Writes Euny Hong, a journalist and "culture critic," in "In Paris, I Get Judged on What I Speak, Not How I Look" (NYT).
The essay begins "I moved from New York back to Paris in the summer of 2020, partly to get away from the spate of anti-Asian assaults that had emerged after the Covid pandemic." I couldn't figure out where Hong grew up. She cites her "Korean heritage." If she went "back to Paris," does that mean she grew up there? Does she sound like a native speaker in French? In English? In any case, there's a lot of subjectivity here. How do you know why other people treat you the way they do? How do you know what they really think of you? But why not, if you can, move where you feel that people like you?
By the way, I don't think New York City projects a feeling of being loved at anyone. There are other places in America where you might find people much more open and embracing, but you might not get the kind of journalist/culture critic work you want. And, again, it's quite subjective. If you're inclined to think the people around here hate me, it might not matter what they do.
In that light, if you love the French language and delight in the fluidity this gives you in Paris, that's a good reason to live in Paris. And if English rubs you the wrong way — "aggressive," 'hegemonic" — then go ahead, in your own life decisions — if you can — opt out of the English language environment.
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63 comments:
In French everything is gendered and there’s only two. Bad on you NYT…
This woman does realize that for hundreds of years the language of international relations, warfare, and colonialism was French, not English, doesn't she?
336. This case is similar to the one in which someone imagines the one could not think a sentence with the remarkable word order of German or Latin just as it stands. One first has to think it, and then one arranges the words in that queer order. (A French politician once wrote that it was a peculiarity of the French language that in it words occur in the order in which one thinks them.)
- Wittgenstein
You are not responsible for what people think about you.
What is a "haunted" language, exactly?
Also, English is not a beautiful language, at least not to anyone who has heard French (or IMO, the mellifluous Zulu...).
Also, this article is, at its base, about the ever so tiresome "white male" chip that this author carries on her shoulder.
"How do you know why other people treat you the way they do?"
Not so very long ago I, a 70+ white man, was waiting to board an elevator. The doors opened. There stood a 20something woman, riding alone.
The look of horror on her face as I began to board made me step back without boarding, and the doors closed. There's little doubt that if I'd been a black man, I'd have thought she was fearful of me because of my skin color.
All the former colonial subjects of French hegemony around the world might disagree that English sounds more hegemonic.
"Look at the world, revolving around ME !"
Comment est-ce qu’on dit “hopeless self-absorption” en français?
“Trop precieuse,” peut-etre?
Anyone who writes "hegemonic" regarding English or the UK or the USA is stuck in a 20th Century ideological framework. France got beaten down in the 20th Century, but were big fans of empire and colonialism and hegemony before that. See the histories of Haiti and Jamaica, many African countries, and many island nations.
Hegemony today: China and manufacturing.
"This woman does realize that for hundreds of years the language of international relations, warfare, and colonialism was French, not English, doesn't she?"
Why would you doubt that she may? A "softer" language is probably a better choice for a "language of international relations, warfare and colonialism" than a language that is "aggressive and hegemonic...." America hasn't figured out that making threats (overt or implied) to keep the peace or achieve a desired international agreement is not diplomacy.
"You are not responsible for what people think about you."
Oh, in many cases, you are.
“The French don’t care what they do actually, as long as they pronounce it properly.”
- Professor Henry Higgins in “My Fair Lady”
It is a language that connects me to my true and best self.... It allows [me] to complain all day long...
French is a beautiful language, and France has a beautiful culture, but like Regency England, where and about which Jane Austin wrote her beautiful novels, it's based on being at the top of a pyramid, at the bottom of which were the hellish abominations that go along with resource extraction from countries that are rich, except for the people in them, who are poor, as their wealth is shipped off to Europe.
Niger is kicking out the French right now for this kind of thing, and we may be making the same mistake we made in Viet Nam, which is to start another war to pull France's chestnuts out of the fire.
