That's putting it brutally — in the comments to the WaPo article "Flight attendants want to ban lap-babies on planes/Experts agree that flying with a baby in your lap is a safety risk, but regulators still allow it."
This isn't really about safety, is it? Safety is the leverage. The truth is people don't like babies and toddlers on planes and requiring them to have a paid-for seat will lower the number of these deprecated humans.
Posts
73 comments:
There is a Simple Solution, to ALL these Problems
Abortion!
IF, we just Abort.. Every Pregnancy.. within about 100 years, ALL our problems will be Through!
Children are The Problem! Abortion (of Every Pregnancy) is The Answer!!!
"deprecate" is a good word.
It has a new meaning in the software industry. It means that a feature is no longer deemed worthwhile and while it may continue to function it will not be available in sooner or later. As in "this feature is deprecated and will be removed in later versions"
if I design-build a faux-womb-like-papoose for strapping baby-child to parental unit can I crowd fund it?
The truth is people don't like babies and toddlers on planes
Or anywhere, really. So let's stop pretending this is about planes.
Like gun control, baby control isn't about "sensible regulation" but an outright ban.
I understand the problem with infants on flights is that their tiny ear canals don't permit easy adjustment to altitude change, resulting in screaming discomfort that normal parent comforting won't relieve. No reason to assume that separate seating would make any difference. I would never have considered flying with either of my kids when they were infants.
Now do really fat people...
I flew with Oma and Aunt Louise to NYC (and back) in 1963(?) Pretty sure it was a 707. The next year, we flew to Europe (and back) and made some short hops there, so I experienced the 707, DC-3s (short hops in Germany) and the great old Lockheed Constellation triple-tailed turboprop . . .
My older brother missed out because he was an asshole, and proved it on a road trip Oma and Louise took with him a few years before; my mother and younger brothers rode the train to DC to visit relatives while I was in Europe. But that was all the travel any of us did-- after car trips before our father died--until we were able to go where we wanted as adults.
Which turned out to be mostly nowhere for the others. I've been back to Europe three times since my wife and I Eurailed in '78 (once business, twice pleasure) and am eager to get back--the eternal optimist.
Those early trips shaped me in ways big and small.
What, no throwing shade on people that fly?
Civilization is invaded by barbarians once a generation, we call them children. The truth is that people just don't like other people's kids. On a flight, in a restaurant or in a theater. If these folks get their way we will raise a generation of barbarians that aren't going to be civilized.
And I'll bet these folks will howl when their grandchildren never visit because flights are so expensive.
I was flying next to a couple - maybe 90 minute flight -- who had a 2 year old girl and another child. Girl was in the middle seat, mom in aisle and I was by window (father and other kid were across aisle). It became fairly clear that the little girl had previously thrown up on every single flight she had taken. Her parents were doing everything they could to keep her distracted. The flight ended and she had not thrown up. Everyone cheered.
I got off after them, and the poor little 2 year old made it 5 feet outside of the door of the plane before hurling all over the jet bridge.
On your lap they are squirming, screaming little terrors and possibly a 20-30lb projectile.
Divide number of people on airplanes injured by 20-30lb human shaped projectiles by the number of airline passengers over, oh, the last 20 years.
Clearly, someone needs to rethink the meaning of the word "possibly".
As you say, "squirming, screaming little terrors" is the only reason the comment exists.
deprecated humans.
Defecating humans.
I never flew until I was 22. In 1983, rolling down the runway of National Airport, headed for the 14th Street Bridge, the lady across the aisle says "Air Florida." Fortunately, it was June, so ice wasn't a worry, except for my veins.
Getting in the plane at Heathrow in 1985, a large Cadbury bar slipped out of the duty-free bag I was putting in the overhead and beaned an infant on the head. Lord knows what kind of brain damage occurred, but the young woman holding him, who looked like the Bon Ami girl, wasn't upset, so she must not have been his mother. I don't remember the kid being a problem after the initial wail, but that may just be my guilt.
As the article points out, the safety issue is a bit complicated, since if you shunt families with small kids away from planes and to cars, you will increase the deaths among small children.
