September 6, 2023
"As for Jan. 6 itself, it was a 'national embarrassment,' [Enrique] Tarrio said, adding, 'I am not a political zealot.'"
"Some of the other Proud Boys sentenced so far were similarly contrite in their remarks to Judge Kelly — only to reverse themselves outside the judge’s presence. Last week, not long after telling the judge that he was 'a changed and humbled man,' [Dominic] Pezzola raised his fist as he was being led from the courtroom and shouted with a smile, 'Trump won!'
Days after weeping at his own sentencing, [Joseph] Biggs called into a vigil being held outside the municipal jail in Washington that houses several Jan. 6 defendants, describing his punishment as 'insane' and declaring, 'We gotta stand up and fight — don’t give up.'
In an interview with his former boss, the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, Mr. Biggs also said he expected that Mr. Trump, if re-elected, would pardon him...."
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110 comments:
Our government can learn some things from Stalin. It's necessary to not just arrest the persons who actually participated on 1/6. It's also necessary to arrest some of their family members or loved ones as co-conspirators. Only in that way can we be assured that the participants will remain truly contrite after sentencing at the show trial. Surely these participants had family members who fed them or loved ones who showed them some affection prior to 1/6. It's not too far fetched to charge these people with entering into a conspiracy with the participant. Only in this way can justice be done and be seen to be done.
The January 6th prosecutions are a case study in how to get around the Constitutional prohibition against Bills of Attainder. I blame Donald Trump for not realizing that he and his supporters were being set up — they had to be just about the only people in DC who didn’t see it coming.
Where is the part where his actions are detailed?
“January 6th” is a date in a calendar, not a crime.
And he wasn't even there.
So they gave the most severe penalty to the black Cuban man who was claimed to have led a white nationalist seditious uprising.
Am I getting this right ?
I wonder if the Proud Boys who were asked publicly, by Trump at his debate with President Biden, to “stand up and stand by” are now pondering their support as they begin their long prison sentences.
They tearfully pled for leniency. How pathetic. It just proves that bullies are cowards when it comes down to it. And everyone else who has gone to prison for their actions on that day, I imagine they too are doing a lot of pondering now they have criminal records.
Re: Not to make Trump accountable for his attack on the peaceful transfer of power, or to leave that to the voters?
The justice system is doing precisely this. The January 6 trial in the federal district court seems to do exactly what is required. If Trump is convicted and the conviction upheld on appeal, that would be a judicial finding of fact the would invoke Article 3. If the trial starts early March, judgment will be rendered early April and the appeals court and Supreme Court can rule by end of June. Game, set, match.
The conviction will rest on a finding of fact by the jury; those convictions are hard to overturn on appeal. Trump's defense lawyers face two big challenges. First, to try to get hung juries by introducing doubt about the obvious (you need one juror to misread the facts). Second, to establish plausible issues that are appealable. The appeal can only be heard if the higher courts see some merit in the argument. Maybe simple notoriety will be enough to get to the appeals court, maybe not.
So a big question to ask one's self as the trial(s) unfold is -- where is the credible appealable issue here? One might add that special prosecutor Jack Smith has already asked that question and moved to minimize this line of attack.
This is a big case. But it is also a simple one. Once again Jack Smith is already there (and presumably Merrick Garland).
Politically, the Republicans are betting their entire political party on Trump next year. This is unlikely to work out. The future of the party will be with the now unseen and unheard non-Trumpers.
So he hasn't had his "I *love* big brother" moment yet.
Well...it's not like they rioted in one of our major cities, burning down entire blocks of buildings and killing people. I mean...these guys had bad thoughts!
There’s a fight on twitter right now about whether Trump should be faulted for not issuing a blanket pardon before he left office. It seems to be the latest tactic by DeSantis supporters to damage Trump. Whatever the outcome of that, pardoning/commuting sentences should be on the platform of every Republican candidate.
If only they had been government bureaucrats using their power to resist Trump as the duly elected President, then they would be called heroes, because what matters isn't principle but whether the President has a R or a D after their name.
Where’s Amnesty International when you need ‘em?
Capitol attack" (NYT).
========
how does *American* 'English' compute? does string mean >>>
attack on Capitol by rioters or
attack by Capitol on visitors e/g/ Ashli Babbitt
When Trump is wrongly convicted by the DC jury, how much time will that judge give him?
The coverage of these sentences doesn't seem to mention serious specific actual or planned violence, or realistic significant harm to our constitutional order. There must be something like that for which these guys are guilty, or these sentences seem disproportionate. Other comments will answer this, I expect.
