western view at 3:25 p.m.
October 15, 2023
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A Novembery lake.
Democracy is still alive in Poland with a change of the ruling majority. That said the 1/3 of the electorate won by Tusk is solid but not a landslide majority. How he will spend his electoral capital will be telling and interesting…
Fresh! I like this photo. Doesn't it make you want to do the polar plunge?
Powerline:
But there is something else going on, something beyond even Israel’s need to win the war or the entirely appropriate desire to exact revenge. The Palestinians, and Gazans in particular, have the sickest culture on Earth. Little productive work is done; Gaza exists largely as the beneficiary of international welfare. Instead of goods and services, the main product of Gaza is ideology–the perverted ideology of Jew-hatred.
Of all the appalling images that have emerged from Israel and Gaza, this one may be the most chilling. A captured Israeli boy who appears to be around six or seven years old is tormented by Palestinian children:
The inhuman heartlessness of these Palestinian children is the product of their education and upbringing. Gazan children are taught that killing Jews is the highest human achievement and religious duty. They are taught that they must wipe Israel off the map. In fact, in their schools they are given maps on which Israel has already ceased to exist. They are not reared to pursue gainful occupations, enrich their communities or enjoy the arts. They are reared to hate, and to kill, Jews–all the Jews who live “from the river to the sea.”
Israel has learned through bitter experience that it does little good to decapitate Gaza’s political leadership, Hamas. As long as Gaza’s sick culture exists, new leaders will be easy to find and the society’s perverted aims will be pursued. So the ultimate objective of Israel’s current military effort should be to destroy the culture that has rendered Gaza an implacable foe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPuafTLEVX8
Since 'tim in vermont' and his allies were still pretending just a few days ago (link) that Zelensky is selling American weapons to Hamas, I thought they should know that there is finally some evidence that one Ukrainian has in fact sold weapons on the black market! We know that because Ukraine arrested him. Here's the story, from the Twitter feed of the Kiev Independent, which 'tim in vermont' once called "Ukrainian propaganda" on the very day their front-page article was an editorial criticizing a new press law as going too far. Here's the story:
"Man arrested for selling abandoned Russian weaponry in Kherson Oblast.
"A man has been arrested on suspicion of selling weapons and ammunition left behind by the Russian army, the region's prosecutor's office reported on Oct. 11.
"The man went to combat positions abandoned by the Russian army in Beryslav district in Kherson Oblast to find weaponry 'with the aim of selling them to interested parties,' the prosecutor's office said."
Of course, these were Russian weapons, not American, and the man seems to have been selling them to his fellow Ukrainians, not the Russians, and certainly not Hamas. (How would he even get them to Gaza?) Nine-tenths of the rednecks in the hollers of Appalachia where I live would have done exactly the same if they found abandoned military weapons and ammunition, even if it was illegal for civilians to hold, and would have found plenty of buyers. (The picture accompanying the story is several hundred rounds of what looks like machine-gun ammunition.) This Khersonite was either very brave or very foolish, and certainly very lucky, because abandoned Russian positions would likely be surrounded by unexploded land mines.
Of course, the only evidence that Zelensky has been selling weapons to Hamas, or anyone else, is (so 'tim' at the first link) that "there have been stories [a]bout this almost since the war started". Does he not know that Russia has tens of thousands of propagandists that have been spreading any story they think will help them convince gullible Americans and others, since long before the war started? Too bad so many here are so willing to believe the most blatant falsehoods.
I have finally got COVID.
Not that big a deal, but I can’t in all honesty claim to be enjoying it much at all.
Why doesn't Hamas surrender to save civilian lives? Gazans know Hamas has tunnels under Gaza city filled with rockets and bombs to attack Israeli civilians and that Israel Knows this and is coming to blow it all up and is telling Gazans to evacuate the city before it burns. And Hamas knows. Hamas rocket depots are not a secret in the region. So why isn't that in the news along with questions about when Hamas will consider Gazan civilians and surrender?
Sorry I posted a couple comments in the wrong thread last night. I meant to post them in the open thread.
Lakes, in a certain light, are seductive, alluring, inexplicably hypnotic.
On a different topic. I wish to point out that world events have presented us with an extraordibary circumstance. People are being forced to dispense with euphemism and other deflections abd state, yes or no, whether it is a good thing to kill Jews.
This is the moment to identify the real neo-nazis.
Fascism is not a right wing movemebt. Read Hitler's speeches. His movement was all about the subordination of the individual to a movement embodied by the reich, i.e., state. People blame Nietzsche. Only a bit of truth there. I think Hitler and Heidegger were the stepchildren of Rousseau, the triumph of the general will as ascertained by the very best people.
Sunday evening stream-watching boiled down to NFL football or news about the beginnings of the new war (that has been ongoing since the late '40s) between permitted disenfranchised European Jewish settlers in what is now Israel and unwilling relocated Arab "refugees" pushed into a fight brought on and supported by anti-Semitic Islamic states.
I couldn't take the stories about babies being shot in the head in front of their mothers by Hamas and admittedly, I fail to understand the hatred that drives the 75-year-old war perpetrated and perpetuated by extremists who won't even shelter 2 million of their own kind (up from 200 thousand in 1948).
So after I was overcome about where extremism in America was headed, I turned to the NFL to learn about "defenseless" rules that ignore "offenseless" interactions. So the 49ers got hit with two virtually back-to-back personal fouls during a key fourth-quarter drive that gave the Browns the lead.
The big one came on a 3rd-and-10 play at Cleveland's 26 that resulted in Tashaun Gipson being called for a 15-yard unnecessary roughness penalty on wideout Elijah Moore, keeping the drive alive. Officials ruled that he didn't let Moore land. But the hit was legal and neither player could stop the bang-bang pass defense contact. So the Browns kicked a field goal after a second bad call by the officials to get into the lead. But Brock Purdy's final drive was unsuccessful when the 49er kicker missed a chip shot with a few seconds left.
Comment on Powerline that should be spread around...so much truth in it.
Edisto R. Blackwater
18 hours ago
The modern Republican party has a history of betrayal. They betrayed Westerners concerned with introducing sanity to environmental law, now we have rolling haz-mat heavy electric cars and increasingly expensive mobility for our citizens in service of a myth. The Tea Party movement was betrayed, and the fact that the Democrats used the IRS and other agencies against them ignored. Both parties worked against Trump, and Republicans continue their acquiescence by silence when it comes to blowing up the norm of not prosecuting political opponents.
Now GOP passivity is really causing trouble. Israel faces an existential threat. Their enemies on the political Left have started a campaign to defend the rapists and child killers of Hamas, and are effectively planting the idea that Israel is the country gleefully slaughtering civilians. It's a tactic that has worked for them in the past - mostly due to ineffective political opposition.
The Republican party is remaining silent, as they did when Westerners started being attacked by the bureaucracy for speaking up, as they did when Tea Partiers started getting political IRS audits. There are no campaigns to publicize the horrors of 10/7, no demands for Socialists like Talib and Omar to go on the record to renounce forcible rape and the murder of babies - you know, the way Trump supporters were told to they had to renounce Charlottesville, Russia, White Supremacy, or a thousand other imaginary bugaboos during the Trump administration. Israel's political battle in her number one ally is as doomed as Wise Use and the Tea Party. I hope they're planning on how to carry on without us.
Now after all that, my neighbors and myself - otherwise known as the Republican base, Tea Partiers and tillers of the soil - are supposed to be all excited and angry because the Republicans can't reverse their rectal-cranial inversion long enough to compromise and get a Speaker. The out of touch moneyed interests who run Washington can't figure out why conservatives are so angry, even after the Covid and election security betrayals. Why how are we going to be angry if we don't know the name of the ineffective idiot who will betray us?
