July 31, 2023
"Worried about over-dependence on Mr. Musk’s technology, Ukrainian officials have talked with other satellite internet providers..."
"... though they acknowledged none rival Starlink’s reach. 'Starlink is indeed the blood of our entire communication infrastructure now,' Mykhailo Fedorov, Ukraine’s digital minister, said in an interview. At least nine countries — including in Europe and the Middle East — have also brought up Starlink with American officials over the past 18 months, with some questioning Mr. Musk’s power over the technology, two U.S. intelligence officials briefed on the discussions said. Few nations will speak publicly about their concerns, for fear of alienating Mr. Musk, said intelligence and cybersecurity officials briefed on the conversations.
U.S. officials have said little publicly about Starlink as they balance domestic and geopolitical priorities related to Mr. Musk, who has criticized President Biden but whose technology is unavoidable."
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Musk had better be careful. The corrupt and incompetent US government would like nothing more than to destroy him and take his enterprises.
I trust Elon Musk way more than Joe Biden.
NYT, now write a few more stories about:
* How Mark Zuckerberg has undue influence over social media
* How Bill Gates uses his Windows/Office monopolies to bully others and crush competitors
* How Michael Bloomberg has undue influence on electronic investing and stock trades
* How Jeff Bezos uses his Amazon and cloud business to control and crush and spew propaganda
Oh, I see these are on your team while Musk is largely independent. Good to know.
He foolishly gave them a help to the war effort. Their response is to grab it away from him.
These crooks and thieves are so paranoid about anyone who they cannot absolutely control, even if that private individual has been extremely helpful. Fascists demand total submission, free service is not enough, they must control the means of production. Gee that sounds familiar.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence all the highest profile court appearances last week and this involve actors who made gobs of foreign money from the Ukraine and are closely associated with our current regime and none of them have ever actually registered as foreign agents even though they admit that they made shit-tons of money off the corrupt actors who are doing the agitating about Starlink in this article.
I see Mr. Musk is about to get some gleichshaltung treatment.
When does the Reichscommissar get appointed to X?
How shameful. He is critical of the administration but his products are unavoidable, so something must be done about him.
I enjoy mocking the "most important election ever" propaganda as much as anyone, but these people currently running the West simply have to go.
Darn that Musk. His technology is too…democratizing. How can we get people to believe our propaganda if we can’t control all the information they see?
Build your own satellite network, then. No worries.
"At least nine countries — including in Europe and the Middle East — have also brought up Starlink with American officials over the past 18 months, with some questioning Mr. Musk’s power over the technology, two U.S. intelligence officials briefed on the discussions said."
We unfortunately live in an era When one group of US officials will induce foreign officials to say something to another group of US officials, knowing the second group of US officials intends to leak to the NYT.
At least nine countries — including in Europe and the Middle East
You just know those EU ministers have top men figuring out how to stop this thing. Top. Men.
"U.S. officials have said little publicly about Starlink as they balance domestic and geopolitical priorities related to Mr. Musk, who has criticized President Biden but whose technology is unavoidable."
(1) The US has domestic and geopolitical priorities related to Mr. Musk that need to be balanced.
(2) Criticism of the president is a factor in balancing US priorities.
(3) Musk's technology is unavoidable.
"Build your own satellite network, then. No worries."
Those who can, do
Those who can't, regulate
Those who can't regulate, confiscate
Pro Ukrainian tweeters are among the first to call Musk stupid and a total moron. Which is funny, because Musk has actually done far more for Ukraine than the tweeters. And if Musk is the dumbest man in the world, why doesn't everyone have a constellation of communication satellites in orbit?
On the left, on the right, front and back, irrational passions drive us all and make us stupid.
"...and geopolitical priorities related to Mr. Musk, who has criticized President Biden but whose technology is unavoidable."
Unlike, say...Alphabet, whose Google products are ubiquitous and who's directors and founders have been regular visitors at The White House during the last two Democratic Presidencies. Or, say...Meta, who was famously cooperated with the Government to censor unapproved talk on Facebook. Or Amazon/WaPo who decided it was time to cancel Parlor just as it had become the fastest growing app in the US.
The NY Times would much prefer high character geniuses like SBF in which they can write glowing articles about his 'quirkiness'. I know these NYT articles come across as heavy and serious, but it's really more and more part of the Times (and WaPo's) game to not give any names. Just anonymous sources spilling their true thoughts to The Times. "Ukrainian officials" (did they name any?...I don't have access to the story). And "few nations will speak publicly about their concerns." Why? Because Elon will make his satellites avoid those nations? That's not how it works. He'd call them, talk to them, certainly. I don't know how that's a threat.
