Excerpt from the middle of Politico's musings:
But Trump has survived periods of uncertainty before, fortified by a veritable army of MAGA supporters. And privately, he’s been unmoved by the most recent critics, seeing the chorus as similar to the one he faced during his past White House runs and stint as president.
He also has been itching for a rematch with President Joe Biden, calculating that he could defeat the man who beat him for the presidency if the two were to run without a worldwide pandemic shadowing over the race. The same POLITICO/Morning Consult poll...
A poll that has 47% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents going for Trump in 2024 and only 33% for Ron DeSantis.
... showed that 66 percent of voters said Biden probably or definitely should not run for president in 2024 (with 45 percent in the definite camp)....
Also at Politico, from 10 p.m. last night: "Republicans just 1 win away from taking the House/Five wins Monday got the GOP to 217 seats." There are 14 seats left to call, so unless the Democrats win all 14, the Republicans have succeeded in taking the House.
I'm giving this post my "Trump lost in 2022" tag, which I used a lot last week, but now I think that idea will fade. Though some Republicans tried very hard to destroy Trump with the 2022 results, he's going to go on. That's what he does. I remember when I thought the Deadline Hollywood story was the end of him. He doesn't stop!
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130 comments:
The left and the left's media want Trump in the game.
He is good for leftist media business.
Note all the headlines promising Trump's impending Indictment ARE ... GONE.
The pro-Trump explanations for 2020 and 2022 both involve him getting out-hustled by Democratic vote harvesters. What's his plan for not getting out-hustled a third time?
Trump will not win the primary. It's not because he lost the 2020 election. It's because of his actions and failures after the 2020 elections. His failure of leadership, of communication, of winning showing a case of fraud, of failing on January 6th, and onwards.
But also, because:
1. He has turned on every single Republican that stood behind him or even who didn't attack him.
2. Every super star he hand selected to work for him has now turned on him.
3. He's attacking genuine future leadership like DeSantis simply because he's insecure.
I could go on.
The funny thing to me is he's been under continual investigation for 6+ years. He's been raided. He's had the NY AG make public statements of attack and that he's guilty even without a trial. He's exposed absolute institutional rot in so many areas - including the disgusting press.
He's done a great job showing the corruption in these institutions. He just wasn't good at actually dealing with it.
The best development will be that DeSantis will run against Trump in the Republican primary-election race and will defeat him.
If Trump then runs as a non-Republican in the general-election race, then so be it.
The GOPe sabotaged the 2022 midterm candidates that would not support Mitch.
Then they had the gall to blame Trump for their feckless douchebaggery.
And most Republican voters saw right through the GOPe/Media regime's attampt to sideline the TEA party/MAGA.
There are still some dumb Republicans out there that jump on every NeverTrumper train. But fortunately not that many of them.
No Republican who refuses to call for Mitch McConnell's retirement will have a chance in the 2024 primary. Even Graham is reading those tea leaves.
And 90% of the base is focused on the real problem which is the voter fraud.
Dementia Don is a loser. He can’t win in 2024. He’ll be a two time loser. A modern William Jennings Bryan or Harold Stassen.
How can we miss him if he won’t go away?
If Trump’s the nominee, that probably increases the chances slow joe will be the D’s nominee, which probably would be good for the R’s instead of someone like Jared Polis. After all the false D support for MAGA candidates, it would be ironic if support for Trump painted the D’s into the corner of sticking with Biden.
I thought on Election Day that the Trump element in the Republican party had fared worse than say the McConnell/Romney element. Unfortunately for the party, all the leaders failed to predict or plan for what actually happened. Even without fraud, the Dems have developed new techniques for what could be called scraping every possible vote--including votes from the uninterested and the ignorant. Many Americans, perhaps especially Republicans, might have said in earlier times that there is something wrong about this. Why should the ignorant, who perhaps don't own anything or care much about anything, make decisions affecting the less ignorant? There were non-racist reasons for voter registration: go to just a little bit of trouble, for Christ's sake. Think about the future. With rare exceptions, vote on exactly one day. Find a polling station--it's not hard.