Maybe Republican voters aren't angry any more. After all, the opposite of love isn't hate. Hate is a stage, the opposite of love is indifference.
It's a small world:
"Last year marked half a century since Palestinian terrorists abducted, tortured and murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. The 50th anniversary did not get the attention it deserved, and a key sequel escaped attention.
The mastermind of the massacre was Muhammad Abu Yousef al-Najjar. His grandson, calling himself Ammar Campa-Najjar, worked on Obama’s 2012 campaign, served in the Obama White House and federal Labor Department, and ran for Congress in California in 2018 and 2020." (via Power Line)
"In 1692 Salem, Massachusetts, the Puritan cult-like witch hunters caused unaccountable damage and destroyed anyone in their path. In 2023, the cults have different names. Wokeism, climate change fanatics, BLM, and LGBT come to mind. Just like the 1692 Puritans, these modern cults revel in their ability to unaccountably witch-hunt. No one is safe. The cult will lynch anyone who stands in their way. America is hanging by a thread."
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/10/democrats_bring_back_the_salem_witch_trials.html
Professor John Mearsheimer, who has been 100% correct on his calls about Ukraine (which he is very ashamed of) is now explaining Israel.
Humperdink said...
It's a small world:
"Last year marked half a century since Palestinian terrorists abducted, tortured and murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. The 50th anniversary did not get the attention it deserved, and a key sequel escaped attention."
The way things are framed is amazing: If you watch the Academy Award-winning documentary, One Day In September, which I posted a few days ago, you would know that the 1972 attack on the Olympics was also the very first time anyone ever spoke of "the Palestinian people" as a people. That was the point of the attack. To get the world's attention. The atrocity that Israel has forced on the lives of the Palestinians had been going on for 25 years before that, and that's what they did to get the world to focus. So, this is also the 50th anniversary of the world finally knowing what Israel had been doing to the people who lived there, before the Zionists arrived, and how those people feel about it. And they're not happy.
Years ago, I think when Ric Ocasek passed away, Althouse said she thought of the Cars in the same way as she thought of The Talking Heads. I think this was wrong and it's been bothering me ever since. I don't know why....
Crack Emcee @ 6:12: “… you would know that the 1972 attack on the Olympics was also the very first time anyone ever spoke of ‘the Palestinian people’ as a people. That was the point of the attack.” Wow. That’s certainly one way to get attention.
How about the rest of the world respond by frustrating the attention-getters? Just turn its back on this absolute evil? Is that OK?
Or how about the rest of the world just eradicate every trace of the evildoers: hunt them down and cast them out. You cool with that?
I’ve just had it with the excuse-making, the Whataboutism, the deflection and projection, the apologetics, the “Yes but.” Enough.
Airlift ordered by DeSantis evacuates 300 Americans from Israel.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/airlift-ordered-by-desantis-evacuates-300-americans-from-israel
Ah Munich in ‘72. Arafat learned well the value of propaganda from the KGB. Like the “no nukes” movement and the concept of “disinformation” the reinvention of “Palestine” was a KGB marketing strategy. Leftists (and Crack) are attracted to these kinds of tactics.
Airlift ordered by DeSantis evacuates 300 Americans from Israel.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/airlift-ordered-by-desantis-evacuates-300-americans-from-israel
know that the 1972 attack on the Olympics was also the very first time anyone ever spoke of ‘the Palestinian people’ as a people.
Centuries past, they just called them Palestinians because the people part seemed redundant, but I guess when they started behaving like savages, they needed to remind us they may still be people? Is this like partnered sex?
Owen said...
"How about the rest of the world respond by frustrating the attention-getters? Just turn its back on this absolute evil? Is that OK?"
I don't know which "absolute evil" you're referring to: the Zionists, who killed Palestinians so Zionists could take their homes, or the Palestinians who got revenge at the Olympics?
"Or how about the rest of the world just eradicate every trace of the evildoers: hunt them down and cast them out. You cool with that?"
Well, it is the international community that - shamefully - kind of got all the trouble going, since no Jew was safe anywhere in the western world that they went. Israel was only created to make up for the international community's antisemitism, so maybe "the rest of the world" ain't the best people to decide anything. It looks to me like they've done enough.
"I’ve just had it with the excuse-making, the Whataboutism, the deflection and projection, the apologetics, the “Yes but.” Enough."
Until you can explain why Jewish people can come back after 3000 years and tell other people that they own their homes and land, or why a Jew from Brooklyn has more right to live there than a Palestinian who's family has been there for the last 2000 years, I will agree with you that the excuse-making, the Whataboutism, the deflection and projection, the apologetics, the “Yes but” are gross and the Zionists ought to stop it.
Edward Said? You've got to be kidding.
A little back-ground on Edward Said:
Glick- Newsweek 2020:
"Twenty years ago, on July 3, 2000, an incident occurred along the Lebanese border with Israel that, at the time, seemed both bizarre and, in the broad span of things, unimportant. But with the hindsight of 20 years, it was a seminal moment and a harbinger for the mob violence now taking place in many parts of America.
That day, Columbia University professor Edward Said was photographed on the Hezbollah-controlled Lebanese side of border with Israel throwing a rock at an Israel Defense Forces watchtower 30 feet away.
Said, who passed away in 2003, was no mere professor. He was the superstar of far-Left intellectuals. Even better, he was at once both a professor and a member of a terrorist organization. Said served not only as an academic, but as a member of the Palestine National Council, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) terror group's formal governing apparatus.
Still, his action was strange. The PLO had ostensibly forsworn terrorism seven years earlier, when it embarked on a peace process with Israel. True, since then, Palestinian terrorism had risen to unprecedented heights, with more Israelis killed by Palestinian terrorists between 1993 and 2000 than had been killed over the previous 15 years. But Said himself insisted that he was a man of peace. So why did he choose to get photographed throwing a rock at Israeli soldiers protecting their border?
To understand his action, it is necessary to understand Said's intellectual record."
[cont next..]
Edward Said cont...
"Although his field of expertise was comparative literature, Said became a celebrity intellectual for a work that had nothing to do with comparative literature.
In 1978, Said published Orientalism, a polemical analysis of Western study of the Arab and Islamic worlds. Said's work, which became the canonical text of postcolonial studies in the American academy, was a repudiation of all Western scholarship on the Islamic world—and, more broadly, a repudiation of the capacity of Western academics to study other regions and peoples of the world.
In Orientalism, Said characterized all Western—and particularly American—scholarship on the Arab and Islamic worlds as one big conspiracy theory. As Middle East scholar Martin Kramer explained in his 2001 work, Ivory Towers on Sand: The Failure of Middle Eastern Studies in America, Said said that Western scholarship on the Arab and Islamic worlds amounted to an expression of white supremacy, "articulated in the West to justify its dominion over the East."
From the Enlightenment period through the present, Said wrote, "Every European, in what he could say about the Orient, was a racist, an imperialist and almost totally ethnocentric."
more next..
Antisemitism is apparently one of the most difficult viruses to cure.
Required Field Must not Be Blank said...
"Years ago, I think when Ric Ocasek passed away, Althouse said she thought of the Cars in the same way as she thought of The Talking Heads. I think this was wrong and it's been bothering me ever since. I don't know why...."