There is a great 1993 movie about the Sioux City crash that is referenced in the article called Fearless, with Jeff Bridges and Rosie Perez. He is on the flight and survives. Rosie is on the flight holding her baby. She lives, the baby does not. Jeff starts to attend group therapy sessions with the other survivors. In one scene, he puts Rosie in the back seat of his car and gives her a tool box, and asks her to hold it as tightly as she can. He then drives at a fair speed inot a brick wall. The tool kit goes crashing through the windshield. Highly recommended movie.
It depends on the child. Our first-born (who will be 40 this summer) was a marvelous traveler, who flew with us to the Caribbean when he was one, and caused no trouble whatsoever. He sat silently, eyes open as wide as possible, drinking in everything around him. As new parents we were certain this was due mostly to our great parenting skills, of course. The second son disabused us. He was high-strung, and nearly anything could set him to screaming. One flight was all it took to convince us to vacation where we could drive for a few years.
In both cases we paid for the child’s seat. Seating had nothing to do with whether the child was a good traveler or a terror.
Younger son, the one who was an high strung baby, and his wife flew to New Mexico not long ago with their eight month old son. Lucky for them, the boy is a good traveler the way his uncle was.
I flew international from China to America 4 times with very young children, though none less than 14 months old. Never had a problem. Anecdote FTW.
Babies on planes don't bother me. What bothers me is adults who stink, or take up 1 1/2-2 seats, or drink too much and become obnoxious. Or the ones who just lean back with their mouths agape, sending out snores that sound like we lost an engine with each breath. I flew for most of my working life. Kids never bothered me. The adults did.
Also, the people I admire most in my times were young, single mom's dragging 1-2 kids and all of their luggage and seating gear by themselves, through an airport, onto a plane, and then keeping them occupied during the flight. Exhaustion? Hell...my life never saw that kind of mental and physical workout, and I've done a lot.
All that said- there's so much the airlines have us do to get ready for take off, including making sure your purse or backpack is shoved as far under the seat in front of you as possible. But your baby can sit freely on your lap? It really doesn't make sense.
My first airplane trip was, I would guess, when I was maybe six or seven months old? I have all my old passports somewhere so I suppose I could check, since countries all had entry stamps back then. I think it was to Colombia. I remember travelling pretty regularly as a small child. The pilots (or perhaps the stewardesses?) on one of the airlines we used had little winged pins they handed out to small children, and I remember enjoying my little collection of them.
In those days, it was apparently much more inconvenient to take babies on planes, but nowadays, if you make proper arrangements in advance, you can get seats with bassinets, at least on the big planes. I don't know how much that helps with the baby noise (I'm sure they still suffer through the pressure changes and cry with pain, especially on the older machines), but it's surely more convenient for everyone else not to have the children squirming about.
The biggest problem for me (as a fellow passenger) isn't the babies, though -- it's the children who are big enough to get up and wander around the airplane or kick the seat in front of them in boredom and frustration. Five or six hours (cross-country US) or ten or twelve hours (trans-Pacific) is an awfully long time for a four or five year old child to sit still, and there's really not much space in a full plane for them to run about.
I'll never understand why airlines don't have sections of the plane specifically for families with babies and kids. Let them all sit together and make each other miserable. Add a barrier between those with kids and those without. Problem solved.
I didn’t fly until I was 17. Every family vacation or trip to see relatives was done by car.
Many trips from Delaware to Ann Arbor… in pre-interstate days.
Lots of time for my mother to sing about Ohio, a la Doris Day
https://youtu.be/IkIe_wgnGfI
I don't mind crying babies on short flights. But on overnight, long haul, transcontinental flights, they can be a real problem if you're hoping to get a few hours of sleep.
"If you INSIST on flying with all of your aesthetic preferences met, purchase a First Class ticket !!!! If you can't afford the First Class ticket then DON"T FLY to your destination!"
Or more generically:
"If you INSIST on flying with [thing that I find annoying], purchase [another product that doesn't meet the need but increases the cost] !!!! If you can't afford the [other product] then DON"T FLY to your destination!"
