"The master communicator and professional actor. Right? And Trump, the entertainer recast as something. When did you get the sense that Zelensky was genuine?"
Asks the interviewer, Geoff Edgers, in "David Letterman on his surprise Ukraine trip and Zelensky interview A special episode of the former late-night king’s Netflix show, ‘My Next Guest Needs No Introduction,’ grew out of his admiration of the Ukrainian president during the ongoing war with Russia" (WaPo).
Letterman answers: "It’s interesting you invoke Reagan. And in those days, I always thought, well, we have an actor as president. What does this mean to the rest of the world? And I know now Reagan, in fact, was beloved. And then we have Trump, who is a mistake from the minute of birth. But I knew [Zelensky] was genuine. It’s there. It’s palpable. You feel it, you see it. And to me, he has not wavered. And you see the people that we met in Kyiv, this is the guy that lit that fuse. And these people don’t take democracy for granted. I don’t even know, Geoff, if I’m answering your question, I just get wound up about this guy."
He knows now that Reagan was beloved. Is there some point in the future when he will know that Trump was beloved?
But the question isn't about who's loved and hated. It's about sincerity — genuineness — and the difficulty of judging it in an actor. The interviewer called attention to Reagan and Trump — Trump being also/almost an actor — and that derailed Letterman into thinking about love and hate. In Letterman's world, Trump is hated, Reagan can be looked at with hindsight and seen as beloved, and Zelensky is loved right now. And somehow, inside that love, Lettermen "knew" there was genuineness — "It’s there. It’s palpable. You feel it, you see it."
Is that the love speaking? I think Letterman knew he was speaking from infatuation, because he backed off and admitted it: "I don’t even know, Geoff, if I’m answering your question, I just get wound up about this guy."
ADDED: Who's an example of a politician who inspired infatuation but who turned out to be plainly unworthy of that emotional attachment and who thus stands as a warning against falling in love with politicians?
Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Michael Avenatti.... any others?
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50 comments:
Letterman is a mistake from birth too.
Zelensky was picked by the CIA as their front man because his apparent bisexuality and Hollywood good looks are a turn on for American liberal women. The fag hag wing of the Democratic Party.
He was also the perfect stooge to cover up Ukraine’s Nazi past (and present). Picking a Jew as your puppet in an overwhelmingly Orthodox Catholic country was the perfect PR move by the CIA to con Americans.
The CIA is employing all the strategies they used to prop up South Vietnam. Ngo Dinh Diem was a French educated Catholic in an almost entirely Buddhist country. When the fakery ends and the CIA pulls the rug, Zelensky had better get out of Ukraine in a hurry if he doesn’t want to suffer the same fate as Diem.
If you are infatuated with a politician you aren't an adult, you are a 12 year old.
Letterman went off the rails when he become a pompous twit who bloviated about his politically correct politics. Prior to his 'mission' to show his smug brilliance, he was pompous, but also funny.
Ukraine was, prior to the war, one of the most corrupt nations in the world. Zelensky is now the poster boy for standing up to Russian aggression. Every war needs one.
Politicians are usually disgusting people, regardless of political stance.
I am so weary of watching the endless parade of celebrities traveling to Ukraine to kiss this man's ass. Enough already.
“… ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.” – 12th Tradition of AA
Easier said than done.
Trump cucks hatred and jealousy of men with actual guts backbone and balls version 6.0221408e+23.
David Letterman is just another rich wealthy old hillarywoodland a-hole who thinks his celebrity means something. To the hivemind it does. The rest of us? meh.
Letterman trashed Reagan back in the day. Now he wants us to forget? No.
If you were there at the time and voted for Reagan you can now see him in perspective with strong and weak points. People who hated him may just be coming to realize now that he had his strong points. Or maybe they just use him as a stick to beat Trump.
When there's enough on the line, politicians -- if they rise to the occasion -- can become sincere and genuine. If we were invaded, even Joe Biden or Chauncey Gardner might appear great and Churchillian -- and what would we think of Churchill if not for WWII?