Anyway...anyone else can jump in. That Elon came along and did it better than anyone else (with help from his own SpaceX)...well, that's the advantage of genius who doesn't sleep much.
He criticized Mr Biden, and yet a reason is required as to why his company is still used. That's a comment on where we are in the United States.
Not to worry though, when Joe Biden declares himself President for Life and appoints his son Hunter as his successor, all, of course to "save democracy," Starlink will be nationalized and Musk will have an unfortunate paddle boarding accident. Or hang himself with a bedsheet in a jail cell from a bunk bed, which action will oddly leave a scar that looks more like he was strangled with an electrical cord.
I missed the part where Musk held a gun to people's head and forced them to use his services.
The EU is adept at using premium US tech and then commencing kangaroo court administrative proceedings culminating in multibillion dollar fines. Problem solved. Sovereignty trumps talent.
Build your own satellite network, then. No worries.
Robert Marshall, you beat me to it. As far as I know, there is literally no barrier to doing so (the only thing I can think of that would possibly be a concern is if there is some international agreement on where you can "put" satellites, but I know of none such).
Isn't that what they've always told those of the Right to do when we complained about infrastructure that we couldn't access, or couldn't access as freely as they could?
Disgusting. Corrupt, unappreciative and disgusting.
Enigma beat me to it.
Shorter NYT on nearly every subject: Yea team!
The NYT's and the MSM are "alarmed" anytime someone who doesn't agree with them on everything gets a little power. "Some people" and "x-burts" are then "concerned". Unlike the powerful people who follow "The narrative". Those people we can trust.
When the inevitable happens, I hope Musk is very loud in announcing that Governments have ordered him to start censoring their citizens. Maybe then the "Free Press" in the US and EU might stir from their torpor.
"Worried about over-dependence on Mr. Musk’s technology, Ukrainian officials have talked with other satellite internet providers...... though they acknowledged none rival Starlink’s reach."
This is "un-possible"!
Notable business, science and technology whiz kid Althouse leftists Dumb Lefty Mark, gadfly The Rocket Scientist, readering The Automotive Manufacturing Insider and LLR-democratical and Violent Homosexual Rage Rape Fantasist Chuck have assured us all that Musk is an idiot, a clown, a govt welfare queen that accomplishes nothing!
They cam't be....wrong, can they?
Why, its almost like our Althouse lefty Usual Suspects are simply adolescently angry at Musk for believing in free speech, the free exchange of ideas and believing ESG/DEI is a destructive and pernicious set of ideas eating away at the foundation of our nation.
And yes, old and slow above has it right: at some point Musk will stand up against the resurgent New Soviet Democratical Party desires one time too often and then he will get The Full Trump treatment.
Criticizing Joe Biden… the man deserves so much worse for his lies and his promotion of radical policies.
No joke.
Reading that article one thing jumps out over and over. Countries are upset because they do not control starlink. They want to control all means of communication.
They are also upset that musk will not allow them to use starlink to attack another countries territory, how peaceful of him.
Imagine NASA if Musk had been at the helm from the beginning (with the help of Von Braun, Kranz and the Wild Bunch, aka Astronauts, of course).
For starters, it's hard to imagine we'd have pissed away a 50+ year head start in exploration of space.
When I read the other eight of the first nine comments here I am reminded how persistent common sense is even in the face of the massive total disinformation campaign by our Government-Media complex. Good work althousians!
Musk does have undue influence over the technology that he created. Which is pretty normal for inventors--they control their creations.
Nationalization is a common route governments use to control private citizens who get too powerful. I'd rather it go in that direction than rely on government to create these things--it would take NASA 100 years and untold trillions to do what Musk has done in the last 10 with a few billion.
Ah! They're worried by his internet service. Do they have any worries that he controls most of the space launch capability on the planet?
Wasn't Saudi Arabia talking about offering a billion for a soccer player for one year?
Are we saying sovereign nations or regions can't sponsor their own satellite networks?
Or that sovereign nations running satellite networks are more reliable to other sovereign nations than private companies?
It's one of those interesting articles that represents alot of concern and doom-potential without ever actually spealling out the arguments.
I guess those 9 countries also share the inability to have their own satellite network. Why do they have that commonality? Why is that commonality anything we would want to imitate or support?
Shorter: Musk is not helping Putin, as far as we can tell. But we know he’s up to no good.
Musk the maverick.
Fascism cannot endure politically independent capitalism.