Because it's wrong. While both were New Wave bands, Talking Heads were obviously the much stronger of the two (The Cars only had two solid albums while the Heads had a string of them) and the Heads' artistic influence was Dada, whereas Rick Ocasek's were merely allusions to Rock 'n' Roll - a subject Talking Heads wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. There's also the fact Talking Heads were outstanding performers, as the film Stop Making Sense documented, while people who saw The Cars live wanted to commit suicide afterwards because they'd never experienced that level of boredom before, or knew it even existed. I'd also be derelict if I didn't mention the cult that built up around the Talking Heads' bass player, Tina Weymouth, one of the most iconic (and best) female bass players in the world. She and her husband, Talking Heads drummer Chris Frantz, also started the band, Tom Tom Club, which spawned two major hits that influenced and was resampled by artists all over the world. Meanwhile, The Cars are just The Cars. No one really knows the other member's names, and there are no bands who followed in their footsteps, creatively. Finally, both David Byrne and Ric Ocasek did turn out to be assholes in the end, so there's that.
"When Orientalism was first published, scholars across multiple fields panned it. Those whom Said had personally and professionally attacked in the book, as well as those whom he supported in it, rejected both his thesis and his argument.
And this makes sense, because at the heart of Said's polemic was a clear goal of invalidating fact- and evidence-based scholarship in favor of narrative arguments. If all Western—and specifically American—scholarship of the non-Western world is inherently and inescapably racist, then it didn't matter how well a person mastered the subject. Nothing he could possibly do would be credible.
At its base, Orientalism was a call to arms against reason.
For students both then and now, the kind of thinking—or non-thinking—that Orientalism prescribes is extremely alluring. Said's essential message is that a great scholar of Islam—or of Asia, Africa or Latin America—is worse than worthless. If he is a white American, he is an agent of evil. In recent years, the academic areas where Said's anti-intellectual prescription have determined white Americans are by their nature unfit to work have massively expanded. Among others, they now include African-American studies, gender studies and transgender studies. On the other hand, a student at any level who embraces Said's postcolonial posture is automatically accorded the status of the moral and intellectual superior to an expert who devotes his life to studying his subject. "
For students both then and now, the kind of thinking—or non-thinking—that Orientalism prescribes is extremely alluring.
&
If he is a white American, he is an agent of evil.
Well. Now we understand the left's love-affair with Edward Said and his anti-reason notions.
***Racism is everywhere - you evil white persons! **The white left and the white Mullahs are immune from this criticism*** amazing.
On Edward Said cont..
"The ignorance of the postcolonial academic is rewarded, while the knowledge of the veteran scholar is vilified.
The power of the conspiracy theory is its impermeability to fact. Conspiracies have a built-in explanation for their manifold contradictions: Anyone who questions the conspiratorial worldview is a member of the oppressor class.
In the case of Said, cast aspersions on postcolonial studies and you are deemed a racist if you are white—and a collaborator, or servant of racism, if you are non-white.
This then brings us to political violence.
Said tried to shrug off the criticism of his rock-throwing as much ado about nothing. But Israelis were not convinced. Dennis Zinn, an Israeli television reporter, who was covering the rock attacks at the border when Said threw his stone, explained at the time that there was nothing either indiscriminate or "symbolic" about what he did or where he did it.
According to Zinn, the site where Said threw the stone was the scene of daily assaults. "The Lebanese line up and wait to throw their rocks until soldiers and civilians are exposed."
Why did Said do it? What was a celebrity professor trying to signal by throwing a rock at Israelis from across the border?"
The answer is twofold. First, there is the significance of Said's membership in the PLO. The PLO wasn't simply the incubator of modern terrorism—the terror group that introduced the world to airline hijacking and bus bombing. It was a trailblazer in the fusion of political warfare with terrorism. PLO chief Yasser Arafat recognized that it wasn't sufficient to merely kill Israelis or Jews. The Jews' right to a state and, indeed, to life, had to be delegitimized and criminalized through political warfare. For Arafat, political warfare and terrorism went hand in hand, from the outset.
From Arafat's perspective, the purpose of political warfare—delegitimization and criminalization of its intended victims—was to enable and legitimize the terrorist warfare whose goal was the physical destruction of the victims' society.
For Said, throwing a stone at Israel was a signal that the next phase of the battle against Israel should begin. Notably, the Palestinian terror war against Israel began just two months later.
"In a larger sense, though, Said's championing of the Palestinian war against Israel was part of a far wider postcolonialist crusade he waged against the United States. The purpose of his scholarship was to deny American professors the right to study and understand the world by delegitimizing them as nothing but racists and imperialists. Orientalism formed the foundation of a much broader campaign on campuses to delegitimize the United States as a political entity steeped in racism.
The purpose of the intellectual nihilism these champions of "narrative" over evidence advocate is not simply to leave students ignorant of facts. It is to manipulate students to engage in political violence against the United States. After all, if American scholars are inherently racist and therefore evil, they are so because America is inherently racist and therefore evil. And if America is inherently evil, then the right thing to do is to engage in violence to destroy it.
Said's rock attack on Israel 20 years ago was the inevitable and desired endpoint of his anti-intellectual scholarship. And now his endpoint has become the reality on the streets of America's great cities."
Said - the intellectual fire-power behind the "YOU'RE ALL RACISTS, YOU COLONIALIST RACISTS," BS.
(except the white American left - they get a pass)
LINK
The Palestinian people? They were booted out of Jordan, likewise from Lebanon and Egypt wants no part of them. If they would cease in attempts to overthrow seemingly friendly governments they might be welcome. On the bright, they have a friend in congress. That would be Jamaal Bowman (D-Hamas) who wants to invite them to our shores.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"Leftists (and Crack) are attracted to these kinds of tactics."
As I said, the Academy Awards seem to enjoy it, too. And One Day In September's director. That film is narrated by the actor, Michael Douglas, so I must assume that he's also an anti-semite who hates the Jews. Should we assume that about anyone who watched that film and actually enjoyed it and 'got' the point of why it was made?
It is simply amazing how quickly conservatives can go from "you can't trust the government" to "you better get in-line with what they told you" - no matter what the facts are. I see a lot of people saying I'm lying, or calling me names, but you can't give answers to simple questions like - if you and your family were Palestinian - what gives the Jews the right to come back, after 3000 years, and take over your home?
I don't know which "absolute evil" you're referring to: the Zionists, who killed Palestinians so Zionists could take their homes, or the Palestinians who got revenge at the Olympics?
Zionist people.
Until you can explain why Jewish people can come back after 3000 years and tell other people that they own their homes and land
They never left. They were there for 3000 years. Sort of like how the Kurds are still in Syria, Türkiye, and Iraq. But in 1948, various Muslim countries warned that their people should leave Israel, because those nations planned to destroy Israel from Jordan to the sea. They left, assuming they would return when the Jews were driven away. Israel won that war and told those who left they couldn’t come back. What is interesting is your argument suggests that is a legitimate way to handle such situations.
Leland said...
"when they started behaving like savages"
The Gaza scholar ,Norman Finkelstein, reminds us that, when the Union was fighting the South, our soldiers sang songs to John Brown, who people also said acted like a "savage" to avenge slavery - he led black slaves in a revolt that took the lives of white men, women and children - and they were the good guys.
I'm seriously starting to get the impression you guys haven't really looked into this subject, but are merely repeating things that you've been told all these years, because a simple look at the facts make it clear that - morally or otherwise - no one can come back, after 3000 years, and claim somebody's home. The Jews had to kill in order to make it possible.
That's Israel's original sin.
For Crack, history starts at a point of convenience of his determination. If one cannot be found, he'll invent it.