This is the new battlefield, money is relevant but it isn't all about money, the states have enormous discretion so the new rules are here to stay at least for a while, so Republicans have to figure this out. Many of them including Trump are so old they are unlikely to have the flexibility in their thinking, or the capacity for work, to do what has to be done.
I'm giving this post my "Trump lost in 2022" tag, which I used a lot last week, but now I think that idea will fade. Though some Republicans tried very hard to destroy Trump with the 2022 results, he's going to go on.
That is because some people give the Media and the GOPe/Demcrat Regime more credit than they deserve and are gullible enough to accept their lies at face value.
But the Republican voters understand just how dishonest all of these people are.
Ron Desantis is listening to the money right now. He has done great things and I would support him in a heartbeat if he did 4 things:
1. Demand that the entire Republican Political leadership resign or be removed from the Republican party.
2. Tell the GOPe to start supporting all republicans and stop betraying their voters and attacking/blaming Trump for their failures.
3. Publicly disavow the comments of the people that are giving him truckloads of campaign cash.
4. Start campainging against the obvious voter fraud in Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Michigan.
@TreeJoe -- I hope you are right, but I fear you are not. Trump will run, and he'll secure the nomination. And then he will lose the election. But even if you are right and Trump fails to secure the nomination, the last chapter reads the same either way. Fraud, fraud, fraud.
Mike Sylwester said...
The best development will be that DeSantis will run against Trump in the Republican primary-election race and will defeat him.
If Trump then runs as a non-Republican in the general-election race, then so be it.
Desantis will have the same chances in the primary that Cruz had.
Nobody will win the Republican nomination if they are allied with the party machine unless they change the rules of the primaries.
If they change the rules or the party primaries to shut out the working class base then they are just fucking idiots and deserve to lose.
But you Desantis supporters don't seem to be looking very far past your prejudices.
DeSantis leads Trump in Club for Growth primary polls
Apparently the DeSantimonious tag was from inside information that DeSantis surrogates (donors) were behind attacks on Trump. Trump wants DeSantis to fight like a man. Unfortunately the battle space wasn't well prepared because everybody thinks the pleasant DeSantis isn't an underhanded cunt.
TreeJoe said...
He's done a great job showing the corruption in these institutions. He just wasn't good at actually dealing with it.
Desantis has decided to take money from the corrupt institutions and is completely silent about their attacks on Trump.
How do you think Desantis's complicity is handling it?
Desantis loses 40 states without Trump's endorsement and only wins the nomination if the GOPe rigs the primary.
This is easy to see.
What path will you choose?
Romney rescued companies in trouble and was obviously a nice guy. How did that turn out.
Watch out for niceness that goes public.
Candace Owens is the latest to reveal her true feeling on Trump. She's backing away.
Says he is too paranoid to lead.
Also - who on earth would still agree to stick with him? A team is required to run for president.
He's alienated just about everyone.
Trump won in 2016 for being underestimated by all. The left, the media, and the Bill Krystol / John McCain "never Trump" crowd uniformly took him as a joke. On election night, Hillary was primed to go on her huge USA-shaped stage and "smash the glass ceiling." The first female President was lock. A lock. It was going to be an easy, early election call.
After all the nonsense during Trump's term the same group 'colluded' to destroy him. He's currently lining up as a 2024 3rd party disrupter with 35% to 40% of the vote and cause himself or another Republican nominee to lose. Think back to H. Ross Perot in 1992 -- G. H. W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton likely because of Perot.
My position: All political candidates over age 70 need to go away. New ideas. New generations.
Dave Begley said...
Dementia Don is a loser. He can’t win in 2024. He’ll be a two time loser. A modern William Jennings Bryan or Harold Stassen.
Trump showed you how to win. He has been taking abuse and attacks that you couldn't even pretend to deal with.
He is smarter than you. He is braver than you. He did more for this country and it's people than you ever attempted.
And your childish idiot attacks on him are more reflective on you than on him or his supporters.
Grow up.
I am not interested in a party that rejects Trumpism.
I'm afraid NeverTrump pundits are going to overplay this supposed setback.
If only Trump would get back on Twitter...