Or even more generically:
"If you INSIST on [doing thing that I don't like], you should be forced to pay a higher price [because I don't like it. It won't actually solve a problem, but I'll feel better]!!! If you can't afford the higher price, then DON'T [do the thing that I don't like]!
The baby "burden"... uh, burden. The child cargo. The kid kaboodle. Will no one rid me of this turbulent toddler.
About 23 years ago my son and I needed to fly from San Diego to Boston. We were meeting my husband (who had been on business travel in Europe) for a family wedding. My son was under two years old. At a checkup appointment with our family doctor I asked the best way to travel with my son. She said to fly red eye so he would be sleepy and she also said to give him a dose of children’s pain reliever (a similar approach to what you do prior to vaccine appointments). It worked great he slept the entire trip.
I knew we were going to be driving on the trip so I had his car seat and we had paid for a seat for him. This was the only time I have gotten into a disagreement with a flight attendant. Maybe because it was a red eye without a lot of passengers but they didn’t let me pre board. I had barely gotten onto the plane and the attendant was telling me to buckle my son in so they could prepare to pull away. I told her I would as soon as I got his car seat in place. She didn’t want me to do that. She wanted to take the car seat. A very nice gentleman helped me get the seat in place with the attendant complaining the whole time. I was pretty bitter about the whole process and have never flown Delta again.
In my experience it's older children (post-toddler and pre-teen) who can be a royal pain on airplanes. Yeah babies cry and fuss sometimes, then you feed them and/or they sleep. "Older" kids are full of energy and sometimes don't know how to behave in public.
For the record "can be" = very rarely. I work in the Children's Room at our Main library branch, and library staff know the worst patrons are adults. Most "incident reports" in our reporting system are about adults who can be rude, loud, angry, confrontational, drunk, high, demanding. Some cause trouble so regularly we call them "problem patrons". We almost never have problems with children.
Babies! What are ya gonna do… can’t travel with ‘em, can’t kill… erm… heh…
Never mind.
if you're hoping to get a few hours of sleep.
Sucker.
Sleep on any flight is a gift, not an expectation.
I have the mileage account to prove it.
Flying is a safety risk. What are the numbers on infants and toddlers harmed each year in the US because they were not restrained in a seat on an airplane? None are provided, although there is some mention of a 2003 study, but it actually makes the point that the safety risk from flying is smaller than many other risks.
What is interesting are the two anecdotal stories mentioned:
The 1989 United Flight 232 Sioux City, Iowa crash (video here, and while watching keep in mind the article notes of the infants onboard 3 suffered injuried and 1 died - 112 out of all 296 people onboard died.)
The 1994 USAir crash in Charlotte. 37 died on that flight, the article notes 1 was an infant.
However, the recommended Child Restraint System (CRS) is essentially a harness, similar to what climbers or workers might wear for falls from heights. It doesn't look like it would restrict other passengers in the event of evacuation like a car seat would, and they cost $30 to $120.
Reading WaPo comments section is its own Safety Risk, and the only restraint is yourself.
I didn’t fly until the age of 26. And my first flight was from SoCal to Hawaii. On a DC-10… which was a fleet that was put back in service the very same week of our trip after being grounded after the crash in Chicago in the summer of ‘79.
I was white-knuckling it the entire time, lol.
If you want endless crying on every flight then yes, mandate separate seats for babies.
Elaborate car seats are required for infants in cars, and planes go a lot faster than cars. An impact that leaves a restrained adult with a few bruises can turn an unrestrained bundle of joy into 20 lbs of strawberry jam, and “awww...” into “eeeuww...” So maybe it is about safety, a little bit.
Maybe just purchase some better noise-cancelling headphones, or, if you can't afford those, some ear plugs. Either will do wonders to minimize one's exposure to outside noise on the plane.
Divide number of people on airplanes injured by 20-30lb human shaped projectiles by the number of airline passengers over, oh, the last 20 years.
Better yet, use the number of survivors of airline accidents/incidents as denominator.
Julia doesn’t have children.
And babies and toddlers on planes bother Julia because they remind her she’s going extinct.
I love babies on planes. They are the future.