Israel is a civilized country in which arabs and jews can and do live side by side peacefully. Gaza and the West Bank are more like homeless camps that live like parasites off the civilization around them and cause crime and misery to the civilized people of ALL kinds who wish to live and let live. Israel has borders created out of the crucible of war: wars started and lost by its arab neighbors. It is a tiny island of opportunity for jews to live in peace surrounded by millions of square miles of arab countries. When you side with Hamas or Fatah or the stupid students who scream "Free palestine!" then you are siding with genocide, because every "palestinian" solution to the "jewish problem" is exactly like Hitler's "final solution" in kind and effect, a judenfrei country. There is no two state solution. There is no peace offer that the palestinians have ever or will ever accept.
Only total annihilation of the jews is acceptable to them. We stand at another turning point in history. Moral clarity is required. If you think the jews are the problem then you don't realize you are also on the annihilation list. If the new nazis are successful at item number one on their list they will get to us next. Did you fools learn nothing from 9/11?
You guys are funny. One day, Bari Weiss makes a fool of herself on the Joe Rogan show. Attacked Tulsi Gabbard without evidence. But then she comes back and says something about Israel and you guys are like "she's so smart." Bill Maher makes a fool of himself over Trump and you all notice - total TDS. But then he says something about Israel and you guys are all "he's so smart." Then you want a war. You're just like the Zionists:
You can't make up your minds whether you want to be good guys or tough guys.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"Israel is a civilized country in which arabs and jews can and do live side by side peacefully. Gaza and the West Bank are more like homeless camps that live like parasites off the civilization around them and cause crime and misery to the civilized people of ALL kinds who wish to live and let live."
You guys are incredible. You know, Israel controls all the water, and all the electricity, and who can go in and out, and they have checkpoints set up within Gaza, but you somehow talk as though Palestinians have agency. That is such a stark contrast that, you must know, you're lying to yourselves.
Crack-
You can blame the Brits, for the Balfour Declaration. You can blame the League of Nations, you can blame the UN, you can blame the Jews. The Jews are in one place- Israel, and the "Palestinians" are in other places- Gaza, West Bank, and not a few here in the good old USA.
Israel occupied Gaza for many years, then left as part of a "Peace" accord, which involved uprooting Jewish settlers from land they had lived on, and told the Gazans to build a civilized society with the aid they were getting.
The "Palestinians" have received hundreds of millions of dollars of aid from the US, the UN, and other Western countries. They remained dependent on their professed enemy Israel for basic needs including food and water and electricity. Why? They used the pipes they were given to construct a water supply to make rockets. They used the money given to them to plan the current attack. The planning took 2 years, 2 years during which they did not bother to stockpile food and water and medical supplies, because Hamas cares less about "Palestinian" lives than Israel does. Israel gave people living in north Gaza 24 hours to go to safety in south Gaza. That is a distance to 12 miles or less. We know how much warning Hamas gave the Israeli babies.
How many "Palestinians" have to die so that Israel may live?
That is entirely up to Hamas and the minority of "Palestinians" who do not support Hamas. If they return the hostages and tell the Israelis where the Hamas people and resources are, it will be over quickly and with minimal loss of life. The chances of that happening are zero.
The "Palestinians" chose this, and they will suffer for it.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"Only total annihilation of the jews is acceptable to them."
Because they took their home. What would you do to get your home back? How far would you go? Who would you let talk you out of it?
Again, what you're saying stands in such a stark contrast that - you have to know - you're lying to yourself.
Oligonicella said...
"For Crack, history starts at a point of convenience of his determination. If one cannot be found, he'll invent it."
I said, you guys don't counter what I say, you just talk shit. This is a good example of shit.
I stand w Isreal. Leftists, Mullahs, Hamas-Palistinian terrorists can suck it said...
"Edward Said? You've got to be kidding."
NOPE: They stole his home. What do you think he was going to come away with? I love everybody? Nothing in that Newsweek article invalidates a word that he has said about his lived experience as a Palestinian. It calls into question his scholarship on the question of Orientalism, but nothing on the subject of Israel.
I think you're the one who must be kidding.
West TX Intermediate Crude said...
"How many "Palestinians" have to die so that Israel may live?"
The better question for me is why must anyone die so Israel may live? The Palestinians didn't do anything to them. Didn't chase the Jews away - the Romans did. They didn't put the Jews in ovens, Germany did. Their crime was being poor, and not having the power to stop the international community from running them over.
I'd say let the Jews live in Rome or let them live in Germany, but we were the ones who decided to take in all the Nazi criminals and make them space cadet superstars, so I see no reason why we shouldn't invite them here.
Caliph Umar's Arabs colonized that area in ~635 AD stealing it from the indigenous Jews and Christians of the Byzantine Empire. I agree we must decolonize that area.
Free Constantinople!!!
Leland said...
"in 1948, various Muslim countries warned that their people should leave Israel, because those nations planned to destroy Israel from Jordan to the sea."
In 1946 the Zionists were already bombing Muslim areas - I've seen the evidence. You guys, I've also already seen the quotes from cynical Zionist leaders, saying that everybody else had to leave because they wanted that space. You can't have it both ways: Either the Romans chased them away or they were always there, and - if Jews were always there - they weren't pushing people around, before the Zionists showed up, because everyone says they were living in peace.
That's as good a reason for anyone to want them gone as anything. But you're gonna try and paint it as though everyone else is the bad guy. That's just old colonial, racist era bullshit.
Apparently the words "total" and "final" have different definitions in Crackworld. They want to murder us too dummy.
Centuries past, they just called them Palestinians
No they didn't. They were called arabs and jews or jordanians. Where do you guys learn this crap?
Because they took their home.
You keep making that claim, but you do not give credence to the proper history of the circumstances.
You say the Jews stole the land and are still uprooting Palestinians today. Back that up. In 2 wars the Arabs attacked Israel with the expressed intention of killing the Jews and stealing their land. in 1947 the Arab population left on the recommendation of the Arab neighbors so they could avoid being killed accidently. That did not work out as expected. Their land is forfeit.
I ask you, do you know how many Jews were expelled from their own land in neighboring Arab states at this same time? Do you agree that the Jews should then murder Arab babies and rape their women in retaliation for that theft?
In 1967, the Arab world again tried for a war of annihilation. It also went poorly and the west bank was forfeit. That is normal response to war behavior. Tell me Israel is not justified in those war spoils.
But the claim of Palestinians being evicted in favor of Brooklyn Jews is not even claimed by Aljazeera. What I read from them is that Jews are making settlements on unoccupied land (possibly under dubious legal grounds), not evicting Palestinians from their land.
Please cite your evidence for your claims.
Gaza is a strip of land that is 5 miles wide and 25 miles long, filled with 2 million people - half of which are children.
Many of those "savages" who attacked Israel a week ago had never been outside of Gaza's borders before in their lives.
Israel likes to claim that it's a democracy, but it's not a real democracy, because, if it was, it would already be an Arab country.
The Israelis once viewed Hamas as useful, for undermining a two-state solution, which Netanyahu and many others have been interested in doing for a long time.
These are but a few of the "fun facts" I've picked up in the last week. None of which fit the official "narrative."
Jews bought and paid for the land on which they live. The payment included lives, blood and treasure. They allow any peaceful arabs that wish to stay to stay. Show me one example of any area claimed by arabs where they allow jews to stay in peace and live their lives the way arabs live and love and vote and thrive within Israel. They were driven out. Your funhouse mirror world is a lie.
