A caption under a photograph of so many tourists at the Parthenon that it makes me think it's absolutely pointless (aesthetically) to visit the Parthenon. That's my cultural norm. I don't want the sight I'm seeing to be other tourists.
But the article is about the cultural norms of the people in the place the tourists are visiting: "Iced Coffee and Flip-Flops as Europe Broils? Not So Fast, Americans. As large numbers of U.S. tourists visit Europe during a record hot summer, their efforts to stay cool are running up against cultural norms" (NYT).
The article still takes the point of view of the American tourists, because the reason for paying attention to the cultural norms of the place you are visiting is that you aspire to "blend in with the locals."
The NYT embeds a TikTok of Americans in Amalfi struggling to resist the powerful urge to ask for ice water. Another TikTokker, Amanda Rollins, advises Americans to accept that there will be only minimal air conditioning: “Even when it’s on, it’s not ‘United States on.’” And you can't use the heat as an excuse not to dress respectably:
“Even when it’s hot out, I’ll see French people wearing a long sleeve or a long dress or a coat,” Ms. Rollins said, adding that she rarely saw Parisians wearing shorts. That is a contrast to the American style in hot summers: “We’re like as close to naked as we can be,” she said.
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99 comments:
Instructions for going to Europe.
1) Go in the Fall.
2) Or go in the Spring.
3) Don't just have a page of boxes on which you can check off the 'key tourist venues' as you go by them. (Here's me at the Duomo!)
4) Small villages in the countryside of any country are marvelous ways to really see and learn about the people and land there.
5) Read articles about the most popular places to visit in any given year. Book your vacation in other places.
Just a suggestion.
Yes Europe!!! Great place for northerners to visit any time. Much better than Texas where the cultural norm is shorts, iced tea, and air conditioning.
Althouse writes, "...the reason for paying attention to the cultural norms of the place you are visiting is that you aspire to "blend in with the locals."
That's not wearing a beret with your name inscribed in glue-n-glitter anymore. To blend in today you need a burnoose and a selection of Molotov cocktails strapped to your waist.
You can't wear socks with flip-flops, so I see the problem.
Even when it’s hot out, I’ll see French people wearing a long sleeve
in August? I Seriously Doubt, that you'd see ANY actual French people in Paris in August.
They're ALL on Vacation
"We are away on vacation and the office is closed. We'll be back Aug. 30."
Ah, Paris in August.
You can forget working. You can also forget making a doctor's appointment, getting your car fixed, visiting your accountant or just about anything else you might want to get done. Nearly everyone is gone, and everything has to wait until September.
Parisians take the month off.. ALWAYS. Please TRY to pay attention
The way Europeans dress was much less of a culture shock to me than the fact they apparently haven't learned to make ice.
The Ugly American was published in 1958...ignorant about international realities and insensitive to cultural norms...evergreen critique...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_American
Screw their norms. Their economies rely on our tourist dollars to even appear anything close to functional. If they want our dollars, they can shut up and put up with our flip flops and shorts. If the burden is too much for them, there are plenty of places who are willing to do it, and Europe can sink further into failure.
"running up against cultural norms"
But not against the supreme cultural norm, that one ought to extract as much money as possible from American tourists.
(1) The savvy tourist might think of checking average temperatures at their destinations before they book trips. I want to see the pyramids on the Giza Plateau before I kick the bucket, but I won’t we going there in the summer. Nor will I drink tap water, iced or otherwise, once I get there.
(2) Locals can already spot an American tourist a least a quarter mile (400 meters) away. Still, if the sight you are seeing requests that woman have their shoulders covered and men wear long pants, do it. Don’t bitch about it if you didn’t think to check in advance.
(3) We get it, Althouse. You don’t much care for travel. But it’s a personal idiosyncrasy, not something for the more inquisitive among us to emulate. Not all learning comes out of books and YouTube videos.
I visited Europe off and on over 20 years, and lived there for a couple, and can attest to the fact they seem to have a real problem with ice water, and just ice as a concept. Seriously getting offended if you asked for it.
But then, they get seriously offended if you do anything different from them.