I haven’t seen any videos of babies fighting on a plane, or stinking drunk and cussing out the flight attendants but I’ve seen plenty of adults do these things. I would absolutely fly an all families airline over one packed with entitled adults.
I would assume that most people travel with young children for the same reason I traveled with young children: we're trying to visit our parents. Blame cheap airline fares. My spouse and I just did a longer flight last year. Both ways we were seated next to a woman with a lap child. It was totally fine. I've rarely had an issue with loud kids on flights.
Spouse had a woman with a lap dog on a flight one time. He says that was way worse.
I HATE people who drag their infants/toddlers on a plane.
No one hates as much as the left. Hate this, hate that, hate, hate, hate.
For others, it is a word they rarely, if ever, use.
Obese people are far worse. Ss are people who don't follow the regulations on size of carry-on items. What about trans babies?
Airlines don't let 20 pound toddlers fly on your lap. They're required to buckle into a seat.
I've flown many times with infants. I'd tuck the baby in a sling and nurse it during takeoff and landing. The jaw action while breastfeeding relieves the ear pressure.
Older kids (and I) chew gum to open the ear canal.
gilbar said...
There is a Simple Solution, to ALL these Problems Abortion! IF, we just Abort.. Every Pregnancy.. within about 100 years, ALL our problems will be Through! Children are The Problem! Abortion (of Every Pregnancy) is The Answer!!!
But Wait!!!
There is on Other SOLUTION.
We can leve SOME coments on Blogs. Some of the words could Be Capitalized For NO Apparent reason. Meanwhile other words could be COULD BE ENTIRELY Capitalized.
Serious question… What Do YOU think???
ALP: "I'll never understand why airlines don't have sections of the plane specifically for families with babies and kids." Because you end up with 1) a lot of unsold seats in the 'baby' section and 2) fewer seats available for adults.
If they cry, they cry. I'm not going to begrudge some anonymous grandparent a visit with grandchildren just because I think the grandchildren are annoying.
The only parent who really irritated me in a plane was one who refused to give her crying preschooler a sucker because she was limiting candy. Lady, it ain't the time. The kid's ears needed to pop.
Our kids never cried on planes. Pure luck.
Animal parents are the terrible ones. No, I do not want to sit by your gigantic dog in the aisle. What the hell.
I will say I find it odd that someone can fly with a 15 pound baby on their lap but I have to put me 3 pound laptop away during takeoff and landing.
@leland said: "It doesn't look like it would restrict other passengers in the event of evacuation like a car seat would, and they cost $30 to $120."
When we flew with our daughter, we had to put the car seat in the window seat.
My first flight was at age 19 or 20 -- to NC for a job interview for a summer job with IBM -- the job that convinced me to abandon Comp Sci as a career. Also I lived with a druggie that summer. Fun times.
My older son took his first flight at 13 weeks. I bought him a seat and dragged the car seat along (I was alone). It was hell and there was luggage everywhere, but he was a good baby and handled it well. I had it all set time-wise that I would feed him a bottle at takeoff, so the pressure wouldn't bother his ears; I could do this easily with him in his car seat. Then the flight attendant came along and demanded I take him OUT of the car seat for takeoff. So one of the most dangerous times in a flight, and you want me holding the baby, not having him strapped into a safe seat? He flew 3 more times before his 1st birthday and this lady was the only one who thought this was a good idea. He's 23 now and I still think she's was an idiot.
It is true that what whiny people like this really want is no babies in public at all. They hate them in restaurants, on planes, in church, everywhere. Our society is much poorer for this attitude. Last Sunday we had a toddler make a break for it during the Veneration of the Cross (halfway point of Great Lent, super solemn occasion with everyone on their knees). The kid headed straight back toward the altar, and a server grabbed him just as he crossed beyond the iconostasis. Our priest spoke about it later and thanked all the parents for bringing their kids to church. That's how you treat children in public, by being grateful they're there at all. Are they a bit noisy during Liturgy? Sure. What would the church be without them? Dying, that's what.
What bugs me are adults who act like little brats. But enough about Congress.