But our prisons are pretty underused in this decarcerated era, so let's start filling them with political prisoners. Where are Proud Boys going to go for political asylum, anyway? The US was their last best hope.
It is “insane” considering he was not there and the other circumstances. This nutty judge actually reprimanded a defense attorney for comparing J6 to the violent riot the day Trump was inaugurated and the months long 2020 riots. That jury selection for this trial was held at the same time the J6 Committee was denouncing Tarrio et al in televised hearings is also problematic. These trials should have been moved to a different venue. These guys might end up doing more time than the Puerto Rican terrorists that made an armed raid on the Capitol.
Remember Clinton pardoned them. That was back when Democrats had a soft spot for armed resistance.
his attack on the peaceful transfer of power
Do you mean the attack in which Trump urged people at a rally to "peacefully and patriotically protest" on January 6? Or the attack in which he walked out of the White House on January 20 under no duress so his successor could walk in?
Which one? Or was there another attack that I somehow missed?
That'll learn em to peacably assemble.
Next time, kids, burn it down and take scalps. That way you'll earn theose years in prison.
Kevin asked: "Where is the part where his actions are detailed?"
There were no actions. Guy wasn't even in Washington, DC on J6.
According to the NYT: "Judge Kelly’s rulings allowed prosecutors to introduce damning evidence about the violent behavior and aggressive language of members of the Proud Boys who had only limited connections to the five defendants. The rulings also permitted jurors to convict on conspiracy even if they found there was no plan to disrupt the certification of the election, but merely an unspoken agreement to do so."
Read that again! An "unspoken agreeement" was somehow detected. This "evidence" was then used to convict them of a conspiracy.
These guys weren't even connected to the Proud Boys and weren't members. This one never even attended the J6 demonstration. Prosecutors never even attempted to prove he was there.
You people need to stop thinking and acting like you live in a free country. You don't. You live in Nazi, Germany. 1940. John Gill is your President. And he's operating literal gulags where innocent people are being imprisoned and thus tortured.
Fundamentally changing America
Murderers let go
Joe and his family stealing millions. No biggie.
Do you see?
Do you see?
So wait, Trump is guilty of incitement for asking his supporters to storm the Capital during his January 6th speech, but Tarrio (who was arrested several days prior and was thus not in D.C. on the 6th) was the "ultimate ringleader" of a plot that (assuming he was correctly found guilty) necessarily was put into action days before Trump's speech?
And he wasn't even there
@wendybar, there is precedent. One of the four men hanged for the Haymarket Massacre was nowhere near Chicago and could not possibly have had any connection to the making or detonation of the bomb.
January 6 may have been a national embarrassment, but any shame from that event pales in comparison to the national disgrace of the January 6 committee and the zealous political persecution of a ragtag bunch of losers.
There’s a fight on twitter right now about whether Trump should be faulted for not issuing a blanket pardon before he left office. It seems to be the latest tactic by DeSantis supporters to damage Trump. Whatever the outcome of that, pardoning/commuting sentences should be on the platform of every Republican candidate.
I'm not sure a blanket pardon would have been possible. It would have been so generalized as to open up all sorts of legal battles.
America as we once knew it is gone. Long gone. Liberal judges have been a great tool in expediting its destruction.
Wisconsin under our new liberal Karen Supreme court will probably head in the same direction.
God Bless Waukesha County.
It is a racist message from the white left, too.
The response to the J6 event has been disgusting. I'd like to see everyone jailed pardoned, and a large fraction of the DOJ jailed. That would be justice.
Shaking my head at what it must be like, to go through life with a mentality like some of those commenting here on what they proudly call 'justice' in our Democracy, or perhaps I should say,
'Just Us' in our Democracy.
The actions and totalitarian behavior of these corrupt leftist prosecutors and judges should tell you the 2020 voter fraud was VERY REAL. You are living under and installed President.
Quit fucking pretending anybody is "protecting democracy".
Trump is, because he is right. These J6 prisoners are now martyrs for freedom. This is the biggest "issue" in the coming year...
DeSantis and the GOPe field...silent.
You people need to stop thinking and acting like you live in a free country. You don't.
I'm starting to get here, which appalls me.
My husband was telling me that on Ingraham's show, she reported that it's being bruited about - by Schiff if I recall - that the 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump without conviction for participation in an insurrection. No discussion of what constitutes an insurrection (I mean, one would normally assume some form of arms, wouldn't one?) and who decides on that definition. No trial once that definition is agreed on. Just *snap* - off the ballot. Go to it, state AGs!