Trump hasn't won anything since 2016. He's led the party thru 3 losing election cycles. He's burned bridges with everyone except the true believer deadender MAGA people. There are a lot feweer of them this week than there were last week.
Trump's greatest super power is to move right through the criticisms and attacks and keep moving forward with his plans. It's not that criticism doesn't bother him. We all know it does. But he feeds off of it and keeps his energies pointed in the same direction.
As much as he has the power to annoy, he also has the great ability to focus. He will be an immense obstacle for anyone else to run in the GOP. The Establishment GOPers have been done for years, yet they still hang onto leadership 2-3 levels deep. It's been a process removing them. That process will continue now.
But, in the end, the candidate needs to appeal to not just the New GOP, but to independents and moderate old-style Dems. Trump did that in his first run. I, personally, think he is too tainted now to get away with all of that in a second run. He's done enough to taint himself. But also there are too many stupid Americans who believe it when a Joe Biden stands in front of the Reichstag backed in red and proclaims that Democracy will die if Maga wins, or that your children might be arrested and possibly killed (per famous historian, Michael Beschloss), if conservatives win.
It's hard to defeat mass stupid. It can be done, but it's gotta be with other faces, other tactics.
The election was a full week ago. Why are some election results still outstanding?
And 90% of the base is focused on the real problem which is the voter fraud.
Not voter fraud, ballet fraud. Specifically, who does the counting. If Republicans don't start playing the game the way the Democrats play they will never win. Or, they some how get rid of mail in ballets.
Achilles said...And most Republican voters saw right through the GOPe/Media regime's attempt to sideline the TEA party/MAGA...And 90% of the base is focused on the real problem which is the voter fraud.
Nobody in the GOP stands a chance unless the voter fraud, and now permanent absentee ballot harvesting and post-election well-funded ballot curing are addressed. Thank you COVID. Sadly the time to address it was 2020, but too many people were in on it, were afraid to confront it, or just wanted Donald Trump gone, so they turned the other cheek pretending it wouldn't happen again.
The GOP needs the Tea Party / MAGA base. Tell us to fuck off, and we will...
What we do know is crime will continue to rise in our cities and will bleed further into the burbs, students were lied to and will receive zero debt relief, inflation will continue to hurt until the Feb interest rate increases slow everything down and increase unemployment.
By Nov 2024 this will be worse than they are right now. No course has been corrected.
Best is they are even trying to resurrect Mike Pence. Pence is lying and throwing Trump and MAGA under the bus in his ABC interview, and new book.
If I was Ron DeSantis I would stay as far away from Mike Pence as possible. It'll be interesting how DeSantis handles all this. At the moment, silence is working...but it's not going to work forever.
Given what a wheezing, calliope-accompanied Clownshow the Democrats, their media operatives, and private security force (FBI) are, what does that say about Republican leaders?
Dave Begley said...Dementia Don is a loser. He can’t win in 2024. He’ll be a two time loser. A modern William Jennings Bryan or Harold Stassen.
Except Trump won the Presidency in 2016 in the biggest political upset in American History. Unlike the two examples given (Bryan and Stassen). He also won in 2020, but the swing state voter fraud gave installed Joe Biden. Those are two realities.
I don't see the accuracy in this comparison at all. Dave is comparing a former President, with two guys that never won the Presidency.
The question really is, "Is Trump another Bull Moose Teddy Roosevelt?" That's what we are watching.
I'd say Beto O'Rourke, or Mitt Romney are closer to Bryan and Stassen than anybody. Hillary too. She had her Presidential coronation taken from her by Obama in 2008, and Trump in 2016. You can put Bernie on the William Jennings Bryan list as well.
"If he wants to" sounds like the masochist in "all of us" talking.
link to Althouse post
Odd - Every other post election poll indicates a dramatic loss of support for the Fat Tub of Goo.
An unavoidable message from the campaign is that Trump is toxic with independent voters. The voters roundly rejected election deniers. Both Republicans and Democrats noticed this. The Republicans are starting to edge away from him and the Democrats are going to try to surreptitiously push him like they did for several candidates in Republican primaries this year.
It will be interesting to see how Trump’s legal issues fit into this. Will the FBI continue to go hard against the guy that the Democrats want to win the GOP nomination?
