The only way to overcome "cheating fears" is to redefine what "cheating" is in the age of the chatbot. That's what "flipped my whole way of thinking" means.
August 24, 2023
"Beth Clearman, a veteran honors English teacher at a local middle school... asked ChatGPT to produce six-word 'memoirs' of well-known literary characters."
"The A.I. chatbot promptly manufactured descriptions like: 'lavish parties, unrequited love, green light' and 'arrow’s aim, rebellion’s face, Mockingjay’s fire.' Ms. Clearman said she planned to ask students to match the names of protagonists with their chatbot bios. (Spoiler alert: Jay Gatsby, Katniss Everdeen).
Originally leery of A.I. chatbots, Ms. Clearman said she now planned to use ChatGPT 'so much!' with her writing students.
'I’ve flipped my whole way of thinking,' she said."
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21 comments:
Anyone who didn’t know it was Gatsby and Everdeen wouldn’t have it spoiled as they wouldn’t know either book(s). In that regard, I see value here in that you’ll have to have at least read the books to get the answers.
Cheating? Hahaha. My students at one inner city school where I taught ( Civics, American History were so apathetic that if I caught one openly cheating I would hold them up to the class as having initiative and award extra credit. Actually, I gave extra credit for a last name on a turned in paper. My struggle was real.
You got to get good at formulating questions.
Ima be a miner.
I guessed Harry Potter for the first one based on the silliness of Mockingjay as a clue for the second. Honors English has changed since my days.
My students refuse to read and rely on google to get the answers to questions based on the reading. I get 32 identical answers to most questions, and even the wrong answers are identical. They just cut and paste and don't try to hide what they're doing by paraphrasing.
It's both scary and depressing.
I wonder if she'll use it to write the speech she gives when she and the union go on strike for more money?
So, the teacher was too lazy to do this herself?
I suppose if the teachers are cheating, it is somewhat difficult to police the students.
you've SOLD me!
i WANT to see a movie, where Katniss Everdeen moves across the bay from Gatsby,
Lavish Parties and Squirrel hunting Ensue!!
Will Gatsby forget about that pathetic LOSER Daisy, and MARRY Katniss???
Will Katniss just SHOOT Tom Buchanan? And Take Daisy for herself? (LGBTGINFYCMR!)
Of Course NOT! Jay and Katniss, sitting in a Tree; hitting Every squirrel you can see!
I mean, there's no danger of cheating when it's the teacher who's using it. ChatGPT is just a tool. She could have done that herself, but the AI makes it easier.
The concern from her end is not cheating but that the AI will produce nonsense. Presumably she checks its work, though.
I've always been in favor of open-book tests.
It's not what you remember, it's what you do with information and data whether from memory or from "sources".
After I retired I was an adjunct professor teaching advanced IT classes at the local university’s School of Business for a few years. The students had cell phones and there was no practical way to stop them from using them during tests. It creates a challenge to come up with test questions that force them to apply what they’ve hopefully learned, versus questions whose answers they can readily look up using Google. Teachers well below the university level are going to likewise be challenged to come up with homework assignments where the students cannot benefit from having ChatGPT — and most of them will fail.
"That's what "flipped my whole way of thinking" means."
I have a feeling that her whole way of thinking is not tied down very well.
We no longer have an education system, so why would I be concerned that kids aren't learning anything because of ChatGPT? All they were learning before was leftwing propaganda.
..32 identical answers to most questions, and even the wrong answers are identical. They just cut and paste and don't try to hide what they're doing by paraphrasing..
back ten years ago, when gilbar was dating a assistant professor; she unhappily said:
"I told them that any quotes HAD TO BE referenced.. So they referenced them as 'from google'."
She couldn't understand, that her students THOUGHT they were doing what she wanted. She TRIED to get them to realize that google GOT those quotes.. From SOMEWHERE; but it was when i talk to the trees*.
i talk to the trees* but they don't listen to me. I talk to the stars; but they never hear me. The breeze hasn't time, to stop and hear what i say.. I talk to them All.. In Vain
A couple months ago we talked a bit about round vs square bottles and a Simon Winchester book. I mentioned to my editor at Packaging Digest magazine as an interesting twist on the question. It apparently ticked her fancy because a couple weeks ago she asked me to write an article about it.
Article is here https://www.packagingdigest.com/optimization/should-your-bottle-be-round-or-square
When I got the assignment I mentioned it to my son. He went to ChatGPT and about 15 minutes later sent me a fairly decent article on round vs square bottles. I could have spent 30 minutes rewriting it and gotten a pretty good article for submission. Honest old schooler that I am, I deleted it and wrote my article from scratch. It took me a couple hours total.
