That's the top-rated comment — from someone named Paula — on the NYT article, "Are Men Obsessed With the Roman Empire? Yes, Say Men. Women are asking the men in their lives how often they think about ancient Rome. Their responses, posted online, can be startling in their frequency."
How do you characterize stupidity? When a shortstop comes up with a really bonehead play or an economist with a crackbrained scheme, what is it that you say he does not know?
Beans. According to Prof. Frederic G. Cassidy, the world's foremost dialexicographer... when his interviewers ask ''To show stupidity, you say, 'He doesn't know ______''' the word most often given to fill in the blank by Americans of every region was beans.
Some variations on this emphatic use of the bean employ the preposition from, as in ''He doesn't know split beans from coffee.'' These unable-to-differentiate derisions include the alliterative beans from barley, beans from baloney, beans from buttons, beans from bats, beans from apple butter and beans from bullfrogs. In the North, he doesn't know beans when the bag's open, while Southerners are more inclined to say beans with the sack open....
And let me just add that I understand Paula's derision, but having watched about L or C of those TikToks, I don't think the men are thinking about "Marvel movies and other pop culture fluff." They sound as though they've read about history and things in modern life remind the of what they've learned about Rome. The topic most often mentioned is aqueducts. And they are concerned about how empires fall.
The women in the videos, by contrast, seem surprised that someone would go through life noticing the connection between life today and what happened in the distant past. They are openly laughing at someone's interest in history. Often their man becomes quite serious and attempts to explain the importance of history to the woman... to no avail.
Here's one clip that especially interested me:
Here's a big compilation:@jmcgehee5 That took an unexpected turn. @Rick #romanempire #couplehumors ♬ original sound - Jerrica McGehee
And here's Ben Shapiro:@ambarrail This trend is incredible. Some of the best ones #romanempire #romanempirecompilation ♬ original sound - ambarrai
@real.benshapiro #romanempire #romanempiretrend #benshapiro ♬ original sound - Ben Shapiro
Posts
100 comments:
Classic. Notice the inevitable contemporary female contempt for men. Once they find out that men actually think about this she says no they don’t, they just have a stupid, childish cartoon image that they’re really thinking about. This of course is based on nothing at all. There is a huge body of podcasts and video histories available online. You can listen to it in your car while you’re driving around during the day. There are complex games that involve the history of vampires including the Romans. There are audiobooks that are available now that people listen to. What women should be learning from this is that men don’t share their inner lives in the things they really care about with the women in their lives because they simply don’t need to be put down and insulted for it. So, yeah, that guy in a hoodie who lives in his Mom’s basement may very well have been listening to a 30 one hour lecture series on the fall of the Roman Republic. The fact that massive amounts of extremely high-quality free information is available now has penetrated the world of men, but not women. Funny how that works isn’t it? Except all the data shows that men care about things, and how things work, and women care about relationships. History will always be a more mail focused area of interest. That this is invisible to women should not be surprising.
“Obsessed?” Now do the people who talk nonstop about racism. Or people who think about, say, shoes more than once a day or ask “how does this look on me” at least once a day. Oh? You can’t go there? Why not? Because your Chinese algorithm didn’t force you to question it?
Til-Tok. “Women and minorities hardest hit.”
Next Tie Tok trend:How often do Democrats think about hating Republicans?
It's a buyers market for men who think of Rome. They don't have to think of Paulas...
I suspect Paula knows nothing about the Roman Empire other than what she may have seen on the BBC, which cast it as a multicultural paradise. It was not that.
Of course, if these young women knew a thing or two about ancient Rome they'd know that the Romans had no issues with tossing sickly or surplus infants out into the wilderness to die. Then it would be a good thing and they'd use it as a argument for abortion, but we don't see that, do we?
Women telling men how to think isn’t new—-it’s boring.
The NYT comment section is the left-wing version of Breitbart with its stereotype-driven backslapping. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
So, it's OK to tell your husband that you're not recording him, but then actually record him and put it online? That's the sort of thing that brought down the Roman Empire.
