"Can anyone really judge him in a fair way? Because here’s a guy who has had an uncle assassinated, a father assassinated. No one wants to open up the files. So you must say to yourself, What is the reason for that? You start not trusting governments. I don’t live with this kind of suspicion, because nothing ever happened to me that makes me feel like that. But a lot of things happened to him, so this is where he is coming from. I’m not saying rightfully or wrongfully. I’m just saying I can see why someone like him is the way he is."
Said Arnold Schwarzenegger, responding to a NYT interviewer, in "Arnold Schwarzenegger Is Here to Pump You Up (Emotionally)."
Schwarzenegger is promoting a new book (which has a Jordon Petersonesque title: "Be Useful: Seven Tools for Life").
The interviewer, David Marchese, had asked "what do you make of R.F.K. Jr.’s anti-vax, conspiracist turn?"
Marchese follows up — evoking the Moynihan meme you are not entitled to your own facts — "But we can be sympathetic to someone and what happened to them and also say facts are facts."
Schwarzenegger seems unaware of the old meme. He says: "His facts are different. I understand what you’re saying, but there’s people out there who have their own facts."
Nudged — "That’s the problem" — Schwarzenegger catches up: "Of course it’s a problem, but I’m just saying it’s not that you can go to someone and say, 'Look, these are the facts.' I see Bobby in Gold’s Gym. I like him, and I love that he’s out there running. I will always say great things about Bobby, because during my entire existence with the Kennedys he always treated me with respect. I will always do this the same way back: absolute respect."
Marchese leaves it at that, as well he should. Schwarzenegger has already conceded that his support for Bobby is deep family love — reinforced by the fellowship of Gold's Gym.
The conversation moves on. There's a lot about Schwarzenegger's acting — how much he got from Clint Eastwood and Milton Berle, etc. But Marchese gets back to politics. I'll just jump back into the conversation here — the boldface is Marchese — where the subject is — once again — the notion of having "your own facts":
But making decisions just based on polls is what makes politicians say that Jan. 6 was overblown or that Trump won the 2020 election.
If politicians don’t feel comfortable with the truth, that’s nothing unusual. These guys can lie better than anybody. Some people do that in order to get re-elected. For that, they will say, “Yes, this election was rigged.” If you put them on the lie detector, I can guarantee you it’ll be a different story. But that’s OK. They have to play their schmäh in their game, and it doesn’t mean I have to buy into this whole thing....
Schmäh came up earlier in the conversation. It's a German word Schwarzenegger likes to use. It doesn't mean lying, he said, but "kind of like, you wrap it up in a more attractive package... [i]n order to sell something." I'm not making a new tag for "schmäh." I'm just using my old English-word tag, "propaganda." But it might mean something closer to "sales pitch."
Marchese brings up Nazis:
You grew up in Austria right after World War II. You had exposure to people who believed in fascism. So when you hear people say Donald Trump is a burgeoning fascist or the Republican Party is authoritarian, does that sound alarmist to you, or do you think there’s truth to it?
Schwarzenegger gives an elegant, low-key response — incorporating the notion of schmäh:
I cannot tell you if Trump is prejudiced. I think that he made moves and said things that sound like it, but I don’t know what’s in his heart. The right or the left, both sides have to make an effort to come together and solve problems. We need a leader who has the energy to bring people together, who sells that idea, and who is convincing enough to bring people together because they want to work together. I mean, a few months ago, we were in Washington. I met with 20-some Republicans who were interested in the environment. We didn’t talk about climate change, because they maybe are not into that. But they were into “let’s get rid of pollution.” There may be half of them who deny climate change, but definitely not pollution. So you repackage it. The search has to be for the sweet spot rather than how can I attack the other side.
Marchese invites Schwarzenegger to name someone who could be a unifying figure. Schwarzenegger names Deion Sanders. But he quickly shifts to a high level of generality. We need "someone who comes in and doesn’t talk about the details":
Just talk about the big picture: We got to go and be No. 1 as a country, and this is what we need to do, and we need to have everyone come together. Yes, we can have differences of opinions, but it has to be run as if everyone’s together on the same team for the better good. That’s what we have to do in politics rather than bickering and getting stuck in ideological corners. Someone has to come forward and talk about rebuilding the country in a really great way and about the things that are really important rather than, “Should we have a bathroom for trans people?” All the little battles just hold us up.
Posts
86 comments:
You must hide those facts though, yes?
It's funny though, how many "facts" that we were told were undeniable, turned out to be not just wrong, but politically motivated and craven lies. There are still people defending the lie that COVID was not a lab leak, and instead are pushing the fantastically unlikely theory that within a few shore miles of where genetic modifications of bat viruses were being done in a lab, in experiments that in 2015, Nature carried a warning of how dangerous that these experiments were, a once in a century naybe, worldwide, jump from bats to humans took place, with a virus that experiments showed could no longer even infect bats.