No arab who claims to be palestinian today was driven off the land by jews. Their great-parents voluntarily left so that arab armies could concur Israel, and Egypt promised them the "right of return" after Israel was destroyed. But Israel was not destroyed. Arabs tend to promise more than they can really deliver and that's why you are butt hurt today and simping for murderers. If the palestinian homeless camp wants to pretend to be a nation-state and start hellish wars then war it is. War is hell. If not exactly peace there was detente on 10/6 and this new war was declared on 10/7.
It's no use using historical records or logic in genuine attempts to reason with apologists for Hamas atrocities or Palestine liberationists. It becomes like a robotic Q&A session with "ChatPLA". Now even innocuous, uplifting photo cafes get held hostage and every thread seems like "it's another Taqiyyah Sunrise."
'So after I was overcome about where extremism in America was headed, I turned to the NFL to learn about "defenseless" rules that ignore "offenseless" interactions. So the 49ers got hit with two virtually back-to-back personal fouls during a key fourth-quarter drive that gave the Browns the lead.'
NFL rules are a disaster...they change them every ten minutes, which is why you can never compare players from different eras.
I have a friend who played in the '70s and '80s as a receiver (you would know his name). He got the shit kicked out of him the whole way down the field. Kind of tough to run an actual route.
Crack, like a good leftist, you're just lying now.
The majority of land acquired by Jews from local Arabs before Israeli independence was bought and paid for. The Arabs that were dispossessed by the war in 1948 were told to leave by the 5 invading Arab armies so they would not be in the way when the Arabs pushed the pesky Israelis into the sea. They left voluntarily, and their side lost the war. Now they clamor for a "Right to Return," and right that has been granted to no defeated people anywhere else ever (maybe the Mexicans currently invading the US are an exception).
After WWII, millions of people were dispossessed and became refugees, like the majority of people who survived in eastern Europe. Baghdad was once 25% Jewish. It's all history. Get over it, or continue to carry water for people whose best day is when they can kill a baby, blow up an Olympic village, blow up a school, or rape a young women in the name of their "homeland."
Bill Maher is a liberal. Sometimes he says true stuff about his own team. So what?
All sorts of people have ever-shifting opinions and alliances. again - so what?
Except Drago - who can find ZERO faults with his lord and savior.
The Jews had to kill in order to make [their settlement in Israel] possible.
And...
Only total annihilation of the jews is acceptable to them."
Because they took their home. What would you do to get your home back?
Well. It's been my understanding - so far not challenged by any actual evidence to the contrary, going all the way back to my high school years when Gahrie here and I used to argue about the same question - that although yes, Jews were rather suddenly and unilaterally granted that piece of land upon which people (including Jews) were already living, it was the neighboring countries who urged the Muslim residents to leave, telling them they'd have a "right of return" that those neighboring countries could only fulfill if they succeeded in driving all the Jews out of the area. Which they didn't. And it's been my understanding that the Muslims who didn't leave were not killed but became Israel citizens.
Was there, is there, discrimination against these Muslims in Israel? Probably... But they're very much alive, and especially compared to their unfortunate Gazan fellows, thriving.
It's also unambiguously true that the Palestinians have received incredible amounts of "humanitarian aid" money, which apparently Hamas hasn't even chosen to divide between arms and humanitarian projects like water infrastructure. It's so much more effective propaganda if the Gazans continue to live miserably in that "open-air prison" of their leaders' making. The fact of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians' working legally in Israel belies any claim that is Israel keeping a brother down, it seems to me.
I can also say unequivocally that I wouldn't target, murder, and video the murder of children to get my home back. I know you wouldn't either, I'm quite sure of that, so why is it acceptable for Hamas to do so?
'I'm fine': Father reveals final words of boy, six, who was 'murdered for being Muslim' - as Illinois landlord is charged with stabbing him 26 times with 12-inch knife - 'because of Israel terror attacks'
There's 1 million kids in Gaza, and everyone's wondering what they did to deserve this.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Centuries past, they just called them Palestinians
No they didn't. They were called arabs and jews or jordanians. Where do you guys learn this crap?
Sorry Mike, but I think that's true too. The reason why everyone keeps saying "Palestine wasn't a state" is because phrasing it that way, hides the fact the Palestinians and the British were in the process of making it a state but it got sabotaged by Zionists before completion.
yes and israelis know that haj amin husseini, like bandera, like pavlecic, sided with Hitler,
that the partner in peace abu mazen funded munich, after his soviet graduate studies in holocaust denial
Jamie said...
"Well. It's been my understanding,..."
I had a certain understanding when this started myself, but I'm challenging it. By looking at other people's experiences. I gave you a link to the Edward Said story. Watch it. See if you can explain it to yourself.
"I can also say unequivocally that I wouldn't target, murder, and video the murder of children to get my home back. I know you wouldn't either, I'm quite sure of that, so why is it acceptable for Hamas to do so?"
You and I are not destined to die in an "open air prison". We have no idea the passions are stirred up in these people after everything that's happened to them. You feel sorry that something happened to the Jews in Germany but, if the Jews do something to somebody else, all of a sudden your empathy is gone? You clearly understand that Israel controls their water, their power, everything, but you somehow think they should be in the mood to play nice? Gaza is half filled with children. Is that stopping Israel from going in? Everything about this exists based on a double standard that's as clear as the one Democrats use against conservatives in this country.
West TX Intermediate Crude said...
"The Arabs that were dispossessed by the war in 1948 were told to leave by the 5 invading Arab armies so they would not be in the way when the Arabs pushed the pesky Israelis into the sea. They left voluntarily, and their side lost the war."
There are huge holes in this story:
What about that story says they should lose their land? They got out-of-the-way for a war. That makes sense. They wanted to be safe. Now why can't they come back? What makes them on the other side for seeking safety from a battle they didn't start and had nothing to do with but they lived there already?
Put those questions with the one about what gives people the right to return after 3000 years, claiming the land for anything more than archaeological digs?
planetgeo said...
"It's no use using historical records or logic in genuine attempts to reason with apologists for Hamas atrocities or Palestine liberationists".
Now you sound like a liberal. This is an issue that calls out for facts and links, and I've provided some - none of you have - instead, you want to act like an elitist who thinks that discussing things, like Trump, with other people is below you.
I'm more than happy to be corrected and say I'm wrong if I'm wrong. You can't be bothered. That's a loser.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"Jews bought and paid for the land on which they live. The payment included lives, blood and treasure."
This is more "reparations is what we say It is" bullshit.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"They want to murder us too dummy."
I don't know who "we" are in your mind. I'm an atheist. I'm not safe with any of you. From the Christians to the Muslims, to the Jews to the New Age movement, all of you are mad, violent, and have a Death Wish to me. And you all have fine reasons why you should stay that way. You are The Avengers: Protectors of the Status Quo. Hell, Christians here just want the Jews to win over there so that Jesus can come back and everybody who's not a Christian can go to Hell while they go to Heaven - after the Mormons, who will definitely beat them on the way to their new planet. Are you feeling me yet?
I am one of the few people on this planet with no belief system, looking at, and being abused by, you unbelievable bastards. I am no more shocked by Hamas attacking Israel and killing babies than I am Heaven's Gate putting on track suits and committing suicide. Did I tell you my wife left for a homeopath? You are all outside of my range of "normal". And there's nothing I can do about it, but endure the rest of my life with you. If somebody wants to kill "us" that's just par for the course as far as I'm concerned. That's the world you guys want. You run it. Not me. Y'all made sure of that.
Wa St Blogger said...
"You say the Jews stole the land and are still uprooting Palestinians today. Back that up."
I keep telling you to watch the video I provided. If you don't do so, that's not my problem.
Crack, like a good leftist, you're just lying now.