Also, she reported that the Arizona AG is saying that not only Trump but anyone at all who participated in "spreading the Big Lie" ought properly to be similarly disqualified. In other words, any member of Congress who questioned the purity of the 2020 election is permanently disqualified from holding public office, as of now.
And just like that, we're a single-party state.
Hey lefties - is this what you were after?
Blogger jaydub said...
January 6 may have been a national embarrassment, but any shame from that event pales in comparison to the national disgrace of the January 6 committee and the zealous political persecution of a ragtag bunch of losers.
The real embarrassment is the 2020 voter fraud and all the Americans who denied or cowered to its reality immediately after. Probably the worst was the "lets just move on" crowd.
J6 was a shitload of people that new the election was stolen. They were infiltrated by the feds to create a false flag, and prosecute those that question our new totalitarian gov't. Everyone except Ray Epps of course.
I don't really feel embarrassed about J6. The Trump crowd was correct, and the corruption was going on inside the Capitol. That's the reality.
So progs actually like the carceral state?
the fact they went to such extraordinary lengths proves he did win, they never did so in 2001 or 2005 and 2017,
Look on the bright side: at least he is not facing a potential death sentence like our president emeritus.
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LII U.S. Code Title 18 PART I CHAPTER 13 § 242
18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
(snip)
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, , or an attempt to kill, be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
John Henry
These poor patriots. All they wanted to do install their deity as the permanent president. That election was stolen. I know this because all the very smart prophets on the newsmax and on The breitbart and on the Alex Jones told me so. The kraken is being released, you just watch and see!
And all those damn commies burning the stuff in the riots. They make me so gosh tootin’ mad.
America weeps. Ashley Babbitt died for your sins.
Am I doing this right?
Hey lefties - is this what you were after?
Yes, this is exactly what they were after.
“You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart with spies and treason, right?” ~ Donald Trump
Tarrio was convicted, in an open trial, by a unanimous jury of 12. They deliberated for a week, even though one jury member indicated that they were largely united in clear guilty verdicts at an early stage of the deliberations. Tarrio, and his four trial co-defendants, were all found guilty. Beyond a reasonable doubt, as they were instructed. A fifth defendant pled guilty to seditious conspiracy.
DoJ statement on the case.
The DC trial judge, Timothy Kelly, was a Trump nominee to the DC District Court. Kelly has been a member of the Federalist Society for more than ten years. Previously, Kelly had been counsel to Republican Senator Chuck Grassley and served as Republican counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee.
We’re quickly getting to the point where prisons will only be used for Democrat’s political opponents.
Quit fucking pretending anybody is "protecting democracy".
Trump is, because he is right. These J6 prisoners are now martyrs for freedom. This is the biggest "issue" in the coming year...
DeSantis and the GOPe field...silent.
9/6/23, 8:25 AM
THIS!!!^^^^^^^^
Their silence has been deafening, and shows how scared they are to go against the violent, hateful left. Trump 2024...IF you want to keep our Republic.
This is insane and a great injustice. What crime, othe than tearing down a fence, did this man committ? Meanwhile, several lawyers got a couple months for throwing a couple sticks of dynamite in a police van during the 2020 BLM riots.
WHere are the ACLU and those who oppose excessive sentences or think we have too many people in jail.
Another thing, WHO gave this man this excessive senstence? He should be impeached. Or at least identified in the article. If Lefists can protest in front of Aliotos house, someone should do the same to this clown judge.
But of course nothing will be done. the Right LOVES Judicial tryanny. Its the constitution, doncha know.
This is just one more inidcator that Trump will be found guilty and jailed. These DC Federal Judges hate Trump and his supporters, and NO ONE is checking their unlimited power.
Sebastian said...
"So progs actually like the carceral state?"
Yes. They want you afraid to open your mouth. Self censorship is the best censorship of all.
And days spent in prison for those involved in the Russian collusion hoax? Zero
Which was a bigger threat to our so-called democracy? Just imagine if Obama had been the target instead of Trump. Whew boy. It would have been the biggest media story for decades to come. Those involved would have all been in a federal lock up by now.
Jamie said...
...that the 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump without conviction for participation in an insurrection.
This is the next ploy. Even GOPe Secretaries of State are in on the action. Specifically David Scanlan a Republican from NH elected in 2022.