Ukraine is a corrupt country, but a newcomer to politics just might be less touched by scandal than those who've been in politics for years. I'm not going to hero worship Zelensky, but surely he is a better person and less tainted than Putin. I also doubt the CIA would be unconventional enough to think a comedian could get elected and put their weight behind him. After all, weren't they surprised/appalled by Trump winning?
Obama.
Who's an example of a politician who inspired infatuation but who turned out to be plainly unworthy of that emotional attachment and who thus stands as a warning against falling in love with politicians?
Kennedy? When you stand back and look at his presidency with the "Camelot" glssses off, he's a mediocre postwar president at best, with sleazy priapic tendencies, a likely fraudulent vote count in Illinois, and the worst example of nepotism in American government in the entire 20th century (making his baby brother the Attorney General). His big foreign policy achievement was persuading an enemy leader who thought he was an empty suit that he was not necessarily a completely empty suit (Khruschev-Kennedy summit), which isn't a "success" so much as the bare minimum to avoid complete failure. More than Clinton I or John Edwards, I think he epitomises the gap between fervent adulation and sad reality in American politics.
Not Avenatti, though. Kennedy did have actual achievements -- he wasn't just a scam artist and petty crook like Avenatti. Sane with Edwards nd Clinton. Avenatti was only an object of admiration for some because Trump made his opponents' brains fall out of their heads, though.
Didn’t Letterman cheat on his second or third wife with half his staff? Not particularly interested in his take on who is “genuine.”
Really good trial lawyers I have known are good actors. Which reminds me of a joke.
Young lawyer: How do I become a good trial lawyer?
Old lawyer: Sincerity, sincerity, sincerity. And when you can fake that, you’ve got it made.
Curious George said...
Obama.
12/10/22, 8:09 AM
THIS. That man divided this country, and set race relations back 50 years. He lied, he spied, and he got away with it all. He knew about Hillary's home server...he used a different name to e-mail her there. He knew the Russian Collsion was a hoax, and he helped spew the hate and lies. The left consider him their Messiah, and the right see right through the Marxist asshole.
I agree with Lurker 21. Zelensky might be overpraised, but he's clearly a better person than Putin and the other politicians in that neighborhood....I have read some about how forced collectivization (i.e. neo-serfdom) went down in the Ukraine. They can't even round out the number of people who died from starvation to the nearest million. Something in the neighborhood of four to eight million. This happened before Hitler broke his first window. It was a great atrocity, but famines don't capture the imagination of artistic types the way revolutions do. Not much material for comedians either.... Naturally the Ukrainians were not as pro-Soviet, anti-Nazi as Stalin would have liked when the Germans invaded. I'd give the Ukrainians as pass on this. They were the victims of one of the great crimes of the twentieth century and the Russians inflicted it on them.
I suspect the woke have given up on Obama,partly because of his delay in embracing gay marriage. More generally, he has been known to say things are no better for blacks than in the Jim Crow days--which is clearly nonsense--but he succeeded, to say the least, in a world that is supposed to be irredeemably racist. There is always going to be a suspicion that such a person is a sellout.
Are the woke pretty much left with JFK--and a JFK who is to some extent mythologized or fictionalized? This would be one way in which the woke assume there is really no idealism that goes beyond the boomers; it is more a matter of implementation, why the boomers did not achieve more of what they allegedly believed in.
Joy B on the view said something like, how can you criticize him? He's perfect.
School kids sang Mmmm-mmm-mmm.
The Nobel Peace Prize for "potential".
Obama, of course.
Those that say JFK know little to nothing about his actual policies. Tax cutting, America supporting, engaging in foreign wars .... He'd be worse than Hitler today.
But CAMELOT! And wasn't Jackie pretty?
"Who's an example of a politician who inspired infatuation but who turned out to be plainly unworthy of that emotional attachment and who thus stands as a warning against falling in love with politicians?"
All of them who become objects of mass adoration by the public.