One thing that the DeSantis and Kemp victories have shown is that there is an easier path to victory - one that excludes Trump.
DeSantis has big financial backers.
Polis(D) just won handily in CO - despite CO's record crime, record fentynol deaths, record property crime, record transients camps and all the filth, failing public schools, crappy roads that never get fixed, all the fees Polis layered on to our lives... etc...
How did Polis win? Money.
Trump will need to self-fund - because all the big bucks are moving away from him. Of course his bitter-clingers see this as proof of the conspiracy.
tim maguire said...
The pro-Trump explanations for 2020 and 2022 both involve him getting out-hustled by Democratic vote harvesters. What's his plan for not getting out-hustled a third time?
The solution is clear - we conservatives must find a nominee the Democrats favor. When we nominate that someone instead of OrangeManBad (obviously DeSantis as of now) the Democrats can call him Hitler and us Nazis and then we can lose again. Afterwards we can sit and beg for our treat - which the Republicans who are left in Congress will be happy to hand out to us.
“Hey fellow kids check out my cool pop reference from sixty years ago!”
Ron the Second will crush Dementia Don. You read it here first.
The Republicans are 100% dumb enough to nominate Trump again. The Democrats are dumb enough that I doubt we have seen the last of HRC. These two parties are dumb. My prediction is that they will each nominate a terrible candidate and you bozos will fight over which one is more awful. Anybody want to take that bet?
The pro-Trump explanations for 2020 and 2022 both involve him getting out-hustled by Democratic vote harvesters. What's his plan for not getting out-hustled a third time?
What? Candidates depend on their donors the RNC the RSCC and the way funds were yanked from or never available to candidates is antithetical to what the base wanted. The RGA played a similar spoiling role refusing any support to Mastriano in PA with the added insult of Rove’s Crossroads GPS supporting the DEMOCRAT for PA governor. The GOP “leaders” chose continuing minority status instead of supporting republicans who said nice things about Trump.
Sure democrat vote harvesters outhustled republicans again. That’s not Trump failing candidates. He’s just one man. Why did the party sabotage its own candidates?
William Jennings Brian also spoke for those who had no voice, I guess the lesson here is that those people must never raise concerns with how they are being governed. It’s bad juju for the people running things! Just surrender your jobs and send your sons off to fight the wars we start, all to benefit the rich few, and shut up!
AMDG: "An unavoidable message from the campaign is that Trump is toxic with independent voters."
Exactly. But will the message get through?
Eva Marie said...
tim maguire said...
The pro-Trump explanations for 2020 and 2022 both involve him getting out-hustled by Democratic vote harvesters. What's his plan for not getting out-hustled a third time?
The solution is clear - we conservatives must find a nominee the Democrats favor. When we nominate that someone instead of OrangeManBad (obviously DeSantis as of now) the Democrats can call him Hitler and us Nazis and then we can lose again. Afterwards we can sit and beg for our treat - which the Republicans who are left in Congress will be happy to hand out to us.
11/15/22, 8:40 AM
THIS^^^^
Achilles - you need to get this through your thick skull. Trump cannot win in 2024.
You need a plan B.
The GOP needs the Tea Party / MAGA base. Tell us to fuck off, and we will...
And THIS^^^
Blogger tim in vermont said...
I am not interested in a party that rejects Trumpism.
11/15/22, 7:58 AM
———————
Rejecting Trump and rejectiing Trumpism are not the same thing. In fact, the biggest obstacle to the implementation of Trumpism is the Fat Tub of Goo himself.
Trump is detested by independent voters x how does he overcome that?
Politico is a very serious, non-partisan news organization.
I would listen to them...
But, in the end, the candidate needs to appeal to not just the New GOP, but to independents and moderate old-style Dems. Trump did that in his first run. I, personally, think he is too tainted now to get away with all of that in a second run. He's done enough to taint himself. But also there are too many stupid Americans who believe it when a Joe Biden stands in front of the Reichstag backed in red and proclaims that Democracy will die if Maga wins, or that your children might be arrested and possibly killed (per famous historian, Michael Beschloss), if conservatives win.