So many conspiracy theories have been shown to be supported by the preponderance of evidence, if not outright proven, that our own press, which is the main promulgator of regime lies, has had its credibility immolated, swimming against a tide of facts that have come out.
"I cannot tell you if Trump is prejudiced. I think that he made moves and said things that sound like it, but I don’t know what’s in his heart."
Meanwhile, I have no idea what he's talking about. I get no racist vibes off of Trump. He talks shit about everybody.
Fascism: collective action, everything inside the state, nothing outside the state... the Democratic party!
“ We need a leader who has the energy to bring people together, who sells that idea, and who is convincing enough to bring people together because they want to work together.”
Arnold just endorsed Vivek.
There is no bigger asshole than Deion Sanders. He has ALWAYS played the race card, denigrating the people. (the Falcons especially) as slave drivers after being payed the biggest rookie contract in NFL history at the time, then their offer to make him the highest paid player in all NFL history.
"Let's get rid of pollution..."
Everybody agrees with that!
No.
First, the left has redefined "pollution" to include CO2, a natural byproduct of every form of life. The average leftist would gladly agree with the premise that we should aim for zero CO2, which would eliminate life on earth within a few days (the few who passed high school biology class might argue for a low but still unattainable non-zero level).
Second, pollution (the old fashioned kind- soot in the air, smog) is an inevitable byproduct of modern civilization. We don't want it as bad as modern Shanghai, or Pittsburg in the 1960s, but we don't want it as low as pre-Columbian North America either. At least I don't. I like my HVAC, indoor plumbing, and the ability to travel faster than a horse can gallop. I also like eating food that comes from farther than my own county. The production of these goods and services produces pollution, a trade-off that I will fight to preserve.
Arnold is just saying things that he likes to say to people who like to hear them. Neither he nor the reporter is at any risk of losing access to these and other very nice things.
The majority of humanity, who know of them and may have some taste of such things, want in.
Arnold should have said “Bobby has a different experience.” not “different facts.”
We have very little real pollution now in the US. That’s why the Left had to turn carbon dioxide into pollution thanks to a 5-4 SCOTUS vote. For the Left, it is essential to have a grift and crisis to keep the money flowing.
Fact. Right. Where was he during the Russia collusion hoax?
"All the little battles just hold us up."
All battles initiated by progs--climate change, transgenderism, corrupting elections, tech censorship, covid oppression, abortion on demand at any time, debt explosion, open borders.
None is "little." The Schwarzenegger kumbaya BS is a demand to submit. Don't fight! It's so divisive! It's not nice!
Check out the community notes fact check of our own Secretary of State, this week. Talk about disinformation, not the notes, the lies of our SoS. But remember, whatever the press says is true is the Truth.
https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1707826104759705760
It's amazing that these self-proclaimed intellectuals repeat the same mindless drivel. They don't debate based on "facts", they just claim to own them. Anyone who questions the benevolence of these liberal shitheads and their narratives is a conspiracy theorist. Over and over and over and over and over... The same words. The same approach. The same repetitive stupidity.
David Marchese. Another Rolling Stone-NYTs asshole. THEY are the fascists. Sadly, most of "educated" America is too stupid to see it.
I wanna see the mRNA poison shot records and all these liberal assholes. I highly doubt David Marchese will be in line for the new booster. If these vaccine enthusiasts put their money where their mouth is, Pfizer would be trading in the mid $50's not the low $30s.
Dave Begley said...
Arnold should have said “Bobby has a different experience.” not “different facts.”
Agreed.
Dave Begley said...
"Arnold just endorsed Vivek."
I don't know. He seems like a puppy who's a little too eager to sit on my lap.
Schwarzenegger was very diplomatic when addressing a family member. The entire premise of an RFK Jr presidential run is predicated on trading on his family name (Hunter Biden). It is very disturbing how large numbers believe conspiratorial nonsense without critical analysis. And RFK Jr is just nuts.
I was surprised at what a great governor Schwarzenegger turned out to be. He was great at enacting sensible measures to improve the environment. I always felt that he simply thought, pragmatically enough, that he wanted to improve the world, and also to serve California's people, who agreed with initiatives such as those.
I haven't forgotten his message (subtitled in Russian) to the Russian people a year and a half ago. He spoke in a heartbreakingly open way about the pain that his father went through all his life, psychologically and physically, for having served Hitler's evil cause. "Your government is lying to you," he told the Russian people. Apparently, he has a large fan base in Russia, a great many of whom saw his message. I still find it moving to think of him urging them not to support this fascistic warmonger who is leading their country to ruin.
Despite all his faults, I think he's a great American. We need more like him.
Althouse writes, "Marchese follows up — evoking the Moynihan meme you are not entitled to your own facts — 'But we can be sympathetic to someone and what happened to them and also say facts are facts.'"
Obviously, David Marchese is on a mission in this interview, probably directly from Jeff Zients himself, to undermine Robert Kennedy, Jr., who is a viable threat to Biden and the party via the traditional liberals that still remain and are disgusted by what the leadership of their party has become.