Few nations will speak publicly about their concerns, for fear of alienating Mr. Musk
Well, except for the government of the Ukraine, which threw a tantrum when he ran a twitter poll or something and suggested maybe Russia and the Ukraine should negotiate. I thought it was shocking that they would bite the hand that has been feeding them that way, but that government has taken an increasingly high-handed and entitled tone towards its benefactors (see, e.g., their ungracious reaction to the UK Defence Secretary gently reminding them that they ought to show a modicum of gratitude for the *billions of dollars in aid* other governments have been providing to prop up their war effort). So lashing out at Musk is pretty par for the course there.
U.S. officials have said little publicly about Starlink as they balance domestic and geopolitical priorities related to Mr. Musk, who has criticized President Biden but whose technology is unavoidable.
So U.S. officials think that Musk's criticism of Biden should be reason to avoid his technology?
The real issue, which is probably unmentioned in the article, is that Musk probably isn't censoring users of the system the way the government wants.
Top men, eh?
Like these?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRP0MBNoieY
Musk is actually a Martian whose ship crashed here. He's been trying to get home his whole life, but to do that he has had to build our infrastructure in big sequential steps. Each technology produces more capital that he then plows into the next one that gets him closer to the Mars voyage. Starlink is an integral step in the progression.
I hereby waive my rights to develop the foregoing into the new Paranoid Blockbuster that Hollywood will develop if and when it ever ends its strike and starts making something less horrible than "Indiana Jones And The Woke Lecturer."
"...Mr. Musk...whose technology is unavoidable."
Shame on the JCS, DOD and the Federal Government for not having their own satellite network. Maybe LGBTQ+ Pride and Critical Race Theory weren't the most pressing issues that needed addressing.
“Mr. Musk technology” makes it sound like his satellites are tainted.
The demonization will not be televised… it will be streamed.
Musk is more influential than The NY Times.
That really bothers The NY Times.
No good deed goes unpunished!
Serious Question, about the Ukraine War, and the bribery that caused it..
Are there STILL lefties, that are SO STUPID, that they STILL think Biden is "good"?
Or, are they ALL like the lefties Here, that Don't Care, because they are Paid shills for the party?
I'll wait
My god, someone criticized a Democrat? Don’t worry, the NYT and “US Intelligence officials” are on the case! I, for one, sleep well at night knowing the co-conspirators in the Russian Collusion Hoax and the Biden laptop coverup are on the job protecting Democracy! One only hopes they can soon move beyond simply destroying his business and move directly to a lengthy prison sentence for not being sufficiently Democrat friendly.
U.S. officials have said little publicly about Starlink as they balance domestic and geopolitical priorities related to Mr. Musk, who has criticized President Biden but whose technology is unavoidable."
We are not allowed to criticize "Big Biden".
AI Ayn Rand should put out a revised Atlas Shrugged (Starlink prob works on trains). I tried to prod Bard into writing a rebuttal as Ayn Rand but it was bland and predictable. Hmm.
This was never a problem when Musk was a darling of the Left.
Genesis of this NYT article:
- Leftists are clamoring for government to hurt Musk for what he says
- Need to raise specter of Musk business being hurt
- make up nameless, faceless sources for an article
- Give CIA/State Department ideas about how to hurt Musk
- brag about your self-importance around the water cooler
- look for other parts of Musk’s business empire to attack in same way
Alarms are mostly among aging liberal women who read the Times.
Just more on the war on merit.
"criticized President Biden"
Well if that isn't evidence of poor character and bad intentions, I don't know what is!
“ . . . Mr. Musk, who has criticized Dear Leader but whose technology is unavoidable.”
Colonel Mustard writes, "Imagine NASA if Musk had been at the helm from the beginning..."
No need to go back that far. Simply compare and contrast the history of the Artemis SLS to the Saturn V. The Artemis program has been ongoing in fits and starts for eighteen years and had a number of technology jumpstarts from the old Space Shuttle program. In that time it has made only one successful test launch and the total expenditure is practically incalculable thanks to NASA's post-Clinton reorganization into a make-work shelter for unemployable Democrat donors and leeches, however, it exceeds $98 billion since 2017 alone. Consider that in light of the Saturn V program, which started in 1964 with hardly any established technology or engineering. Over a lifetime of nine years, the Saturn V program's cost was under $50 billion in 2020 dollars and resulted in thirteen launches, with only one, Apollo 13, not counted as completely successful.
Now that we've established the fact of NASA's disgusting downfall, compare the Artemis SLS to Musk's Starship -- Artemis is inferior in concept, incompetent in execution, and already obsolete.
Musk is actually a Martian whose ship crashed here. He's been trying to get home his whole life, but to do that he has had to build our infrastructure in big sequential steps.
"Colonel Mustard said...
Imagine NASA if Musk had been at the helm from the beginning (with the help of Von Braun, Kranz and the Wild Bunch, aka Astronauts, of course).