Yes, a combination of mass stupid and ballot manipulation is tough to overcome. 2020 was a chance to continue peaceful prosperity. It was stolen from us to put in place a leftist experiment. Let's see if "real Socialism" finally works. We know the answer but the process will be painful. I don't know if DeSantis can turn things around. I doubt it. We thought 2022 would be hard to steal because so many seats were at stake. We were wrong.
Blogger AMDG said...
Achilles - you need to get this through your thick skull. Trump cannot win in 2024.
You need a plan B.
Advice from a leftist. Hilarious.
AMDG said...
Achilles - you need to get this through your thick skull. Trump cannot win in 2024.
You need a plan B.
11/15/22, 9:08 AM
Keep on ragging on Trump supporters like that, and NO Republican will win 2024. Maybe get it through YOUR thick head. YOU need us.
Blogger Gusty Winds said...
The GOP needs the Tea Party / MAGA base. Tell us to fuck off, and we will...
11/15/22, 8:02 AM
—————-
And the MAGA base needs the rest of the GOP and independents.
"Or, they some how get rid of mail in ballets."
Tell me you're not an actual voter. Please.
,
holy crap - DD Driver. It is very possible.
Seems to happen almost every election cycle. @ 2 candidates that are loathsome and disliked.
This is the exhaustion I'm talking about.
It's like a bad Disney re-make.
AMDG 8:24
spot on analysis.
Ever-Trumpers are telling everyone to F off. So - as your Trump-club shrinks- it's your choice. You can go away mad if it makes you feel better.
Temujin - Well said.
Blogger AMDG said...
“Achilles - you need to get this through your thick skull. Trump cannot win in 2024.
You need a plan B.”
AMDG - if your candidate can’t beat Trump in the primaries, he/she sure as heck won’t be able to beat the Democrats in the general elections. You think Trump’s a bad candidate? Beat him in the primaries.
AMDG Said...Achilles...You need a plan B.
Plan B will need to consist of voter fraud efforts in swing states where the GOP can control local races, as well as increased absentee ballot harvesting and post election ballot curing efforts. This will have to be done in suburban and rural areas while the Dems do it in concentrated urban areas.
All three need to be well funded and coordinated. Fire will need to be fought with fire. But you have to get the GOPe and MAGA base (which are now separate) to go along with what Democrats do. I'm not sure they have voter fraud in them and ignoring election laws in them.
Even DeSantis will need this type of effort from the GOP, and MASSIVE cooperation from local election officials. The ground campaign is no longer about going door to door to present issues.
It is going door to door and saying, "our records show you're a registered Republican and have not turned in and absentee ballot yet. Would you like me to help you with that?" The Dems have this machine well oiled.
Achilles at 7:49 AM
Desantis will have the same chances in the primary that Cruz had.
Achilles, I respect your opinions about a possible Trump-DeSantis race in 2024.
In the 2016 primary race, I did support Cruz, and I was surprised that he was defeated decisively by Trump in the Indiana primary election. So, Achilles, I do understand your argument about what might happen in a Trump-DeSantis 2024 election race.
After Trump won the 2016 primary-election race, I was happy to vote for him in the general election, against Hillary Clinton.
If, likewise, Trump defeats DeSantis in the 2024 primary-election race, then I will be happy to vote for him again in the general election.
That said, I still hope that DeSantis will run against Trump in 2024. Let the Republican voters decide who their candidate will be.
The GOP needs the Tea Party / MAGA base. Tell us to fuck off, and we will...
And there in lies the problems with the Republican party. The establishment Republicans loathe 40% of the country. That contempt is strong enough for them to sabotage Republican candidates who are a threat to their power. The GOPe does not care about party, or control of the government. They are ultimately, mercenaries, more interested in the power they can accumulate for themselves. There is no Agenda from the Republican party. They spout the bromides they think will rally the right, but they do not actually work to bring about the policies that the common people on the right want. Note that the Dems are exactly the same in that respect, but they differ in that they WANT control of the government as a party, so they do better at getting their people elected, even if they don't follow the party line all the time. What made Trump popular with a loyal base is that he is the first guy since St. Ronnie to deliver. What makes it difficult for him to succeed is that the Dems have better messaging, support from the media, and are willing to buy votes with government handouts. The mushy middle still thinks Dems are good guys, so they will lean that way.