Reagan had the most successful Presidency of my lifetime. He really changed things. He was a likable person, but his domestic life wasn't all that admirable. Carter was a failure as a President but his domestic virtues are worthy of respect and reverence....JFK was the only President who I loved in the way some people loved Obama, but the JFK that I loved was not the real JFK. The image far exceeded the reality. Still, there was enough reality about him to make the merchandising successful and all these years later I still find him heroic and tragic......I guess Eisenhower demonstrated the most balance between private and public virtue and gravitas.
Reagan had the most successful Presidency of my lifetime. He really changed things. He was a likable person, but his domestic life wasn't all that admirable. Carter was a failure as a President but his domestic virtues are worthy of respect and reverence....JFK was the only President who I loved in the way some people loved Obama, but the JFK that I loved was not the real JFK. The image far exceeded the reality. Still, there was enough reality about him to make the merchandising successful and all these years later I still find him heroic and tragic......I guess Eisenhower demonstrated the most balance between private and public virtue and gravitas.
Zelensky is to Putin as Stalin was to Hitler.
A bad guy, no doubt, but, at least for the present, our bad guy.
He's corrupt, and very smart. Has Biden by the short hairs, at least until the media starts to acknowledge the Ukraine-Biden Burisma connection. When that becomes common knowledge (which will last for 20 minutes before it becomes old news), Z will wish that he had taken that ride instead of the ammo.
Z's only way out would have been if the rest of Europe had taken the hint from Trump and built up their militaries to defend themselves against the Bear to the East. They collectively beat Russia in population, economics, and everything other than patriotism that it takes to win a war. The Europeans were counting on USA to bail them out a 3rd time. I don't think it will happen again.
Obama. Zelensky inherited the illegitimate regime, then doubled-down to wage war on its own citizens following the violent American-backed coupe to depose the EU-certified government in Kiev, followed by the denial of essential services to Crimea, and eight years of civil war carried out with the aid of the military-paramilitary axis.
Blogger Will Cate said...
I am so weary of watching the endless parade of celebrities traveling to Ukraine to kiss this man's ass. Enough already.
Exactly. Not to mention the politicians who are probably checking to be sure the money is where they think it is.
"When did you realize just how awesome you are?"
The state of journalism today.
Letterman was 'don't miss TV' back in the day.
He had a fantastic, fresh approach to TV comedy.
But he has morphed into a hyper-partisan leftist like everyone else in that business.
Why didn't the interviewer ask him about his intern problems? He's had a few...
In Letterman's world, Trump is hated, Reagan can be looked at with hindsight and seen as beloved, and Zelensky is loved right now.
And history is going to reflect.
History will be kind to Trump just like it was to Reagan. Nobody did more for the bottom 75% of the economic scale than Trump did.
History is not going to be kind to the man that jailed political opponents, banned Christianity, jailed the local press, and participated in a massive money laundering scheme with Republicans and Democrats in Washington DC.
Anthony Weiner.
William said...
I agree with Lurker 21. Zelensky might be overpraised, but he's clearly a better person than Putin and the other politicians in that neighborhood....I have read some about how forced collectivization (i.e. neo-serfdom) went down in the Ukraine. They can't even round out the number of people who died from starvation to the nearest million. Something in the neighborhood of four to eight million. This happened before Hitler broke his first window. It was a great atrocity, but famines don't capture the imagination of artistic types the way revolutions do. Not much material for comedians either.... Naturally the Ukrainians were not as pro-Soviet, anti-Nazi as Stalin would have liked when the Germans invaded. I'd give the Ukrainians as pass on this. They were the victims of one of the great crimes of the twentieth century and the Russians inflicted it on them.
Generally true.
But you need to be honest about what you are supporting. You need to say it out loud:
"You support the ethnic cleansing of Russian ethnics from Ukraine."
Every person alive today is alive because their ancestors wiped some ethnic group out. We are all the product of evil actions as well as good actions.
The line between good and evil runs down the middle of every heart.
It is the people who claim to be pure and righteous that do the most evil things. Making the supporting of Ukraine a righteous act and a morality play is what truly evil people do.