He's definitely not a leftist. And he's not lying - he is, for reasons I think I partly understand, putting forth a version of history that (1) undermines Israel's clear moral superiority in this matter, and (2) is seen as standing with an oppressed group.
The reasons I think I partly understand (and I welcome clarification or outright denial by the man himself, I'm not a mind reader) are, first, I think Crack sees value in challenging "received wisdom." Second, I think he does not support a war that he sees as costing the US a lot for no perceptible benefit. (YMMV.) Third, I think he might believe that if he can sway a "Zionist" (I mean, I think the mask is pretty much totally off the often-stated, international "I'm not anti-Jew, I'm anti-Zionist" claim at this point) to feel some sympathy for the Palestinians, it may provide an opening to the domestic reparations argument.
The thing is, a lot of people here agree with at least parts of all of these points: that we shouldn't just march in lockstep believing what we're told by our betters, that we should really think hard before committing US treasure, to say nothing of lives, to any war including this one, and that the Palestinians, as distinguished from Hamas, are objects of pity - that they have internalized a tissue of lies and have raised their children to believe that the people denying them prosperity and dignity are the Israelis and not their own somewhat-elected leaders.
But geez, Crack. By now it must be clear that you're not going to get anywhere by trying to convince anyone here who's not already on the Palestinians' side that - even if every single historical claim you make were as well-supported as the claims on the Israeli side are - the actions of Hamas are what we would do if our ancestral homes had been stolen from our grandparents. Or that not murdering children is a white thing and all the white people here are doing something white supremacist by insisting that people of color not respond to wrongs against them by murdering children. That approach is clearly not working - I don't think you even believe it yourself.
Presidential Olympics!!
Hilarious!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713556354470666250
Crack is not interested in facts. He identifies with the so-called Palestinians because they are the downtrodden and designated victims, just as he sees himself. Most Irish people feel the same way. It's fucking pathetic and revolting. Mostly, it's just unacknowledged feelings of inferiority toward the Jews.
(Reuters) -Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said the actions and policies of Islamist group Hamas do not represent Palestinian people, according to official news agency WAFA.
LOL not even Abbas agrees with the Jew haters on this blog or the students agitating for genocide.
Jamie said...
"Geez, Crack. By now it must be clear that you're not going to get anywhere by trying to convince anyone here who's not already on the Palestinians' side that - even if every single historical claim you make were as well-supported as the claims on the Israeli side are - the actions of Hamas are what we would do if our ancestral homes had been stolen from our grandparents."
I wouldn't do it. But I've mentioned my home in South Central being taken over, many times, so I know there's pain and passion. Or I know it somewhat. I wasn't there for 100s or thousands of years. I can't help but think time would play a role in how extreme things can get.
"Or that not murdering children is a white thing and all the white people here are doing something white supremacist by insisting that people of color not respond to wrongs against them by murdering children."
As soon as this started, and what pretty much set me off, was the way super-sensitive civilians started calling people "monsters" and "savages" - actively dehumanizing people - the way Hamas dehumanizes people when they talk. I haven't excused Hamas's actions, but I'm not gonna adopt a therapeutic mindset about war. I understand that human beings are going to fight if there is a fight to be had. That doesn't make them anything but human beings. As far as the race angle, on the same day we find out white people were robbing black graves for science, that might be a hard sell (LOL - that was a joke).
"That approach is clearly not working - I don't think you even believe it yourself."
You're right, but I'm injured, and in bed with nothing better to do. Might as well try to "save the planet,..."
Let me reemphasize the critical part: You're on the list. Here's their kill list in order of importance (although any opportunity to work the list will be taken) and yes you are on it:
1. Jews
2. Non-believers (defined as not Muslim)
3. Muslims who are slightly different from the Muslims in charge
This is why I correctly noted "They want to murder us too dummy." Even "Palestinian-Israelis" who were born in and still live in Israel are starting to "get it." You're on the list. We all are. If in the remote chance you are NOT covered by the above list, then by definition you are the ones doing the genocide and working down the list.
Taking Planetgeo's advice I am now disengaging from ChatPLA so have a nice day.
What about that story says they should lose their land? They got out-of-the-way for a war. That makes sense. They wanted to be safe. Now why can't they come back? What makes them on the other side for seeking safety from a battle they didn't start and had nothing to do with but they lived there already?
"Hey, we are religiously, and philosphically aligned with the people trying to annihilate you, so we left to give them freedom to do it without pesky collateral.. But since they failed, we'd like to come back and live in your communities until the next time."
Yeah, sounds very reasonable to me, especially given the context that in the decade preceding that there was another attempt by the member of the community they live to annihilate them.
Jews are fighting for survival, Palestinians are fighting for the ability to kill Jews. Perspective matters.
in 1967, there were 400,000 people living in Gaza. Now there are 2.4 million. If it's an open air prison, one, why such rapid growth, 2, why can't these people move into the lands confiscated from the Jews in the other Arab nations. you know, a land swap deal? It's because they don't want to live in any land, they want to kill Jews, and you are too blind to understand that.
You do know that Egypt bars them on the southern from going there, right? The Arabs don't want them living in their land either, but you insist that they should live with the Jews, the people they literally want to Annihilate.
I don't think the Israeli people are pure as the driven snow, but side-by-side with Palestinians? That looks like some pretty good snow to me.
“even if every single historical claim you make were as well-supported as the claims on the Israeli side are - the actions of Hamas are what we would do if our ancestral homes had been stolen from our grandparents.”
I think more to that point, if someone did what Hamas did to our family, we wouldn’t want to destroy them as Israel wants to do now. That is what I’m seeing, except it isn’t my family. Any normal day, I could not care less what happens in that part of the world. I really could not care less about the type of people who would attend a rave event and travel internationally to do it. But I also know those type of people are exactly the kind of people that would be receptive to Crack’s arguments, but they were slaughtered anyway. If Hamas thinks they are good to be killed, then there is no negotiating with them. I think most of the world recognizes this.
Old and slow said...
"Crack is not interested in facts."
It's a good thing this keeps getting repeated by people who don't provide any. Otherwise, I'd think they're hypocrites.
"He identifies with the so-called Palestinians because they are the downtrodden and designated victims, just as he sees himself."
I've always sang about the poor anyway. (I haven't looked to see if there's another body in the alley yet, for me to look down upon to "feel good about myself", but I'll be sure to let you know.) Remember: I'm the guy who can Rock and also play Country, and also Rap, and also play Jazz, and also play Industrial music, but no one will allow me to do any of it, because (as Jamie said) I'm not a fan of received wisdom. Or spirituality. Or pseudoscience. Or any of the rest of the bullshit that the rest of you apparently NEED to sustain yourselves. You want people like Madonna - one dimensional, over-sexed fools with a cult. Lord knows, you can't have somebody who actually cares about people.
"Most Irish people feel the same way. It's fucking pathetic and revolting. Mostly, it's just unacknowledged feelings of inferiority toward the Jews."
Comparative suffering? Get out of here. Would I be the Shabbos at synagogues and all that other stuff, repeatedly, if I didn't like Jews and hold them in high esteem? I think that's the difference: I've spent so much time around Jews that they're just people to me. Other people want to look at them as something special, but they're not. That's what makes what happened to them in Germany so tragic: They were just people, and for whatever mystical reason you spiritual types conjured, they were set upon by other people. And that's what's happened to the Palestinians. Y'all just don't get that yet.
Well said, Owen, at 7:48AM!
