My husband was chatting with our new neighbor when the neighbor mentioned he could see me undressing at night through my bathroom window. Our homes are on three-quarter-acre lots, so we’re not that close. My husband was speechless, and I continue my nightly ritual, which does not include drawing the shades. Was our neighbor wrong to say something? Shouldn’t he not look?
How do you "not look" at something that you must first see to know it's there and not to be looked at?
ADDED: The use of the word "ritual" lays bare the performance element of this woman's behavior. But the real question is, why did the NYT publish this letter? I'll bet I could write a blog, posting daily, devoted entirely to exposing the gratuitous nudity in the NYT.
For example — from May 19th — "Naked Stand-Up Comedy: Everything You Imagine, but Oh So Much More/Do you wear shoes onstage? What’s it like to bomb while nude? And, ahem, where do you keep your notes? But the shows often sell out" ("... she is entirely naked...").
And, from yesterday — "Judge Dismisses Lawsuit Over Nudity in ‘Romeo and Juliet’/The actors in Franco Zeffirelli’s 1968 film sued Paramount Pictures last year over a scene in which the star-crossed title characters woke up together in the nude" ("The judge dismissed the lawsuit, writing that the claim concerned filmmaking, a protected activity under the First Amendment").
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67 comments:
If she knows he's looking and still doesn't draw the shades, she wants him to look.
However
No woman must be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
"Dear Penthouse Forum: I never thought this would happen to me, but..."
I feel certain I will not be the only commenter to go here.
A woman who showers and/or undresses for bed without drawing her blinds or curtains has a name: exhibitionist.
This was a sexual come-on or invitation by the neighbor. Even sheltered DDB can figure that out!
The neighbor did nothing wrong. If she insists on continuing to undress next to a window where her neighbor can see her, then he has every right to look. Demanding that he not is imposing on him.
I thought “draw the curtains” means to open them. And “pull the curtains” means to close them.
This letter has more than a whiff of early 90s Penthouse Forum.
"I continue my nightly ritual, which does not include drawing the shades."
Moron, reveal thyself.
#LookAtMe is a defamation lawsuit in planning, conception, and execution.
Ludicrously disingenuous letter to the NYT "Social Q" advice columnist
Dear Penthouse Forum: "You're not going to believe this, but..."
If your neighborhood features an attractive exhibitionist, why not look? The neighbor was not wrong to look, he was wrong to say something. Why mess up the show?
Oh! What’s that address, again? ;)
The neighbor was wrong to mention it unless others could see her undressing. If it was just him, then he needlessly embarrassed the woman. If he thought it wrong to look, then he should have averted his eyes and refrain from looking in the future. Otherwise he should look and furtively enjoy the view.
for any straight man - A naked women is a ..... Squirrel.
Observations: (1) Damn, how big is that bathroom window? Most of them are tiny, if there's one at all. Neighbor must be using binoculars. (2) If I'd been the neighbor, I would not have said anything. Even if they were doing the nasty in front of an undraped window, I wouldn't have said anything. Not about that, anyway.
>Shouldn’t he not look?<
Anyone knows not to undress in a lighted room at night in front of an unshielded window. Especially after being warned! A freebie is a freebie - of course he should look, if he feels like it.
Reading the New York Times has become a daily disingenuous act of pretending one is learning about the world as it is and not how one wants it to be.
That's most "news" in our fractured culture, but few outlets rely so heavily on disingenuousness as this one.
How do you "not look" at something that you must first see to know it's there and not to be looked at?
By not using binoculars? (I'm not good at judging distance, so maybe they're not needed for peeping in this case.)
And your neighbor will continue his nightly ritual... now with telephoto lens.
He warned. You ignored.
Closing the view seems pretty easy. Perhaps she likes the mutual nightly ritual.
This published confession bears all the indicators of a handmade tale, a case study in unrequited rape, a slut walk without shame to shame.
"Tell your wife's boobs to stop staring at my house."
George Caught Looking at Cleavage
Was the neighbor supposed to know not to say something? If you don't care about what others might see, then why complain to the NYT Social Q? Is the issue what the neighbor sees or the husband's reaction to the show given to the neighbors? If it is purely a complaint that you should be able to leave your window open with no drawn shades without people seeing what's going on inside, well the physics of light says you got a problem that only you can fix.
