March 14, 2023

"One of the most enduring public images of Ms. Schroeder is of her crying when she announced in 1987 that she would not run for president."

"At an outdoor event in Denver, she choked up with emotion, pressed a tissue to her eyes, and at one point leaned her head on her husband’s shoulder. The episode outraged some feminists, who said her tears had reinforced stereotypes and set back the cause of women seeking office. It was an ironic charge against a woman who had done so much to promote that cause. Ms. Schroeder was the first woman elected to Congress from Colorado and the first to serve on the Armed Services Committee. She had to fight blatant discrimination from the start, facing questions about how, as the mother of two young children, she could function as both a mother and a lawmaker...."

That indelible crying:


Many people believed — for a long time, people believed there could be no crying in politics. Before Patricia Schroeder's tears, in 1987, there was Ed Muskie, in 1972, who dropped out of the presidential race perhaps because of that stray tear, which flowed perhaps because of snowflakes. But Schroeder didn't drop out because she'd cried. She cried because she was dropping out.

Had I ever blogged about Patricia Schroeder? You'd think this topic of crying in politics would have come up some time in the last 19 years, but no.

The first problem is, as the Times article reveals, perhaps no one would move to the middle ground: 
Several opponents said immigrants who were deeply invested in tradition would probably deem the alternative insufficient, while immigrants who were liberated from that tradition would feel no need for a substitute. 
Sometimes there is no middle ground. The second problem is that becoming involved in developing a middle ground seems to legitimate the evil extreme, and it participates in evil. So we can't trust that everything else would remain equal. [Jacob] Levy has written a book on multiculturalism, which I haven't read, but I rankled at his blogged comment "A Seattle hospital considered doing precisely the same thing a number of years ago, until it was bullied out of it by activists and by Patricia Schroeder." 
There is at least a basis for principled disagreement here about whether compromise is acceptable....

Sometimes you need to cry and sometimes you need to do what somebody's going to call bullying.

Thanks for all your contributions, Patricia Schroeder.

54 comments:

Humperdink said...

My memory of Pat Schroeder was from Rush Limbaugh's radio show (he called her Patsy). He got quite a bit of mileage from her. OTOH, she was an airplane pilot.

Blastfax Kudos said...

"The episode outraged some feminists, who said her tears had reinforced stereotypes and set back the cause of women seeking office."

It's good to see feminists reinforce stereotypes about feminists having more concern with emulating men and doing a poor job of it than being women.

rehajm said...

Sorry she has passed…

I so want the first female elected President to be a Republican so we can appreciate more of these delicious tears…

Shouting Thomas said...

My daughter is a public school teacher. She’s completely overwhelmed, even with grandpa as a live in babysitter, with the demands of raising three children under 10. The school district bends over backwards to give her copious time off, probably more than she’s contractually allowed.

I think she’s going to have to consider a leave of absence to care for the kids. The grandkids are demanding it, and they need it.

It’s not a stereotype that a woman can’t raise young children and handle a demanding job. It’s reality. This is a good thing, too. Mom’s should be home taking care of their kids when they are young, not handing them over to institutional care, for further indoctrination in feminist lies.

The notion that recognizing this reality of human nature is some kind of prejudice is ripe bullshit.

gilbar said...

it's Not as if she was even the first lady trying for the democray nomination to start crying..
Remember Edmund Muskellunge

Amadeus 48 said...

Tears have their purposes.

Winston Churchill acknowledged, "I am a blubberer". No shame in that.

I had a partner at my law firm who was proud that he could call up tears in his summations in front of a jury.

Dave Begley said...

Better than Hillary. Better than Kamala. Better than Warren.

Tina Trent said...

You said in the previous post you did on this "symbolic" shedding of female infants' blood, that we don't object to all sorts of piercings in our society, so why should we object to a religious excuse for one.

Because it's not the infant consenting to be mutilated, even slightly. Also, because the act itself is designed to demean the female infant or adolescent girl and teach her her place as an inferior being, not perform some pathetic self-expression via sad grotesqueries such as nose rings.

Schroeder was a tough woman, and she certainly faced severe discrimination in Congress. But she was an unappealing candidate in that election for many reasons. And the unreasonable feminists who lashed out at her only cemented the legacy of her tears.

