After the outcry, Education Department officials said this week that students who need accommodations would soon be able to receive full honors through classes on other life skills....
April 22, 2023
"Swimming is required to graduate with full honors from the elite Manhattan public school. Some Muslim girls worried..."
"... the shift to co-ed classes would pit their academic goals against their religion," the NYT reports.
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40 comments:
Uhhh...
Why not separate boys and girls classes?
Oh, I forgot.
Woke.
Swimming is an incredibly important life skill.
Now, what about the locker rooms they have to share with trans people? The feds have said other accommodations are discriminatory.
When my Jewish friend got married there was smaller, more private ceremony before the main ceremony. In it he and his soon-to-be wife had a special Rabbi present and explain to the Ketubah, the marriage contract, which they were about to enter into. He told me it had been in practice since time immeormial and outlined the rights and obligations of the husband and wife in the marriage. One of his duties, was that if he and his wife had children he was responsible for teaching them to swim. This initially struck me as somewhat quirky but the more I thought about it the more practical is seemed. If life ever presents you with the situation where you need to swim, you will really need to be able to swim, and your life and others' may depend on it. All kids who are able to, should learn how to swim.
That being said, one of the best moves our genetic ancestors ever made was getting out of the ocean. The Ocean is just one giant soup of everything trying to eat everything else.
Muslim girls with religious objections to coed swimming classes are accommodated. Non-muslim girls with objections to sharing a locker room and showers with a man are shamed as transphobic and given no relief. It's clear which group has power. Yet I regularly read that the U.S. is deeply islamophobic. Exactly how does that work?
Since students can either (1) learn to swim, or (2) take another class, its a matter of think or swim.
>So Muslim students at Hillcrest have prayed in a 4-foot-wide closet filled with classroom materials.
“We’ve been so disheartened,” said Ariyya Mohsin, 16, a Hillcrest sophomore who is Muslim, adding that she has sometimes struggled to feel like “a valued member of the community.”<
She would be more valued if she didn't strive so to be a pain in the ass. You want to pray? Then pray. You don't need to make a big show of it.
The Christian school prayer advocates have long pushed for ostentatious displays of praying in school in lieu of the obvious private way to fulfill their supposed inability to go a few hours without praying. And they were rightly denied that by Constitutional law. It should be no different for Muslims wanting the same thing. But, be assured, that it will be. Because, you know...Muslims.
People talk about trans athletes competing against biological females, and that is one problem. But the Obama administration kicked off a lot of this current social discussion by suing a Chicago suburb for making a special accommodation for a trans student to have separate locker/bath facilities rather than sharing with bio boy or girls.
I was living in Chicago at the time, and was a yoga instructor. If there was a student who was trans - at whatever level of transitioning- we were legally not allowed to question which locker room/shower they wanted to use. If another student was uncomfortable, we were to ask *them* to wait for the trans person to finish using the facilities.
I don't think that's good policy.
So now we recognize that *some* girls-- in this case Muslim- aren't comfortable sharing their bare limbs with people of another gender/sex? And that gets accommodations? What about the other girls and boys?
It's all a complicated discussion, and what I resent it being the baddy for wanting to have it.
It's a *public* school that is just now shifting to co-ed. And swimming is required? This is too ridiculous to care about.
Those other life skills will come in really handy the first time you fall off a boat : )
Swimming is a critically important life skill and it’s a private school, so I don’t understand what real barrier exists to accommodating these students’ needs (other than the school’s unwillingness to bear the cost).
Joe Smith said...
Those other life skills will come in really handy the first time you fall off a boat : )
or your child falls off
serious Question:
How do these Muslim Girls feel about chicks with dicks showering with them?
Social progress in nominally "secular" public schools.
As stated, the solution is simple, non-coed swimming classes.
Manhattan is surrounded by water.
They sell burkinis.
The stupidity of Islam is only exceeded by its cruelty.
Well, you can see part of the hierarchy of victimhood in this one story. Muslim females still at the top.
Muslim transgenders would be at the top, but they don't exist.
Hmm...I wonder what other life skills can substitute for swimming....
Any Jews or Christian students given accommodation?
Yancey Ward said...
Well, you can see part of the hierarchy of victimhood in this one story. Muslim females still at the top.
... Muslim transgenders would be at the top, but they don't exist.
serious question: HOW LONG?
Before the wokists start accepting female circumcision as a treatment for gender dysphoria?
my name is Fatima, and i had my clitoris chopped off... Gotta PROBLEM with that?
Swimming? That's a weird requirement. I actually never learned to swim. (There were not a lot of swimming pools in East L.A., where I grew up.)
"It's clear which group has power. Yet I regularly read that the U.S. is deeply islamophobic. Exactly how does that work?"
It works the same way the phrase "historically underserved communities" does. Historically, means no longer. And those communities now receive more services than any other, so clearly, they're no longer underserved. And yet, for some reason, they still need more services.
War=Peace
The Muslima quoted in the article is just pathetic: You ask for special rules to separate yourself from the community you live in, then whine that you aren't a "valued member" of that community?