Dave Begley said...This was a sexual come-on or invitation by the neighbor.
No it wasn't. He was telling her to draw the curtain.
He never said he made a point of watching her. He said he could see her, which is true even if he only saw her once. He was being considerate. Everyone else is assuming her ritual of exposing herself is going hand-in-hand with his ritual of watching. If that were true, he would have kept quiet about it.
Well, I knew someone who lived next door to a house with a window in the shower. It was some kind of frosted glass, so they must have assumed you couldn't see in. But at night, when the bathroom was lit, you could see a pretty clear outline of the young woman taking a shower. This person I knew claimed not to want to upset them by telling them and hadn't told them, but continued to see a lot, night after night. When I took the position that this was wrong and they needed to inform the neighbors, they had the additional argument that it's too late now, because they'd lived next door for some time. They'd be asked why are you only telling us now. That would be even more upsetting. So I don't think they ever told them. At some point, there would be new owners of the house that faced that window. I'll bet the new owners informed their neighbor right away. And then what would be thought of the people that lived there before, the people I knew?
Is there a seinfeld episode that is on point? To ask the question is to answer it, of course there is.
"Our policy is enjoy the show"
https://youtu.be/H1WKNdSnMx8?t=26
John Henry
if a man sees a woman undressing, he is a peeping tom, and should GO TO PRISON!!!!!
if a woman sees a man undressing, he is an exhibitionist, and should GO TO PRISON!!
And for a double header, it was a woman undressing across the way with curtains open that caused Kramer to lose "The Contest"
https://youtu.be/61zJHstzOoY?t=73
And this could be a question for Emily Post but perhaps someone here knows: Is it bad etiquette to masturbate while watching the woman undress?
And what about mentioning it to her? "Hey, I really enjoy watching your show while I am waxing my rocket. Very stimulating"
Is that not OK? Because I'm a little unclear on the etiquette of the situation.
John Henry
funny (strange) neither HER nor the neighbor mentioned the OTHER PART of her nightly ritual..
You know, the masturbation in front of the window part.
What we don't know is if she's worth looking at.
The guy was probably just trying to be a good neighbor, like when someone tells you the tag on your shirt is sticking out or if youv'e got a stain on the front of your blouse or your fly is unzipped. And I wonder why the husband would be so speechless. That seems an overreaction. Or maybe he's just a Calvin Coolidge type (in keeping with the current Althouse theme of mentioning long dead Presidents that no one really remembers or knows anything about).
Mack thoughts books should have chapters of pure hoptedoodle so John Steinbeck did a coupld in Sweet Thursday. (Or Cannery Row?) One of the chapters was about a town near Monterey called Carmel(?) which thought people were up to shenanigans and required them to have all windows curtained at night.
Then they realized that people might get up to shenanigans in the day and required all residents to have the curtains open during the day.
John Henry
>I'll bet the new owners informed their neighbor right away.<
I'll take that bet.
>And then what would be thought of the people that lived there before, the people I knew?<
Hard to know but it is highly unlikely that it would be based on this mountainous molehill of yours.
I had a Leyland Cypress growing in my lot for 22 years, effectively blocking the neighbor's view into a bathroom window. This winter's ice storm killed the tree dead, breaking almost all branches. So now I have to grow another one. Until then, out of kindness to the neighbor, I will curtain that window fully. It is neighborly to be discreet. Especially if overweight and old, the combination of saggy with blobby is not a good look on a human.
In answer to the why question I think the NYT is starved for good compelling short fiction and this letter is free and of higher literary quality than the usual agitprop crap that passes for prose nowadays.
"Tell your wife's boobs to stop looking at my house."
Hahaha.
My chimneys are up here.
if a man sees a woman undressing, he is a peeping tom, and should GO TO PRISON!!!!!
if a woman sees a man undressing, he is an exhibitionist, and should GO TO PRISON!!
What if he claims he's a woman?
Stimulating conversation with prurient content is right in the Old Gray Lady’s wheelhouse. Bravo NYT! It might be hard to believe but once upon a time we journalism students held the Times in the highest regard for their stylebook and thorough coverage. It was the standard against which we measured our national award winning high school newspaper. We made sure as editors that every article cover the “five Ws” even feature stories. We followed their style of capitalization for the President exclusively to pay respect to the highest executive. Then in college Reagan was elected and the fabled Times changed their stylebook and downgraded POTUS to a small P just because we had sinned and elected a Republican. Sure they made up an excuse about olde fashioned punctuation but I saw through it.