In my limited experience Europeans are charmed when an American tries to speak their language. In Germany, Austria, Italy, and Croatia they don’t even mind if your American accent is heavy. The French have a reputation for being a bit different. Feedback from any Francophiles?
“ The look of horror on her face as I began to board made me step back without boarding, and the doors closed.”
She was afraid you’d step in, turn, lean down and say, “Bon jour!”
This woman does realize that for hundreds of years the language of international relations, warfare, and colonialism was French, not English, doesn't she?
Indeed. When William invaded and conquered England in 1066, he and the ruling class spoke French for generations before any of them bothered to learn English.
You go poo-poo, la-la, oui-oui all day long.
It don't sound "male" to me
--- "culture critic,"
= someone with elite credentials who can package up her acceptable opinions in such a way as to be a little different while still serving as a useful tool.
Does she have a Wikipedia page? Why yes, of course she does! Her first 12 years growing up were in New Jersey.
America hasn't figured out that making threats (overt or implied) to keep the peace or achieve a desired international agreement is not diplomacy.
Still the guy who wrote this defends Joe Biden at every opportunity, and condemns the one modern president who didn't start any new wars.
If you can imagine that white people hate you, you are oppressed. And if you are oppressed, you are morally better.
In re: French Hegemony --
The term "lingua franca" refers to a language used in common by many nations and peoples as a sort of "universal language." Currently, English is arguably the "lingua franca" of the world. However, the term "lingua franca" quite literally means "French Language. Funny, that.
Currently, France is the 6th largest (by area) country in the world, spanning (IIRC) 13 time zones. A lot of that area is water, as most of its land holdings outside of mainland Europe are islands anymore, but the fact remains.... France is a LOT larger than most people realize (and its longest land border is with *Brazil* -- yes, French Guiana is considered to be "mainland France," and is part of the EU, uses the Euro, and everything). And yet its current holdings are much reduced from France at its height. For all that the Brits like to claim that the sun never set on its Empire, it arguably *still doesn't* set on France.
But, you know... America bad, French good, or something.
Now do German.
I was changing planes at LAX and got stuck behind some woman and her daughter that decided blocking the path was their right. I asked sever times, "Excuse me, pardon me, Please let me through..." etc. Nothing. So then I said, "Excusez-Moi, Madam." She gets all flustered, "Oh, I'm so sorry." as she scurries out of the way. She apparently surrendered to the French...
I’ve been bit&hed out by a Canadian woman on a ski mountain before.
Didn’t sound beautiful, to me.
To be fair, I had no business being up there- I called in to a radio show and won a free snowboarding lesson. It was hell.
Our French is dying out in the Kingdom. The immigrating Québécois from of old are almost all gone, along w/their Faith and work ethic.
C’est dommage.
So she left NYC to get away from anti-Asian hatred, most anti-Asian crimes turned out to be black on Asian. So she was going to Paris where there are far fewer blacks than NYC. But she can’t bring herself to say so. Or to say she was running away from progressive prosecutors who would dismiss charges against her black attackers. She’s just a refugee from progressivism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfqw_ukTlu8
I know it's uncouth to refer to the NY Post as opposed to the proper NY Times, but here's a news item from yesterday:
"A teenage girl allegedly slugged an Asian woman riding a Manhattan subway train with her family last week and attacked a witness who was recording her behavior in what police are investigating as a possible hate crime.
The still-at-large teen was sitting with two other young girls aboard a southbound F train before she allegedly launched the assaults as the train was approaching the West 4th Street station around 8 p.m. Thursday, according to police and a report.
The trio of girls were shouting and cursing at the family before one allegedly pulled the hair of the 51-year-old mom, punched her repeatedly and made an “anti-ethnic remark” towards the victim, who is Asian, police said."
Video at their site, in case you want to confirm your confirmation bias.
There's a reason why French is considered the language of romance. And french poetry is very beautiful. And written French is also precise and has a clarity English doesn't have.
>Big Mike said...
In my limited experience Europeans are charmed when an American tries to speak their language. In Germany, Austria, Italy, and Croatia they don’t even mind if your American accent is heavy. The French have a reputation for being a bit different. Feedback from any Francophiles?<
OK, here ya go.