If both parties engage in removing Trump from any state ballot, I think you could see the creation of a third party. I like Ron DeSantis. But if the uniparty says, we won't let you vote for Trump, but you can vote for this guy, I'll write in Trump. I would think at least 35 million MAGA voters would do the same.
If they pull it off, and DeSantis is the GOPe nominee, he'll be the Washington Generals to Gavin Newsome's Harlem Globetrotters.
In the news this morning I heard one of the ring leaders could not be at the capitol on jan6 because of a prior engagement.
What was so important that the insurrection against the US government couldn’t postpone nor cancel?
The making of an unsanitized 💣… The flying of a UFO into Mount Rushmore?
What poppycock.
Rich @ 6:02 AM: Your comments are suffused with self-righteous complacency and a strong whiff of sadism. You need help.
"So progs actually like the carceral state?"
As long as they get to hold the whips.
TreeJoe said...
"So they gave the most severe penalty to the black Cuban man who was claimed to have led a white nationalist seditious uprising. Am I getting this right?"
Free Mumia is sooo passe. Free Kique!
Any GOP president has to pardon these people, right? There's no way these people can actually be imprisoned that long, right?
Our corrupt illegitimate government continues it's march towards tyranny. I think the founding fathers had the solution for this tyranny.
Bushman, do you remember "A Clockwork Orange"?
Why was the gov experimenting with the Ludovico treatment? It was so that violent offenders could be released, to make room in prisons for political offenders.
In the end, of course, the gov just released the violent, untreated. Turned out they made fine police.
Ridiculous! I spent 28 years as a metropolitan prosecutor. Actively prosecuted or oversaw prosecution of tens of thousands of felonies. We were tough prosecutors, but outside of homicide cases 20-year sentences were rare and reserved for violent and/or repetitive offenders.
Judge Kelly is apparently another Trump mistake.
When will Enrique Tarrio and the hundreds of others sentenced for January 6 admit they were FBI undercover agents posing as MAGA supporters just to make Trump look bad?
"There’s a fight on twitter right now about whether Trump should be faulted for not issuing a blanket pardon before he left office."
Can you pardon someone for a crime for which they have yet to charged? I ask this question non-rhetorically- I simply don't know the answer.
Yes, Trump should have tried this, but it required him knowing beforehand how morally corrupt the Democrats were going to be on this issue. As low an opinion I had of the Democrats in early 2021, not even I thought they would go full Stalin on the protestors. These sentences make me ashamed to be an American.
Certainly breaking into the Capital and encouraging others to do the same was wrong, but 22 years in prison? Seems extreme. Compare that to what people get for breaking into the country illegally or encouraging others to do so. Ashli Babbitt at the Capital door never even got "halt or I'll shoot" while the threat of deadly force to protect the border is never considered.
"When Trump is wrongly convicted by the DC jury, how much time will that judge give him?"
It will be a life sentence at a minimum.
Buckwheathikes said...
"You people need to stop thinking and acting like you live in a free country. You don't. You live in Nazi, Germany. 1940. John Gill is your President. And he's operating literal gulags where innocent people are being imprisoned and thus tortured."
Gill saw National Socialism as a good and efficient form of government whose evils were the result of the "wrong men" being in charge. He thought he could introduce it to Ekos without the bad stuff. But if you set up a Nazi government, the National Socialist are going to end up in charge. And he ended up a drug addled puppet until the very end.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Melekon types in positions of power these days. It's gonna take a lot of Isaks to fix this before the credits roll.
Rich's comments above answer the question of how ordinary Germans in the 1930s and 40s could work with Hitler. There are tons of fascists all around of us all of the time, you just need to read their words and understand their dark hearts. Rich is somebody who gladly stick the boot in your face forever, if given the chance.
I hope every young person who has attended an Antifa rally is watching this with their brains turned on as much as is possible for such persons, and considering their future actions accordingly.
@Rich at 6:02: The sentence is ridiculous and so are your comments. You are evidently unfamiliar with the charges against Trump and the Constitution, particularly the First Amendment, if you think an appeal will depend on overturning the factual findings of a Democrat DC jury.
I had hoped to support DeSantis, but I now realize that re-electing Trump will define the future of the Republic. If Democrats retain the Presidency and control over federal law enforcement the police state will abide.
The tragedy is that rank-and-file Democrats are okay with that.
One of the things that frustrates me over the years, Ms. Althouse, is that you avoid offering your keen Law Professor analysis of the organized leftist Lawfare that has overwhelmed 21stC America.