I experienced my first family vacation flight at 10. Child #4, a toddler, was left in the care of the nanny who helped his first weeks, and her hubby. Upon our return, he cried bitterly when my parents collected him. My mom never left anyone behind again.
I am closing in on three million miles on Delta. My years on Pan Am, Eastern, TWA, Southern and various other airlines probably add another million. I put on noise cancelling earphones the moment I sit down. Other than the incessant announcements by flight attendants I am unbothered. I prefer Wagner up to the point we level out then switch to something more soothing. I am not troubled by kids but think it insane to hold one on the lap. I have been in turbulence that has sent carts airborne and always keep my seatbelt fastened. Those that don’t are idiots. Clear air turbulence is the worst. The first million or so miles I flew terrified and knew every sound on every make of plane and knew the causes of every air disaster. At some point and for no apparent reason I ceased being fearful. In all those miles I experienced only one serious incident where the engines on a 767 conked out. One was restarted and we returned to sfo and runway surrounded by emergency vehicles. Because we were over Oakland when the “incident” occurred I felt certain we would crash in the bay and avoid a fiery ending.
Are they a bit noisy during Liturgy?
===
so the liturgist(?) was not so·no·rous? = Having or producing a full, deep, or rich sound.
The Origin of The Phrase
One of the most interesting facts about the phrase “Music soothe the savage beast” is that it is actually wrong. The correct phrase is ‘breast’ and not ‘beast,’ as so many think it is. The actual quote or phrase was originally coined by William Congreve. He was a poet of the restoration period and an English playwright.
is the baby progressive Wisconsin / Madison Forward or reactionary MAGA
FORWARD or REAR
But your baby can sit freely on your lap? It really doesn't make sense.
========
I shall take a look next time I fly >>> if seat belt goes around baby or not!
I don't enjoy a screaming baby on a plane. I doubt the parent is having a good time either. And maybe they don't have any other option bu to take that flight.
The thing about flying is that the seat belts only provide minimal protection against injury. (Like the early seat belts in cars.) If strapping someone securely into an airline seat actually provided a much higher survival rate, we'd have more elaborate restraint systems on airline seats. And no engineer has ever suggested any kind of airbag system for passenger planes. Also, the seats themselves are not attached to the floor that securely. (Seriously, the seats in your car are attached with much stronger hardware.) How many times have you seen stories about passengers being blown out of the aircraft even though they were wearing seat belts, or even whole rows of seats being flung out of the aircraft during a crash. And there are examples of people drowning after a crash because they were restrained by their seat belt. I think that the general assumption is that seat belts are there for heavy turbulence, not crashes.
No one hates as much as the left. Hate this, hate that, hate, hate, hate.
#HateLovesAbortion, indeed. Also, they celebrate phobia with pride in parades.
A girl with breasts. Hate.
A boy with penis. Hate/envy relationship.
A mother with child. 1-2 tolerance.
Wars... Springs without borders. Love.
Twisted.
I don't like toddlers and babies on the planes either, but what are you going to do- they are over the age of 21.
It's a fact that banning "lap babies" on flights increases infant casualty rates, because of increased car travel.
But it's just a bundle of cells until it's old enough to change gender or attend a protest, so No Big Deal.
My first flight happened when I was 28- from Atlanta to NYC for a job interview. I flew quite a bit for the next 16 years for work and travel, but I haven't flown anywhere in the last 12 years. When I do get to travel again, I will probably do it by auto inside of North America- I will only fly again if it is overseas.
'I'd tuck the baby in a sling and nurse it during takeoff and landing.'
I tried doing this with my girlfriend once to alleviate the ear pressure.
They threatened to kick me off the plane : (
Is there a tag for GET-OFF-MY-LAWN!! YOU DAMN WHIPPERSNAPPER!!
Babies on planes is none of your business. :)
Whatever karens.
I always bought a seat for my babies. I was afraid of a runway accident or turbulence. We would only fly once a year to get somewhere warm. 3 hours in a plane to FL is better than 20 hours in the car with small children. They’ll cry in a car, too. They don’t sleep for 20 hours. I did fly with a nursing baby on my lap to a funeral. It was a short notice one. I did not like it, and I was always a big baby-wearer.