Woodrow Wilson. He gave a number of idealistic speeches during WWI, and on his trip to the Paris peace conference, he was met with adulation. He would make sure it was a just peace. But during the Peace Conference, he gave up just about everything in order to get the League of Nations into the treaty. He seems to have thought that the League would cause national leaders to stop being selfish and only think about what was good for the world and undo the bad things in the treaty. Yeah, right.
History is not going to be kind to the man that jailed political opponents, banned Christianity, jailed the local press, ...
We live in interesting Time(s) (pun intended).
Zelensky's a schmuck. He could have brought the impeachment BS to a screeching halt, but chose the side of the grifters.
Zelensky is a complete scumbag. He's a virtual dictator. He's sent thousands of Ukrainians to their death, forced people into the army until threat of death/jail, jailed and murdered dissidents, caused millions to flee the country, destroyed oppostion parties, taken control of the press, and is now going after the Orthodox Church (They're "traitors")
That a shitbag like "Dave" would go to Kiev and give him a softball interview is no surprise. But why would anyone waste time listening to "Joke Boy" interview Zelensky? Letterman was always a dull interviewer and his political/cultural ideas don't even reach the level of Kieth Olbermann or Michelle Goldberg. He's a moron.
But I guess midwits watch TV too.
I forget; how long was Reagan's post-presidency federal prison term? Was it below sentencing guidelines?
My gut tells me it's Barack Obama. I still think there's a trainload of goods on him that has been shut down and will not leak out for years, if ever. I've seen enough of his act at the fringes to know he's not what he plays in front of the cameras.
Start with how he got elected to the Illinois State Senate.
But this admiration society for Zelensky has got to stop. rocean lists some of his actions, and many of these actions started before Russia did any invading. Zelensky has serious natural dictator moves.
David Letterman is a weather man with a good sense of humor. One day he grew a beard and everyone started treating him like he was some aged scholar, a Great Thinker. He's a joke writer. Like Zelensky. That, they have in common.
Ugly comments this morning.
Ukraine is a corrupt little country with lots of divided loyalties and of course the politics is messy like you'd expect. Zelensky is clearly not a saint and sure the celebrity attention is nauseating but he's prosecuting a war that isn't cheap. He could have fled and gotten a nice job in some useless NGO somewhere but he didn't. He stayed and fought.
The mainstream culture has built Reagan (and Thatcher) hate into the basic package. Some relic like Letterman isn't going to change that.
Letterman is talking about beloved in the rest of the world, not beloved in America. He knows Reagan was reelected in a landslide.
Not sure Reagan was beloved in the rest of the world. Letterman may be focused on Easten Europe and non-Russian USSR.
Trump not beloved in the rest of the world. Perhaps a few places. Seems pretty popular in Israel. I believe the Chinese found him and his elder daughter fascinating.
I don't remember Clinton ever being beloved. He was Slick Willy from early on. Perhaps pitied by folks who really had it in for Mrs Clinton. Many may have found him fascinating as a political animal. Me, I voted for Tsongas in 1992, and in 2000 voted for Bradley, largely over Gore's failure to repudiate Clinton.
Edwards was beloved, which I could never understand. Seemed slicker than Willy.
Believe or not, Mrs Clinton was beloved, as much as she was reviled. Me, I voted for Obama, and was very disappointed that she ran unopposed the second time. Obama? Guilty as charged.
Readering (12:25pm)
"Trump not beloved in the rest of the world"? Are you sure? I have some evidence he was at least admired by the same sort of people who admire him in the U.S. Not the intellectual classes, of course, who tend to monopolize the conversation. But I was in Italy in the summer of 2019 and several times working-class men asked me "Americano?" and when I said yes, replied "Trump!" with a big thumbs up. (Not sure what gave them a hint? My clothes? face? gait? A Hungarian once told me "It's the shoes".) The middle-aged owners of a dry cleaner in Syracuse were very impressed by my pin-stripe shirt with the label "From the Donald J. Trump Signature Collection", and I'm pretty sure it was the name, not the quality that impressed them, though it is very well-made.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/1589187130-ukrainian-police-officer-accused-of-anti-semitism-for-requesting-list-of-jews
"i am so weary of watching the endless parade of celebrities traveling to Ukraine to kiss this man's ass. Enough already."