If you think another candidate from the Republican party will be successful in the national election, think again. They will be savaged by the media regardless of who they are (thin McCain, Romney, etc). Does not matter how nice they are, it matters that they are not (D). They will NEED that base for support, so they will have to work for it, and to do so will drive away the mushy middle. By the time he runs for President, DeSantis will be as Toxic as Trump to about 55% or more of the population.
Lake lost her election, not because she was supported by Trump but she made the mistake of alienating McCain loyalists. Rookie mistake. Don't alienate those who would be inclined to support you.
To repeat, the Republican party is fractured. The establishment hates the people who vote for Republicans, so they don't want the group to actually gain control of the government, so they would rather remain a minority party than see their personal fiefdoms reduced.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "Trump will need to self-fund - because all the big bucks are moving away from him. Of course his bitter-clingers see this as proof of the conspiracy."
Trump already self-funded along with his rather huge base of small donors. This has already been explained to you several times but your cranium is nigh impenetrable: Trump never depended on "big buck" donors and he wont in the future.
You are like Hillary in your inability to assimilate information.
And of course, there has never been any conspiracy talk about any of that, you just tossed that in because......well, you're you and I guess you needed something to spice up your comment.
AMDG: "Achilles - you need to get this through your thick skull. Trump cannot win in 2024.
You need a plan B."
I swear, its like talking to children.
What Achilles and others know is that it doesn't matter what you think about Trump or even what the outlook in 2024 happens to be right now. Trump is not going to stop fighting. Its in his nature. And he has been fighting for people who have been completely abandoned by the likes of the leaders AMDG reveres.
So that's a given. Now what? Well, a solid plurality if not a majority of the republican base doesn't read Althouse blog, nor do they care about what the media/GOPe-ers/Althouse bloggers think of them. They already know the AMDG's of the world despise them. That's baked in and they are going to vote for Trump.
This is the reality, so get used to it and start figuring out what to do next.
Oooh, here's an idea, start having the candidates you think should replace Trump start talking about all the economic and foreign policy issues Trump addressed! Put the United States first in all things.
DeSantis could do that, but he hasn't yet. But he's just a governor! Wait until he's a candidate!
Okay, I will. Until then, I don't trust the GOPe-ers/Wall Streeters that support DeSantis....the same people that never supported the America First policies of Trump.
Ballot not ballet. It is kind of a ballet just not a very graceful one.
My wife is a right winger and was a huge diehard Trump supporter. Until Wed morning. My friend was a big contributor to Trump and a diehard as well. Until Wed morning. I realized months ago that he was unelectable. Six years of constant demonization in every single media outlet every single day takes its toll. Plus his behavior has gone over the edge. He is political toast.
AMDG said...
Achilles - you need to get this through your thick skull. Trump cannot win in 2024.
You need a plan B.
You want to replace Trump that is fine with me.
Desantis will not win if he allies with McConnell and the GOPe. Nobody will. The GOPe has to go period.
I already told you what Desantis has to do to get my endorsement. He needs to tell you GOPe jackholes to actually unite and stop backstabbing Republican candidates they don't like and he needs to fight the voter fraud.
You have produced nothing. You are a whiny child at best.
Give me a plan to actually win and I will take you seriously.
tim maguire: "The pro-Trump explanations for 2020 and 2022 both involve him getting out-hustled by Democratic vote harvesters. What's his plan for not getting out-hustled a third time?"
This is what I mean about all things blamed on Trump. A permanent GOPe Get Out Of Jail Free Card. McConnell can literally fund non-republicans to attack republicans and Trump gets blamed. It's like some weird mass-hypnosis Stockholm Syndrome for republicans.
Hey, smart guy, which entity is responsible for developing the tactics/systems/processes necessary to win in every state of the union based on the current voting "rules"?
Try the RNC amigo. And who runs the RNC? Oh, that's right. Romney's niece, and we know that makes her untouchable for the GOPe-ers. Do you remember hearing anything from her during all the "slow steals"? Nope. That would be icky and you might get labeled an election denier.