Wouldn't it be nice if Schwarzenegger was as observant of rhetoric as Althouse? If he were, an opportunity to devastate the New York Times, its philosophy, and its slavish obedience to the Democrats presented itself here. The Moynihan meme is the antithesis of the foundational assumption of so-called progressive politics everywhere, but particularly in this country. Take any point from the Democrat's platform or any of those absurd lawn signs they distributed through their local party headquarters, and retort, you aren't entitled to your your own facts and the rhetoric crumbles like Dracula's staked carcass. You claim Lia Thomas identifies as a woman, therefore "she" is entitled to swim competitively against "other" women. We say changing your name doesn't change your genes. In the words of a great liberal Democrat, you are not entitled to your own facts.
So when you hear people say Donald Trump is a burgeoning fascist or the Republican Party is authoritarian, does that sound alarmist to you, or do you think there’s truth to it?
Instead, Arnold gives voice to his inner fascist?
We need "someone who comes in and doesn’t talk about the details" [ahem, facts?]: Just talk about the big picture: We got to go and be No. 1 as a country, and this is what we need to do, and we need to have everyone come together. Yes, we can have differences of opinions, but it has to be run as if everyone’s together on the same team for the better good. That’s what we have to do in politics rather than bickering and getting stuck in ideological corners.
Fact: Nothing entitles you to your mistaken facts or opinions but the 1st amendment does limit the state from impinging on your God-given right to have them. (In my opinion.)
One, all the little things add up.
And two, where did Arnold the Personality go? Was it always an act? He sounds so boring now.
Arnold’s description of Kennedy is very fair.
That's right, Arnold, we can only believe what's happened to us personally, not that which we can perceive happening to others--or, for that matter, to the nation/world.
This is like formerly religious people who stop believing in God because something bad happened to one of their loved ones. No matter that the history of humanity is terrible horrible things happening to innocents, none of which impacted their faith. Ah, but then their little cousin died of leukemia or uncle got hit by a car--and suddenly they go from Billy Graham to Nietzsche.
"screw your freedoms"
Arnold Schwarzenegger about 1 minute in
https://youtu.be/3oRdP3SYjgM?si=BYNeNqGK1K5S_LmK
John Henry
RLKjr has his own podcast on Spotify. And like Rogan it’s his guests freely talking that disclose truths. He’s a politician but he knows Pharma’s tricks from being a lawyer standing up to their lies. His reward is Big Slander all the time.
Much mockery was made of Kelly Ann Conway and her statement about "alternate facts" regarding how many saw the 2017 inauguration.
On the one hand, it does seem to be a fact that more people attended Obama's.
But an alternate fact, that Conway was pointing out, was that more people saw the 2017 when internet and TV views are included.
Two sets of facts, both equally true. (apparently)
John Henry
There are still people defending the lie that COVID was not a lab leak, and instead are pushing the fantastically unlikely theory that within a few shore miles of where genetic modifications of bat viruses were being done in a lab, in experiments that in 2015, Nature carried a warning of how dangerous that these experiments were, a once in a century naybe, worldwide, jump from bats to humans took place, with a virus that experiments showed could no longer even infect bats.
And here we already have the first illustration of the problem. The robot being quoted ignores the other SARS zoonotic jumps leading to fatal disease in humans twice within just the previous 20 years(!) - as well as every other pandemic in human history - so that he can indulge his nationalistic hatred of another country, China. A nationalistic hatred which overwhelms the uncertainty about why this circumstantial explanation would be more likely than the unhygienic microbiological orgies between species taking place in wet markets - which incidentally demonstrate equal malfeasance by China.
Why attribute to a unique connivance what can easily be explained by negligence at preventing the same naturalistic events that have caused new viral diseases in humans for thousands of years? (And twice within less than just 20 years for the same family of viruses?) Human history shows that screw-ups produce disaster way more frequently than conspiracy but that does not satisfy the psychology of the nationalist zealot. As Schwarzenegger said, it’s an emotional thing. The nationalist zealot is not satisfied entertaining the thought that not everything happens because another country is out to get him; without his paranoia he is less of a person.
Every breath we take
780,000ppm N2
210,000ppm O2
10,000ppm Argon
400ppm CO2
+trace gases
Just to help everyone keep a sense of proportion.
John Henry
"You grew up in Austria right after World War II. You had exposure to people who believed in fascism. So when you hear people say Donald Trump is a burgeoning fascist or the Republican Party is authoritarian, does that sound alarmist to you, or do you think there’s truth to it?"
Anybody who looks at today's political landscape and thinks the Republicans are the authoritarians is either excessively partisan or just plain dumb.
To be fair, Kellyanne Elizabeth Conway (née Fitzpatrick) spoke of “alternative facts,” not “alternate” facts.
I enjoyed the Terminator movies.
Rich sounds scared of a Kennedy run.
Why are you scared of democracy, Rich?
John Henry
Dave Begley said...