By the way, living in Europe is the only way to get to know it. Tourists can't learn shit in two weeks anywhere. Once you live there, then you learn their prejudices and biases, hypocrisies and stupidities. Little things, like the Television Tax and other bullshit that they come up with to screw each other come to the front of your awareness. How provincial and backward they are is rarely mentioned in any article I read, and the way they're paranoid, and plot on each other, is left to foreign film scripts, not a Rick Steves travel special.
I've never felt a compulsion to go back.
I visited the Parthenon for the first time in 1971. It was blistering, and almost everyone wore shorts--mostly cutoffs, as a matter of fact--and sandals. There was no talk of decorum violations.
Why does anyone read the the NYT??i
Shorts and flip flops --- that's a no-no!
Tits on a beach --- perfectly natural!
Them Cultural Norms can just be difficult little buggers to comprehend, they can!
Provided tourists aren't being either criminal or rude, does anyone really care?
Yes, it annoys me when immigrants can't be bothered to learn the language or the cultural/social norms of country they nominally are supposed to be making an effort to join, but I've never been the slightest bit annoyed at tourists not being up-to-date on what clothes to wear or what drinks they should or shouldn't order, or having less-than-stellar English. Does anyone, anywhere, really go, gosh that person who is in my city for two days ordered a drink with too much ice!
But Americans whose main crimes are smiling too much, wearning fanny packs, and being willing to spend lots of money are still a safe group of foreigners to mock.
Things never change. The French snobs forgot to tell Pattons Third Army how to dress in mid August 1944 as they exterminated 3 German Army Corps in the Failaise Pocket opening the way to Paris so DeGaulles small French unit could take the victory lap there followed by the mighty Third Army rolling through on the tail of the retreating Germans. Les Soldats Americaine just couldn’t get no respect from the French.
It is hard to get ice in Europe and it is hard to get Schweppe's Bitter Lemon in the US. Tradeoffs. It is also difficult to find public restrooms in Italy, all the travel guides warn you to never order a Cappuccino after 10 AM in Italy. My wife always ordered a Cappuccino no matter the time of day, and do you know what the Italian's who took her order did? They brought her a Cappuccino. And why was she ordering Cappuccino (and me expresso or bitter lemon)? So we could use the cafe's restrooms.
Summer is hot and sunny; in fact, Athens in summer is the hottest capital of Europe. In July and August, the temperature quite easily reaches 35/36 °C (95/97 °F), but during heatwaves, it can reach as high as 40 °C (104 °F). The highest record is 43 °C (109.5 °F) and was set in August 2021.
If visiting Greece and planning on the beach please remember that water is wet. Especially in summer
John Henry
Ann ~ "...butt up..." and not any discussion or breakdown of the phrasing or appropriateness of the word choice? I have regularly read this blog for a long number of years. The brilliant sunrise and nature photos, the cruel neutrality, our mutual origins and maybe perspective (SJersey and Delaware), your legal consideration and analysis, the reliable humor and insight are all great, always have been. But its the written word discussion that keeps my attention! Please, give some analysis, history and discussion on this phrase as only you can?
"Etiquette and norms..."
That's a laugh. The two times I was really affected by boorish tourist behavior were 1) by a group of Poles on a dive boat in Palau, and 2) numerous locals skiing in Austria.
The Polish group was so bad that several others consulted with the captain about dive safety issues.
The Austrian skiiers were the most entitled people I've ever encountered travelling. My German host later tried to explain that behavior as a cultural hangover from WW2, which I'm afraid I still don't quite grasp.
Addendum: the Acropolis is a must see, but I found it left me cold. It's inhuman, like big government buildings these days. Visit Mycenae and Knossos instead, to get sense of their daily lives.
In Paris the guys always wore a thin sweater not worn but tied around their neck. It was the cool thing to do I guess.
Last thing I want to do is blend in with the locals! What, they might think I'm a spy or some weirdo. No no, I project the carefully crafted image of Eastern European Tourist. That's right! I got my black socks with sandals and that post-Communist look of grim determination when you think things should have gotten better but it's the same old clowns with different labels now. I start every sentence with "Ehhhhh...". My canvas bag contains sausage, rye bread and lard with bacon bits and a jar of horseradish and I will spread that shit out in public like a boss.
So now they know definitely I am a tourist, but I might be very very drunk and either extremely affectionate or suddenly angry, but in either case possibly violent! I also could be totally flat broke or some sort of oligarch on the down low. No one knows! It keeps them on their toes and cautious! By then I've finished my delicious sausage and I'm off to the Parthenon!
