"And, sometimes, 'Which is the most painful thing that can happen here, by which I mean the most funny?'"
Said Jesse Armstrong, quoted in "The End of 'Succession' Is Near/The show’s creator, Jesse Armstrong, explains why he has chosen to conclude the drama of the Roy family in its fourth season" (The New Yorker, February 23, 2023).That's a quote I read recently — after watching all 39 episodes of "Succession" in something close to 39 days, which I did because I kept seeing New Yorker articles about the greatness of the final season and felt doomed to see the spoilers sooner or later. Having watched the show, I could finally read the articles, and so I have a vast trove of things to be reminded of when I'm reading other things, and that's how a post like this ends up happening. That last paragraph of the previous post — "Drinking is funny until it's not.... The need to say things like 'self-care,' 'virtuous aftercare,' and 'biohack' sounds desperate, but that can be part of the funny, especially for the drunkards" — got me thinking about Armstrong's quote about comedy and pain.
This is a big topic — comedy and pain — and I challenge you to discuss it without quoting Mel Brooks.
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28 comments:
Laurel and Hardy The Music Box. What more can be said?
Can we quote Groucho?
Well, when you have writers who do not know or care how to use the superlative form, it's another symptom of civilizational decline: "most funny thing."
Social life is filled with unwritten rules that you can't explain, at least until somebody makes a career of explaining them like Erving Goffman. Situation comedy is found in violating them, still without explaining them. The reaction felt when they're violated could be called pain.
Goffman was reported to be very painful to go to dinner with. He keeps doing social experiments.
"Well, when you have writers who do not know or care how to use the superlative form, it's another symptom of civilizational decline: "most funny thing.""
What nutty language rule are you proposing?
How about parallelism? What would you do to get "most painful thing" into the superlative form? "Painfulest"? "Fullest in the pain department"?
Physically painful is obvious—slapstick is universally funny. People getting hurt, but not too hurt, is funny.
Emotionally painful is more subtle. On the one hand, you have “it’s funny because it true,” but on the other hand, you have cringe. It’s a hard beam to balance. And when you’re done, you’re likely to have something culturally specific, with limited international appeal.
In the climax to "About a Boy" Will, a private person, sings and plays guitar in front of a packed school auditorium and gets beaned by a thrown apple. I laugh at that scene every single time.
Althouse said...
This is a big topic — comedy and pain — and I challenge you to discuss it without quoting Mel Brooks.
Funny, when I Googled the following, the exact scene I was thinking of came up. Three minutes of human torture.
Three Stooges most violent sequence
No Mel Brooks? I'll quote Charlie Chaplin. "Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot."
I think that works in reverse for 'Succession'.
‘What would you do to get "most painful thing" into the superlative form? "Painfulest"?’ No, painfullest.
In the wonderfully painful and funny "Time Bandits," a drunk Napoleon demands more comedy:
Napoleon : "Little things hitting each other. THAT'S WHAT I LIKE!"
He then goes on to list great conquering heroic persons before his time, and their relatively short personal heights, making the scene both funny and painful. He is only 5'1" tall, himself. The Time Bandits steal the hand he keeps tucked in his vest, solid gold!
Making absurd someone from history who caused deaths in vast numbers is also both funny and painful. But no, I can't and won't quote from Springtime for Hitler as another similar bit of comedy. Instsead I'll mention Bill & Ted bringing Ghengis Khan to their high school presentation on historic greats.
Bill: It is indeed a pleasure to introduce to you a gentleman we picked up in medieval Mongolia in the year 1269.
Ted: Please welcome the very excellent barbarian...
Bill and Ted: MR. GENGHIS KHAN!
[The students applaud wildly for Khan.]
Ted: This is a dude who, 700 years ago, totally ravaged China, and who, we were told, two hours ago totally ravaged Oshman's Sporting Goods.
It plays better on screen than in print, but yeah, same funny idea as the Napoleon scene.
"Oh my God. They killed Kenny."
It's good to be King.
Challenge accepted!
Comedy and pain.....
Any random guy getting wacked in the nuts. As long as it isn't you it will always be funny.
Women usually cringe when they see it. Guys will laugh out loud.
Drunk women attempting almost anything and failing is funny especially if they land on their ass.
Geez,some superlative adjectives use "-est" and some use "most." You can look it up: https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/adjectives-superlative.php. But "most funny" is definitely "funniest" by grammatical rule and traditional usage. But then rules and traditional usage are both disappearing . . . not for the better in many cases. There is no parallelism, it is just "funniest and most painful." "Most funny" is just wrong--and sounds weird. Kind of like "most big" vs. "biggest."
“ ‘What would you do to get "most painful thing" into the superlative form? "Painfulest"?’ No, painfullest.”
No one says that word — one L or 2.
It’s not in the OED.
There’s no rule against using “most” that I’ve ever heard of just because there’s an “-est” word that could be used.
‘I’ve never seen the assertion that there is such a rule but searching, I found this discussion of how there is not https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2018/07/comparative-superlative.html
I’ve been interested over the years in grammar rules people believe in that don’t exist but I hadn’t seen this one. Why would you try to dictate that there’s only one way to write something?
And then to criticize an excellent writer as if he’s ignorant.
It is true that longer adjectives don’t work with -est.
That’s my point about painful.
But the existence of the -est word doesn’t mean it’s required. It’s a matter of following your taste and preference.
Welcome to the blog, ronetc.
"‘What would you do to get "most painful thing" into the superlative form? "Painfulest"?’ No, painfullest."
I find this side-discussion most painy.
In 7th grade, over the course of a school year, Mrs. Gaddis, my English teacher, taught us all about the rules for writing properly. On the last day, she told us that any of those rules could be broken by a good writer who knew what he or she was doing.
THe number one rule for Comedy writers:
Use the Correct grammar.
we have inate willingness to laugh at physical comedy. WHich means OTHER people falling down, hitting their thumbs with hammers, getting hit by pies, etc.
We even do that with our pets. How many people have laughed when their dog slides on slippery floor and crashes into a wall? Or their cat tries to jump accross something, and fails?
when i was kid, my sister accidently sat on her ice cream cone. I laughed myself sick. She still doesn't think that was funny.
Pink Panther was good at physical comedy.
Princess Di, too, one day when she had backed the legs of her chair onto the coat that was hanging on it.
Succession lost me. It became too painful to watch. It made me feel bad about being a human being.
"Life is pain, highness. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something." William Goldman
Was that comedy when he wrote it or in the context of the movie even? Certainly the latter part is a bit, though also I think meant seriously. Meant as witticism.
I thought of that before anything from the great comedian you banned from reference.
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