"Arnold should have said “Bobby has a different experience.” not “different facts.”
I absolutely hate this idea that people have their own "truths.". No, no, no, no, no, no, no!
Facts matter, but not as much as you might think. Facts are secondary. What is primary is the belief system that forms the basis of our individual religion, philosophy or moral code.
Facts are recognized or rejected based on whether or not they support the belief system.
Part of the reason for this is it's hard to determine if something presented as a fact is objectively true. Frequently, it's impossible, especially in the short term. Often, we must rely on the estimated trustworthiness of the source. It's a problem.
Althouse commenters are, of course, a different breed of cat and have special powers of discernment unavailable to the common run of humanity. And that's a fact.
There are salient facts and irrelevant facts. They change from generation to generation and from person to person. The raw data of experience needs to have some items in footnotes and some items in boldface. Everyone is entitled to choose which are the salient facts and to try to sell everyone on their relevance and importance.....Alexander Hamilton used to be considered a monarchist (i.e. a proto-fascist) and Thomas Jefferson a true democrat. There were facts in support of those arguments. Now Hamilton is considered the proponent of freedom and Jefferson a racist. There are facts in support of those arguments....So it goes. Robert E. Lee was a Southern gentlemen and an accomplished general. Ulysses S. Grant was a drunk and a butcher. Now Lee's a racist and Grant is the most brilliant general in American history. There are facts in support of all these conflicting arguments.
where did Arnold the Personality go? Was it always an act?
I think the whole “Republican in Camelot” schtick was largely an act and California regrets electing the myth. The result was the original Green Deal and an administration that was somewhere to the left of the Clinton administration and nearly as destructive as Obama. Arnold was so bad he couldn’t get elected after the one recall election. I’ve gotta get out of my home state.
That’s why the Left had to turn carbon dioxide into pollution thanks to a 5-4 SCOTUS vote.
Whether or not a compound that your body must clear from its own lungs 20 times a minute in order to not die is called a “pollutant” is a language and regulatory game, but again we see the right-wing psychological mechanisms at work. Schwarzenegger calls attention to them but seems to give in to a sense of futility at calling them out, although he gets us somewhere by at least understanding them in Maria Schriver’s cousin.
I think they should be called out. Sure, a right-wing clone has such obscure emotional and psychological processing mechanisms that they defy rational explanation, but the research is getting better at identifying them. In a nutshell, the right-winger cannot reason socially or politically, and must instead grasp at an elusive need for order that usually doesn’t serve modern human civilization well. How would order even be imposed on human societies? Easy: Hierarchy. Some people are better than others and the rest are either “degenerates” or cogs in the hierarchy.
Since the American conservative runs up against the cultural taboo of elevating leaders based on traditional hierarchies found in hereditary monarchies, or national priesthoods, they decided that wealth/poverty should define who is better or worse than anyone else. Who should lead and who should follow. And who has more wealth than just about anyone: An oil executive. So to the right-wing robot, the oil executive must be paid homage and loyalty - the same way he would have done to a lord back when he was a European serf just a thousand years ago.
And the right-wing serf serves ;-) his master, Lord Oil Executive, very well. So well, that he doesn’t care if your house is burned down by climate change, or swept away by massive floods. He will attack the very scientific foundation of how atmosphere allows for and directs climate just so that he can serve his master, at least in his mind and in the public square.
FDR was good at calling out this 30% of the population who need and value being ruled more than they do the public good and how to rationally pursue it. Our current leaders must do the same. Unfortunately we tend to let right-wingers control and stifle democracy so tightly though that we often have to relinquish to them any sensible public policy and instead wait until their proven methods of corruption and mismanagement result in disasters like 1929 or 2008 or 2020. Only then is the backlash severe enough to allow the sensible people in to fix their right-wing fuck-ups.
But even this is too much for today’s right-wingers, and the reason why they now attack the system of democratic representation which they couldn’t directly win in directly
In interview parlance “a big get” used to mean getting to interview someone well known who didn’t give interviews.
Now a “big get” connotes something different in my tin foil wearing mind.
"Nothing entitles you to your mistaken facts or opinions". No opinion is without some error; no fact is true without context. Thus we can never have an understanding of the world that is complete. This forces us all to act act speak with humility, even though we must act and speak.
And above all there are no entitlements in the world. There only is what exists at the moment. And so there is no entitlement to that which is not mistaken either.
As we are each afloat on a dingy in raging water, so is our neighbor.
Much mockery was made of Kelly Ann Conway and her statement about "alternate facts" regarding how many saw the 2017 inauguration.
On the one hand, it does seem to be a fact that more people attended Obama's.
But an alternate fact, that Conway was pointing out, was that more people saw the 2017 when internet and TV views are included.
Two sets of facts, both equally true. (apparently)
John Henry
Nicely put John. I’ll add that Trump’s original statement included the words “online and around the world” and only because the dishonest media edited his “saw” comment to appear to be an “attended” claim did any dispute arise. Being a dishonest herd journalists piled on with photos “proving Trump lied” which themselves were manipulated imagery. One has no real way to ascertain “facts” any longer because of the dishonest way media report everything.