Crack- What about that story says they should lose their land? They got out-of-the-way for a war. That makes sense. They wanted to be safe. Now why can't they come back? What makes them on the other side for seeking safety from a battle they didn't start and had nothing to do with but they lived there already?
They left to make it easier for the invading armies to kill the people that remained. I agree there is a degree of "smart" in this, but expecting to return to the status quo ante and go back to being besties with ones who stayed and fought is more than even a Palestinian should expect. The Arabs who stayed and laid low kept their land and they and their descendants are Israeli citizens, near-full participants in the most advanced society in the Middle East.
You say, "The Palestinians didn't do anything to them [Israelis/Jews]. Is there anyone in the world who is surprised by the events of the past 2 weeks? It's totally in character, given their activities of the past 75 years; the only surprise is that they were so successful.
Bonus question: Did Hamas plan their operation for the day of the Peace Rave, or was it just a delicious target of opportunity for them?
“Many of those "savages" who attacked Israel a week ago had never been outside of Gaza's borders before in their lives.”
Ask yourself “why?”
I’m told Jeffrey Dahmer had never been to France.
I'm sorry you're injured, Crack - get well soon!
Anyone else amazed by the ability of Palestinians to go over and under and around the Israeli border fence to kill Jews but the complete lack of industriousness when it comes to getting into Egypt? Amazingly selective engineering skills.
"A Textbook Case of Genocide": Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel's Assault on Gaza
" They were just people, and for whatever mystical reason you spiritual types conjured, they were set upon by other people. And that's what's happened to the Palestinians. Y'all just don't get that yet."
Yeah. We kinda do. Just like the average German citizen had to pay for the horrors of WW2 in Germany. Their errors in judgement for electing NAZIs. The average Palestinian is going to pay for their errors in jkudgement for electing the PLO and later Hamas.
What ya'all ain't gettin' is that you start shit at your own peril. And you especially don't start shit with the big dog unless you can take the big dog.
The history of the Palestinian people-so called- is that they have been given many opportunities to be self reliant. They have rejected them all.
Now if you're so weeweed up over the Palestinians get your ass over there and help fight some Israelis.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"Let me reemphasize the critical part: You're on the list. Here's their kill list in order of importance (although any opportunity to work the list will be taken) and yes you are on it:
1. Jews
2. Non-believers (defined as not Muslim)
3. Muslims who are slightly different from the Muslims in charge"
Again, you're not telling me anything I don't know. Now let me tell you something I do know: I have traveled the world, and many times I've had to rely on Muslims when nobody else was around. If you want decent food living in Europe, by American standards, you're gonna find yourself in a lot of Arab kebab shops. That's almost the hamburger of Europe. I can't tell you how fast I got sick of the traditional French diet. And then, when you get to Alsace, which is part German, then you start getting into a lot of white sauces over everything. And I got food poisoning all the time. That didn't happen when I ate kosher Arab food. So I spent a lot of time with Arab people. It was unavoidable. I had to eat. And just like here, they are just people with deeply-held religious beliefs. And they treated me good. They actually wanted to hear my weird music and talk about America and we laughed a lot. They even came to my gigs when I was playing music in their area.
At the same time, the French were duplicitous. I remember one French guy who was kind of like the Mayor of the village and he was assuring me that Arab complaints of discrimination were all false. But then, one day, by chance I came up behind him as he was speaking with a small crowd of French people, and he was assuring them that he wasn't going to give an inch to those bastards. So there you go. One day, my brother-in-law's friend pulled me aside, and fearfully said I shouldn't hang out with those guys. When I asked why, he became befuddled and just blurted out "I don't know." I didn't feel like I had a choice. I was over there for a couple years and had to associate with someone.
My take is Terrorists won't take black hostages. At worst, they think that the west brainwashed us. One Arab kid from my village was part of that last huge attack in Paris that happened a few years long ago - but he liked me. Wanted to be cool - like me. My old bandmate, Michael Franti, went to Palestine and they liked him, too. He's no Muslim. He ain't an asshole, either.
Welcome to reality.
Wa St Blogger said...
"Hey, we are religiously, and philosphically aligned with the people trying to annihilate you, so we left to give them freedom to do it without pesky collateral.. But since they failed, we'd like to come back and live in your communities until the next time."
No, no, let me sit here and die with you Zionists, person who I don't want to live here because they claim to own this land. And not wanting to die with you, that alone means I give up all rights to my property. That I don't want to die with you. I don't know you. I don't even like you. In part, because you think this way. Nobody's forcing you to do this. This is just your bright idea.
Zionists are fighting to stay where they're not wanted.
"They don't want to live in any land, they want to kill Jews, and you are too blind to understand that."
Maybe. I think people are more nuanced than that. I understand religious fanaticism, but y'all don't even check that here because you just don't care enough to - that's what Jonestown was all about. David Koresh. NXIVM. One Taste, and on and on and on. I live in a world of religious fanaticism. What did my man, here, say about his wife doing yoga? He'll do something about it when she starts acting weird. That's concern. Y'all are too blind to see how selective you are.
"You do know that Egypt bars them on the southern from going there, right? The Arabs don't want them living in their land either, but you insist that they should live with the Jews, the people they literally want to Annihilate."
They're not Egyptian. And I didn't say anything about them living with the Jews. I said the Jews should leave. They've caused enough trouble. Come to America. We got a lot of land. We turned them away during World War II so we kind of owe them one. It's better than being someplace where you regularly have to slaughter people because they hate your guts for what you did.
"I don't think the Israeli people are pure as the driven snow, but side-by-side with Palestinians? That looks like some pretty good snow to me."
That's because they only show you when Palestinian strike back. Their daily humiliation is not on the news. Palestinians died over the the previous few weeks to the attack. Did you hear anything? So you have a one-sided view of things. You usually understand media manipulation. You usually understand that there are narratives out there and that means that they're covering something up. You usually understand that you have to push back against those narratives in order to find out what it is that they're actually saying to us. Right now they are saying that 2 million people have to go someplace to get away from the killing machine that's coming, when you just told me that no one will take them. So what do you think is going to happen to them? They're going to get killed. They didn't parachute into Israel. They didn't do anything but just not want the Zionists there.
Leland said...
"I could not care less what happens in that part of the world. I really could not care less about the type of people who would attend a rave event and travel internationally to do it."
Amen to that.
"But I also know those type of people are exactly the kind of people that would be receptive to Crack’s arguments, but they were slaughtered anyway."
See, this is where we part ways, because those are the same people who canceled me. So you're wrong: they're not gonna listen to me. Do you know how I know this? Because they canceled me for saying that they should listen to conservatives. My point is, I'm more open minded than both of you. And neither of you are willing to listen. You're stuck in your receptive corners making judgments about each other based on nothing. Definitely not actual experience.
"If Hamas thinks they are good to be killed, then there is no negotiating with them. I think most of the world recognizes this."
When you realize the Palestinian people are not Hamas, then we'll start getting somewhere. I grew up with the Crips and the Bloods. My brother is a Crip. Snoop Dogg is a Crip. Are you gonna tell me you don't like Snoop Dogg? You hate the Palestinian people because they know people like that. But, if you come up from the bottom, everybody knows people like that. We've talked about that before when we've discussed gang violence. I just want you to notice the difference between our arguments. You talk about people being evil - you dehumanize them - while I talk about ethics. People do wild things when wronged.
"He identifies with the so-called Palestinians because they are the downtrodden and designated victims, just as he sees himself."
Lord knows, you can't have somebody who actually cares about people. Oh, if only I had sung a song about those rich men in Richmond,...
