August 11, 2023
"Asked if he was warned about the fire, one Lahaina resident [said] 'Oh, hell no'... [H]e fled with his wife when they saw flames about 500 yards from their house."
"He said the fire quickly closed in on them as they drove through thick black smoke — and finally to safety. 'Nobody saw this coming,' he said.
Claire Kent, who works in Lahaina taking tourists out on a boat off the coast, said she began to panic around 3:30 p.m. when she saw a billowing cloud of black smoke and heard an explosion. A neighbor told her three nearby gas stations were on fire and urged her to pack a bag to flee. As she and several friends tried to drive out of town, she said, she saw people trying to escape on foot, some holding children.
Even then, said Ms. Kent, she had still not been notified of any need to evacuate — save for a shirtless man on a bicycle along the road who was screaming: 'You have to get out!'... Robbie Wares, who has lived in Lahaina for decades, said the only warning she got was from someone — it was not clear who it was — shouting out of a moving vehicle that passed by her house...."
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56 comments:
What a nightmare. Like hell on earth.
What happened to the Emergency Alert System on your phone and radio?
My prayers go out to the people of Lahaina who have suffered in this disaster. To the families of those who died. And to the people without insurance who have lost their homes. God bless, and peace be upon you. Neighbors, love them and help them.
Having visited a few times it doesn’t surprise me, they were too busy sitting on their surf boards in the water and fleecing tourists at the rental car return…
I’d love to see a story of how people banded together but locals all seemed like that Hawaiian judge or that crazy lady in Congress, whats her name…
If you're waiting for the government to tell you to run when the flames are advancing upon you then you kinda need to be removed from the gene pool.
This is how our species advances.
Without knowing any of the facts, my guess is eco-terrorism on these fires, but if anybody knows different, I am happy to listen.
Is it only a warning if it comes from some government official?
The state and local governments seem to have been singularly incapable of dealing with a major emergency. What if the emergency was a tsunami? Are they set up for that, at least? Haleakalā I’d dormant now, but volcanologists agree that it won’t necessarily stay that way. Do they have plans?
Buckwheathikes said...
If you're waiting for the government to tell you to run when the flames are advancing upon you then you kinda need to be removed from the gene pool.
You’re forgetting about the wind in those islands. Wind makes fire move very fast.
Let’s see whether FEMA under Biden’s leadership is as effective as FEMA under Trump’s. We know Trump’s administration did a good job with emergency management because the newsmedia never posted any stories about it — they would have been eager to do so had his administration stumbled.
@Dave Begley (5:48), damned good question, sir.
They have tsunami alert sirens in HI. Not used.
What, Nature didn't provide a good Evacuation Notice with sufficient time for all to hear it, make up their minds, and, if they did, to pack, and drive off down the highway? With police carefully orchestrating traffic flows so everything went right?
Hard to believe.
The National Emergency Alarm Repeater (NEAR) was a civilian emergency warning device in the United States. It was a 2–3" (5–7.5 cm) square box designed to plug into a standard power outlet to receive a special signal sent over the electric power transmission lines. Research and testing for the NEAR program was developed in 1956 during the Cold War to supplement the existing siren warning systems and radio broadcasts in the event of a nuclear attack.
Wikipedia
See also, CONELRAD.
“What happened to the Emergency Alert System on your phone and radio?”
The closer you are to traditional fire country, the better the alert system, because you know that it can be a life and death situation. We spend half the year in NW MT, where there are usually fires this time of year. When they tell us to evacuate, we do. And I have escape routes planned in three directions, along with a list of what to take. We follow close by fires carefully, and compare fire sizes with friends in other heavy fire areas. On the flip side, I have an old GF (from 50 years ago) who had to be evacuated by air, along with her 100 year old mother, in Cave Creek/Carefree, AZ several years ago. And there were a lot of stupid acting people in Superior/Louisville/Lafayette, CO last year. How could a fire affect them, with almost no trees in sight? These are some of the smartest people in the country (it’s right along the US 36 tech corridor, overlooking Boulder).
The funny thing about that fire in AZ I mentioned, is that they probably would have reacted appropriately to a Flash Flood warning. Step son, east of Tucson, had his pickup totaled out in a flash flood a couple years ago. They had to drive through a wash every day to get into and out of their property (same with that old GF). And his pickup was fairly high off the ground. Then, the wash filled up, and he didn’t make it across. It’s not just the desert, of course - I quickly learned to respect the high water signs when I lived in Austin.
"The state and local governments seem to have been singularly incapable of dealing with a major emergency."
Government wasn't able to manage the disaster competently? Clearly, the lesson here is that a bigger government with a larger budget is necessary.
“You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.”