For starters, it's hard to imagine we'd have pissed away a 50+ year head start in exploration of space."
This is why they hate him so much. NASA spent decades spending billions of dollars to promote climate change, and diversity and feminism.
Musk enters the field, and suddenly we are landing boosters on small ocean platforms, talking about going to Mars, and beyond.
The established group think of our government produces nothing but nonsense.
And not only that, he is an advocate for constitutional values like free speech. And OMG, he has criticized QuidProJoe. He must be stopped!
We must look to Ukraine and "global alarms" for guidance.
I think Elon Musk is using the most qualified as employees, even white men, but in any case, the most qualified. Compare Starlink, Tesla, and Space X with the California high-speed rail project - in the one a perfect 10 for DEI; in the other, a perfect 10 for effective and profitable. But is making such a comparison possible a good, moral, legal thing to do? I say, yes, Elon Musk seems moral in what he makes and does, doesn't he? Starlink is helping the Ukraine overcome the numbers disadvantage of its Army by good communications, Tesla is helping the EV image. These are left causes, I think, so they are good and moral by definition and so helping in their success is good and moral, is it not? But wait, X and the Twitter Files foster good communications among US citizens. In the balancing act which is politics. maybe preventing good communications in the US is more important than any other left cause including EVs and the Ukraine war. (Matt Taibbi and Glen Greenwald just don't get it.)
Or maybe they are all grifters in the neo-left at the top, and they are all like Hunter. There, there is no left and right, no man or woman, no race or creed, just the grifters and the suicides.
NATO won't even spend what they promised on actual weapons - should leave plenty of cash for them to develop their own launch technology.
Ukraine, having been given more than $100 billion just since the war began, is far better funded than Space X - let them develop their own launch systems.
Hell, if it is really a problem, the US can develop a competing launch system just on the money currently being shoveled into the Ukraine. We could then launch Ukraine satellites for free and call it a wash!
Obviously, the graft has been missing so time for some pressure on Musk.
What they may be realizing is that the satellites may be way more powerful than they thought. It's not just a bunch of transmitters, it's an integrated neural network. People were startled when it programmed around the Russian jamming attempt. I read between the lines that the system did it on its own, based on fundamental programming. If so, push come to shove, Musk could just turn it on, to run on its own, while releasing detailed communication information to allow people to build their own receivers. Unrestrained, uncensored, free internet service worldwide, the powers that be would hate that.
Over the past few hundred years innovative industrialists have done more to raise the common lot of humanity than the politicians who clipped their wings. And the politicians are themselves a quantum jump ahead of the journalists and writers who criticize these industrialists.....Ida Tarbell did the first Great Take Down of an industrialist in our era. She explained what a threat John D. Rockefeller' monopoly was to our democracy. Rockefeller drove her father out of business. At a time when her father was making wooden oil barrels, John D. Rockefeller was making metal container cars--fleets of them--to ship his oil....I would guess that Tarbell is remembered far more fondly than John D. Rockefeller, but it should be noted that Rockefeller delivered a reliable product at an affordable price to billions. The Rockefeller Institute which he endowed wiped out tapeworm in the south and found a cure or effective prophylactic for Yellow and Scarlet fever. Rockefeller established Morehouse College. It was named after his father-in-law who was a noted abolitionist and whose church was a stop on the Underground Railroad. Altogether Rockefeller did more for humanity than Ida Tarbell, but he's remembered chiefly today in the person of Montgomery Burns on the Simpsons.....I'm sure that someday Hollywood will gear up a full scale hagiographic biography of Ida Tarbell starring Meryl Streep.....Hoover went to Russia and saved millions of lives. John Reed went to Russia and participated in establishing the regime that murdered millions. Guess who got the admiring big screen treatment.
JRoberts said: "Build your own satellite network, then. No worries."
Those who can, do
Those who can't, regulate
Those who can't regulate, confiscate
Wow. Dude that is a great reframing of the old saw. Excellent!
I have no doubt that Musk will not do anything to upset Ukraine's reliance on Starlink. He isn't that bad of a person.
""At least nine countries — including in Europe and the Middle East — have also brought up Starlink with American officials over the past 18 months, with some questioning Mr. Musk’s power over the technology"
What I dislike about Starlink is that Musk is forcing these countries to use it. FORCING THEM!!!!
Oh, and it's odd that spellcheck doesn't recognize Starlink.
Enigma said...
"NYT, now write a few more stories about:
* How Bill Gates uses his Windows/Office monopolies to bully others and crush competition"
I don't know about the NYT specifically. But the MSM used to do that quite a bit until a few decades ago when MS/Bill Gates started hiring expensive lobbyists and throwing some money at Dems / progressive causes.