I’m hearing it was the coldest summer in the UK since 1991. I guess the UK doesn’t count anymore since Brexit.
On my first trip to Italy in 2007 I followed Rick Steeves' advice and dressed like a local. I was stopped multiple times every day by other tourists with questions. My last several trips to Europe I dressed like I do at home in Virginia..nobody bothered me.
My problem with shorts and flip-flops has less to do with aesthetics and more to do with practicality. I would want sturdier shoes for walking around. Long, loose-fitting pants would keep you cooler (and less sunburnt) than shorts. I don't care that much what other people are wearing. I just want them to not be loud or smelly.
Shane @ 10:35: I heartily second your request to Ann. That NYT prose really stuck in my eye: “men in shorts…butt up…” cries out for close textual analysis.
May in Sicily. A beyond beautiful place and the best Greek ruins in the entire Mediterranean in Agrigento. Go there in the late afternoon as the sun sets. We walked the entire area of ruins with only one other couple - Hellen Mirren and her husband Taylor.
What a silly article. The author must be neurotic.
If you are in Europe and you want ice, just ask for ice. No one will care.
Blogger Enigma said...
The Ugly American was published in 1958...ignorant about international realities and insensitive to cultural norms...evergreen critique...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_American
Utter bullshit, Enigma. And I know the bullshit is Wikipedia's, not yours.
The "ugly American" of the novel's title was described as physically ugly. But from the novel, he was culturally beautiful. He was an American Engineer who traveled around Vietnam (Thailand?) on his own dime, living in villages converting surplus Jeep engines into water pumps. He was well loved and made friends wherever he went. I don't remember "international realities" entering into his thoughts and motives much. He was concerned with making life better on the ground, one village at a time.
It has been a long time since I've read the book but I remember it as a pretty good read. More importantly, I have read the book. Pretty much monthly I run across some expert who wants to tell me that the "ugly American" of the title is the stereoptypical boorish American in shorts and flip-flops.
The "ugly American" is actually a paragon we should all aspire to be. Pretty much all of us fall short.
John Henry
LOL as if “etiquette and norms” hadn’t already been extinguished by the Left’s Long March through the institutions. Even basic norms such as men are men and women are women have been cancelled. When even the concept of objective truth is verboten how can these scribes appeal to the authority of etiquette and norms?
Go in February.
I went on a cruise with 300 close friends in 1969 and was in Athens in August. Even did a group tour (because we got a day off to do it) including the Parthenon. I don't remember Athens, or any of our other glamorous ports of call as being particularly hot. Summerish, sure. But nothing I was not used to from everywhere else I've ever been in summer.
Of course, a half hour after we debarked the fleet landing we were in no condition to notice anything being particularly anything. But I don't think we had started drinking when we went to the Parthenon.
Must be that global boiling making Athens so much hotter these days.
John Henry
I say, wear the traditional, cultural summer costume of North America proudly. They need to be more inclusive. In religious environments be modest. That is also a traditional American value.
Re: Crack Emcee:
I visited Europe off and on over 20 years, and lived there for a couple, and can attest to the fact they seem to have a real problem with ice water, and just ice as a concept. Seriously getting offended if you asked for it.
I've heard (in Asia, not Europe) people express concern that your body can receive a harmful shock from the sudden temperature change caused by ingesting ice-cold water on a hot day (because our innards shouldn't be changing temperature at all regardless of how hot we feel, seeing as we are warm blooded, I have always thought this to be rubbish). I hear the same thing about going from the hot/humid outdoors straight into super-cold air conditioning and vice versa.
But... diversity!?
So this French hag prances on about how superior they are because they adapt to climate change better than American tourists and expect them to do the same.
How about France banning tourism instead, which has a large, unnecessary climate impact. But no, the Times is promoting European travel this year to get their tourist ad volume back. They recommend both France and Greece this year, and also, even more of their destinations are so remote they require extensive air and road travel. It looks to me to be the most emissions-creating 52 Places to Travel of all time. Someone should do a chart.
And to the hag: you want our greenbacks, learn how to treat your customers. Oh, and, aren't you at all concerned for the health of the masses of Muslim slave-class women you imported sweating to death in their black burkas? Oiu? Non.