You covered the drama around Scott Walker's governorship with cruel neutrality and that was great, but you carefully avoided poking the bear of prosecutorial adventurism that was part of it: the overnight arrests and prosecutions of Walker's political supporters were a disgusting new template that foreshadowed our current conditions -- right in your own back yard!
Now, whatever honest assessment of the evil hijinks going on now legally, you give no Law expert assistance.
Why are you silent against the horrible abusers of the law that are the lawyers & courts?
ptewy.
" the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones,"
The pot describes the kettle.
Says one thing to the judge and something else to others.
That never happens in real life.
***
Has any media outlet in the history of the United States ever described a group or individual as 'far-left'?
I don't think I've even seen Stalin described as far-left.
1. Owen, you are the one who needs help. Rich is right on, seems to me the only person on this thread with a brain. Jamie, quit listening to Laura ingraham, she has about as much credibility as Jesse Watters, which is none. Loudmouth, blowhard, misogynist. Why anyone listens to his idiotic rantings is beyond me. And Greg Gutfield, he is like verbal diarrhea. Says whatever comes to his mind at any time. What a jerk.
Why do some of the candidates on the right(little mr Vivek among others) want to raise the voting age to 25? they are petrified of the younger voter, who thinks that all of this "culture war" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Denying women their biological rights and preventing the LGBTQ+ population from living their lives is darn stupid and wrong headed.
Joey B may not be the best candidate or the best person on to vote for, but when the youth sees DJT, DeSantis, and Vivek vying to run the country, they will vote for ANY democrat over those pieces of trash.
Vicki from Pasadena
"rcocean said...
This is insane and a great injustice. What crime, other than tearing down a fence, did this man committ? Meanwhile, several lawyers got a couple months for throwing a couple sticks of dynamite in a police van during the 2020 BLM riots."
Except, he wasn't even in DC so if he were tearing down a fence, it wasn't at the Capitol.
@Owen: 22 years on behalf of the former host of the Apprentice. What a dolt.
Kind of amazing how Trump throws his supporters under the bus...... and they still follow him. Many Americans are in a deeply abusive relationship with Trump
wendybar wrote: “And he wasn't even there.”
You must be unaware of the Manson conviction. Are you implying Charlie Manson received a bad rap?
Biden DOJ asking for reduced sentence for BLM rioter who set fire that killed a man: Defendant felt 'frustrated...disenfranchised.' He was 'caught up in the fury of the mob.' And he believed that by rioting he was engaging in 'the language of the unheard.' - Byron York / X
BLM rioters were Dem Brownshirts, and the D of Just Us is looking out for them.
Does anyone remember Nelson Mandella? Gandhi? Ho Chi Minh? Political prisoners who emerged stronger than they were when they went to jail?
These Jan 6th political prisoners are in prison now preaching to others, and, like those that follow Islam, will get a lot of followers.
You turned a political protest into 'insurrection'... and unjustly jailed people.
Reap what you sow Democrats... this will come back to bite you.
Another thing, WHO gave this man this excessive senstence? He should be impeached. Or at least identified in the article. If Lefists can protest in front of Aliotos house, someone should do the same to this clown judge.
Apparently, your Google is broken. His name is Judge Timothy Kelly. Guess who appointed him? Donald Trump.
22 years? So about twice what a convicted murderer can expect.
"The pledge by GOP to release all the Jan 6 videos has been broken," Kelly reported on Sunday night after the Committee on House Administration released insanely onerous rules for journalists and J6 defendants to gain extremely limited access to the footage.
"I believed my involvement to make footage available was a temporary fix until staff could protect innocents from DOJ and thugs like Sedition Hunters," she said. "Now I see GOP has capitulated to DOJ and Capitol police."
The pledge by GOP to release all the Jan 6 videos has been broken.
I believed my involvement to make footage available was a temporary fix until staff could protect innocents from DOJ and thugs like Sedition Hunters. Now I see GOP has capitulated to DOJ and Capitol police.
— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) September 4, 2023
I have lots of video. And it would benefit me in many ways to keep it on close hold. But I will release what I have because this is wrong.
— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) September 4, 2023
https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=63947
Ten years for murdering someone via arson at a BLM riot; 11 years for shooting an innocent man to death while he walks down a DC street with his young children; 22 years for conspiracy as part of the J6 riot.
Yeah, that's just the rule of law, baby. Enjoy!
Completely unrelated, check out Byron York highlighting an outrageous case from last year that a lot of us assumed would get more traction: Washington Examiner - A Riot Is The Language of the Unheard
One in a progressive string, including national insurrections, a soft coup against a Republican president, and a second trial full of impeachments, indictments, and braying.