I can tell you from experience that local government in Hawaii is 100% crap. All D, too. 100% D.
Lazy, wasteful, lame...
I know an artist who lives there. She has a husband and 2 young children. I have no idea if they made it.
No internet, no social media... no phones..
Here is Clint Hanson from a day or two ago. His family has the best web-cam on Maui.
(volume button lower right)
Tim in Vermont. Probably not.
Maui is suffering terrible drought conditions ... (typical thru the summer - but worse over the last few years)
The wind did this.
I can also tell you that there is really only one main road that carries people in an out of town.
There is a Lahaina by-pass above the town, but that will not help much when needing to escape fast via highway.
the lack of knowledge on this fire, and Hawaii shown by these so called conservative people is fucking astounding.
I've live on Maui for 40 years. Have friends who are now homeless, and jobless
From the time people stepped out of their homes, to them running for thier lives, was a matter of moments.Many of the victims were literally incinerated by a fire that was pushed by 70mph winds.
So to the snide comments, exhibiting a complete ignorance of the facts, fuck you. seriously.
I understand anns rule on personal attacks. but making light of erasing, down to the foundations, of a town of 12000 people isn't fucking funny at all.
Pathetic how self righteous and vintictive some of these comments are. reminds me of the left wishng death on Barron or whoever.
So idiots here, don't let facts get in the way of you being asshats.
Hey Fred, there's a huge wall of smoke with the red glow of flames on the horizon. Smoke is getting bad, real bad. And those hurricane winds are coming right at us. Should we be scared? Should we turn on the radio?
Nope. The gummint would come lead us by the hand if there was real danger.
Let’s see whether FEMA under Biden’s leadership is as effective as FEMA under Trump’s. We know Trump’s administration did a good job with emergency management because the newsmedia never posted any stories about it — they would have been eager to do so had his administration stumbled.
=========
with FJB what are the incentives?
they would have been eager [NOT] to do so had his administration stumbled.
on an island where to evacuate?
did islander ignore tossing requisite virgins into volacano?
Same as the Paradise, California firestorm: Authorities failed to warn residents even though they had nearly two hours to do so.
Situational awareness was lacking if you actually think no one thought this was coming.
Embers from grass fires 50 mph wind-blown into wooden house eaves, so house after house burned down. It's a rather sudden thing.
I spent a couple nights in Lahaina and didn't see any attraction, in fact all of Hawaii for that matter. Sunny and warm with ocean everywhere, is all. Few roads owing to mountains, so it's easy to get trapped I guess. A decent place needs a network of roads with hamburger restaurants spotted all over so there's always someplace else interesting to go on a bike ride.
Business trip waystop on the way to the other end of the Pacific Missile Range.
Lahaina has a famous tree that I found ordinary. It likely didn't survive, so a new tree is needed too.
They have tsunami alert sirens in HI. Not used.
At a guess, because people would have run in the wrong direction. But couldn’t they have sent police cars with loud speakers (or are the police cars not equipped with loudspeakers in Hawaii)? Also did they try Amber Alerts or, as you asked, the Emergency Alert System?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e3DVC07L-U How did it happen so fast? This helps to explain it.
You’re forgetting about the wind in those islands. Wind makes fire move very fast.
Plus, there is really only one road out of town, the one that runs along the coast - once that was blocked by smoke or fire, there really was nowhere to run but into the sea.
What happened to the Emergency Alert System on your phone and radio?
It must only work in Hawaii when a disgruntled member of the government resistance wants to scare everyone into thinking Trump prompted a nuclear strike retaliation.
This is just a mere wildfire. It is a far lesser threat to life than a President Trump.
Dave Begley said...
"What happened to the Emergency Alert System on your phone and radio?"
The people responsible for implementing those things in an emergency fucked up. Wanna take a guess as to who that would be?
Most likely this was arson.
Doesn't seem that sirens were activated. Cell alerts were sent but service seems to have been down already
Yeah, take responsibility for your own safety. If the government functionaries are telling you there is no danger, you should still prepare and watch even if you trust them enough not to go. But if they say nothing, it means you are on your own. People with the "authority" freeze up, see Uvalde, or the school shooting in Florida where the person with rank held back responders.
These people would be very surprised to know, at least 30 years ago, the response time for a tsunami warning from generated off the islands, likely Hawaii, was 30 minutes. By that time, the waves would be ashore on Hawaii and Maui most likely.
60 mph winds means fire can move as fast as a mile in 60 seconds. the fire was similar to the
one south of Boulder a year ago or so. There were over 1000 homes burned and they were
of much more solid construction that nearly any home in Hawaii.
We were on Maui about 25 years ago when there was a tsunami warning, and there was ample warning for that.