On Kim DuToit's recommendation I just finished reading "Citizens of London" by Lynne Olsen. I highly recommend. The citizens of the title are Ed Murrow of CBS, Gil Winant, the American Ambassador and Averell Harriman head of Lend-Lease.
The first thing that pissed me off about the book was the title. They were citizens of the US, not London but they tended to forget that. Lots and lots of douchebaggery in the early part of the book as Britain entices FDR, against the wishs of virtually every American and congressman and senator, into the WWII.
Then, when we had no national interest is giving Britain as much as a sausage complaining about all the material and later American blood spent on their behalf. The Brits have to be the whiniest nation ever.
I guess I can understand why. They were in existential danger and needed us to pull their chestnuts from the fire again. I might whine too if I thought it would do any good.
As I say, an excellent book, once I got into it I could not put it down.
On Amazon's recommendation I just started Reading Lynne Olsen's "Those Angry Days" it seems to focus on FDR and Charles Lindbergh and the intervention vs isolation battle in the US in the late 30's. I just read the first chapter over lunch and it seems like it is going to be just as good.
I think I would have read it first, for chronological order, had I known. But I don't think it is too important.
John Henry
Only a noob would go to Europe in the summer and not early spring or late autumn
Only a noob would go to Europe in the summer and not early spring or late autumn
Qoute from Angry Days:
Giving voice to the national mood, Ernest Hemingway wrote in 1935: “Of the hell broth that is brewing in Europe we have no need to drink.… We were fools to be sucked in once in a European war, and we shall never be sucked in again.”
Brandon seems to be running the same Wilson /fdr playbok trying to drag us into war wit Russia on Europe's behalf.
As Victoria Kagan Nudelman said, regarding Ukraine "Fuck the EU"
John Henry
The article still takes the point of view of the American tourists, because the reason for paying attention to the cultural norms of the place you are visiting is that you aspire to "blend in with the locals."
Pity the NYT doesn't also believe that people illegally coming to the US with no intention of ever going back home should respect our cultural norms and aspire to blend in with the locals, don't you think?
Why is it Americans should be concerned about how foreigners see them when they're on vacation (spending money supporting those countries economies) but we're expected to accept foreigners (and their culture) when they come here (with no money or resources to support themselves) to stay or we're just a bunch of big, mean racists?
Shouldn't the Americans be trying to impose American cultural norms on the benighted Europeans? You know, rioting, looting, jumping on cars. I guess the French are already moving in that direction. Not so sure about the Greeks.
Hubby and I went to Europe early in November of 2002. I did my research before going over and we had a great time taking the train around the perimeter of Germany. (Hubby hates big cities.) We left our jeans and athletic shoes at home. I also learned key German phrases for basic tourist survival. (It helped I grew up hearing German. I wasn't taught it because then my mom and Grandma wouldn't have been able to gossip.) We had a great time - hardly any other tourists. Being from Wisconsin we weren't bothered by the cooler weather. I will always remember one particular train ride. We boarded a train car and sat down. Later the conductor came by and saw that we had Eurail tickets and we were eligible for first class. Our seats were comfortable enough for us so we told him we would stay where we were. The people around us suddenly had all smiles and seemed rather...I guess the word would be appreciative. Impressed we weren't uppity? Anyway, make an effort and it will be appreciated. The only time we had a miserable train ride was going from Mons to Brussels. My husband said something to me in English and suddenly the French speakers acted like we had cooties.
I've been lots of places and haven't found anyplace I wasn't looking forward to getting home from.
On my first trip to Italy in 2007 I followed Rick Steeves' advice and dressed like a local. I was stopped multiple times every day by other tourists with questions.
@Elliott, other tourists, maybe yes. But don’t worry, the locals had you pegged as an American in nanoseconds.
A beyond beautiful place and the best Greek ruins in the entire Mediterranean in Agrigento.
The ruins at Olympia, the island of Delos, and Akrotiri on Santorini. See them before you say “best Greek ruins.”
Do the Slut Walk, but flip flops are deplorable.
Leland said...
Texas... iced tea..
If you are from the North and traveling Southward, ordering iced tea is a gamble. Somewhere around the Mason-Dixon Line, ordering Iced Tea transubstantiates into Sweet Tea. Which is a pleasant or unpleasant surprise depending on which type of tea you prefer.
madAsHell said...Why does anyone read the NYT??