Who are these people that have issues with kids on planes? I know they exist but they certainly aren’t some massive segment of the flying public. Time was was the late 80’s through the early teens I was a high mileage business traveler (with no kids at the time I’ll add) and I encountered many a fussy kid, often when I just wanted to toss back a drink and relax. By the time we were in the air, with pressure in the ears, noise from the engine and whatever entertainment was on the drop down screens, any noise from the lil munchkins sort of blended in with all the other noise. And maybe the scotch. Yet it was usually the rare exception that anyone would take issue with it, I suspect because a lot of flyers have kids and remember what they went through when flying with their own. Even on a recent flight coming back from Hawaii with the late departure and early arrival and everyone on the plane exhausted there was a solo mom and babe in arms flying directly across the aisle from me and that poor little boy was just having some serious fits. It was their first time flying (not hers, but hers with an infant) and basically the entire little section of seats really rallied to help the mom, try to entertain the child and was just overwhelmingly gracious about the poor woman and babe’s plight. Everyone eventually fell asleep from exhaustion but nary a word of anger was made.
I know when I did have a child and we would fly with him, I was always very self conscious about him getting out of sorts but we were pretty fortunate in that he generally flew very well. And the times when he’d get upset, folks in the vicinity were always empathetic and supportive.
I’ll add that we always bought him a seat and would spread a little blanket on the floor between my wife’s seat and mine so he had lots of room to play with toys plus we had the extra space, fold down tray and under seat storage to make things much more comfortable for all three of us.
Well, that's not strictly true - up to a certain age, they can still fit in the overhead baggage compartments. Now if airlines would only improve the sound insulation on these areas, the problem would be solved and we could all breathe a sigh of relief.
You might think I'm being sarcastic, but when I was working in West Africa it was not unusual to have livestock in the passenger compartment - think chickens, baby pigs, so on - so maybe these pampered Americans should just count their blessings and eat their goddam peanuts.
Flying with a baby means exposing them to a tremendous amount of radiation. Bad idea.
I've been flying since I was 5 years old and that was a long time ago. Babies make noise, deal with it. Hell, I wish people could still smoke on airplanes. It might calm them down. If you have ever experienced real turbulence, you would know why infants should be securely restrained. Good luck holding on to that baby when the plane is at negative 3g's. I've seen drink carts hit the ceiling (along with the stewardess). That kind of force would turn a baby into marmalade.
I was sitting in a movie theater in the Caribbean once, years ago, and a baby commenced squalling terrifically, right in the middle of the picture. After a couple of unrelenting minutes, a very deep and gruff (and quite obviously Afro-) voice growled 'Somebody stuff a breast in that baby's mouf", which I guess happened on short order, because the crying stopped.
As Dr. Sowell says, “There are no solutions. There are trade-offs.“ This is true, even with air travel.
Personally, I love it when people travel with their children. It does not bother me in the least when kids cry on flights or kick my seat. I am sensitive to their anxieties, particularly not being able to equalize ear pressure, so I’m quite OK with that. The point made by others that adults’ behavior is worse certainly could be true.
I love reading the anecdotes in this comment thread, so here’s mine:
My wife and I have seven children. Some of our children were adopted from Korea, so they flew from Seoul to Minneapolis as infants, in exactly this kind of situation. We are forever grateful for that.
Since then, our family has flown as a group, with aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents even, maybe 10 times, with kids as young as 16 months. 9 of 10 times it went great. On one of the 9 occasions, the airline mixed up our seat assignments, and we had 5 kids under the age of 10 sitting all over the airplane. It went great. All of the adults sitting next to them were delighted to sit with and visit with them.
But, we decided to make a trip to Hawaii once. We flew nonstop from Minneapolis to Honolulu…8 hours. Going out there, the 16-month-old (who has always been a bit fussy) was fussy. But if I picked him up and walked him up and down the aisles, and did that bouncing, dad thing (dads know what I mean), he was quiet. Most people on the flight smiled at me and were quite gracious.
The flight back was in the middle of the night. While on vacation, this youngest son got an ear infection. When you go up in an airplane with an ear infection, the pressure in the ear increases, and it really hurts. He was doing that squealing cry…the one that indicates pain.