Most of her legislation was so elitist that it did nothing for the vast majority of working women. When you compromise to create symbolic "rights" that only benefit the elite of the working world, then your compromises abandon the very causes you seek to remedy on the cutting room floor, as it were.

iowan2 said...

I was watching a piece on the news about Gavin Newsome, wondering what this person had done in his life to get him elected to Governor of California, and shortlisted as Dem candidate for President. At the same time I was opening my computer to see what the internets had curated for me. I see this post on Schroeder, so I expanded my question.
Both have never really accomplished anything other than getting credentialed, then elected. Newsome was the face of a wine/restaurant business funded and operated by Getty. Then got appointed by...Willy Brown, to some open bureaucratic govt agencies before running for office. Schoeder lawyer working for leftist causes like planned parenthood, before getting elected to the House.

I see a pattern that is the core of our leadership problem.

Shouting Thomas said...

Kids want their mommy. They don’t want their daddy or grandpa as a full time caretaker. Kids need full time adult care until they are 12 to 15 years old. They need as much of this care as they can get.

We’ve got three adults in my household caring for the kids. The grandkids always demand their mother, particularly when they are sick or struggling at school. They don’t give a shit about Althouse’s ideology. They want and need their mommy.

Althouse’s ideology has failed spectacularly, and she isn’t noticing. Her fake victim nonsense has created a national psychosis so powerful that people are forced to pretend in public that a man dressed in drag is actually a woman.

You’re the oppressor now, Althouse. This is what is blinding you. Your crazy, psychotic ideology has forced us all into pretending to live in a fantasy world.

RMc said...

I cried on the air once and told the listening audience, "It's OK, folks. I'm a Detroit Lions fan. We cry a lot!"

RMc said...

The episode outraged some feminists, who said her tears had reinforced stereotypes and set back the cause of women seeking office.

It's not a good idea to ally yourselves with people who are "outraged" over normal human emotions.

Temujin said...

I disagreed with her on probably most things in those days. (probably...though I don't recall any specifics at this moment). But reading about her doesn't bring back any gut feelings other than respect for her. Some things were very different not that long ago. We could disagree with people without hating them. Without knowing- not thinking, but knowing- that they are just lying, ignorant thieves as so many in Congress are today.

Today's Congressional creatures are just not very bright, most of them. Not very likable, not at all competent. Way too many are there for awful reasons, none of which include competence. And they seem to rely on younger staffers who know even less. And they are the ones leading this country.

I may not have agreed with Ms. Schroeder, but I at least respected she was competent, smart, and strong enough to be a woman fighting for things in a time when it was harder for women. It's just not so today and it's precisely because of people like her...(and our host).

Big Mike said...

My recollection of her was how much grief and bullshit she gave Gerald Ford — insisting, with no evidence whatsoever that there must have been a quid pro quo when Nixon resigned that Ford would later pardon him. Then later, during the Clinton years, she insisted that she and her colleagues had treated President Ford with respect (in contrast to the way Republicans under Gingrich were treating Bill Clinton).

Badgering a man until he can’t do his job — only the most important job in the country. Calling a man a liar to his face. That’s treating him with respect? Who jnew?

Enigma said...

I try to not speak ill of the dead, particularly one who believed in her ideology. Still, she's been defined politically so it's unavoidable.

The crying episode followed the Mondale / Ferraro blowout of 1984, and in combination reinforced the struggles of women in US politics. That was followed by Hillary's failure in 2016 and Kamala now...

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

Gilbar beat me to it with the Muskie reference. Let's just say it's generally not encouraged for politicians to cry in public--or maybe it is worse on TV, the "cool" medium. Don't get too hot.

Nixon as I recall cried about his Quaker mother as he was heading for the Marine One chopper for the last time. Churchill was known for crying quite frequently. Was he forgiven where a woman would not have been? There were very few women in politics at the time. Some of the famous suffragettes screamed at him and threatened violence at public events; there may have been some crying.

Steven Wilson said...

Winston Churchill was renowned for crying in public. He described himself as a "blubber." Of course, he was usually crying at funerals or when he contemplated such things as "When has so much been owed by so many to so few." Just food for thought.

Steven Wilson said...