Boy that top-rated comment is dumb. Does she not realize that all pro sports except baseball (see the late great George Carlin for details) are exactly ritualized combat, civilized battles, held in stadiums? I think they just don’t like how men vote for issues other than abortion.
That comment and its support says an awful lot about the state of NYT readership these days
The question is, did Ben Shapiro have that answer prepared because he knew about and had thought about the TikTok meme, or did he give that nerdical answer off the cuff? Either one is very possible...
Watched the TikToks. Now I'm thinking about how often people pronounce the "t" in often.
I think about the Roman Empire a lot more than I think about the Mongol Empire. In terms of geographic extent and killing a lot of people, the Mongol Empire was the greatest in world history. It doesn't seem that the Mongols left much of an impression on the peoples they conquered. They rather became more like those people than the other way around. Not so with the Romans. I was raised as a Catholic so to some extent I myself am a Roman....I liked Ben Shapiro's idiosyncratic answer. It's important that we don't repeat the mistakes of the Assyrian Empire and fall back into that mode of thought. It's good that we have watchdogs like Ben alert to that danger.
These women strike me is clueless. I don't think about the Roman empire as much as I think about World War II but I think about it.
"If this many men were thinking about the Roman Empire every day, they would not be voting for Republicans..."
A new kind of logic? The kind Aristotle didn't cover?
"... who are working hard to cause the collapse of the American Empire."
You mean, like, opening the border? Devastating energy supplies? Letting crime flourish? Bringing back piracy? Imprisoning opponents? That kind of collapse?
"They're thinking about Rome as depicted in Marvel movies . . . They think the NLF [sic] are gladiators and so"
They, they, they. Say women who until a minute ago had no clue about what men, many men, were even thinking about in the first place.
"expressing amazement at the answer"
But not yet amazed at their own amazement.
"They sound as though they've read about history and things in modern life remind the of what they've learned about Rome."
Right. It's all around, including in the language (from the Latin etc. etc.).
"The women in the videos, by contrast, seem surprised that someone would go through life noticing the connection between life today and what happened in the distant past."
We know most women don't give a damn, and don't give a damn that they don't give a damn. Their surprise is no surprise. Their lack of surprise at their own surprise still is a bit surprising
"They are openly laughing at someone's interest in history."
Suffering under the patriarchy, yet perfectly safe and comfortable laughing at the patriarchs. What are we men to think of their prideful derision at what seems like an essential part of understanding the world? (Not saying all men are correct in their actual thoughts on actual history, of course, or that "all women" lack historical consciousness, and in fact some of the great historians of Rome are women etc. etc.)
Gentlemen! Once you're done with Mike Duncan on Rome, move on to Robin Pierson on the History of Byzantium--a couple hundred more episodes. Which raises the question: what do men thinking about the Roman Empire mean by Roman Empire? For centuries the empire wasn't yet an empire, and for centuries it wasn't very roman-roman, you know what I mean.
"The Romans, where are they now?"
Should've been watching the Barbie movie.
I have 2 sons - both in their 20s - and this is totally normal IMO. Also, like Ben Shapiro, they think about all the other empires as well. And discuss them, watch YouTube videos about them, read about them - it's really a thing. We've gone from toddlers in the car and when we see a cement mixer they're all "oooo, look, a cement mixer!" to passing a cement mixer and one of them says "you know a really interesting thing about the difference between our cement and Roman cement?" and proceeds to speak for 10-15 minutes. This has been the way it is since they were in middle school. I don't see it ending any time soon.
Maybe my kids are weird (they are) - my younger kid is minoring in Latin, after all. But it all seems fine to me.
I wonder what Paula knows of history beyond the pop culture stuff.
''To show stupidity, you say, 'He doesn't know yyyyy,' '' the word most often given to fill in the blank by Americans of every region was beans.“
Very unlikely, the right answer is sh*t. No one says beans unless they are not allowed to say sh*t.
Something tells me "Paula" wasn't at the AOC and Nadler press conference yesterday screaming about the literal barbarians invading NYC. Call it a hunch.
It would be ridiculous to point out that Rome had acquired nearly the entire circuit of the Mediterranean coastline while the Republic at least nominally existed and functioned.