He thinks his article was better. I told him the important thing was that I got paid for mine.
I am debating whether to tell my editor this story when I see her next month in Las Vegas. I am thinking not.
However, it did give me an idea. For a dozen years I have been tinkering with the idea of a series of books of capsule biographies. Each will be about 1500 words, perhaps 50 per book. I think I have a hook to make them interesting.
I've written a few but doing the research then the writing is a pain in the ass and I've not made much progress.
So I asked ChatGPT to give me a 500 word bio of a person. Then a 500 word article on their main accomplishment then 500 words of trivia/interesting facts. So now the hard part is done. I can take the 3 articles, blend them together do some editing and polishing and I will have what I am looking for in a book chapter.
So now I am thinking the hardest part of writing these books will be selecting the people to include in them.
Gonna get started as soon as I finish my "Secrets of Liquid Filling Machinery" book. It is written, I am doing one final editing run through, still need to add a few pictures and get permissions for other, but hopefully available via Ann's portal as a stocking stuffer.
I think AI is way overhyped (I wrote about it here https://www.packagingdigest.com/artificial-intelligence/4-growth-areas-artificial-intelligence-within-packaging) But I do think it has some really cool uses.
john Henry
Blogger Gahrie said...
My students refuse to read and rely on google to get the answers to questions based on the reading. I get 32 identical answers to most questions, and even the wrong answers are identical. They just cut and paste and don't try to hide what they're doing by paraphrasing.
I used to teach a graduate course in packaging at an engineering school. One of the assignments was a research paper.
One student copied and pasted an entire article, word for word, on robots out of a magazine where I was a contributing editor at the time. When I read it, I thought it looked familiar. I quickly found it.
It really pissed me off. First that he would try this on but especially because he picked a magazine that I was connected with. It insulted my intelligence. The program director and I discussed it and decided the best thing to do was give him an F rather than throw him out of the course so it would stay in his transcript. I personally thought he should be thrown out of the program.
I had lots of other problems with cut and paste over the years but nothing so blatant as this.
My policy on anything unattributed was a 0 on the assignment for a first offense, an F for the course and don't come back for a 2nd offense. Cut and paste was fine if properly attributed but I had a guideline of no more than 10% (or so) of the total verbiage.
John Henry
AI is heroin.
Darkisland said...
So now I am thinking the hardest part of writing these books will be selecting the people to include in them.
and THAT is going to be a Hard Thing for AI to master.
sure! it get pick 50 people that people are talking about or searching for, or writing about..
BUT want you WANT, are 50 people that people AREN'T talking about.. That they'll WANT to talk about once they learn about them. i don't see how AI could do this.
Darkisland wrote the book (well, the magazine article), on Round Bottles or Square?...
https://www.packagingdigest.com/optimization/should-your-bottle-be-round-or-square
Incredibly interesting John!
I'd noticed, that Olive Oil comes in square bottles.. Didn't know WHY..
Still don't; but NOW can try and guess
a) shipping from spain is EXPENSIVE!
or
b) people think having the label face the front is COOL!!
Gilbar,
Actually I did write the book. If not exactly on round vs square bottles, on how to fill, cap, label, carton and case them (and much more) my Packaging Machinery Handbook is available via Ann's portal.
Two other books "Machinery Matters" and "secrets of Buying Packaging Machinery" wit Rich Frain are also available. Or you can download free pdf versions at www.fraingroup.com/ebooks
Scotes of white papers and videos I've done for them are at www.fraingroup.com/resources
John Henry
Ai looks like it can help with the people as well. The hook for the books is that the people in each are spread around the world, are 18th to 21st century mainly, and engaged in a variety of endeavors but all have something in common.
I've compiled some lists but may not have enough to choose from yet.
So I asked chat gpt to give me a list of people with the charitaistic and it spit out hundreds of names. Some already on my list, some I'd heard of but were not on my list and some I'd never heard of.
So now I am spoiled for choice.
But I take your point. I don't think it can pick the 50 out of 200 that are most interesting.
Otoh, as simple as writingthe first draft is "give me 500 word bio on each of the 200" it may make it a lot easier to choose 75, do a first draft on each using Chatgpt then pick the best 50 for final treatment.
I am really looking forward to getting into this project. As much for the process as for the book itself.
John Henry
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