I was no longer a journalist or a fan of the Times. Every data point I’ve seen since has reinforced what I believed about the style change and the death of any objectivity or pretense the NYT is trying to be objective.
Ann Althouse said...When I took the position that this was wrong and they needed to inform the neighbors, they had the additional argument that it's too late now, because they'd lived next door for some time.
You were still right. All they had to do was say this is the first time they noticed it.
Had a friend with stained glass in her bath window. She assumed that would suffice to maintain privacy. Her neighbor, a minister, would practice his sermons in the back yard. One day she was chatting with the minister when her husband happened to take a shower.
As she told me, I could see everything about Ted, just in multi-colors.
She added drapes.
Bet the sermons were duller after that.
Ok, so last week I had to make a speed run through the Miami airport to retrieve a bag that had been lost on my incoming flight the day before, then rush it to the check-in counter of another airline to check it for my outbound flight. I literally ran from the rental car center tram to the Air France desk to collect the bag.
Out of breath, I showed the young man behind the desk my baggage claim stub and gasped out that I'd been told to pick up my bag here. Looking at me, he hesitated for a moment, then took the claim stub from me, logged something in, and went to "the back" to find my bag.
Starting to catch my breath as I waited, I smiled at the Air France woman at the neighboring desk. She gave me a rather faltering smile back.
Only then did I realize that my outfit was undone to the waist. The strap of my crossbody purse, under the impetus of my pell-mell run through the airport, had unbuttoned every button. Luckily I was wearing the pretty bra that day - but still.
NO ONE said anything, even then. I just rolled my eyes at myself and buttoned up.
For my 15 minutes, I was Florida woman!
Ok, so last week I had to make a speed run through the Miami airport to retrieve a bag that had been lost on my incoming flight the day before, then rush it to the check-in counter of another airline to check it for my outbound flight. I literally ran from the rental car center tram to the Air France desk to collect the bag.
Out of breath, I showed the young man behind the desk my baggage claim stub and gasped out that I'd been told to pick up my bag here. Looking at me, he hesitated for a moment, then took the claim stub from me, logged something in, and went to "the back" to find my bag.
Starting to catch my breath as I waited, I smiled at the Air France woman at the neighboring desk. She gave me a rather faltering smile back.
Only then did I realize that my outfit was undone to the waist. The strap of my crossbody purse, under the impetus of my pell-mell run through the airport, had unbuttoned every button. Luckily I was wearing the pretty bra that day - but still.
NO ONE said anything, even then. I just rolled my eyes at myself and buttoned up.
For my 15 minutes, I was Florida woman!
"But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked"
The lawsuit was ridiculous 50 years after, but I'm not sure the First Amendment covers sexual exploitation of minors.
And, from yesterday — "Judge Dismisses Lawsuit Over Nudity in ‘Romeo and Juliet’/The actors in Franco Zeffirelli’s 1968 film sued Paramount Pictures last year over a scene in which the star-crossed title characters woke up together in the nude"
In Italy the age of consent is 14. That’s today, of course, but there is no reason to believe it was any higher in Italy in 1968.
When the neighbor's wife is Cindy Crawford, you keep your yap shut about it. When the neighbor's wife is Lizzo, you move to another state.
Dollars to donuts he's screwing her.
there is the candys solution from herodotus,
And, from yesterday — "Judge Dismisses Lawsuit Over Nudity in ‘Romeo and Juliet’/The actors in Franco Zeffirelli’s 1968 film sued Paramount Pictures last year over a scene in which the star-crossed title characters woke up together in the nude" ("The judge dismissed the lawsuit, writing that the claim concerned filmmaking, a protected activity under the First Amendment").
So you can commit any crime you want, child porn, rape, murder, and as long as it's "concern[ing] filmmaking" it's "protected" under the 1st Amendment?
That's a case that really needs to be appealed
Reminds me of one of my dad’s favorite jokes.
Old lady calls 911. “Please send a cop over. My neighbor is walking around naked in his back yard!”
Cop arrives and meets her at the door. “I don’t see your neighbor behind his fence, lady.” “Well, yes, but you can see everything from inside my house.”