I agree with Rich.
Arnold is a model immigrant....pro American, pro work, and I speculate pro assimilation.
I would be ok if he changed his party affiliation to D in order for Mr. Slick to appoint him to the open Sen seat.
Schmäh is an Austrian word. From the Wiki entry "Wiener [Viennese] Schmäh":
The Variantenwörterbuch des Deutschen (a German dictionary that documents geographical and dialectic differences in the German language) defines Viennese Schmäh as a typically Austrian — often perceived as superficially friendly — charm that is ascribed, especially in Western Austria, to the Viennese. The term is derived from Viennese German and has been carried over into Standard German and even in Germany is sometimes used in the form Wiener Schmäh.[4]
Wiener Schmäh is strongly associated with Austrian cabaret and stand-up comedy. In an article concerning Austrian humor, the German-language newspaper Kurier offered the following anecdote as an example of Schmäh: "A woman died. In front of her open grave stood her husband next to his wife's lover. The lover was completely broken and cried bitterly. The woman's husband laid his arm consolingly across the lover's shoulders and said: 'Don't take it so hard. I'll definitely marry again!'"
Sorry Meade. Don't know how earlier comment slipped out. Will blame it on lack of morning coffee.
Arnold should apply his rationalization of RFKJr to every other person on planet earth. It’s not just assassins that shape your life and push a distrust of government, FPS.
Well, it is obvious to me why this interview happened and was published- the interviewer and his employer wanted Schwarzenegger to dish dirt on RFK. If Bobby Kennedy were not running for President, this interview probably never happens. I give credit to Schwarzenegger for not falling for it, like many of Kennedy's actual blood relatives have already done so.
I still hope Kennedy is on the primary ballot here in TN next Spring- I intend to vote for him in the primary if given the chance.
"The Crack Emcee said...
Dave Begley said...
"Arnold just endorsed Vivek."
I don't know. He seems like a puppy who's a little too eager to sit on my lap."
LOL. Ya, that's perfect.
"...there’s people out there who have their own facts."
Yes. They're called Democrats and associates.
Arnold is gracious. I'm surprised. Good on him.
And what he says about changing the way he talks to people, not hitting their sore spots but reframing the issue, is exactly how Bobby talks.
Re: RFKJ. Maybe the first thing me and Arnold agree on...
One of my close colleagues on campus was polisci professor, a Jew whose family had fled to the US and other places after the Anschluss.
He was a school pal of Otto Habsburg, and the biographer of Bruno Kreisky. I recall when Haidar the Fascist (so it was presented) was elected, and my friend's comment was to shake his head and comment to the effect that the American media never has a clue about the political realities of Europe, especially in the small countries.
There's a significant (I won't use the word "liberal") dose of LBJ's "Come let us reason together" in Arnold's comments. LBJ liked to find a compromise--but he always carried a very big stick in case you wouldn't "reason together". I'd hate to see the return of someone with Lyndon's effectiveness--if he was pushing Biden's agenda. But you do need energy at the top executive level. Biden's weakness is the only thing that has saved us from total Democrat disaster.
Althouse commenters are, of course, a different breed of cat and have special powers of discernment unavailable to the common run of humanity. And that's a fact.
+1
There is only one reality, created by God.
As humans we may or may not understand our reality. But there's one truth, one set of facts, one reality, and one God.
Understanding what is true is hard, because we're not God.
The interviewer, David Marchese, had asked "what do you make of R.F.K. Jr.’s anti-vax, conspiracist turn?"
He's basically implying that Kennedy is crazy. Lazy and fucking irresponsible journalists have been repeating that slur for years and years.
The Tablet interview with Robert Kennedy Jr. makes clear to me that
1) he's not crazy
2) he loved his dad
3) when he says that Sirhan Sirhan didn't kill his father, he has actual facts to back that up
4) his dad had a head wound from the back, and Sirhan Sirhan tried to shoot him from the front
5) most importantly, the bullets didn't match up with Sirhan Sirhan's gun
6) Bobby Kennedy specifically names the guy he thinks murdered his father
I do not believe Sirhan actually fired the bullets that killed my father...
...the thing that persuaded me, that first persuaded me was Paul Schrade, who was standing beside my father—he was the vice president of the UAW and a very close friend who had discovered Cesar Chavez and introduced him to my father. But he was also shot that night. Five or six years ago, he basically forced me to come over to his house and sit at his kitchen table and read Thomas Noguchi’s autopsy report. And once you read that, it’s impossible to believe that Sirhan had killed my father.
Because Sirhan fired two shots at my father. He had a revolver with eight shots in the chamber. And he fired two shots. One of them hit the door jamb behind my father and was later removed by the police. The other one hit Paul Schrade. And then his gun was turned. He was pounced on by ultimately six people. A big dog pile, who pinned him on a steam table, and forced the gun away from my father.
