Althouse: "'It would be difficult to have two emeritus popes,' a French bishop, Jean-Yves Riocreux, said... adding that the major difference for Francis after Benedict’s death was 'now he can resign.'"

January 8, 2023

"'It would be difficult to have two emeritus popes,' a French bishop, Jean-Yves Riocreux, said... adding that the major difference for Francis after Benedict’s death was 'now he can resign.'"

From "Benedict’s Burial Leaves Francis Alone, and Unbound/Liberal supporters of Francis, a pope never shy about exercising power, now anticipate a late-breaking season of change" (NYT).

34 comments:

Lurker21 said...: Yes, it looks like popes will have term limits before Congress does.; 1/8/23, 7:04 AM
rhhardin said...: That would open a spot for Pelosi.; 1/8/23, 7:06 AM
rwnutjob said...: "Liberal supporters?"
How about a cabal, led by Obama & Clinton deposing the rightful Pope, Benedict XVI, & installing the Communist anti-Pope, Francis.
requiescat in pace; 1/8/23, 7:07 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Somebody make sure Francis doesn’t get a leaky pen.

Just saying.; 1/8/23, 7:16 AM
gilbar said...: so who would be the New Pope? a marxist? oh they've got one already.. Maybe a trans?; 1/8/23, 7:18 AM
Saint Croix said...: It's possible that Jesus got married when he was 22, and had four kids. And his wife and family were all murdered when he was 29.

Getting married isn't a sin.

Having kids isn't a sin.

It's not a sin for priests to marry.

It's not a sin for priests to have children.

Peter, the first Pope, had a mother-in-law.

Jesus had numerous sisters and brothers, and at least one sibling thought he was crazy.

Jesus is fully human. If you can't recognize his humanity, your theology is messed up.

I assume that Joseph and Mary had sex and had children after the birth of Jesus.

It's more than a little insane to think that Joseph and Mary got married so that they could never have sex. Even if God calls you to be celibate, he doesn't simultaneously call on you to marry somebody and live with them. That's why celibate Catholic priests and celibate Catholic nuns don't have a wedding ceremony and live together in celibacy.

I wish the Catholic church would be a little more liberal about human sexuality. And I also wish Pope Francis would speak at the Walk of Life and condemn the baby-killers in the USA.; 1/8/23, 7:22 AM
Political Junkie said...: Here comes WOKE POPE.; 1/8/23, 7:23 AM
Saint Croix said...: If Pope Francis Wants to Shake Things Up

Show up at the Walk of Life

Give a small speech

"We in the Catholic church are sinners who fall short of the glory of God. We are often wrong about human sexuality. It is fine for priests to marry and have children. It is fine for priests to be women. It is fine to use birth control. But what is not fine is to have sex outside of marriage, deny your own child, kill your own child, hide the bodies, and pretend like you have done no wrong. I call on the Protestant churches to admit your sins, as we Catholics try to admit our sins. None of us are perfect. But I say to anyone who will listen...

God calls on us to love our children.; 1/8/23, 7:29 AM
ronetc said...: My favorite of all the Pope Francis jokes: The answer used to be yes to the question "Is the pope Catholic?"; 1/8/23, 7:41 AM
Ampersand said...: A nice Sunday topic. Not a theological liberal here, but it would be good to see the whole celibacy, and males only, things get the old heave-ho. The apostles had wives. Women played a big role in the early church until there were some female centered heresies surrounding Montanism and Gnosticism. How does an institution survive for millennia when it has the world's worst human resource policies?

The problem with making changes like this is that the whole continuing revelation thing makes papal infallibility look real bad. I'm actually glad that I'm not entirely infallible. Around the house, I let everyone know that I'm only infallible whenever I don't make a mistake. It's a doctrine of partial infallibility. Maybe Francis the lefty Jesuit could borrow my doctrine. I won't charge him.; 1/8/23, 7:43 AM
Enigma said...: I'm not exactly sure what the Pope even does these days:

1. Many nominal Catholics ignore the church's birth control and other traditional doctrines (i.e., see Biden and Pelosi). They pick and choose their own rules, and would flee if forced to comply with church doctrines as taught and written.

2. The church has mixed hidebound tradition and political hierarchy with an underground of wealth, fun, and indulgences, plus gay and pedophile cultures for centuries. Its hypocrisy was obvious if you looked, leading to Martin Luther and the reformation and the counterreformation. They've paid out $$$$$ in child sexual abuse settlements for a few decades now.

3. The church strongly controlled European politics for 1,000 years or so, with kings kneeling before the Pope and the tall papal crown stood over and covered kingly crowns. However, the church lost its political power between Martin Luther and Mussolini, and only retains persuasive influence over group #1, but #1 doesn't care about any rules.

So, the Catholic Church is running on the fumes of continuing donations and its legacy real estate? Let the current Pope or next Pope say anything. It'll apparently have no impact.; 1/8/23, 7:51 AM
Bob Boyd said...: Oh, To Hell With It
Another Vatican Romance
By award-winning author Mariam P. Fukiffanoweithre; 1/8/23, 8:03 AM
tim maguire said...: I don’t see any issue with having two former popes around—the reason it doesn’t happen is that there is very little opportunity. Popes rarely resign and when they do they are typically old and not former popes for long. I don’t see any reason to think this will have any effect on Francis’ future pontificate.; 1/8/23, 8:08 AM
Ernest said...: There have been more than one former Pope still alive in Catholic history. The most famous, or perhaps infamous, example is in 1409 when the Council of Pisa deposed both Gregory XII and Benedict XIII and elected Alexander V. Both Gregory and Benedict refused to step down – so now you have three claiming to be Pope. This was settled by the Council of Constance that convened in 1414 by tossing all three out (by then Alexander had been succeeded by John XXIII) and choosing Martin V. The Catholic Church has since labeled Benedict, Alexander, and John as antipopes, meaning they were never the “real” Pope. So, according to Catholic teaching, the papal succession runs from Gregory XII to Martin V, relegating the others to an invalid status as antipopes. Granted, this is quite different from Benedict XVI resigning voluntarily.; 1/8/23, 8:31 AM
Rollo said...: "It would be difficult to have two emeritus popes."