Agree, although is Letermann still a "celebrity"? More like a has-been.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/08/how-people-around-the-world-see-the-u-s-and-donald-trump-in-10-charts/
THe standard "Oh for the days.."
Oh for the days when we had Reasonable Moderate Republicans like Ike, instead of nasty Pols like Nixon or Extremists like Goldwater.
Oh for the days, when we had moderate Republicans like Nixon, knowledgable FP experts who practiced Detente instead of Rightwing extremist, ignorant cowboy Reagan.
Oh for the days, when we had reasonable republicans like Reagan who gave us peace and prosperity, unlike warmongering dumb Bush-Hitler.
Oh for the days, when we had reasonable republicans like Bush, who worked with the Democrats and knew about foreign policy, unlike Hitler-Trump.
Readering said...
Trump not beloved in the rest of the world. Perhaps a few places. Seems pretty popular in Israel. I believe the Chinese found him and his elder daughter fascinating.
Trump's rallies in India were bigger than in the US.
Trump was more than liked by both Israelis and Saudis. That should be impossible.
Russia's neighbors generally loved Trump because he was the first President that stopped Russian attacks from happening.
China respected him but released COVID to remove him.
Trump was hated in Western Europe and by the Iranian rulers.
performer...master communicator and professional actor...entertainer
That is the case for any half-competent attorney. It's hardly anything extraordinary.
So I don't see the comrade has chimed in yet, but the Soviet apologists and dupes are out in force, together with the pathetic SFB self-centered isolationist America First/Only types.
Huh. So you don't have a tag for "I knew he was genuine when I saw the video of him playing the piano with his penis"?
Achilles is correct, Trump is loved admired and emulated by misogynistic nations full of short men with tiny feet all over the world.
Put not your faith in princes. Your relationship with politicians should be utilitarian unlike your relationship with your family, friends and neighbors.
Readering said...
I don't remember Clinton ever being beloved. He was Slick Willy from early on.
***************
During the Clinton years, while reciting a "Top Ten List why America is Such a Great Country", Letterman said,
"Even a swollen-faced hillbilly can become President".
heh
William said...
".... Naturally the Ukrainians were not as pro-Soviet, anti-Nazi as Stalin would have liked when the Germans invaded. I'd give the Ukrainians as pass on this. They were the victims of one of the great crimes of the twentieth century and the Russians inflicted it on them."
Yet another reference to Holodomor atrocity brought out of historical ignorance.
William, Holodomor was a crime perpetrated by Soviet Communist economic policies. "Russians" were the victims as much as the people you call "Ukranians". "Ukrainians" that welcomed the Nazis never suffered from Holodomor. If you look at the maps of areas showing the greatest Holodomor mortalities, you will see they are in Eastern "Ukraine": in Donbass region, then Kharkiv, then Kiev regions. These areas are where the greatest number of ethnic Russians live. These areas are where the greatest support for Russian invasion is nowadays. These areas were not German friendly during WW2, there was always strong partisan resistance against German occupation in these areas. Why people in east "Ukraine" are pro-Russian, although they suffered most from Holodomor? Because, by and large, they know who is really responsible for Holodomor (Communist comissars).
The areas that were pro-Nazi and anti-Soviet during WW2 were in the western part of modern "Ukraine", Galicia and Volyn. These areas didn't suffer from Holodomor at all. The exact total number of people that died of starvation due to Holodomor in Galicia and Volyn is Zero, because they did not belong to USSR at the time, they belonged to Poland after WW1. Before WW1 they were part of Austrian empire. They became part of Soviet Union in 1939, when Poland was divided between Nazi Germany and USSR. These "Ukrainians" never wanted to be part of USSR, so naturally they welcomed Nazi troops in 1941 as liberators. These "Ukrainians" became possibly more Nazi then the Nazis, committing mass executions of Russians, Jews, Poles and other ethnic groups (Volyn massacre, Baby Yar massacre and so on).
So, William, be careful who you give a pass to.
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