Altogether now chorus, "So we don't have to."
So what?!? In my experience Russian tourists gawk at everything, no matter what, like they've just been transported to Mars. German tourists stomp around like they didn't lose the war and they own the place. French tourists go "UGH" at everything and everybody, but you can tell that it's rooted in some national inferiority complex. Spaniards do the same. Tourists just suck no matter where they're from.
This article is a bunch of hooey. Some of it was true 30 or 40 years ago, but other than Paris and Milan no one gets that dressed up anymore. And the "ugly" tourists are now Russians and Chinese or British football fans who take over the continental cities at away games. The reason A/C is somewhat rare in Europe is because electricity rates are two to three times the typical US rate and the buildings, particularly the ones not built in the last 40 years, are not designed for it. Europeans are much less environmentally concerned than Americans assume they are, with much of the energy savings focus artificially created by burdensome regulations. For example, electricity rates are based on the maximum potential your home is going to consume, not just how much you use, and if you go over your paid maximum usage rate for more than 10 minutes or so your main breaker trips. This approach normally requires people to pay a premium on what they actually use because they must pay higher fees to cover the rare times when they need a little extra juice. Also, Europeans, particularly in the South, have developed an anti-regulation culture because they are nickle/dimed on everything - you'll find many people skip out on auto insurance, inspections, and even registration. Most people go on vacation during the second half of July and August because they don't have and/or can't afford reliable A/C or proper natural ventilation in their homes and workplaces; hence just leave for the beach during those months.
Bottom line is you can't look at what happens in Europe and compare it to how the same thing is done in the US because the basic processes are so different. For example, everyone talks about the "free healthcare" in Europe, but if you dig into it you will likely find that healthcare standards in Europe and the US are very different. In Spain, for instance, the medical procedures are prepaid via payroll taxes, but not the hospital meals or patient assistance or most other things that are included in US hospital stays - your family is expected to do the patient nursing, provide the food and the like or you pay extra above the cost of medical care. Similarly, most colleges are largely free in Europe, but don't expect to find dorms, cafeterias, student centers or libraries or safe spaces for snowflakes- you're on your own for those. You may not even be eligible to pursue the major you prefer because not every curriculum is found at every school. I'm not making a value judgement on which processes are right or better, just pointing out that things are so different that it's not worth wasting you time worrying about for a two week vacation.
No American should worry about social faux pas on European vacations. Just be polite and keep a low profile and you'll be doing much better than many of the natives as well as better than most of the tourists from other countries.
Things like this always produce whining across the spectrum--as sure as sunrise it's all here.
My own travel experiences in Euroland have been almost entirely positive, whether I was seen as an American tourist or mistaken for a local. (The waiters at our hotel in Paris were disdainful of my wine selections--i.e. "merci, non"--but I expected that and found it amusing.)
Good manners are understood everywhere, and surprisingly useful.
The only tourist rudeness I saw a lot of was the way Chinese visitors moved about in scrums, but I suppose they are punished if they stand out. But at least they weren't threatening like the scrums of North Africans who mob Americans with loud pro-American statements while trying to pick pockets and snatch purses.
The topic of European travel always seems to bring out the very worst in Althouse commenters. People are not so very different no matter where you go. Customs and expectations may vary, but the people are people. With all the good and bad that entails. Live among them (whoever) for a few years. It's the same shit everywhere. I'm OK with that.
Great advice Temujin. Would never go many places in Europe in the summer. Brits going to Spain, Spaniards going to wherever. Think the French are too smug to travel at all, though I met some delightful French people when living in New Orleans and NYC. Very rare though. Only places I would go summer would be Portugal or Ireland. Greece and Italy are only for fall.
Anyone have any stats on the number of Europeans coming to the US to visit LA, SFO or NYC?
"Blending in with the locals" would take a lot of effort, starting with sleeping in tents on the street.
Steven said...
"What a silly article. The author must be neurotic.
If you are in Europe and you want ice, just ask for ice. No one will care."