This Robert Heinlein quote never gets old:
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
"This is known as 'bad luck.'"
If we can just bring Elon Musk back to earth...
tommyesq said...
"Ukraine, having been given more than $100 billion just since the war began, is far better funded than Space X - let them develop their own launch systems."
As others have said. It isn't the satilites but who controls them that bothers the politicians. They have a great fear of things they can't control. And that includes markets for information.
Those that can, do.
Those that can’t, bitch.
"Worried about over-dependence on Mr. Musk’s technology, Ukrainian officials have talked with other satellite internet providers...... though they acknowledged none rival Starlink’s reach."
Musk has everyone, including, most specifically, the US Government, between a rock and a hard place here. They really have no alternatives to dealing with him, on his terms. Sure, a lot of people can put up satellites and the like, it only his company ca do it quickly ad cheaply. It’s because they have perfected, at least this iteration, of reusable launch vehicles, and no one else has. Sure, the USG could afford to pay the extra money to launch with other companies, but they can’t guarantee that they will be able to do so quickly if the ChiComs start shooting down our military satellites. Last I knew, they were launching about half the satellites in the world this year. So, why doesn’t the FJB Administration just seize the company? It would ultimately cost them many $Billion$ in damages, and they would kill the Golden Goose. The USG put men on the moon a half century ago, but can’t reliably launch satellites any more. Musk could just take his technology, and move it elsewhere in the world. And if his launch company is no longer a US company, the the USG no longer would be able to jump to the front of the line for emergency launches.
jimmy: "NASA spent decades spending billions of dollars to promote climate change, and diversity and feminism.
Musk enters the field, and suddenly we are landing boosters on small ocean platforms, talking about going to Mars, and beyond."
NASA long ago morphed into a Jobs Program and permanently away from being a technology/capability advancement effort.
All the 50's/60's/70's "steely-eyed rocket men" left and were never replaced because...why bother?
Just keep those billion dollar cost-plus contracts on tap and flowing and who cares how many tech failures happen and years slip by and cost over-runs occur just as long as Big Space/Old Space stock prices keep going up and Big Space/Old Space lobbying firms remain fully staffed and shoving cash into DC coffers?
Interestingly, Bezos bit down hard on hiring the Old Space "visionaries" (LOL) with predictable "results".
jim5301: "I have no doubt that Musk will not do anything to upset Ukraine's reliance on Starlink."
Oooh. Now that's a "testimonial" thst carries "weight"......not.
North of the One O One said...
Shame on the JCS, DOD and the Federal Government for not having their own satellite network.
Well, there WERE satellite networks BEFORE the internet, you know. The old Air Force Space and Missile Systems Organization (Godfather of the Space Force?) sired a bunch of them. Com Sats, Wx Sats, NRO Sats and, of course the Nav Sat system that ultimately became the GPS.
At one time, the DoD was spending more on space-related stuff than NASA. Probably still is.
Many in the leadership at Los Angeles AF Station referred to the Shuttle as the Space Truck (and not as affectionately as most Ford F-150 drivers). They resisted spending "their" $$$ on the program until told rather directly by the White House that resistance was futile :-(
I think the SAMSO boss "found" some cash laying around somewhere and quietly ordered-up a few extra heavy lift launch vehicles that came in mightly handy when Shuttle launches were put on extended hold after the Challenger disaster.
Just sayin'
I have no doubt that Musk will not do anything to upset Ukraine's reliance on Starlink. He isn't that bad of a person.
You mean the Starlink access that he provided to The Ukraine not just for free, but by taking a loss?
Many anonymous voices were harvested to write this article. Care should be taken lest our critical Strategic Anonymous Sources reserve get too low to sustain our media-political industry.
I've seen this brought up elsewhere recently. I think one of the things Ukraine is upset about is that Musk isn't allowing Starlink to be used to pilot the Ukrainian drones which are being used to target Russian assets and personnel. This doesn't seem unreasonable by Musk. He doesn't want the Starlink satellites to be targets for the Russians.
Read the latest from Tory Bruno and weep for the morons of Big Space/Old Space and their pathetic non-sensical mewlings that only a gadfly or a LLR-democratical Chuck could love:
https://spacenews.com/ula-has-concerns-about-a-third-competitor-in-national-security-space-launch/
Make sure to read the comments at the end.
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded—here and there, now and then—are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as ‘bad luck’.”
– Robert A. Heinlein
@Owen: 10:06
That's the plot for "The Man Who Fell To Earth".
Gahrie. The name of the country is "Ukraine". Look it up.
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