Rafer Johnson [who helped subdue Sirhan] talks about how this little man, he had superhuman strength. And they could not wrest the gun from his hand. And he fired off six more shots. All of those shots hit people. We know who they hit. One person got hit twice, through his clothing once, but the shots were going away from my father.
According to Noguchi’s autopsy, my father was killed by four shots fired from behind him.
Sirhan never got behind him. Sirhan was in front of him. And those shots were all contact shots. So they left carbon tattoos on his body, which means the barrel of the gun could never not have been more than an inch from his body, and in some cases were clearly touching his body. And they were fired upward, at upward angle, suggesting the person who fired them was holding the gun close to his body and concealing it while firing it upward.
The fatal shot was the one from behind his ear.
Sirhan never got that near. There were 77 eyewitnesses, and everybody placed Sirhan five feet in front of my father.
I might have to start paying money to Tablet, because their journalism is fascinating and I'm not seeing it in other places.
See also...
The Obama Factor
Isn't that German word a synonymy for "spin" ?
“Arnold should have said “Bobby has a different experience.” not “different facts.””
I hadn’t thought about why Bobby, Jr, was such a conspiracy theorist, but his uncle, then father, having been assassinated does make some sense, as does his having been an attorney who spent much of his career suing big companies. The thing is, that sometimes there are conspiracies - such as, for example, the Russian Collusion claims about Trump, or about COVID-19, Etc. When there is smoke, there often is fire. Was his uncle killed by the CIA? His father because he was anti-war? Etc. The installation of FJB as President sure looks like a conspiracy to a lot of us, and esp when followed up by the government instigated J6 “riots” and prosecutions, ignoring all sorts of Constitutional safeguards, as well as the prosecutions by Dems and their govt officials of Trump himself.
"[Gratuitous slur] being quoted ignores the other SARS zoonotic jumps leading to fatal disease in humans twice within just the previous 20 years(!) - "
And both of those were identified within months.
"[Gratuitous slur] being quoted ignores the other SARS zoonotic jumps leading to fatal disease in humans twice within just the previous 20 years(!) - "
And both of those were identified within months.
“And here we already have the first illustration of the problem. The robot being quoted ignores the other SARS zoonotic jumps leading to fatal disease in humans twice within just the previous 20 years(!) - as well as every other pandemic in human history - so that he can indulge his nationalistic hatred of another country, China. A nationalistic hatred which overwhelms the uncertainty about why this circumstantial explanation would be more likely than the unhygienic microbiological orgies between species taking place in wet markets - which incidentally demonstrate equal malfeasance by China.”
Because it almost certainly wasn’t a zoonotic jump this time. Why is it highly unlikely? Start with that SARS-CoV-2 uniquely attaches tightly to HUMAN ACE2 receptors. How did that evolve naturally? As a result of that human affinity, the virus doesn’t jump as easily to other species, as other related viruses. For a mutation to flourish, it needs an evolutionary advantage over its predecessors. It only became an advantage in humans. It’s more infectious in humans, and less so in other animals, because of this special human affinity. Yet, it would have had to be just the opposite to flourish in other animals. Moreover, mutations to adapt to other species, after a zoonotic jump leave genetic detritus. It’s missing here. It’s like an immaculate conception - a completely clean jump (when there was no evolutionary pressure for the mutations before the jump). Also, despite zealous searching, no pre-jump hosts have been found. Instead, by all evidence, the virus appeared immaculately in fall of 2019, almost assuredly in WIV researchers - where they just happened to be doing improvement of function bat virus research, partially funded by the USG, since it couldn’t be done anymore in the US.
There are two competing theories about how the virus was developed in the lab. One is forced evolution, and the other genetic editing. Genetic engineering looks more probable. Partly this is because the edit sites were identified fairly early, and partially because gene editing tends to leave fingerprints, in the codons around those sites. Plus slight changes in nucleobases. And, again, there should have been genetic fingerprints showing the evolution of the unique genetic sequences of the virus. There aren’t any.
As to negligence - that is likely how the virus escaped the lab. Sloppy lab techniques and protocols, that the ChiComs are famous for - not to say that we haven’t had BSL 4 lab leaks in this country, because we apparently have.
"You’re a schmuck for not wearing a mask. Because you are supposed to protect your fellow Americans around you. It's just that simple.”
<
“There is a virus here. It kills people and the only way we prevent it is: get vaccinated, wear masks, do social distancing, washing your hands all the time, and not just to think about, ‘Well my freedom is being kind of disturbed here.’ No, screw your freedom," Schwarzenegger said.
6) Bobby Kennedy specifically names the guy he thinks murdered his father
=========
so Ashli Babbitt precdenet from those times?
Start with that SARS-CoV-2 uniquely attaches tightly to HUMAN ACE2 receptors. How did that evolve naturally?