I don’t understand why the “stupid” tag is here.
I read the tag like a sentence from a judge and less like a discussion prompt.
But, that’s just me. I don’t know much about the Roman Empire.
I noticed once I type Roman the first letter automatically capitalises and the same with empire when it’s followed by Roman.
It would be Interesting to ask chatgpt to list how many words or names trigger that outcome. Autocapitalisation.
As for my answer, I probably think about it unconsciously. As in, ‘there’s got to be a better way to do this…’ did the Romans think that way? I also follow stoic principles daily. I believe stoicism is a Roman thing. I could be wrong.
Then ‘Paula’ needs to take a tip from Cullen Murphy. It’s always worth knowing what Cullen Murphy is thinking about.
The Brain of a Man Who Is Always Thinking About Ancient Rome
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/09/men-think-about-roman-empire-tiktok-trend/675341/
Well, there you go. If I were a kid in school, they’d tell me I identify as a man. I think about the Roman Empire quite a bit. A couple of years ago I drove from NE WI to NYC by myself. The History of Rome podcast kept me company. Listened less on the ride back because my husband was with me, and he wasn’t as interested. I think about the wealth and decadence that helped it fall and wonder if that’s just the way of humanity. I’m in a women’s Bible study…you can’t help but talk about Rome.
Why are women into this “gotcha” meme with their husbands?
How about some simple empirical work to give us a benchmark as to how often it is reasonable to think about the Roman Empire?
How many articles in the NYT mention the Roman Empire in an average week?
I think the Republican (or, at least, the populist) argument is that the Roman Empire was overwhelmed by illegal immigration and high taxes and heavy economic regulation impoverished the population.
Boris Johnson -- "When the Roman Empire fell, it was largely as a result of uncontrolled immigration."
Interesting confirmation of why NYT skews the news as it does. The top-rated comment is from someone who confirms the biases of NYT readers that Republican men are of course ignorant of history; that they've never, for instance, read Gibbon.
Democrats/liberals, however (as NYT readers know), are well-informed --and THAT'S both cause and effect of being NYT readers. Fox news viewers, believe Commodus was a Democrat and Maximus a Republican, which every Democrat/NYT reader knows is LOL.
The Daily Stoic Journal has 29,804 Amazon global ratings. Not too shabby.
The daily stoic online claims over 300,000 subscribers.
Joe Rogan talks about the Romans. I couldn’t tell you how often but he does.
One of the better books of the New Testament: Romans.
This trend is saying something I look forward to rh comments.
There is the deep similarity in the writing style of the "right wing" people who write a lot about the "socio-sexual hierarchy," etc. (we could call them "Chads") and the Paula's of the internet (and "Paulas" should become a Type, like "Karens").
There's something somewhat admirable in how confidently they assert things and their avoidance of of weasel-words, "on the one hand on the other hand" constructions, and repeating "I think," or "it seems to me." This is one reason they are influential online.
But on the other hand* if you read enough by these and similar people you discover that they are just as confident and assertive about things that are really debatable propositions, and then you find that they're just as confident and assertive about things that nobody can possibly know.
I think there is a distinction between Paulas and Chads, though. Paulas are always in complete harmony with our corrupt and dishonest over-culture, in which ever malleable "political truths" trump mere physical or historical truth, so there's something very refreshing about people who forthrightly speak forbidden truths, which is why it's much more enjoyable to read Chads than Paulas.
But it does seem as if both the Chads and the Paulas of the internet can't understand (or refuse to acknowledge) the difference between brute facts of the world (which do not change no matter who speaks them or what 'implications' they might have), legitimately debatable propositions based on values (which can vary greatly from person to person and group to group and so MUST be debated and discussed, if only for the purposes of comprehension), and metaphysical assertions about which the only answers can ever be competing dogmas (i.e., to assert that God is triune or unitary, or modal, or whatever merely announces that you belong to a certain sect). Chads and Paulas don't appear to recognize that there are separate categories: EVERYTHING is an utterly confident assertion, and after a while that gets old.