Oh and by the way, RIP to Ms. Schroeder and to the flopper.

Václav Patrik Šulik said...

I will always think of her as "Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs" (as the 7 Dem male candidates were known). She had a mean/cruel streak which was not appealing. Plus she was arrogant. Nevertheless, she had more integrity than most of the dwarfs, especially Cheaty, who later became President (Sniffy?). [Dukakis and Gephardt weren't so bad.]

Jamie said...

I noticed the tags before clicking through and was curious indeed about the link between Schroeder and FGM!

With respect, Shouting Thomas, the demands of motherhood depend on a lot of things, including the personalities of the children, the father, and the mother.

I had three kids under 8 when I took a supposedly part-time job running a preschool; it turned out to be more than full-time, and my younger two (of preschool age) were cared for by one of my teachers while I was doing the part of the job that didn't take place during preschool hours. I was fortunate that my children were "easy," as the saying goes, and also that I was raised by a schoolteacher and military-spouse mother who had her three kids in the space of 4 1/2 years. She took time off from teaching until we were 8, 6, and 4, but she taught us to be latchkey kids and was herself excruciatingly organized, because when she first started back, my dad was assigned as an adjunct at University of Iowa and an ROTC recruiter across the whole area and was gone a LOT.

So my mom was a single parent I'd say about half time during those years, and she ran our house like an operating room. I was never as good at it as she was, but I got good enough that even when my husband was traveling for work (much less frequently than my dad had), we'd only order pizza once per business trip.

My daughter is now double majoring in math and finance, on the Dean's list every semester, working about 15-20 hours a week, and (sigh) lives with her boyfriend and the kitten he so kindly but short-sightedly gave her, and she puts a home-cooked dinner on the table every night.

Then there's the example of our friends, the husband a stay-at-home dad from the birth of their older child until their younger one started college and the wife the breadwinner to this day.

I'll add that I became a stay-at-home mom later, when I really could have had a job without affecting my kids much at all.

Circumstances alter cases. With your help your daughter and your grandkids will surely thrive, but I'm sorry for her overwhelmed-ness.

Earnest Prole said...

Feminism then was asking the same question as Henry Higgins: Why can’t a woman be more like a man?

Inga said...

Laura Loomer broke into tears as she claimed without evidence that she was illegally robbed of a Republican primary victory on Tuesday.


I’m sure she was very upset, she’s human after all.

Lexington Green said...

“ The episode outraged some feminists …”

True of most episodes.

Being outraged is their main activity.

Nancy Reyes said...

re female circumcision: it predates Islam, and the prophet himself when asked advised just to cut a little.
The type practiced in the Sahel and Middle East is terrible, and can cause many problems with childbirth. The WHO is actively fighting the practice.
But in Indonesia, the custom is indeed a minor snip

Sebastian said...

"said her tears had reinforced stereotypes and set back the cause of women seeking office"

Huh? Women's feelz rule. Tears are best.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Fascinating how the media still ask females, like they did during the ACB nomination, how they can raise children and do their jobs at the same time. Never men, but they haven’t stopped asking women that.

guitar joe said...

"Both have never really accomplished anything other than getting credentialed, then elected. "

I came away with a far different impression of Schroeder. Her first election was a longshot, and she beat an overconfident opponent. She accomplished a lot during her time in Congress and she seems to have been independent, often voting against the wishes of other members of her party. She was effective during a time when people in Congress actually did things.

Jupiter said...

How did the kids turn out?

gspencer said...

She was a Democrat. So she was a POS.

JAORE said...

The older I get the more I cry.

I do not recall her as fragile during her congressional tenure. Certainly not as fragile (I am woman, hear me whimper) as today's lefty ladies.

Dude1394 said...

Boy women sure can be catty.

Big Mike said...

Shouting Thomas said...

Kids want their mommy.


Experience makes me agree with Jamie: “With respect, Shouting Thomas, the demands of motherhood depend on a lot of things, including the personalities of the children, the father, and the mother.”

Our firstborn was a very easy baby, and a very good traveler. We ascribed this, of course, to our great parenting skills. Child #2 disabused us.

Lurker21 said...