One of the flight attendants was very nice, and he allowed me to take my son to the galley in the back of the plane (30,000+ feet over the Pacific), and walk him back-and-forth, which offered him comfort, and he stopped crying.
About 20 minutes later, another flight attendant came in, and she barked, “Sir! You are supposed to be in your seat!”
Of course, I wanted to say, “Have you always been grumpy, or is it something you’ve developed over time?“
But I did not.
Not wanting them to divert the plane, and land and leave me at Midway Island, I promptly sat back in my seat with my squealing child. For the rest of the flight, he was squealing. Many people around us smiled sympathetically , even though they were trying to sleep, and offered their comfort.
This child is now 15 and our youngest son. He’s a peach. But, we have not flown to Hawaii since.
It's just another example of how society in general no longer appreciates children.
Also, my daughter would be screaming bloody murder if I had her in a car seat instead of on my lap. It takes very little effort to keep a nursing baby quiet.
And not all flying with kids is for fun. When my Grandma died, I had to take my daughter with me from Oregon all the way to Connecticut because I was still nursing. I wish I had taken her earlier so my Grandma could've met her grand-daughter, but I hadn't wanted to take her on a plane so young.
As Dr. Thomas Sowell says, “There are no solutions. There are trade-offs.” This is true, even with air travel.
Personally, I love it when fellow passengers travel with their children. It does not bother me when kids cry on flights or kick my seat. I am sensitive to their anxieties, particularly not being able to equalize ear pressure, so I’m quite OK with that. The point made by others that adults’ behavior is worse certainly could be true.
Thanks for Althouse for giving a forum for these anecdotes. I love reading them. Here is mine:
My wife and I have seven children. Some of our children were adopted from Korea, so they flew from Seoul to Minneapolis as infants, in exactly this kind of situation. We are forever grateful for that.
Since then, our family has flown as a group, with aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents even, maybe 10 times, with kids as young as 16 months.
9 of 10 times, it went great. On one of the 9 occasions, the airline mixed up our seat assignments, and we had 5 kids under the age of 11 sitting all over the airplane. It went great. All of the adults sitting next to them were delighted to sit with and visit with them.
But, the 10th one was a doozy. We decided to make a trip to Hawaii and flew nonstop from Minneapolis to Honolulu…8 hours. Going out there, the 16-month-old (who has always been a bit fussy) was fussy. But if I picked him up and walked him up and down the aisles, and did that bouncing, dad thing (dads know what I mean), he was quiet. Most people on the flight smiled at me and were quite gracious.
The flight back was in the middle of the night. While in Hawaii, this youngest son got an ear infection. When you go up in an airplane with an ear infection, the pressure in the ear increases, and it really hurts. He was doing that squealing cry thingy…the one that indicates pain.
One of the flight attendants was very nice, and he allowed me to take my son to the galley in the back of the plane (30,000+ feet over the Pacific), and walk him back-and-forth, which offered him comfort, and he stopped crying.
About 20 minutes later, another flight attendant came in, and she barked, “Sir! You are supposed to be in your seat!”
Of course, I wanted to say, “Have you always been grumpy, or is it something you’ve developed over time?"
But I did not.
Not wanting Delta to divert the plane, and land and leave me at Midway Island, I promptly sat back in my seat with my squealing child. For the rest of the flight, he was squealing. Did I mention that it was in the middle of the night? Many people around us smiled sympathetically, offering understanding eyes, even though they were trying to sleep.
This child is now 15 and our youngest son. He’s a peach. But, we have not flown to Hawaii since.
As Dr. Thomas Sowell says, “There are no solutions. There are trade-offs.” This is true, even with air travel.
Personally, I love it when fellow passengers travel with their children. It does not bother me when kids cry on flights or kick my seat. I am sensitive to their anxieties, particularly not being able to equalize ear pressure, so I’m quite OK with that. The point made by others that adults’ behavior is worse certainly could be true.