Hawaii is 100% democrap. emphasis on crap. but the voters seem to like it.
It developed rapidly. And with fire on one side, the ocean on the other, and the wind blowing hard toward the coast, the best option was to evacuate in the direction of the fire.
Tough call.
Jimmy show us all your Althouse comments expressing concern and sympathy for people who suffered in Red State disasters.
If you can't - shut the fuck up.
I feel sorry for anyone injured or had a loved one die in Maui. But as for "losing your home" or "Your Job" - give me a break. Ever heard of insurance? And almost everyone who owns a home or Condo on Maui is well-to-do. And there are other jobs.
I dislike the snark at people who suffer from national disasters, but its unfeeling Left and Lefty hipster Blue-staters who lead the way in "Black humor". Oh those Rednecks getting caught in tornados "how funny", oh those beachfront owners wiped out in Gulf Hurricane. "what fools for building their houses there", I've actually read in the NYT's that we should permently evacuate anyone living in a floodplain along the Mississippi, Ohio, or Missouri Rivers because its "stupid to live there".
E Palestine Ohio got tons of chemicals dumped on it by a RR accident. I didn't hear much sympathy from the DC elite or the MSM media.
The Jimmys in these communities now have an opportunity to demonstrate how they come together in a crisis. I expect they’ll continue Jimmying instead of seizing the opportunity but I hope they surprise…
"The state and local governments seem to have been singularly incapable ", seem ?. You are far to kind and generous in your assessment. They are libs after all, champions at incompetence. Bunch of air wasting shits.
Via one of Drudge's links - (I know- ugh) I found a "Maui Fires People Locator."
It's a google spread sheet with thousands of names on it. Green = found/ Red = Not Located.
I searched for the family I know - they are not on the list at all. Good news!
I did find the name of a man I used to know. I know his brother and brother's wife a little better. They live up-country. Paul always lived in Lahaina. To my surprise after all these years - he still does. His name is on the list, and he is listed in red as "not located."
God help these people.
houses on stilts for flood protection ; houses with cellars for tornado protection and fire protection? with ground water pooling pumps?
@Jimmy, yes, the fire moved fast. I wrote as much at 7:03 AM. But I also read into your comment a desire on your part to use the speed of the calamity as a reason not to investigate ways the emergency could have been better handled. If that wasn’t your intention do not look for an apology from me — try to write better comments in the future.
This emergency in Lahaina could have been better handled. I don’t see that this assertion is disputable. What forms of alerting the residents existed? Were any utilized? Those that were not utilized, why not? What procedures have to be revised so that in the future more people can be warned, and in a more timely manner, next time? (Next time might not come for 50 years, but take it from a 77 year old geezer — there are always next times.)
Another question. What, if anything, prevented people from using boats to get people to safety?
Other commentators above mentioned East Palestine. Obvious questions include (1) why was a train with 24 cars containing hazardous materials allowed to operate at normal speeds and not the reduced speeds required for trains hauling hazardous cargo? (2) After the five tank cars containing vinyl chloride were emptied via a controlled burn, is the allegation true that the EPA did not test for dangerous combustion products, and if so, why not?
I'm with Jimmy on this one.
rehajm at 6:00, callous as shit
Buckwheathikes at 6:14, callous as shit
I associate this sort of hostility to humanity as internet behavior
also adolescent behavior
and anti-Christian behavior
Jimmy, I feel your anger, but your assumption that this is how "conservative" people talk is ridiculous.
"Lahaina has a famous tree that I found ordinary."
This is a signature rhhardin comment.
Clint Hansen (sp) (not Hanson - typo)
All the rich celebrities on the island are silent. Very strange.
The newly homeless need places to stay. Isn't it curious the very people who lecture us on whatever... are unable to open up their doors to those in need?
The people who live in Lahaina are locals and working class. This fire didn't hit the rich - it hit local Hawaiians.
The famous banyan Tree of maui is a treasure. Why? because of its size. Ordinary? hardly.
R
@Jimmy, I won’t apologize for my trademark snark, either, though you’ll note that I called out Buckwheathikes by name. I don’t believe in blaming the victim unless the victim was utterly egregious (e.g., the guy who drove past the “bridge out” signs because he was following the directions on his navigation app and drove where it said to drive). Can you imagine how risky flying would be today if the NTSB (and comparable agencies in other countries) didn’t investigate each and every commercial aircraft crash looking for lessons learned — and if the FAA didn’t take those recommendations seriously? In my opinion we are letting down the residents of Lahaina, those that survived be even more the people who didn’t make it, if there is no effort to figure out why people weren’t given an adequate warning to evacuate, and subsequently change their emergency procedures accordingly.
All the politicians were plotting on what to do with their 30 pieces of gold.
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