Not true. Some (Many? Most?) will hurumph, and spit, and make a big deal about having to go to a special refrigerator, waaay in the back, that they never visit unless they must. They might come back with a cooler of some kind, that makes a "Pah!" sound when they open it, so how long it's been since it's been opened can be all dramatic. Then they stare at you, hard, as they say (impatiently and with a steely edge) "ice". They might even look around at anyone else in the bar or restaurant, like they're Jack Benny encountering a fool for the first time, and not a tourist - the fucking backbone of their lame-ass country.
Jupiter said...
"Shouldn't the Americans be trying to impose American cultural norms on the benighted Europeans? You know, rioting, looting, jumping on cars. I guess the French are already moving in that direction. Not so sure about the Greeks."
The French have their own thing: setting cars on fire. Except they set entire parking garages of cars on fire. It's sort of like "Devil's Night" in Detroit except it happens more often, and across the country. If you're going to the villages to stay there, you can see people still fighting with hand grenades, left over from World War II. I learned that one night, when a friend came home from working as a bouncer at a club. Some guy had thrown a hand grenade in the place, because he wanted to have a beer after hours, and they wouldn't let him. I told another friend about it, and that's when he broke out his collection and I went "Ahhhhh"
Balfegor said...
I've heard (in Asia, not Europe) people express concern that your body can receive a harmful shock from the sudden temperature change caused by ingesting ice-cold water on a hot day (because our innards shouldn't be changing temperature at all regardless of how hot we feel, seeing as we are warm blooded, I have always thought this to be rubbish). I hear the same thing about going from the hot/humid outdoors straight into super-cold air conditioning and vice versa.
Backwards medical beliefs, regarding "humors" and old-fashioned things like that, are still with us today. The French just stopped using homeopathy and I wouldn't use traditional Chinese medicine for anything. Both are popular with the American New Age movement.
Next time I'm in Europe I'll try to emulate some local habits like dining and dashing as the Dutch do or trashing the place like the English. And I'll feel so cultured doing it.
There are tourists and there are travelers. The tourists stand out, boorish and ignorant, and are to be mulcted of every coin they possess, and if possible, robbed of anything portable and valuable. That is why they exist, to enrich the local economy at the lowest possible expense to all involved. The travelers blend in better, and are to be entertained and treated as honored guests who are in country to experience the local scene while on their way elsewhere.
Be a tourist at your peril. Travel wisely.
Watched the entire Tour De France on tv. Three week bike race across the entire country. Saw thousands of Europeans dressed in shorts, tees and flip flops/athletic shoes. They looked like they would fit into any American town or city. This is a NYT fantasy
John Henry wrote:
On Kim DuToit's recommendation I just finished reading "Citizens of London" by Lynne Olsen.
If you like Citizens of London you should read Lynne Olson's "Madame Fourcade's Secret War"
It is about a French woman who ran the largest French spy network for the French Resistance during WWII.
John Henry: I was lucky to study and tutorial under the great Justus Doenecke as he was writing books expanding the usual one-dimensional views of both FDR and Isolationism. I saw Lindbergh as a scapegoat who, despite being perjured, did more to warn America about Germany's air power than anyone by touring their forces and (uncharacteristically) loudly praising their skill, which he had to do to gain access. When refused an American aviator post, he went and fought for our side anyway in an international force (and may have quietly done more for our administration while publicly enduring slings and arrows).
Storm on the Horizon is one such Doenecke book. I think you would like it.
Blogger rhhardin said...
I've been lots of places and haven't found anyplace I wasn't looking forward to getting home from.
Amen. Click you heels and say 3 times "There's no place like Home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home."
Back in 17, when we had been 3 months with no electricity and no end in sight (4 months, eventually) my wife and I seriously talked about moving to the upper 50. That conversation lasted about 20 minutes before we decided that no matter how bad it might get, this is home and we will stay here forever.
John Henry
If I were foolish enough to go in Summer, I'd pack linen -- even though it wrinkles.
My dermatologist tells me to keep the sun off my skin. I try to follow her advice. Linen is made for hot weather.
I learned in my teens not to drink icewater when I was really hot. If you just sip it you are probably OK but if you slam down a big glass of icewater it can give you stomach cramps. Cool, perhaps 60 degrees is best if you are trying to hydrate.
I worked in a steam engine room in the Navy. Over 90 in most parts most of the time. Over 100 in some parts. In Cuba, where the outside temp was in the high 90s, probably closer to 100-110 in the normal work areas.