Same way all things evolve naturally. Through natural selection. Viruses breed quickly and sloppily enough to do this all the time. In the past 3 years that COVID’s existed, it’s also mutated tons of times. Natural selection. What you’re saying sounds more like “intelligent design” and privileges changes suited to targeting humans the same way Ray Comfort privileged bananas as being designed deliberately by a “creator” to fit into a human hand. Were fruits also designed in a lab to ferment into things that “uniquely attach” to the GABA receptors that people enjoy when drinking alcohol? Were poppies deliberately designed in a lab to make the opioids that “uniquely attach” to the receptors that interact with those things in the human brain?
As a result of that human affinity, the virus doesn’t jump as easily to other species, as other related viruses. For a mutation to flourish, it needs an evolutionary advantage over its predecessors. It only became an advantage in humans. It’s more infectious in humans, and less so in other animals, because of this special human affinity. Yet, it would have had to be just the opposite to flourish in other animals. Moreover, mutations to adapt to other species, after a zoonotic jump leave genetic detritus. It’s missing here.
See all of the above, and then some. Lab leaker fanatics/aficionados are basically like intelligent design advocates. They simply have the advantage of “uniquely attaching” themselves “tightly” to theories that are plausible, possible and less esoteric than the creator elevated by intelligent design fans or creationists.
But they still don’t like naturalistic explanations.
In any event, if you’re ok with wet markets I suggest you head out to one of those places with a culture medium and collect all the crazy microbes growing and evolving in the wonderful collection of every manner of body fluids and solids being exchanged in close proximity to each other between all the exotic species caged together that are known for spreading disease. You’ll be amazed at what you find.
Or maybe you won’t. Maybe you’re more like the AIDS activists who also couldn’t believe that a deadly pandemic got its start from a gross combination of bushmeat jumps that got a decade or two of evolutionary practice spreading around in the bathhouses of San Francisco and other places.
But no conservative would say that, because to do so infringes on his prejudice or bias against social eccentricities and his alliance with the theoconservatives who believe that AIDS was a punishment of divine retribution for such behavior. Just as you probably believe that the Chinese can only do us harm by directed, nefarious means and not the simple fact that they have a large, poor, rural population who have not been discouraged against eating and trading in disgusting things.
Darkisland said...
Every breath we take
780,000ppm N2
210,000ppm O2
10,000ppm Argon
400ppm CO2
+trace gases
=======
what are the ### for exhale?
The pro-life movement might be considered a "conspiracy theory."
In 1973 the Supreme Court defined unborn children as non-persons. If this is factual and true, then there are no problems with infanticide. You can't murder a non-person. Ergo, nobody has died.
So the "conspiracy theory" of the pro-life movement is that unborn human children actually are people. And we've killed a lot of babies. And people in the government (and the media) don't want to acknowledge it.
And it's kind of interesting to me that people on the left don't dismiss it as lunacy or crazy or some nutball theory. I've never heard the pro-life movement dismissed as a conspiracy theory.
Probably because too many people believe it's true, including a major political party, a major world religion, many officials in the government, and random people on the internet who have evidence of homicides -- including photographs and graphic descriptions in Supreme Court opinions of homicides.
The New York Times doesn't dismiss the pro-life movement as a "conspiracy theory." They dismiss it as a Republican narrative that doesn't belong in their fine upstanding newspaper that never lies about anything.
Here's an attempt at honesty from some reporters at the New York Times, on their online photography blog.
That's why (I suspect) people on the left don't dismiss the pro-life movement as a "conspiracy theory." They know there is a truth they are suppressing and continue to suppress.
Skepticism is healthy.
Hey we need to accept this rushed out vaccine because the people who illegally funded and built the plague need us to take it and it’s an election year- that’s sick.
Hey we need to move on because it’s Thursday after election day and we can’t have this go on forever (or Friday, whichever comes first)…well, that’s sick.
The media has gotten so bad, the New York Times published a false history where 1776 was done to protect slavery, a history that was so dishonest that actual historians and socialists around the world took issue with it.
NYT publishes a conspiracy theory about the American revolution. So that's my "conspiracy theory," that alleged "journalists" are so obsessed with narratives now, they not only hide facts, they invent new ones that are not true.
Sounds like Arnold is looking for someone like Trump.
" tim in vermont said...
Check out the community notes fact check of our own Secretary of State, this week. Talk about disinformation, not the notes, the lies of our SoS. But remember, whatever the press says is true is the Truth.
https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1707826104759705760"
"Readers added context they thought people might want to know"
Exactly why I like X.
Kate said...
"Arnold is gracious."
The gracious Arnold Schwarzenegger: "No, screw your freedom."
No idea why anyone would listen to the political opinions of someone who believes that. Screw Schwarzenegger
"Rich Said...
It is very disturbing how large numbers believe conspiratorial nonsense without critical analysis."
The irony and lack of self-awareness, make it stop!
Bob wrote: "Facts are recognized or rejected based on whether or not they support the belief system. Part of the reason for this is it's hard to determine if something presented as a fact is objectively true."