The French thing is overdone - especially the "rude Parisians" part of it. I've been to France many times and in all those times I've never been treated rudely. I'm sure it will happen eventually, of course. But geez, if you go up to a Parisian and say, "Hey, where's the 'Loover'?" and then say it more loudly when he doesn't understand you and then act exasperated, don't be surprised when he acts disgusted. OTOH, if you go up to anyone in Paris and try to ask your question in French, or try to pronounce it from the phrasebook, or hell, just read it from the phrasebook however you make it sound, I guarantee you that 99 out of a hundred of those "rude Parisians" will fall all over you trying to help you - more and more frequently in recent years, in English. Show a little respect. You're in their country, they have the loveliest language on the planet - throw 'em a bone and use their language as best you can. They ain't askin' much.
(That is true of any country you visit. I've long made it a practice in all the countries I've visited to memorize four or five basic phrases and use them when you approach a local. They will be so flattered and you will quickly have a helpful friend.)
"Why would you doubt that she may?"
Because the way her sentence is structured she sounds like a Gangnam bimbo airhead who learned most of her woke grade school level history from the 1619 project.
That's why.
"Still the guy who wrote this defends Joe Biden at every opportunity...."
Don't make up shit. (That's nicer than calling you a liar.)
"If you can imagine that white people hate you, you are oppressed. And if you are oppressed, you are morally better."
What if you are oppressed and you know white people hate you?
Oh please. Many, many more whites, and many, many, many more blacks were assaulted. The media just played up the Asian angle, as she does. She is also not honest about the race of the majority of the assailants of all three groups.
... it articulates the seemingly contradictory forces of logic and emotions like no other language I know. It allows people to complain all day long....
She doesn't know from Yiddish?
Hegemonic? The commercial world (at least until the Chinese take over--if they ever do) is called the Anglosphere for a reason sweetcakes.
French is merely barbaric, corrupted Latin. They don’t pronounce half the letters in their words and slur the ones they do. That makes it very inefficient. Compare the French and English instructions for a cell phone or something; the French will be twice as long. That’s why they lost all those wars—the Brits or Germans could order two attacks while the French commanders were still mumbling.
She is also smugly gleeful when a waiter places her and a friend ahead of English speakers in a line to get a seat because they speak better French. So she's the real supremacist, and a rude one too.
France can keep her. She seems like a very unpleasant and unaware liar. Also, you're welcome for our men saving your asses from North Korea.
An attractive face and sharp mind are life's Advance to Go.
Stop complaining.
"Like no other language I know." Fair enough. What other languages do you know? Finnish?
Tagalog?
French was the lingua franca not because it was more beautiful or more clear than other languages bit because French was the language of the most populous and powerful continental country, for about 1000 years.
With one of the world's biggest populations, occupying a productive and centrally located region, they kicked ass and took names. That's why the language spread.
French was not the language of warfare because of some mythical mystical fitness but because the French set the pace and called the tune.
"She spent her childhood between the US and Seoul, Korea, and has also lived in Frankfurt and Berlin, Germany."
Considering that she's also fluent in German I'd be interested in her take on that ugly, demanding, command language.
This is my second chance today to say bad things abut Germans. Thanks for the opportunity.
Alles klar!
"The French have a reputation for being a bit different. Feedback from any Francophiles?"
Not from me, but from my wife who lived near Toulouse for about 4 years before we were married (immersed among French speakers). We visited France together a while back and I learned from her then that Parisians can be more snotty about it all. She told me about her early experiences where she would speak in French and they would respond in English. She called it being "Englished." When we visited, her French was a little rusty, so the first few days she was Englished, but not after that.
French also do like to practice their English. In southern France and generally outside the cities, the French are extremely gracious and like to help out even a poor French speaker (me) with welcoming in French.
I think it's less France, really, and the general difference between urban and non-urban folks most anywhere.