We drank strong hot coffee by the gallon to keep cool. Seems counterintuitive but works.
I spent a week in a cheese factory a couple years ago. They kept the entire plant, including offices and locker rooms at 50 degrees. The areas they worked with cheese had to be cold. They said that moving between cold working areas and normal temp offices caused a lot of health problems and keeping evertying cold was the best work environment. My first day was miserable since I was dressed for normal temps. A quick trip to Walmart and I had long johns and a heavy sweatshirt. It was not bad after that.
John Henry
"Backwards medical beliefs, regarding "humors" and old-fashioned things like that, are still with us today. "
And horoscopes are all the rage among the science-believing, reality-based community here in the US. Not sure about other places.
Fuck the stodgy Euros!
And fuck that tool, Graham Greene.
"Screw their norms. Their economies rely on our tourist dollars to even appear anything close to functional. If they want our dollars, they can shut up and put up with our flip flops and shorts. If the burden is too much for them, there are plenty of places who are willing to do it, and Europe can sink further into failure."
The Ugly American speaks!
Well, you can always go see the Parthenon in Nashville, if that is the issue. It's nice. It's a replica obviously and it is not marble, but it is intact, unlike the original after it was used as an ammo dump. The statue of Athena is legitimately awe inspiring.
"The 'ugly American' is actually a paragon we should all aspire to be. Pretty much all of us fall short."
There are plenty of "Ugly Americans" who live down to the alternate meaning of the phrase, and who are far from being paragons of good character.
Temp Blog said...
"And horoscopes are all the rage among the science-believing, reality-based community here in the US."
Show me a science-believing, reality-based community here in the US. I'm still trying to find one.
Althouse eschews travel, right? Thus this article was interesting to her. Those of us who have seen the world realize it's not a big deal. I, and my French, German, African friends wore basic tees and shorts all summer long when we were in our Twenties. All over Europe. It might have seemed quirky to a few oldsters, but it was, and still is, the norm.
I've never been there. A girl skipped the start of college to visit a boyfriend stationed in Germany after peacekeeping in Kosovo. They'd travel and she was disappointed that in Paris he refused to do the Eiffel Tower because he didn't want to be confined with a bunch of smelly Europeans. That was in the fall.
In Nashville they say their Parthenon is much better than the one in Athens--it's almost like new!
It has been very Sept/Oct-like around here in the last few days, but temps and heat indexes will be in the 100-112 range by next week.
Many, if not most of the foreign tourists who visit Memphis come for the music, and this is Elvis Week--a big one for the local economy, and I've seen a lot of people by his house (not Graceland). Lucky weather.
People also come here who have some interest in the ACWABAWS, and that's a good thing.
I think in both cases the term pilgrim fits for many. I wouldn't reject the label when it comes to some of my own travels, at least in part.
Does anyone have the feeling of deja vu?
Is this the same article and stories from 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20, 30…? It seems like the last half a century is stuck in a global Groundhog Day.
In this 'carping diem' piece in NYT the term Americans is fully diversely descriptive or White Supremacist?
Show me a science-believing, reality-based community here in the US. I'm still trying to find one.
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why am I to doubt my eyes when I see yardsign = "we believe in science" etc.
The Ugly American speaks!
I spent most of my early life growing up in Europe, among Europeans...how much time have you spent there? They're just as ugly or uglier than we are.
I lived in Germany for 10 years, mostly with the military. You adapt, or not. If not, you stay on the US bases and pay $ for US stuff.
My family found it wonderful. We saw much of Europe, and experienced a lot.
I used to hop on my motorcycle, ride to northern Italy, and visit WWI battle sites in the Alps. Apparently, you cannot do that anymore. Pity. I met many wonderful people.
With some, we could not communicate directly, but there was always a way, as long as everyone is pleasant. Many wonderful memories, very few bad.
"Ugly Americans?" I suppose they exist. but I saw few.
Oh. and I am half Japanese, so I REALLY stood out.
Karlito,
Thanks for the recommendation. I am liking Lynne Olsen as a writer and I suspect that I will binge all her books. In addition to your suggestion, there are 3-4 others that look interesting.
Tina, Likewise thanks for the recommendation. Not familiar with Doenecke but just downloaded the Kindle sample of Storm on the Horizon. Rather pricey at $40 but let's see how it looks. I see he also wrote a number of books that look interesting.