Her first opponent, who had only won because of the Nixon landslide, didn't take her seriously, didn't bother to campaign much, and dismissed her as "Patsy," which may have been understandable, but she didn't like it. There's a lesson in there. One way or another, incumbents have to take their opponents seriously. If Caleb Boggs had, the country might have been spared what we are going through now.

Schroeder was smart and sharp-tongued and did her bit to create today's political environment where zingers take the place of reasoned debate. Arguably DC was bad enough before, but if "boring" and "normal" was good then Schroeder and her generation of Democrats have to shoulder some of the blame for making politics a game of "owning" or "pwning" the other side.

n.n said...

Progressive (i.e. unqualified monotonic): one step forward, two steps backwards.

Progressive "causes" of no consequence. Forward!

n.n said...

Boy women sure can be catty.

Feminists vs women.

Bruce Hayden said...

Met the witch one time. I was working as an auditor for the City and County of Denver, and she was our Congresscritter. She swung by on a campaign stop, we all lined up dutifully to meet her. She shook our hands - except that she didn’t. She just stuck her hand out like a dead fish, and we shook her dead fish. My impression of her, and politicians in general, marred permanently by that. By then, I was already a Republican, which is probably why I never quite fit in that office. The city government employees were one of her bigger constituencies. That didn’t include me. Still, Harvard Law, back then, meant that she was no slouch.

I always thought that Schroeder was a dingbat, but when she retired, she was replaced by Dianne DeGette, who turned out to be worse. The year she was elected to Congress, we had 2 alums from my alma mater newly elected to Congress, both from Colorado, and both Dems. She wrote an article every quarter for the alumni magazine on how exciting it was. For the guy, he just had a tasteful mention. As did Liz Cheney a decade or so later. It was all about her. She had won election in the bluest district in Colorado as a Democrat, made safe for radical women by Schroeder, and we were somehow supposed to revere her for it. At least Schroeder was somewhat a trailblazer. DeGette, taking over her seat, not even close.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

Yeah, I remember them asking her about how could she be a mother and a legislator both. It was like every day. They never asked about anything else. Every morning she had to answer that question again. It's a good thing we have the NYT to remind us that this was the most important tough question she faced.

guitar joe said...

"She was a Democrat. So she was a POS."

This is the kind of thing that, as a Democrat, always bothered me when my friends said it about Republicans. Disagree with the other side, fine. But do you really think you can pass this kind of statement off as nuanced and clever? I dislike Trump intensely, but when Robert De Niro said "Fuck Trump," he was the one who looked stupid.

Michael K said...

Our firstborn was a very easy baby, and a very good traveler. We ascribed this, of course, to our great parenting skills. Child #2 disabused us.

This is the old tradition of "muffin baby" and "crocodile baby." If Baby #1 is a muffin baby, there will usually be more babies. If the first is a crocodile, only child is often the result. I experienced this with my first two but both are now lawyers so predictions don't hold up.

RMc said...

Fun fact: Mike McKevitt (who won in 1970 but lost to Schroeder two years later) is the only Republican to represent Colorado's 1st District in over three-quarters of a century (1947).

RMc said...

Fun fact: Mike McKevitt (who won in 1970 but lost to Schroeder two years later) is the only Republican to represent Colorado's 1st District in over three-quarters of a century (since 1947).

Michael K said...

Schroeder went to war with the Navy pilots over tailhook. She was hated and her name was used as an epithet by pilots for years. Maybe her death will end it. She tried to end it, which is to her credit.

SAN DIEGO —

Rep. Pat Schroeder offered an olive branch Saturday to Navy aviators disciplined last year for attacking her in two vulgar skits and denied charges that she ruined dozens of careers by pressing for an aggressive investigation of the Tailhook sex scandal.

Schroeder, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, explained her position against sexual harassment in the military in two private meetings with 16 officers and enlisted personnel at the Miramar Naval Air Station.

The 10-term Colorado Democrat said she asked for the meeting to end the hostility against her and other women by Navy aviators, who resented her attack on the Navy’s less-than-thorough investigation of the 1991 Tailhook sex scandal.


Her actions ended some careers of people who were innocent. Her treatment of Bob Stumpf is never to be forgiven by the Navy.