Just figuring out the plural of "emeritus" would be a superhuman task in itself.; 1/8/23, 8:41 AM
Ernest said...: In response to Ampersand at 7:43 – Montanism is not technically a heresy, but a schismatic movement. The Gnostics were hardly female centered. The last verse of the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas states that a woman needs to become a man to enter the Kingdom. The idea that the Gnostics were pro-women is coming from academics like Karen King and Elaine Pagels, who both have an anti-orthodox Christianity agenda. Their views have been challenged.

This thread touches on some areas where I have some interest: Church history and Roman Catholicism (though I am not Catholic).; 1/8/23, 8:45 AM
Lars Porsena said...: Everybody but the Pew Catholics (the Catholics that actually show up on Sunday) are all excited.

and

Looking at the example of the mainline Protestant churches ..the more they got progressive the emptier their pews were on Sunday. I think Francis is just the man to do this for the Catholics.; 1/8/23, 9:45 AM
veni vidi vici said...: How does an institution survive for millennia when it has the world's worst human resource policies?

Look for the answer to this question in the assumption behind the word "worst".; 1/8/23, 9:49 AM
robother said...: Robert Conquest's Second Law: “Any organization not explicitly and constitutionally right-wing will sooner or later become left-wing.”; 1/8/23, 9:58 AM
Saint Croix said...: Pope Francis: "I would like to add, that if prominent American Catholics in the United States government do not know what a human being is, and they define God's children as sub-human, as property, well, it is without your power to do this. But it is not right. And I ask that you find another spiritual home, and you refrain from pretending that you belong to our church."

(We call this move "Nixon goes to China"); 1/8/23, 10:31 AM
Saint Croix said...: I believe too that when our spiritual fathers make bold calls, and challenge the flock, they will lose followers. And they will gain new followers. And that is the way.; 1/8/23, 10:32 AM
Michael K said...: I wish we still had Malachi Martin to explain someday the coup against Cardinal Ratzinger/ Pope Benedict.; 1/8/23, 11:17 AM
YoungHegelian said...: I think the idea that Pope Francis felt bound in his changes by Benedict's continued presence is risible (or "wisible" is you're a Life of Brian fan). The recent papal action against the celebration of the Tridentine Rite mass shows just how little Francis felt bound to honor Benedict's wishes.

The Church pissing in the face of the folks who follow the old Latin Tridentine Rite ranks up there with other Woke marketing disasters of recent years, i.e. alienate your most dedicated fan/customer base in the hopes that doing so will bring in a larger following who have just been supposedly waiting the wings for a woke version of the product. This process has by now been proved grievously wrong by comic books, sci-fi novels, the movies, DisneyLand, and now add the Curia of the Roman Catholic Church.

Sadly par for the course of the Curia.; 1/8/23, 12:10 PM
Kirk Parker said...: Saint Croix,

Did Francis *really* say that? When and where???; 1/8/23, 12:12 PM
Bender said...: After Vespers on New Year's Eve, when Francis was carted out in a wheelchair to the nativity scene in St. Peter's Square, I'm sure that this very idea was on Francis' mind - now there is nothing holding back his own resignation. And after having praised the idea, it now filled him with hesitation.; 1/8/23, 12:29 PM
William said...: I believe the thinking behind celibacy was that the clergy should surrender or consecrate their sexuality to God. Our sexual impulses aren't particularly edifying, but I don't think we can give them up anymore than you can give up bowel movements. I think it would be better if the priests took a vow to give up red meat upon ordination. The nuns could give up chocolate Time to rethink this celibacy thing. It should go the way of hairshirts.; 1/8/23, 12:31 PM
Bender said...: Thanks AA for yet another invitation for so many here to demonstrate that they don't know sh*t about the Catholic Church or why she proclaims and does what she does, yet in their ignorance, they arrogantly think they know better.; 1/8/23, 12:32 PM
Assistant Village Idiot said...: Because the NYT has such a great record of understanding Catholicism and the Vatican. Unparalleled predictive powers there.; 1/8/23, 12:58 PM
Saint Croix said...: Did Francis *really* say that? When and where???

Hey Kirk,

No, that was creative license by me on what the Pope should say.

Unlike a lot of people I believe he is genuinely pro-life.

Francis is very popular among liberal Christians in the Protestant world, who nonetheless try to ignore what he says about abortion. (See also Mother Teresa).; 1/8/23, 1:02 PM
Saint Croix said...: A great movie, by the way, is Two Popes. I really enjoyed it.; 1/8/23, 1:03 PM
Joe Smith said...: Francis can resign knowing he has turned the Roman Catholic Church into a bastion for social justice, radical environmentalism, open borders, and globalism.

Jesuits are great teachers, it's what they teach that I am concerned with...; 1/8/23, 1:21 PM
Saint Croix said...: He cried for his papa.

(I did too); 1/8/23, 2:16 PM
TaeJohnDo said...: It has been several years since we have been to Mass. It just isn't the same anymore, and has been that way for several years.; 1/8/23, 10:06 PM
Laura Solis said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; 1/10/23, 6:44 AM