“Am I doing this right?”
Next time use ice cubes. It’s a hot Summer, Hag that Tea Bags!
It is entirely telling this is a political prosecution/persecution because NYT is looking for contrition.
"Politics ain't bean bag." Now it has gotten to be viciously partisan in every US Department. You can predict the verdict by knowing the trial city and who appointed the judge.
Victoria. Here’s why. Ask any random 23 year old who the speaker of the house is. Or the name of a single Supreme Court justice. Or what century the Civil War was fought.
The real embarrassment is the 2020 voter fraud and all the Americans who denied or cowered to its reality immediately after. Probably the worst was the "lets just move on" crowd.
J6 was a shitload of people that new the election was stolen. They were infiltrated by the feds to create a false flag, and prosecute those that question our new totalitarian gov't. Everyone except Ray Epps of course.
I don't really feel embarrassed about J6. The Trump crowd was correct, and the corruption was going on inside the Capitol. That's the reality.
Everybody knew this was a setup except Trump and the Republicans. Nancy Pelosi knew which is why she had her daughter there filming her walk out of the Capitol.
There were Republican members with challenges to submit on the vote but the "insurrection" occurred just as they were about to submit them. That was about the time the Capitol cops opened the doors. I wonder when Ray Epps got the signal to tell the guy next to him to tear the fence down?
Then, after all the fuss, the Congress members who had been prepared to challenge to vote were too cowardly to bring the fraud again. They didn't even try to visit the political prisoners. Gaetz and MTG were the only two I know of to visit and that was a fight.
Rich said...
"wendybar wrote: “And he wasn't even there.”
You must be unaware of the Manson conviction. Are you implying Charlie Manson received a bad rap?"
So who did this guy order murdered?
Southern California lefties are truly excremental people.
Any GOP president has to pardon these people, right? There's no way these people can actually be imprisoned that long, right?
------
Any republican other than Trump or vivek will leave the j6 protesters to rot. A few might get computations sometime around 2032, but no earlier than that. The GOp leadership likes what is happening. They despise the base, and Trump's supporters.
Denying women their biological rights
Wait a minute.
It's not biology that chops the baby into little pieces and sucks it out of the woman through a hose.
That fake group of "protestors. with the high and tight haircuts, who were pretending on the Capitol Mall to be Trump supporters were seen most recently pretending to be NeoNazis in Florida.
https://twitter.com/EblingJr/status/1454204840792502275/photo/1
That guy is the one looking at the camera.
Yancey said...
Can you pardon someone for a crime for which they have yet to charged?
Yes. For example, Nixon was pardoned by Ford prior to any charges being levied.
There is Supreme Court Case law as well:
"The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment. The power is not subject to legislative control." Ex parte Garland, 71 U.S. 333 (1866) [emphasis added].
If both parties engage in removing Trump from any state ballot, I think you could see the creation of a third party.
The 14th amendment clause 5 doesn't say anything about elections. Just serving as a an officer of the United States.
Even if Trump did engage in an insurrection, I don't think the 14th amendment bars him from running for office. Just serving. At which point the VP would take the presidency and a new VP would be appointed.
The Trump cult won’t give up its members easily. They’ll be forced to drink the metaphorical poisoned kool aid before they finally leave the cult. Proud boys and Oath Keepers were to Trump like the armed thugs were to the leader of The People’s Temple. Eventually the cult’s armed thugs turn on the cult members if they don’t go willingly to their death for the cult leader.
At the end of WW2 there were Germans loyal to leader to the last, while the bombs were falling on their heads in the bomb shelters, these loyal Germans still loved the leader. What is wrong with such people?
wendybar said...
...DeSantis and the GOPe field...silent.
They've said plenty. Maybe you just weren't paying attention.
But hey, let's not miss out on another opportunity to pimp for the one guy Biden can beat in 2024.
"Jamie, quit listening to Laura ingraham"
How on Earth would you know he does? Are you watching his house or something?
I am 66 and never owned a firearm because I saw no need, but people like you are making me question the wisdom of that decision.
"Rich said...
I wonder if the Proud Boys who were asked publicly, by Trump at his debate with President Biden, to “stand up and stand by” are now pondering their support as they begin their long prison sentences.
They tearfully pled for leniency. How pathetic"
Shorter Rich:
Wow! This is even better than erotic asphyxiation!