The story has all the makings of a summer blockbuster: a clean-cut American boy realizes his lifelong dream of flying jets from aircraft carriers. He brilliantly answers his nation's call in a time of war and goes on to command his own fighter squadron. Just when he thinks it can't get any better, he's awarded command of the Blue Angels, selected for the rank of captain, and slated for follow-on assignment as a carrier air wing commander.

Cut to the bowels of the Russell Senate Office Building. In a dimly lit room, members of a cabal gather for a staff meeting of a different sort. Tales of bacchanals surrounding the Tailhook convention of naval aviators have given them designs on shifting the status quo in their favor. They're planning an inquisition but need plausible heretics. None readily emerges.

Then a mole floats the cabal a bit of innuendo linking the war-tested Blue Angels skipper to the convention. Participants in the cabal zealously pursue the officer, but in the course of due process come up empty-handed. Their anger grows with each day that passes without a body to cast into the depths of hell. The cabal changes the rules and goes after the officer again, this time with more vengeance.

Jupiter said...

"This is the kind of thing that, as a Democrat, always bothered me when my friends said it about Republicans."

Listen, joe. You just told us that you believe in the right of doctors to accept payment for castrating healthy children, and you believe that anyone who opposes that right should be imprisoned. Why don't you just tattoo it on your forehead; POS.

Wince said...

She always seemed to be squinting.

Iman said...

Embrace the power of “and”, guitarjoe.

gahrie said...

I am struck but the outrage that was expressed at the idea of FGM mere years ago when today we are told that we are haters if we don't let them mutilate children.

n.n said...

masculinism

Drago said...

Patsy Schroeder....not solely responsible but greatly responsible for using the Tailhook '91 event to force the BRAC commission to "consolidate" the Navy's Top Gun command from Miramar, San Diego, with NAS Fallon in Nevada...and all as punishment because the aviators at Miramar dared to lob a couple insults Patsy's way during a Foc'sle Follies at the Miramar Officers Club.

Patsy and crew ended over 300+ navy careers, even of the highest rated officers. Any officer who simply was in Las Vegas at the time had their "jackets" (service records) flagged and they were later forced out.

Here's a little background: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-08-07-mn-4855-story.html

Clinton/Gore also used the opportunity to begin large scale purges of military leadership and replaced them with democratical lackeys. Obama accelerated that plan, as they did with the FBI/CIA/NSA/etc and we are left with what you see now: General Milley Vanilli lecturing congresscritters on CRT and white supremacy.

Joe Smith said...

She always seemed like a scold to me...

Joe Smith said...

Maybe if she'd had bigger shoulder pads and bigger hair...

guitar joe said...

"Listen, joe. You just told us that you believe in the right of doctors to accept payment for castrating healthy children, and you believe that anyone who opposes that right should be imprisoned. Why don't you just tattoo it on your forehead; POS."

Where did I say that? When have I ever said any of that?

SoLastMillennium said...

Baseball. There is no crying in baseball. (Politics I don't know much about)

A quote for my fellow geezers.

takirks said...

Patsy Schroeder is going to leave a legacy of dead bodies that few will connect with her and her little cabal of "women's rights activists". She was key and essential to the DACOWITS pressure that kept the Army from doing anything rational about integrating women into the military, and her malign influence is with us to this day.

Raw fact? The vast majority of women fall into a physical category that precludes frontline military service. They don't have the upper body strength, and they don't have the mass. The Army had an initiative back in the early 1980s to try to fairly deal with this fact by instituting strength testing upon accession. Schroeder and her coterie of harpies claimed that this was back-door sexism, rather than common sense. So, they raised hell in Congress, the Army acquiesced, and all the other branches fell in line.

Next time you hear about some Navy ship sinking because the physically unqualified sailors couldn't (wo)manhandle the portable pumps and shoring materials they needed to, or that some Army unit has been defeated due to physically unfit people being unable to keep up on a Chosin Reservoir-like retreat? Remember Patsy Schroeder, who sacrificed your sons and daughters upon the irrational altar of "sexual equality".

I presume that cancer failed to take her earlier out of professional courtesy.

There are some people who seem harmless until you look at their actual historical effect on things. She's one of those.

Ralph L said...

She seemed honest and sane compared to our current ruling class. How's that for an epitaph--or epithet?