*Yes, deliberate. Though it's certain a trap (into which many academics often fall) to be mealy-mouthed and equivocating, there are also many "on the one hand... on the other hand" situations and problems.
The timing of these blog posts about Rome is really weird.
I just recently finished reading "The Storm Before The Storm, The Beginning Of The End Of The Roman Republic" by Mike Duncan, and am currently about half way through "The Spartacus War" by Barry Strauss after which I will be reading "The War That Made The Roman Empire" by Barry Strauss.
All 3 I checked out from the library within the last few weeks.
"'What utter nonsense. If this many men were thinking about the Roman Empire every day, they would not be voting for Republicans...'
"... who are working hard to cause the collapse of the American Empire."
The American Empire will collapse of its own weight and over extension, as all past empires have done. Both parties are and will be complicit in the collapse.
Not as often as I think about the TikTok Empire.
I consider whether we are in the end of Republic rather than the end of Empire. Both are rocky, but one is significantly worse.
Maybe if trans-women thought about the Roman Empire they would fare better?
It’s a thought. I’m just massaging it. Don’t kill the masseuse.
"I don’t understand why the “stupid” tag is here."
It's there because of the "don't know beans" idiom, which is used ''To show stupidity." That is, the topic of stupidity is under discussion.
A once great civilization falls to an invasion of Barbarians. Who says it won't happen again?
I had a Jesuit teacher in HS who would say, “You don’t know the difference between an oboe and a bassoon.”
Sorry about 'He doesn't know yyyyy.'
That was copied from the NYT website, but I clicked through to the image of the text as it appeared originally, and it's "'He doesn't know ______''
Corrected in the post.
Paula sounds like she has an inferiority complex. I find it hard to come up with a reasonable explanation of how men thinking about the Roman Empire, and perhaps learning a few facts about it online could make the men who do that dumber.
I wonder if the article mentions Cornel West who calls for the dismantling of the American empire right in his platform. The anti-empire rhetoric I've heard over the years is all from the left. They'd rejoice at the collapse of the American empire. (I expect such a collapse, only I hope it happens after I die.)
The guy in the first video reminded me of a Civil War soldier, or at least what I imagine they looked like. And then there was Ben Shapiro himself in his brown sneakers who does know beans about empires.
What I want to know is why women are so obsessed over what men think about. Ladies. You don't want to know what men think about.
For instance. If you're sitting around wondering what we think about then there's something else you should be doing. That mess in the bathroom isn't going to clean itself.
Proves once again that NYT readers are overly credentialed and incredibly ignorant. This is the average NYT reader - ahistorical and proud of it.
Empire building is hyperfeminine.
When I interpret stupidity more like an opinion and less a condition. Too much time at X maybe?
Classic example of women look for things to complain about men about. Typically something that has no actual impact on anything. Kinda like wearing shorts.
Paula said…"... who are working hard to cause the collapse of the American Empire."
Blogger Sebastian responded…"You mean, like, opening the border? Devastating energy supplies? Letting crime flourish? Bringing back piracy? Imprisoning opponents? That kind of collapse?"
Yeah.
Paula doesn't know jack.
I would presume Smug Paula has a Ukrainian flag in her social media bio. If one were to ask her what conflicts in the past are reminiscent of how this war is being fought, and what changes the Ukrainians should undertake based on historical patterns,she wouldn't have a clue. "War history is gross and Marvel dudes are stupid." O.k. then.
Why are women into this “gotcha” meme with their husbands?
The point of the meme is to make women feel good about themselves, by telling themselves that they have to go through the emotional labor of thinking about important things, while men fill their heads with nonsense.
You expect men to think about the Roman Empire.
The Spanish Inquisition, on the other hand...
I know everyone's stuck on Romulus, but I think Remus is the cute one...
No doubt after she wrote her comment, Paula had another glass of Chardonnay and petted her cat.
EAB writes, "I think about the wealth and decadence that helped it fall and wonder if that’s just the way of humanity."
Gibbon wrote eight volumes on the subject and could only identify two factors that helped to engender the fall of the Western empire, and neither were wealth or decadence. Gibbon largely resists the temptation to draw tidy conclusions about such an attenuated phenomenon, though he admits Christianity and apathy as contributing circumstances.