Thanks for Althouse for giving a forum for these anecdotes. I love reading them. Here is mine:
My wife and I have seven children. Some of our children were adopted from Korea, so they flew from Seoul to Minneapolis as infants, in exactly this kind of situation. We are forever grateful for that.
Since then, our family has flown as a group, with aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents even, maybe 10 times, with kids as young as 16 months. 9 of 10 times it went great. On one of the 9 occasions, the airline mixed up our seat assignments, and we had 5 kids under the age of 11 sitting all over the airplane. It went great. All of the adults sitting next to them were delighted to sit with and visit with them.
But, the 10th one was a doozy. We decided to make a trip to Hawaii and flew nonstop from Minneapolis to Honolulu…8 hours. Going out there, the 16-month-old (who has always been a bit fussy) was fussy. But if I picked him up and walked him up and down the aisles, and did that bouncing, dad thing (dads know what I mean), he was quiet. Most people on the flight smiled at me and were quite gracious.
The flight back was in the middle of the night. While on vacation, this youngest son got an ear infection. When you go up in an airplane with an ear infection, the pressure in the ear increases, and it really hurts. He was doing that squealing cry thingy…the one that indicates pain.
One of the flight attendants was very nice, and he allowed me to take my son to the galley in the back of the plane (30,000+ feet over the Pacific), and walk him back-and-forth, which offered him comfort, and he stopped crying.
About 20 minutes later, another flight attendant came in, and she barked, “Sir! You are supposed to be in your seat!”
Of course, I wanted to say, “Have you always been grumpy, or is it something you’ve developed over time?“
But I did not.
Not wanting Delta to divert the plane, and land and leave me at Midway Island, I promptly sat back in my seat with my squealing child. For the rest of the flight, he was squealing. Did I mention that it was in the middle of the night? Many people around us smiled sympathetically, offering understanding eyes, even though they were trying to sleep.
This child is now 15 and our youngest son. He’s a peach. But, we have not flown to Hawaii since.
As Dr. Sowell says, “There are no solutions. There are trade-offs.“ This is true, even with air travel.
Personally, I love it when people travel with their children. It does not bother me in the least when kids cry on flights or kick my seat. I am sensitive to their anxieties, particularly not being able to equalize ear pressure, so I’m quite OK with that. The point made by others that adults’ behavior is worse certainly could be true.
I love reading the anecdotes in this comment thread, so here’s mine:
My wife and I have seven children. Some of our children were adopted from Korea, so they flew from Seoul to Minneapolis as infants, in exactly this kind of situation. We are forever grateful for that.
Since then, our family has flown as a group, with aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents even, maybe 10 times, with kids as young as 16 months. 9 of 10 times it went great. On one of the 9 occasions, the airline mixed up our seat assignments, and we had 5 kids under the age of 10 sitting all over the airplane. It went great. All of the adults sitting next to them were delighted to sit with and visit with them.
But, we decided to make a trip to Hawaii once. We flew nonstop from Minneapolis to Honolulu…8 hours. Going out there, the 16-month-old (who has always been a bit fussy) was fussy. But if I picked him up and walked him up and down the aisles, and did that bouncing, dad thing (dads know what I mean), he was quiet. Most people on the flight smiled at me and were quite gracious.
The flight back was in the middle of the night. While on vacation, this youngest son got an ear infection. When you go up in an airplane with an ear infection, the pressure in the ear increases, and it really hurts. He was doing that squealing cry…the one that indicates pain.
One of the flight attendants was very nice, and he allowed me to take my son to the galley in the back of the plane (30,000+ feet over the Pacific), and walk him back-and-forth, which offered him comfort, and he stopped crying.
About 20 minutes later, another flight attendant came in, and she barked, “Sir! You are supposed to be in your seat!”
Of course, I wanted to say, “Have you always been grumpy, or is it something you’ve developed over time?“
But I did not.
Not wanting them to divert the plane, and land and leave me at Midway Island, I promptly sat back in my seat with my squealing child. For the rest of the flight, he was squealing. Many people around us smiled sympathetically , even though they were trying to sleep, and offered their comfort.
This child is now 15 and our youngest son. He’s a peach. But, we have not flown to Hawaii since.
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