John Henry
My wife and I spent a long day on a train from Milan to Venice, with a bunch of Italian soldierboys going on leave. It was April '78 and they wore wool, and stank.
We probably smelled only slightly better by then.
I feel blessed to have traveled quite a few years ago to places quiet then, but mobbed today.
Example: standing in the Great Pyramid's King's Chamber with only one other person, peering into the Pharaoh Khufu's empty sarcophagus.
No one else.
As quiet as...a tomb.
If I go to a small town in Mexico or India, I don't quiz the waiters on how cold their food freezers get, or how many times they filter their water. It's rude to rub in their faces that America has so much more money, and thus better infrastructure.
Likewise, in Europe, it's rude to rub the residents' faces in their lack of air conditioning or icemakers. They would have these things if they had as much money as we have here in the US.
I worked with a north-Mississippi farm boy who joined the USAF and stayed for 20 years. Retired with four or five stripes.
Said he had been stationed at Ramstein for over ten years in the 80s-90s and NEVER LEFT THE BASE.
Sad.
There is a lot more to it than just dressing up or down. Fashions are different. If you stay long enough to need a haircut, a local haircut goes a long way to make an American look British, for example.
I’m sorry.......I like scantily clothed women.
When did that go out of fashion?
Isn’t the same as ........rain is wet?
The Ugly American speaks!
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I found the equation to prove The Ugly American = Americans are to Europeans as Trump is to Americans.
tina trent at 3:29. Thanks for the shoutout to the great Justus Doenecke.Had several courses and tutorials with him. If you'd been at NC in the late 60s/early 70's you would have also had the benefit of George Mayer, whose deftly opinionated history of the Republican Party up to 1964 still bears reading.
That sort of teaching is no longer available at the institution that was once the Harvard of the Sarasota Bradenton Airport Authority District.
"...everyone talks about the 'free healthcare' in Europe, but if you dig into it you will likely find that healthcare standards in Europe and the US are very different. In Spain, for instance, the medical procedures are prepaid via payroll taxes, but not the hospital meals or patient assistance or most other things that are included in US hospital stays - your family is expected to do the patient nursing, provide the food and the like or you pay extra above the cost of medical care."
Seems like a fair and acceptable (and affordable!) trade-off compared to the often bankrupting cost of medical care in the US, even for patients who have "health insurance." Also, all but the ignorant know that "free healthcare" is not free, but is paid for via taxes, just as other socially necessary and beneficial services and infrastructures are, such as highways, bridges, reservoirs, fire and police services, etc., (as well as some other less necessary or nonbeneficial projects are--except to the private owners--e.g., sports stadiums).
"I spent most of my early life growing up in Europe, among Europeans...how much time have you spent there? They're just as ugly or uglier than we are."
Did I say otherwise? We're animals: selfish, self-centered, self-serving, stinky, suspicious, and fearful animals. However, we can learn adult rules of courtesy and social proprieties in order to at least try to accommodate our neighbors' house rules when we are visiting them, just as we would like our neighbors to try to accommodate our house rules when they visit us.
Narayanan said...
why am I to doubt my eyes when I see yardsign = "we believe in science" etc.
The popularity of Oprah, a psychic shop on almost every corner (in almost every town) and the fact people are still, regularly, claiming to discover UFOs when nothing of the kind exists
Gahrie said...
"They're just as ugly or uglier than we are."
Wait until you see 300 pound Germans wearing speedo's, or notice most Frenchman look like they should be wearing pocket protectors with their plaid shirts and eyeglasses.
bobby said...
"In Europe, it's rude to rub the residents' faces in their lack of air conditioning or icemakers. They would have these things if they had as much money as we have here in the US."
You don't understand how French contrariness works
Narayanan said...
"I found the equation to prove The Ugly American = Americans are to Europeans as Trump is to Americans."
Um, millions of Americans love Trump, so your equation is bogus. How did you miss that?
Robert Cook said...
"Seems like a fair and acceptable (and affordable!) trade-off compared to the often bankrupting cost of medical care in the US, even for patients who have "health insurance.""
We get the best care in the world. That's why everybody in Yurp (who can) comes here for their cancer treatments or heart operations. It is too expensive, but part of that is Americans demanding the best of care, even when it's hopeless.
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