This article is a model case of generalizing one's own particular experiences.
Which is very, very common really. Humans think we have much more common experiences than we do, and have a much bigger perspective. We don't, so we generalize our experiences as being true for everyone and think they're stupid if they have different experiences.
The French have rather atrocious history of colonization, likely worse than the British in how they left the countries.
Even people from abroad end up in New York and become denizens of the cultural bubble. The author may well have felt more welcome in my adopted hometown, Houston, where Chinese restaurants have Mexicans cooking in the kitchen, and an Iranian immigrant salvage yard owner cursed out an errant supplier in Spanish. Maybe someday people will realize the Lower East Side culture is isolated and provincial. Not to mention all the Nigetians, Malaysians, Indonesians, Angolan, Vietnamese, to name a few, from the energy industry who end up in Houston one way or another. New York "tolerance" is overrated.
"So she left NYC to get away from anti-Asian hatred, most anti-Asian crimes turned out to be black on Asian"
ALMOST ALL were black on Asian. A white on Asian attack was almost unheard of.
The newspaper skips over that.
Of course.
Paddy O said...
"This article is a model case of generalizing one's own particular experiences. Which is very, very common really. Humans think we have much more common experiences than we do, and have a much bigger perspective. We don't, so we generalize our experiences as being true for everyone and think they're stupid if they have different experiences."
Dr. Evil: The details of my life are quite inconsequential.
Therapist (Carrie Fisher): Oh no, please, please, let's hear about your childhood.
Dr Evil: Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it.
Therapist: You know, we have to stop.
- From Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery (1997)
The essay begins "I moved from New York back to Paris in the summer of 2020, partly to get away from the spate of anti-Asian assaults that had emerged after the Covid pandemic."
She lies like a Parisian rug, of course. She knows perfectly well that the only people committing "anti-Asian assaults" in NYC were Negroes. I'm sure she had sense enough to avoid street Negroes like the Chinese plague when she was in NYC. She's probably in for a surprise, though, in Paris. Paris is not what it used to be.
My French is virtually nonexistent these days and I've never been particularly comfortable speaking in French anyhow. But I do know the feeling of feeling more comfortable in a different language. In my case, though, that's because since my early childhood it was drummed into me that it was necessary to conceal one's true thoughts and honest opinions when speaking English to others (or at least, to Americans). So even today although the reputation of the languages and cultures is roughly the opposite, I feel much more comfortable that I can speak freely and frankly in Japanese than in English.
Obviously, one still has to adapt to circumstance. But it's the difference between being able to speak frankly in private, and having grown up being told you mustn't ever say you dislike X or don't want to do Y, or that Z makes you want to kill yourself, even in private, so that the crimestop reflex kicks in whenever you have the impulse to be candid, and honesty and directness feel like an awful taboo even if you power through and say what you want to say. It's the difference between being able to speak freely sometimes and never.
But in part, that's just the liberation of being a foreigner. Even if I were as fluent in Korean as I am in English and Japanese, I would doubtless have felt the same pressure to put on the false, smiling mask as I do in English.
"Comment est-ce qu’on dit “hopeless self-absorption” en français?"
ORGUEUIL [pr, ~ oar-GOY]
I lived for 15 years in a French-speaking country and am near-native fluent. All over France outside of Paris, I'm taken as a native speaker with a regional accent, especially in rural areas where we speak "farm". I could be barely conversant in French, but by speaking "farm" ... out comes the wine, cheese, and bread. And I help, competently, with chores. The connection is solid.
Paris is another world, obnoxious, self-absorbed, and mostly hated by large swaths of France. As with "pride" in French, we have two words for "language". "Langue" [lit 'tongue'] refers to German, Swahili, Spanish, and so on. "Langage" [no English equivalent] OTOH is all about what you're saying and the life-experience behind it. Huge difference.
She gets along in Paris because she has the same obnoxious self-entitled attitude as they do. She mistakes that for her ability to speak 'la langue française". Unsurprising.