Jamie, quit listening to Laura ingraham, she has about as much credibility as Jesse Watters, which is none.
Gosh, thanks for the advice, Vicki! Though apparently you read my comment as carefully as ever: it was my husband, not I, who was listening to Ingraham's show, and she was reporting on easily checked matters such as Adam Schiff's recent comments and the comments of the Arizona Secretary of State.
Do you have any response to those actual comments by Schiff or Fontes?
Here's a source for Schiff's comments you may like better. (Warning: it's HuffPo.)
And here's the MSNBC Psaki interview with Adrian Fontes, who is the Arizona Secretary of State rather than AG, as I originally said, opining that although he anticipates that the supreme Court must weigh in on the decision as to whether Trump can be on the ballot, the 14th amendment actually applies to many officials in the state of Arizona as well.
I'm so glad you called out my source, so that I would confirm for myself that these two Democrats really do have the intent of keeping Trump, and possibly many others, off balance on the basis of the undefined but, one would think, existentially serious term "insurrection."
Any other advice to offer about where I should go for news?
"If Lefists can protest in front of Aliotos house, someone should do the same to this clown judge."
Apparently, your Google is broken. His name is Judge Timothy Kelly. Guess who appointed him? Donald Trump.
Implication being that of course Republicans/people on the right/Trump supporters would never protest a Trump -appointed judge's decision! Why? Because Trump appointed him, of course!
Freder, that's your side's view. No enemies to the left and all.
Try engaging with your opponents as they actually exist and maybe you'll learn something, get somewhere, whatever. Ascribing to us the things that you do isn't doing to cut it.
Blogger Inga said...
The Trump cult won’t give up its members easily
The Dullard thinks the Trump supporters, who were paying $2 a gallon for gas, no wars, inflation at 2%, border fairly secure are a cult.
Tell me what you'd call a group that will vote for a senile corrupt old man who has wrecked the economy, abolished the border, is very close to a nuclear war and takes bribes from the Chinese and Ukraine ?
Blogger Rich said...
wendybar wrote: “And he wasn't even there.”
You must be unaware of the Manson conviction. Are you implying Charlie Manson received a bad rap?
So the Proud Boys = Manson Gang? The crazies are really out today.
Why do some of the candidates on the right(little mr Vivek among others) want to raise the voting age to 25?
Vicky, as usual, you don't get the point. Vivek has other conditions, such as military service. Your idiotic question shows little contact with 23 year olds today. Why not try an experiment ? Ask a 23 years old person, even a Harvard grad if you prefer, what year the Civil War was begun or who our ally was in WWII. Or even who the American Revolution was fought against. Or name the Vice President or a Supreme Court Justice.
Inga compares 71 million voters to Jonestown and the Nazis.
That's some pretty sharp political commentary, right there.
It seems to me that 22 years has nothing to do with Jan 6, except tangentially. But the media and dot.gov want you to put to bed any thoughts of going against them.
Free Manure WYW, it's ok, I mentioned in my comment that my husband (not I) had been listening to Laura Ingraham. I feel pretty certain that if Vicki were watching me, someone in my neighborhood would have called the local constable on her by now; we don't take well to stalkers in these parts.
Vicki's harmless. She never engages with an actual argument. I am making an assumption, of course, of her pronouns based on her name, so I will preemptively denounce myself.
Beloved commenter Inga said...
The Trump cult won’t give up its members easily. They’ll be forced to drink the metaphorical poisoned kool aid before they finally leave the cult. Proud boys and Oath Keepers were to Trump like the armed thugs were to the leader of The People’s Temple. Eventually the cult’s armed thugs turn on the cult members if they don’t go willingly to their death for the cult leader.
Always amusing to see "the koolaid" mentioned without reference to Jim Jones glorification by high powered Democrats, including President Carter, Governor Jerry Brown, Willie Brown,Nancy Pelosi, Harvey Milk and a plethora of others. Another example of projection, I suppose.
Incidentally: "The surprising thing is that all the sources on the massacre say the powder was the grape variety of another drink brand, Flavor Aid. Made by Jel-Sert,"
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/how-san-franciscos-democrats-made-jim-jones-and-then-made-his-memory-vanish
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/23/8647095/kool-aid-jonestown-flavor-aid
Thanks, Brian. I remembered the Nixon pardon, but no one legally challenged it either.
Everybody knew this was a setup except Trump and the Republicans.
I think most members of the Republican Party recognized the setup. It’s a black mark against Trump and the people he listened to (assuming that it isn’t the null set) that they didn’t.