I wonder which sex is more likely to read Sun Tzu. No. I’m pretty sure I know.
"What utter nonsense. If this many men were thinking about the Roman Empire every day, they would not be voting for Republicans, they'd be working hard to cause the collapse of the American Empire."
FIFY
My take away from this is: if you’re a woman of any age, a reasonable body shape, and you want to get married - you’ve got a wide open field. Up your game a little, dress neatly, don’t overdo makeup, develop your own interests that don’t center around yourself, a plus if you learn to cook simple, good tasting meals, another plus if you learn to modulate your voice so it isn’t high pitched and screechy and you can pick and choose your mate. (BYW this also applies if you want a job or a better job than you have now.)
Ave Caesar morituri te salutant!!!
Yea, I bet that dame thinks Republicans shout that all the time... Yea at Trump rallies no less!
What a crock. She is so biased and ignorant.
BTW.. I bet she has no idea how a Roman Legion was ordered nor how they fought battles (hint, it varied over time but they had very sophisticated system.)
Salvēte folks!
Founding fathers more interested in Roman Republic. Founding mothers not so much.
@ Dave Begley
I had a Jesuit teacher in HS who would say, “You don’t know the difference between an oboe and a bassoon.”
Jesuits understand that their criteria includes the requirement:
"Give me someone who reeds."
With a double dose of it for each of those.
When you marry a bassoonist, get used to seeing reeds in your kitchen.
Ask me how I know.
I’m a woman and I think about it a couple of times a week.
In AA, for example, the concept of acceptance is of outmost importance, calling people stupid seems to me to be too harshly dismissive of them. I don’t know. The concept of radical acceptance also means that I am willing to accept that when disturbed the problem is me. Maybe I’m the yyyyy.
Why does the Chinese government want us to start thinking about the Roman Empire?
Not sure how anyone can read or watch the news without thinking "bread and circuses" these days.
The American Empire will collapse of its own weight and over extension [sic] as all past empires have done. Both parties are and will be complicit in the collapse.
The Robert Cook Banality©️ has arrived, like a lampshade worn as a hat at a soiée.
It must be an unhappy existence, to be at once so cynical and so wearisome.
Meanwhile in the real world an armed man was arrested at RFK Jr campaign event in LA, after private security detained him. Why has Biden denied the candidate secret service protection? And yes it would only take one reference (“Et tu Brutus”) to connect this to the topic at hand.
I wonder if the move out of the cities is being influenced by silent reflections on the Roman Empire. Leaving the cities was one response to the slow collapse of Roman authority. And perhaps alternate education, fostering such silent reflections on history, will be studied as a feature of our time when we are history. There are a lot of courses such as Roman history or Beowulf being cut in universities for lack of interest which are immensely popular as online courses or podcasts. It's very noticeable in relation to English literature. I've always wondered what caused that difference.
It’s Women who are really thinking about the Roman Empire because of the abduction of the Sabine women. It’s an approach/avoidance thing.
Lem the Misspeller (9:31am):
Is Stoicism a Roman thing? Yes and no.
On the one hand, it was, like all the other schools of ancient philosophy, invented by Greeks. However, the early Stoics, Zeno of Citium*, Cleanthes, Chrysippus, Posidonius, wrote numerous works, some quite long, but they survive only in fragments. Many of these fragments are collected in Book 7 of Diogenes Laertius' Lives of the Eminent Philosophers. (Title varies, but it's the only surviving work of Diogenes Laertius.)
(*You have say "of Citium" to distinguish him from non-Stoic philosopher Zeno of Elea, best known for "Zeno's paradox" ~ Achilles and the tortoise.)
However, all our complete works of Stoic authors come from the Roman empire:
1. We have hundreds of page of Seneca, murdered by Nero, including 122 Letters on Ethics (recent U Chicago edition is $1.99 on Kindle) and a dozen so-called dialogues (mostly more like monologues) on Brevity of Life, Anger, the Constancy of the Wise Man, and so on. Those are the most-read, but there are other works. University of Chicago Press has recent editions of all of them.