These statements are logically incongruous. People intent on confirmation bias are indifferent to "objective truth" inconsistent with their belief systems.
Althouse commenters may or may not have "special powers of discernment." It is likely that we are exposed to a wider array of information. For example, Althouse frequently exposes us to the latest from the leftmedia and conservative newsblogs provide alternative views.
The facts are the same, the vantage point is different.
Arnold also said" screw your freedom" referring to people who opted not to get the jab.
Only a fool trusts the "government" after all the revelations of nefarious activities and the corrupt use of power.
This is a favorite technique of trashing public persons, and we're seeing a lot of it now being directed at RFKJr. The imperfect articulation by 'De Ah-noad' about 'facts', this is being re-cast as if RFKJr believes himself to be living under a different set of physical principles, as if he's defying gravity and eschewing oxygen, or living amongst us in alternate reality, some such bullsh*t.
He's an erratic crank, in other words, not to be trusted. But what if (for example) you had 5 close family members and also 10 neighbors die from some swiftly-progressing, un-treatable brain cancer, would your views on your prospects of a cancer-free life be a little different, from most? Of course they would. It would be normal human behavioral response, based on your direct experience. There. That wasn't so hard, was it?
The point about RFKJr's experience going after Big Pharma, as shaping his perceptions about that industry, is precisely right. He has a different set of 'facts' than you do, impinging on his real life experience and banging the gongs in his memory.
'F*cking grow up!', people, I want to yell. Reject these chattering knaves, run these boobs from your life. Don't let their 'facts' bang your gongs.
There's real concern about those vaccine's contents.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/09/scientists-shocked-and-alarmed-at-whats-in-the-mrna-shots/
How about eating mRNA?
https://elizabethnickson.substack.com/p/feeling-helpless
RFK Jr hanging out with Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn, and Roger Stone doesn’t seem like the best way to attract Democratic voters. Kennedy’s constituency is the party of crackpots and nut cases. Anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist and serial liar — RFK, Jr. will do well among Team MAGA.
"If you put them on the lie detector, I can guarantee you it’ll be a different story."
Well, if some lying shit-weasel from the NYT is willing to guarantee it, then I guess that's a fact. The NYT trades in facts right?
"It is very disturbing how large numbers believe conspiratorial nonsense without critical analysis. And RFK Jr is just nuts."
You have, of course, read his book. Right, Rich? The one about Tony Fauci? You read it, cover to cover? Including the many, many pages of notes and citations?
RFK Jr hanging out with Steve Bannon, yaddah, yaddah...
Rich and his master whistle past the graveyard.
"Because here’s a guy who has had an uncle assassinated, a father assassinated. No one wants to open up the files. So you must say to yourself, What is the reason for that? You start not trusting governments. I don’t live with this kind of suspicion, because nothing ever happened to me that makes me feel like that."
I'm not following Arnold here. What is the logic? Bobby Kennedy's uncle and brother were assassinated, and the government is covering it up, so Bobby can't trust them. But I can.
Narayan an asked about the composition of air we exhale. I'd never thought much about it but a truly great question. According to the Book of Knowledge :
Inhaled air is by volume 78% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen and small amounts of other gases including argon, carbon dioxide, neon, helium, and hydrogen.[16]
5.0–6.3% water vapor
79% nitrogen [18]
13.6–16.0% oxygen
4.0–5.3% carbon dioxide
1% argon
So about 100 times as much co2 going out as coming in. I had no idea it was that much. I knew rebreathimg co2 with a mask was a problem but now it looks like much more of a problem than I had suspected.
John Henry
Some key information about jfk/rfk assassinations is still being hidden by federal govt from the public. "hidden" is the appropriate word here regardless of reason. Hidden despite law passed by house and signed by President requiring that it be made public.
Bush, Obama, trump & Brandon have all refused to follow the law?
What are they hiding?
How can one NOT believe in conspiracy theories in light of this?
John Henry
Get your 8th ineffective and unsafe covid booster. Fauci and big pharma-D need the $$$$.
oh - wait .hahahahaha
Never Forget your leftwing Nazi Overlords - they speak in creepy unison. Obey.
The left-Nazis use language like "anti-vax" - when the normal do not want an 9th jab that does nothing to stop the virus- and is filled with ???? oh wait I mean $$$$$$. dirty.
Meanwhile, I have no idea what he's talking about. I get no racist vibes off of Trump. He talks shit about everybody.
Hahaha, I got this far in the comments and had to stop - this is exactly what I get from Trump.
Arnold the adulterer said, "Screw your freedom".
Screw him and always mock the NYTimes.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
After five decades of a science-based career, I can say that facts are susceptible arbiters of truth. In this sense, the totality of the available facts is never as clear as the conclusions made by selective fact choice. If you put all the facts on the table, it can just lead to confusion. You have to weigh all the facts and use your judgement to find direction. Theoretically, when confronted by an alternate fact in the system, you can explain why that fact was discounted. Current practice is just to yell (your point here) Denier.
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