Cop follows her into the living room and looks out the window. “I don’t see him from here either, ma’am”. “Well you can really only see it from upstairs. Come along.”
They get to the upstairs bedroom. Cop looks out the window and says “I still don’t see him, lady.” “Well, you need come come in the bathroom.”
They walk into the bathroom. Cop looks out and says, “Ma’am, all I can see is the top of his head. You are really wasting our time here.”
“But Officer, if you stand on the toilet and bend your neck sideways like this, I swear to you, you can see EVERYTHING!”
"My chimneys are up here."
I like big basements and I cannot lie
No other broker can deny
When a couple walks in
With an itty-bitty rate
And a finished-basement change order in my face
I close escrow
Plot twist: the exhibitionist letter writer is Lizzo.
And shouldn't widow Jones be told to keep
Her window shades all pulled completely down
- Harper Valley PTA (1968)
There was a time in America when people just knew shit like that.
I'm questioning the premise of a bathroom with a picture window.
What if he claims he's a woman?
Duh. Then he goes to WOMEN'S PRISON!
That'll show him.
All letters to advice columns are made up. Can’t believe it is 2023 and people still fall for this hoax
I've never been able to see anything in any of my neighbors' houses, even from right outside.
Don't forget George Costanza and the "sponge bath."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LiQXbdo8vg
Well ... how old is she? Is she hot or not?
If hot:
18-30... keep the shades open!!
40-50... dunno...
60-on.. close 'em will ya?
If not:
close 'em will ya?
Making the unlikely assumption that this is on the level and not the most likely assumption that the NYT is doing the Penthouse Forum thing, the proper response is to say “Thank you for telling me. I hope that you enjoyed the show.” With an appropriate smile.
And then tell your wife to close the drapes.
Jeez.
When I got out of school in the early 80's I lived in a "Young Peoples" apartment complex. Half the girls laid around the pool topless, you could offer them a drink and they would give you a jiggly clink of the glasses.
It's true, don't buy the cow if the milk is at low cost. Why look thru windows if you can view the original etchings in private.
Any does the NYT present stories of nudity? Because we are all prudes here in the United States. 10 years of living in Europe dude he of that.
Fit to flash is fit to print.
David Begley's point at 8:44am about it being an invitation didn't occur to me but it does make sense. The NYT likes them articles about throuples. Got to give them well-educated white ladies a reason to renew their subscriptions.
I think irritated//angry wife of the guy who said something is also possibility. Perhaps wife has seen other woman naked and doesn't want her husband to get same view.
Built a house up in the mountains for a gay couple. The master bath was, for all intents and purposes, entirely glass. If you were to drive up on it, you had a full view into it. No measures taken for privacy, whatsoever. Tub, shower, toilet... Everything. No measures taken for adding privacy, either. Not even sure how you would do that, absent fencing or screening on the exterior...
Granted, the view was magnificent, but I'm not too sure the neighbors really appreciated the one they got looking back. I understand that they wound up erecting tall fences, themselves, in order to block the view for their young children, once said kids grew up enough to ask mommy and daddy what the neighbors were doing to each other...
I'm not sure, but I think a certain amount of exhibitionism was at play with all of that. I rather suspect some eyebleach would be needed, were you to drive up on the place at the wrong time...
Stutefish, my house has a 4'x4' window with a nice sill right at the top of the giant soaking bathtub. Cool beverages sit there very nicely when the tub is used. The builder made many jokes about the window with my wife, who insisted on the placement and size.
He was dismayed when we planted a Leyland Cypress in front of the window, blocking the view from the only neighbor, and more dismayed when she showed him the drapes, too. Sitting in the tub with the sun shining in is a delight. The tub is big enough for two, which was also a well-considered design point. God, I love that woman.
This comes to mind:
"It happened, late one afternoon, when David arose from his couch and was walking on the roof of the king's house, that he saw from the roof a woman bathing; and the woman was very beautiful." 2 Samuel 11:2
The woman was Bathsheba. King David in the end arranges for her husband to be killed in battle and takes her as his own wife.
Bathsheba later will become the mother of Solomon, by David. And it all started with a look.
Jamie, pictures or it didn't happen.
<sensible chuckle ™)
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
Nothing weird, Burt.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gL17bwbFDAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI3OYR_XM0w
Been said.
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