2. A century or so later, Marcus Aurelius left us his Confessions, really his private notebook, jotting down various disjointed but eloquent thoughts. I particularly like Gregory Hays' translation, currently only $13.29 in hardcover at Amazon.
3. Epictetus was a contemporary of M.A., and an ex-slave. Like Socrates, he wrote nothing, but his student Arrian recorded some of his lectures, 100 or so chapters in 4 books usually called Discourses. There's also a selection of short paragraphs, called Enchiridion, which means 'Handbook'. (By the way, Arrian wrote other works, and the very different style he uses in them shows that the Discourses are likely a pretty faithful record of Epictetus' actual words.) The Oxford Worlds Classics edition is probably the most convenient.
4. On a smaller scale, Musonius Rufus left ~20 short lectures, plus a few fragments. All conveniently collected in "That One Should Disdain Hardships: The Teachings of a Roman Stoic", $14 on Amazon.
By the way, the last three all wrote in Greek, not Latin, though only Epictetus was an actual Greek. Upper-class Romans used Greek the same way upper-class Englishmen used French in the 18th century.
Of course, there are also dozens of introductions to Stoicism by John Sellars and others, but if you want to read the actual Stoics, these are what is available.
Paula, you ignorant slut!
"And let me just add that I understand Paula's derision,"
Really? The starting point of Paula's derision is the notion that "that many men" -- presumably, 30% or more -- could not possibly have the ability to read about the Roman Empire.
I'll tell you, I think most women are dumb as rocks, by inclination, on most subjects of interest to me. But I don't imagine that the majority of them are incapable of learning about something they find interesting.
Did anyone tell the woman that men today think of the Roman Empire the way they used to think of baseball during sex?
Me, I just continue to be amazed by that Roman soldier with a wristwatch. They were so technologically advanced!
"They’re peddlers and they’re meddlers, they buy and they sell
They destroyed your city, they’ll destroy you as well
They’re lecherous and treacherous, hell bent for leather
Each of them bigger than all men put together
Sluggers and muggers wearing fancy gold rings
All the women going crazy for the early Roman Kings"
Wow, are these women ignorant. (But then, so is the barefoot redneck who thought Rome was the largest). And it totally justifies women being marginalized in history if they have absolutely no interest in the empire most influential to our own - not just in terms of engineering but in every church. At least twice a year during major Christian holidays Rome plays a significant role.
And of course I’m sure any one of these useless, shallow flakes would love an all-expenses paid vacation to see all the glamor of a city that only one with as powerful a history as Rome could become.
This doesn’t even begin to touch upon the incredible drama behind its downfall - of Julius Caesar and Mark Antony and… and Cleopatra! I’m sure if you told them a new cosmetic line was being rolled out based on Cleopatra they would be interested. At that point is when things start to touch on their shallow Tik Tok trendy feminine interests.
Mary Beard has a lot of work to do. I can’t remember a single woman I dated when the HBO Rome series aired who didn’t like it then, or now - assuming we’ve discussed it. I guess I’m luckier to have less idiotic female acquaintances pulled from the snickering, shallow, videotaped ambush gossip cliques. What the hell are these losers’ interests? Hair and makeup and nails? And not one of their boyfriends had the brains to point THAT out?
What trash.
He doesn't know whether he's punched or bored.
When I was a young guy working in the woods, my boss used that phrase. I only heard it once and I don't ever seem to use it myself, but for some reason I've never forgotten it.
In case somebody doesn't understand the terms, punching and boring are 2 common ways holes are made in metal.
I see Mike Duncan mentioned above. His History of Rome podcast that ended like 10 years ago is still highly influential. Also one of the actors of the Rome TV show just died. Plus Gladiator II news.
But the real reason this is news is because of memes. It's a another 4chan type joke that slipped into the mainstream.
By chance would the similar logic dictate that men are more religious because they ask God to condemn people and things and utter "God" and Jesus Christ" more than other gender(s)?
Crack wrote:
"These women strike me is clueless. I don't think about the Roman empire as much as I think about World War II but I think about it."