Of course, the real villains here aren't the 16-year-old girls -- I've never been a girl nor Muslim, but I was pretty stupid and self-absorbed at the age of 16 anyway -- but rather the adults who would pay the slightest attention to this kind of pleading.
Muslim transgenders would be at the top, but they don't exist.
Actually, they do. If you are trans, you aren't gay. When given the choice many choose to have their penis cut off rather than be thrown off of a building.
The madrassa is calling
"...against their religion".
In the name of equality should not all religions be treated (sic) equally? (rhetorical. Of course). Can we not say "your religion cannot supersede my feelings"?
A progressive society is a regressive society.
We need a limiting principle here, and finding one is not as easy as might be assumed. If female students of religion X say they cannot take math with male students, public schools are justified in denying that request. Private clothes changing rooms need rules, with or without regard to religion, all complicated by trans kids. What if female students of religion X say they cannot swim in an all female class unless menstruating girls are excluded, per the rules of their holy book? Public schools has to say no to that as well. But these are just examples, not a distilled principle to be applied across all scenarios.
And in this specific case? I’m inclined to say that public schools can require swimming and decline all-female classes. Perhaps t
I am wrong, but not because we have to agree to all religious requests.
The college I attended required all students know how to swim. During orientation week you reported to the hall housing a swimming pool, waited in line, and when your turn came you jumped in and swam 50 yards down and back.
If you did not take the test, or failed to complete the swim you had to take swimming classes in order to receive your degree.
Why the Muslims? There are many Christian denominations where modesty is important.
A progressive society is a regressive society.
Progress is an unqualified monotonic process. For example, in some societies, human rites (e.g. human sacrifice, clinical cannibalism, carbon sequestration) are performed by some religious sects for social, redistributive, clinical, political, and fair weather progress. Some societies have reimagined Mengele's vision of human evolution through medical, surgical, and psychiatric corruption. The same societies exercise liberal license to indulge diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry). Some societies have deprecated females in order to keep women and girls affordable, available, and taxable, and the "burden" of evidence aborted, cannibalized, sequestered in darkness. There is no shortage of empathetic bullshit that rationalizes advocacy, activism, and cruel neutrality in progressive societies.
When I went to a community college for the first time in 1975-77, there was a requirement that all candidates for graduation had to be able to swim using either the breast stroke or the crawl. Since I was born with a severe case of Pectus Excavatum, I was unable to meet that requirement, as there were no medical waivers given. I joined USAF and after my discharge, I went back to the college and completed my degree. The college didn't like it, but they had to permit veterans to graduate without the swimming requirement.
As to the Muslims, these days I am opposed to any religious accommodation. Most of the places I've worked in a professional setting(engineering design) do not permit any religious material, or garb, or diet(this includes the ridiculous peanut allergy scam) on the premises. Keep one's religion PRIVATE and out of public view. I worked in one place where we had weekly lunch meetings to discuss the status of our projects. There was a new Jewish engineer in the group, and he objected to the BLT sandwiches that were served that week. The manager explained that he could either eat the sandwich or clean out his desk. He was also told that his head covering was against company policy(he had been written up and his agency rep had spoken to him about it).
Another place had the cars of new hires scrutinized for inappropriate bumper stickers. Anything political or religious was noted, and the stickers had to be removed by the following day. I got tagged for my pro gun sticker, but it was magnetic...
In this case, the woman in question should be told that if she won't follow the rules, she won't graduate.
Plague Monk
Unknown believes that peanut allergies are a ridiculous scam and that Jews should eat the bacon sandwiches or be sacked. I think Unknown is a moron who is making things up. I prefer the morons who are sincere. That's why I come here!
I've read this article twice, but even the second time the "Muslim [girls] can't/won't swim" is the overriding thought.
Unknown-
I won't be the first to call you on this, I'm sure, but you did not join the USAF with a "severe" case of anything, let alone pectus excavatum deformity.
Also not going along with your religious intolerance. No way he was told to eat the sandwich or clean out his desk. Maybe he was told to bring his own sandwich. Wearing a yarmulke, or a headscarf, or a crucifix on a neck chain, etc., in no way interferes with doing the vast majority of jobs, and is rightfully protected in the USA. Maybe the place you worked was in Munich in 1939, or Islamabad last week?
North Carolina State University had nude unisex swimming hours back in the 1970s. IIRC, they instituted two different times when college women decided to complain about lack of access to the pool during the men's nude hours. That is an acommodation. There are head to toe swimsuits designed specifically for Muslim female swimmers, they can set up unisex swim class, and nobody should be allowed to avoid learning how to swim.
Burkinis were suggested by the school but the girls refused. They said they were still not comfortable being at a pool with boys. How about when they are at the beach?
France banned burkinis when Muslim women wanted to wear them at public places pools and at the beach. France wants public secular spaces to be free of any religious symbols. In the US our policy is to accommodate religious observances.
I sense a disturbing level of weakness by the administrators at the school. Or ultimately it’s cynicism. If the girls insist on refusing swimming instruction who suffers?
Muslim girls with religious objections to coed swimming classes are accommodated. Non-muslim girls with objections to sharing a locker room and showers with a man are shamed as transphobic and given no relief.
Some animals are more equal than others.
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