The future of the party will be with the now unseen and unheard non-Trumpers.
The non-Trumpers certainly are being seen and heard. What isn’t going to happen for them is success at the ballot box unless and until they make an honest effort to understand the economic needs of the middle and working classes, and then develop and implement economic policies to address those needs. So far the main data point the middle class has are the Republicans in 2016 who ran hard against Obamacare but once the GOP held the Presidency, the House, and the Senate they did nothing. Indeed, few ran harder against Obamacare than John McCain, so his thumbs down gesture whilevplunging a knife into Senate efforts to overturn Obamacare showed middle class voters that the GOP could not be counted on to follow through on campaign promises.
"Apparently, your Google is broken. His name is Judge Timothy Kelly. Guess who appointed him? Donald Trump."
I shouldn't have to GOOGLE IT. The Article should be have been written as: "US District Court Judge Timothy kelly sentenced proud boy to 17 years in prison for Conspiracy". And it should be about WHY Kelly did this, and WHAT Kelly said and WHY this insane unheard of sentence is justified.
Because if "The proud boys" had been a leftwing antifascist organization protesting trump or a Republican or ...anything, that's how the NYT would report it. Instead, its written in this weird passive convoluted way to focus on the Proud Boy and how he said this or that.
And this brings me to my other general point: the absolute refusal of so many of these news articles and people on twitter to IDENTIFY CLEARLY and UPFRONT the name of the judge(S), who appointed them and POSITION they hold
I'm gettng sick & tired of having to scan through an article to find out whether the fucking judge is federal or state. And if Federal whether he's a district or appeals. And if he's state whether he's state supreme court, apppeals or whatever. Too many of them say "Judge rules X" - well, that's incomplete info.
And the same is true of the SCOTUS. I'm sick and tired of the wapo/NYT's writing "SCOTUS Rules X", and then having skim through the whole goddamn article to find out (1) what the vote count was and (2) who exactly was in the minority or majority. Partly its because they're CONSTANTLY pushing the DNC party line and partly they're just plain lazy.
Give Rich back his binky so he'll be quiet for a while and take his mind off the masturbation he enjoys while he drops his turd of a comment.
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
He'll be push into the boxcar as soon as it is filled with conservatives, his services are a kapo no longer needed.
but no one legally challenged it either.
The pardon power only has one exception. Impeachment. Otherwise its not reviewable. I think if the founders wanted it to be for crimes not charged then they would have said that.
We are so beyond what the founders could have imagined though.
I hope Trump pardons every single one of the people jailed for J6. Let them all out out and allow them to have all their liberty restored.
Rich said...
wendybar wrote: “And he wasn't even there.”
You must be unaware of the Manson conviction. Are you implying Charlie Manson received a bad rap?
9/6/23, 11:11 AM
The only deaths that day, were of two Trump supporters murdered by the Capitol police.
Owen said...
"Rich @ 6:02 AM: Your comments are suffused with self-righteous complacency and a strong whiff of sadism. You need help."
"Rich" is Chuck under another name. Chuck spend every cent of his credibility here and has been forced to continue to offer upm his wisdom(sic) under another name. But his mediocrity shines through. Like Benny Profane onced remarked, " Where ever yo go. There you are."
It seems to me that 22 years has nothing to do with Jan 6, except tangentially. But the media and dot.gov want you to put to bed any thoughts of going against them.
I don't think this is having quite the effect you say they are seeking.
I was raised in a patriotic family, with many relatives in law enforcement and military service. Even fifteen or twenty years ago, if there were an actual insurrection aimed at overthrowing the US Federal Government, I would have been all-in for suppressing it, regardless of the political party controlling Washington.
No longer. I consider today's Democratic Party, and their wholly-owned secret police in the FBI, CIA, and Justice Department, to be the #1 enemy of all freedom-loving people not just in America but worldwide. Worse than Putin. Worse than Xi. Worse than the Taliban or the drug cartels or global warming. I have not the slightest shadow of a doubt they are fixing the elections. I know for a fact that they are conspiring with the one-party news media and the titans of Silicon Valley to enslave us. I believe their potential for tyranny, sadism, corruption, and warmongering is fully the equivalent of any Nazi or Communist who ever lived.
If a massive armed insurrection aimed at the destruction of the Deep State and the removal of every leftist from any position of power and public trust ever occurred, I would now cheer it on. I'm getting a little long in the tooth to participate, but I'd for sure be there in spirit.
TRUMP OR WAR.
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