I wonder what the women's reaction would be to the men's answer about how often do they think about World War II. Like Crack, I certainly think about that more than the Roman Empire- definitely more than one or two times a day, and multiple times a day since the Ukraine fiasco got started. I suspect that most men who do think a lot about the Roman Empire think about WW II even more often (spoken in my head enunciating the "t", Mary Beth).
"I would presume Smug Paula has a Ukrainian flag in her social media bio."
This is a good test.
Anyone with a Ukraine flag in their social media feeds is an idiot and not to be taken seriously.*
*Unless you are actually Ukrainian
The Robert Cook Banality… is at least as worth noting as the Quaestor conservative conceit: This nonsense that only things someone finds exciting or interesting are important or true. Some of the most important things in the world are ordinary. That’s why “information” and “entertainment” are two different things, and entertainment is no more economically important than keeping track of all the other kinds of information. It’s certainly no truer, either.
Your need for excitement and drama is misplaced. And Cook is right. The US focuses more on being everywhere in the world and influencing more external events than on building a country at home that can keep its own people alive, healthy and not constantly on the verge of violent overthrow. The right-wing failure to secure justice while it wages its war against domestic tranquility and the general welfare is what causes much of the same instability in the world that worsens life for Americans.
Critter said...
No doubt after she wrote her comment, Paula had another glass of Chardonnay and petted her cat.
--
Then she opened up the Daily Mail to read with envy about how toned Kim Kardashian's abs are, and how perky the breasts of her sister.
“Maybe my kids are weird (they are) - my younger kid is minoring in Latin, after all. But it all seems fine to me.”
Nah, it’s been the same with my sons. For many of the same reasons and influences noted in the other thread. William’s Augustus, I Claudius, HBO’s Rome, and the occasional contest to see who could name the most Roman emperors in order of succession. Roman coins in recognizable condition were fairly common and inexpensive in eBay’s early days. Possessing and discussing those did a lot to fire their interest in Rome when they were children.
And, yeah, Greece. Once Dan Carlin unleashed Herodotus on them, that became an interest as well.
"This doesn’t even begin to touch upon the incredible drama behind its downfall - of Julius Caesar and Mark Antony and… and Cleopatra!"
Oh Hpudding, it's much much deeper. A woman - whose name we know - was actually intricately involved in the very end of the Western Empire, Justa Grata Honoria. Here's the crib notes of her story!
> Be born-to-purple elite Roman noblewoman from prominent family
> Your brother is the actual Emperor
> Have legendary promiscuity that puts even Julia the Elder to shame
> Use your sexuality and promiscuity to advance your personal interests
> Your gens finally have enough of this and order you to go to a convent
> Bring you back after you agree to “honor your duties to the Valentinianic Dynasty”
> Honoring your duties turns out to be marrying a Senator…what a tearjerker!
> “Oh hell nah I’m not marrying some crinkled orator!” – You
> Write letter to Attila the Hun complete with ring asking for barbarian assistance
> Letter pledges either your love for barbarian OR barbarian interprets it that way
> That Hun that makes you tingle intends to “claim what’s rightfully his”, to include half of Western Empire as dowry
> Your barbarian-beau decides to invade to rescue you, but also pretext for territorial expansion
> You flee your Scourge O’ God boyfriend’s army with your family and die in obscurity married to someone who isn’t a senator and isn’t Attila, unencumbered by the consequences of your actions
> John of Antioch writes of you, “And so Honoria was freed from her danger at this time”…congratulations!
> Your selfishness and rebellion is the tiny snowball-turned-avalanche that starts the physical disintegration of 1000 years of stability, wealth, and power in the Western hemisphere
> The West will not recover for 1000 more years and history conveniently forgets about you and your role in the Fall of Rome
> And then everyone clapped. The end.
"How do you NOT think about the Roman empire?"
"They sound as though they've read about history and things in modern life remind the[m] of what they've learned about Rome."
Progressivism is inherently opposed to argument by analogy/distinction. Yesterday's thinking is always outmoded. Precedent is just an occasionally useful tactic.
Ladies! Pro-tip: if you want your man to open up emotionally, ask him how he feels about the Roman Empire.