Is it true that "Terrorists won't take black hostages"? Wikipedia's article "2023 Israel-Hamas war" has a complete list of the numbers of foreigners killed, kidnapped, and missing, sorted by the number killed. The 8th country in the list is Eritrea, 7 killed. But hey, at least they're not being held as hostages! Last on the list is Tanzania, with unknown killed, unknown kidnapped, and 2 definitely missing (agriculture students). The longer they stay missing, the more likely they are to be hostages, and it's already been 9 days. The 3 Brazilians and 2 South Africans may well be from their white minorities, if they were concert-goers rather than students, but some of the 30 Americans killed and 13 missing, most of the latter probably hostages, may well be black, and the same goes for the victims from a dozen other Latin American countries. And Hamas slaughtered plenty of non-black non-whites: the 2nd country on the list is Thailand, with 28 killed, 17 kidnapped, and 14 missing, and the 6th is Nepal, with 10 killed, 17 kidnapped, and 1 missing.
By the way, isn't it amazing that we don't have any list of these 30 + 13 Americans. Why not?
Zionists are fighting to stay where they're not wanted.
Before that they were dying by the millions for living in other places where they were not wanted. You have a very convenient blind spot to their lived experience at the time. They have been killed and persecuted for centuries. There was a concerted effort to wiped them completely out. They could not trust that ANY other government but their own would protect them. You have no concept of what Never Again really means. You think slavery was bad and gives you perspective as a black man. You've got nothing on the people reeling from attempted genocide. I would think you would have more sympathy for what was very real and very recent. many settles in Israel personally knew people who were murdered. how many slaves did you personally know?
In 1946 there were 1.8 million people in the Palestine/Israel territory. 30% were Jews.
from Wikipedia:
"The Jewish exodus from the Muslim world was the migration, departure, flight and expulsion of around 900,000 Jews from Muslim-majority countries in West Asia, North Africa and, to a lesser extent, Central Asia, South Asia and Southeast Asia in the 20th century. "
"The precise number of refugees, many of whom settled in refugee camps in neighboring states, is a matter of dispute[16] but around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (half of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes.[17][18] About 250,000–300,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled during the 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine, "
Land swap. Why are only the Jews held to account in your book? It was obvious that they were not accepted in other places. Not wanted anywhere. That is the highest justification for securing a land that they control instead of being subject to the shifting winds of politics in countries where they were always a minority. The history of man shows that minorities are rarely given a fair shake. I would think you could understand that.
There are 1.9 million Palestinians living in Israel today. More than the whole population of all Mandatory Palestine in 1947. I bet many of them *cough*women, gays*cough* enjoy more freedoms in Israel than they do in Palestinian controlled lands.
Anyway, I understand their position and think that there are no people group on earth who would not have done what they did given the same circumstances. One might argue that everyone deserves a homeland. Arabs have lots of choices. Jews have one.
Dr Weevil said...
"Is it true that "Terrorists won't take black hostages"? Wikipedia's article "2023 Israel-Hamas war" has a complete list of the numbers of foreigners killed, kidnapped, and missing, sorted by the number killed. The 8th country in the list is Eritrea, 7 killed. But hey, at least they're not being held as hostages! Last on the list is Tanzania,...."
American blacks are who I mean by "blacks". The descendants of American slaves. Even Obama doesn't qualify. If he wasn't the president, and the terrorists got hold of him, they'd take his ass out in a minute. Why? No swag.
They want that cool, Baby.
Wa St Blogger said...
"Before that they were dying by the millions for living in other places where they were not wanted. You have a very convenient blind spot to their lived experience at the time."
No, I don't - they fucked up. Their problem is the opposite of black people's: instead of being stuck where they put us, they chose a bad spot to land. And I don't know why you guys keep patronizing people, and insisting I don't know the Holocaust story, just because I come to another conclusion about how it should end.
It's not a tale of redemption and renewal If it ends with them covered in blood after killing everybody.
Wa St Blogger said...
"Jews have one."
Since when? We decided to turn them away in World War II. That's why they didn't have another choice. OUR antisemitism and racism. Now white guys seem a lot more amenable to them, so why not invite them here?
You can make up for past transgressions and spare everybody a lot of trouble.
By the way, since when are Jews or Israelis any 'whiter' than Palestinians or Arabs? And since when do the latter count as non-white?
When I was in high school over 50 years ago, I learned what seems to me still to be obviously true, that most of the world's population belongs to one of three - or maybe three and a half - races, which were then called 'Caucasian', 'Negro', and 'Oriental'. The change of names since then does not affect the facts. American Indians were a branch of 'Orientals'. Even if we count them as a separate branch, those two branches were much more closely related than the others: if we numbered the races, they would not be 1-4, but 1, 2, 3a, and 3b.
'Hispanic' is of course not a race, since Hispanics may be 100% American Indian (most Guatemalans), or European (most Costa Ricans), or African (many Brazilians), or Asian (Alberto Fujimori), or any combination of the four in any proportion.
I also learned that the Caucasian race included Middle Easterners, North Africans, and (Asian) Indians. This seems obviously true, as it is (and was then) also obviously true that race is not color, and not closely correlated with color. Some southern Indians are in fact darker-complexioned than 9 out of 10 Africans, but they're still obviously Caucasians: they tend to have long narrow noses, wavy but far from curly hair, and thin lips, unlike Sub-Saharan Africans and like Europeans.
Since then, I've learned that there are a couple of other, less numerous, distinct races: a. The aboriginal inhabitants of Australia and New Guinea may look rather like black Africans, but are only distantly related, and were the first to leave Africa. b. The San people of Namibia, formerly known as 'Bushmen', are genetically more different from all other humans than any other humans are from each other. So it looks like there are five races, maybe six if we count American Indians as separate. But Palestinians and other Arabs are still Caucasians. And I suspect that some of the 256 Israeli soldiers killed so far in the latest war are Ethiopian Falashas, so there are almost certainly more actual non-whites fighting for Israel than for Hamas.
A red flag for me is how well we know the Holocaust story, while what happens after that all of a sudden gets real murky, as we get fed this unbelievable hero's journey bullshit, about a formally-traumatized people acting perfect in every way, while the normal un-traumatized Arabs they're invading are *always* Ali Baba awful.
And then, of course, there's the one-sided media reporting, that leaves out any attack that the Zionists committed against the Arabs in the early days, while they can get very specific about any slight that the Jews felt from anywhere in the outside world. It just doesn't wash, and it's not antisemitic to say so.
It's been over a week since I've been re-looking at this, and all the story does is fall apart. While the Palestinian story just gets stronger and stronger. No one on Earth should have to live like they do. And I'm not sure if the Zionists have a right to live there after forcing them to live like that. If the Zionists want to live next-door to that, then they are the animals. And putting a rave next to it probably was asking for somebody to die because that's a clear provocation.
None of this shit makes sense the way they're telling us.
If [Obama] wasn't the president, and the terrorists got hold of him, they'd take his ass out in a minute. Why? No swag.
Because it's, at root, a propagandas battle?
Exactly.
Crack. By this time, it must be clear that it's ok to be on the side of The Establishment. It doesn't equate to a gung-ho warmongering fervor - it's just saying that Hamas did unconscionable things, and far too many Palestinians on the ground (and freaking stupid college students) supported those things. Brainwashing, for lack of a more modern term, and giving the victims of it the full benefit of the doubt, can account for that, though not fully shield the sufferers of the brainwashing from the consequences of their break from reality.
The current generation of Palestinians have been taught since birth that Jews are their natural enemies. The fact that they respond in a way that, by those lights, would be "rational" does not mean that it is in fact rational. You are a rational person. You know this.
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