There are good reasons for hate and derision. Just because your finely tuned tribal instincts detect from a snippet of an article that someone is different from you is not on the list.
Love thy neighbor as thyself, someone said. I don't think he meant to include a geographical or ethnic limitation. Except for the Germans, of course.
Or to be less sanctimonious: Damn, turn down the Grump just a little bit will you. Jeeze.
The world is going to be a lot more vicious when America decides to stop keeping the peace. The last 75 years will be remembered as a high point for the many nations who do not have the resources to defend themselves.
Growing up in a place where French was heard as much as English, you tend to take it in by osmosis. I was fully fluent by the end of high school. Sadly, it's a perishable skill, and I don't know if I'll ever get it back. I miss the feel of it on my tongue, as you do have to sometimes slur the endings and beginnings of words which gives them a melodic sound.
I never had any issues with Parisians when visiting, but then I always tried to use my rusty French skills as best I could. I found within short order I could converse enough to get by, thanks to a few glasses of red wine.
One time my husband and I were having dinner in a rather touristy restaurant, and our waiter asked us where we were visiting from. When we told him Boston, he was eager to share his love of basketball with us, and that Larry Bird was his favorite player. I don't know whether it was true or not, but we enjoyed the moment. In fact, when we left, the waiter presented us with an umbrella with the restaurant's logo on it. Glad for it since it was absolutely pouring.
France as a nation is aggressive and hegemonic. In history as it is today.
If French is such a wonderful language, how come it's one of the few that have passed laws to prevent foreign words and slang from being used?
Ice Nine - "OTOH, if you go up to anyone in Paris and try to ask your question in French, or try to pronounce it from the phrasebook, or hell, just read it from the phrasebook however you make it sound, I guarantee you that 99 out of a hundred of those "rude Parisians" will fall all over you trying to help you - more and more frequently in recent years, in English. "
Same in Korea, at least it was back in the '80s when we'd deploy to ROK Air Force Bases to run airlift for Team Spirit exercises, etc. The ROK bases were usually by towns and cities that didn't see many Americans. If you went to the market and spoke English, they'd pretty much ignore you, but if you tried to speak Korean, and then tell them 'Hongul mok chock-um' (I speak very little Korean...) after they started to machine-gun talking to you, they would go out of their way find someone who spoke English. As you said - show some respect. I learned to say in Korean, here, there, where, how much, and could count up to 10. That was all you needed to say to get the conversation going.
I thought English was no longer being taught with hegemonics. Its all whole language, no?
“The French don’t care what they do actually, as long as they pronounce it properly.”
And you aren’t likely to do so. My partner has what is called a “French tongue”. She had it clipped when young, but still has problems with some words in English, over 60 years later. Her father had it, and had it clipped. Her paternal aunt never had it clipped, and would have problems being understood, in English, when she was excited. Partner checked the tongues of her kids when they were born, and had her son’s tongue clipped. And, finally, he had his kids’ tongue’s checked young, and they were fine, with normal tongues. It was a pretty persistent gene.
Perhaps alone among American Tourists, I've gone to Paris 3 times and never encountered the infamous "Rude Parisian".
Frankly, if I lived in Paris, I too would get quite grumpy over the millions upon millions of tourists charging into my city every year, clogging up the streets, asking for directions in bad french, and generally being a bore and nuisance.
And then are 'muricans, who talk in REALLY LOUD VOICES about UNCLE ABE'S BLADDER OPERATION on buses and trains, and often act like entitled spoiled brats.
Hong was born in New Jersey, lived in Korea from age 12 to 18, educated at Yale. She is fluent in English, Korean, French, and German. And she's a convert to Judaism
@Joanne Jacobs
Thanks for the info!
"If French is such a wonderful language, how come it's one of the few that have passed laws to prevent foreign words and slang from being used?"
Because speakers of French want to keep it wonderful!
"Because speakers of French want to keep it wonderful."
Speakers of French--outside the Academie Francais--find foreign words wonderful enough to use despite official harrumphings from the French equivalents of Robert Cook.
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