It's a little odd to see history asserting itself this way, whether we want it to, or not. We don't have Roman history on the American continent, but if you've ever been to North Africa or Europe, the chances are you've walked on it. For instance:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2963481,10.7078975,292m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
In the middle of Tunisia. Or, as another commenter noted, any city along the Danube. Or in the southern UK. The Roman Republic was around for a long time, the Roman Empire quite a bit less, but 2,000 years later it's still providing a layer of foundation for our modern culture, and quite a few literal foundations for its buildings and roads. One thing that really repeats itself is the motif of indifferent cruelty that was inflicted on its lesser subjects, and the absolute barbarity of its indulgences. The legacy of these extremes of culture seem to match the durability of their infrastructure, in our modern times. It's no wonder guys reflect on it often, just like they do the World Wars. These are defining events in consciousness when you're in line, prospectively, to die defending your own present-day empire.
He doesn't know beans. Which is why he puts them in his ears.
We know the next trend is going to be,
"I asked my husband/bf how often he thought about the Roman Empire and now he won't stop talking to me about the Roman Empire. Help!"
"A once great civilization falls to an invasion of Barbarians. Who says it won't happen again?"
Ah, yes those Germanic tribes which brought with them, the wittan(legislature of elders), more equality between the sexes, etc.
Not to mention, some tough old broads
“…a whole band of foreigners will be unable to cope with one [Gaul] in a fight, if he calls in his wife, stronger than he by far and with flashing eyes; least of all when she swells her neck and gnashes her teeth, and poising her huge white arms, begins to rain blows mingled with kicks, like shots discharged by the twisted cords of a catapult”
--Ammianus Marcellinus
Caesar reports, that in Brittany some women shared several husbands among each other. When rebuked by the Empress Julia Augusta because of her loose morals, the wife of the Caledonic Prince Argentocoxus answered:
"We fulfill the necessity of nature much better than Roman women do, for we have intercourse openly with the best, whereas you are abused secretly by the least!"
I won't dare challenge hpudding on the ordinariness of his opinions.
I've always thought more about Alexander the Great (I kind of had a crush on him when I was about 14), but honestly I haven't been thinking about him and his short-lived empire nearly as much lately as I used to. Instead I've been thinking about whether secular humanism is a religion and about Pascal's wager and about analogies for consciousness and whether they're at all useful in trying to discern what and where it is.
But now - as Crack points out, how can I not think about the Roman Empire?
...doesn't know sh*t from Shinola.
...doesn't know sh*t.
...doesn't know Jack sh*t.
...doesn't know Jack.
Beans is what we said in the fifties when I was in grammar school.
A romantic or wary association?
Ha! So THIS is why Ms. Bar asked me this question, on our long drive back from the west Coast last week! My honest answer was, at least once a week. She was not surprised that I took interest in these things. Please do not ask me about the development of aircraft armament. So much to talk about......
Is NYT convinced? Surely, they are under the influence of a disinformational dichotomy.
Men, women, and our Posterity are from Earth. Feminists are from Venus. Maculinists are from Mars. Social Progressive are from Uranus. Earthlings try to mitigate the abortive, toxic, and dysfunctional actions, respectively, of the latter in Rome, Greece, America, etc.
Say Timmy, do you like movies about gladiators?
So sweaty warriors in armor and skirts, the early history of western civilization or the decline of enlightened (relatively) cultures.
If the woman gets a number (Three times a day, sweets.), what can she learn.
Robert Cook said...
"The American Empire will collapse of its own weight and over extension, as all past empires have done. Both parties are and will be complicit in the collapse."
Nope. If it collapses, it will be due to Cloward-Piven strategy. I am praying imprecatory prayers against the people driving the strategy. Scoff if you like, but I have kids and grandkids who stand to lose big if it should succeed.
Ben Shapiro is smarter than Cliff Claven, but when you boil it down, he's Cliff Claven.
This one is LOL:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1703150739059794044
"Ben Shapiro is smarter than Cliff Claven, but when you boil it down, he's Cliff Claven."
The jury is still out on the claim that Shapiro is smarter than Cliff Claven.
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