Nope, once again, Trump's fault and Trump alone.
And who was responsible for developing a national message strategy for the 2022 election? Oh, right. Mitch McConnell and McCarthy (Frank Luntz' b****).
Once again, Trump's fault and Trump alone.
I must say, the GOPe has the Stupid Party Base well trained.
Hey, maybe John Cornyn can lead us to another bi-partisan gun control bill "victory"!
In time, that too will be Trump's fault.
'Romney rescued companies in trouble and was obviously a nice guy. How did that turn out.'
I'm assuming this is sarcasm?
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
Trump will need to self-fund - because all the big bucks are moving away from him. Of course his bitter-clingers see this as proof of the conspiracy.
No, we just don't want what the big money wants.
We don't want endless wars, open borders, free trade with China, and the rest of the Chamber of Commerce/WEF agenda. I don't care about abortion or gay marriage or the other dumb shit you all get worked up over.
If the Republican party goes back to to the Chamber of Commerce then I wont vote for it. I didn't vote for Romney. I wont vote for Romney 2.0.
Trump showed you how to win.
And all you did was throw a fit and act like children. You are just as dishonest about what you want as the Democrats are.
Dave Begley: "Ron the Second will crush Dementia Don. You read it here first."
So then what's the problem?
Ron will crush "Dementia Don" (of course, "dementia don" had to be added so as to remove the obvious Biden issues and shift them onto Trump because that's simply what's done now according to GOPe directives isn't it?), win the hearts and minds of the entire middle and working class (even though its Trump that animates the working class) in addition to independents and then cruise to victory with a revamped republican national committee GOTV strategy/processes/tools that will ensure the dems don't steal the election!
Hooray!
Piece of cake. Should have it complete by Thursday next.
And the best part? DeSantis as President will defy each and everyone of his huge donors to deliver the policies that republicans have been desiring for years/decades and somehow get the McFailures to go against the wishes of their donor masters too!
What a wonderful dream scenario. And its so realistic too! The key is that Trump, who fought tooth and nail for all those same things for 6 years and has caught every arrow destined for all of us for those 6 years, will just be kicked to the curb with and those working class voters won't care a bit!
Its all so perfect. So perfectly perfect. So magnificently perfect.
DeSantis would beat Trump bigly in the primary.
Trump won’t run as an independent. He’d have to self finance and Trump’s not Ross Perot. He’s not spending his own cash and his memorabilia sales wouldn’t be enough to get on the ballot in West Virginia.
Tank said...
The election was a full week ago. Why are some election results still outstanding?
Because the McCain wing of the Republican party is working with the democrats in key states to commit ballot fraud.
And there are a bunch of dumb Romney republicans on this board that support them by attacking Trump as if he is the problem.
Here's an example of the sort of leadership Team GOPe is all about:
"Rep. Tom Emmer (R-MN), who is vying for House Republican leadership, has voted for legislation that has advanced Environment, Social, and Governance (ESG) initiatives and received funding from Wall Street giant BlackRock.
Emmer said last week he is running for House Majority Whip. This follows after he led the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC) to an underwhelming midterm performance to take back the House majority from Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)."
And why wouldn't Emmer vote for those things and seek a GOP "leadership" role? Emmer see's that he can do whatever the h*** he wants for his paymasters and he can turn around later and lay all the blame on Trump.
That will become the blatant Modus Operandi of the GOPe and their Althouse sycophants moving forward. For the Althouse GOPe sycophants, its already here.
All the NeverTrumpers, early and latecomers, might wonder if the Trump voters he added to the old GOP numbers will vote for the flavor of the year if it isn't Trump. I don't know. 75 million is a big number. Of course vote fraud is much easier now with mail in ballots.
"The GOP needs the Tea Party / MAGA base. Tell us to fuck off, and we will..."
Wa St Blogger: "And there in lies the problems with the Republican party. The establishment Republicans loathe 40% of the country."
The establishment Republicans that loathe 40% of the country are pikers in that department compared with the Althouse blog republicans.
So, lets not talk about the midterms, says politico. Lets talk about Trump and 2024 election, which is TWO YEARS down the road. Let's be honest: If the R's had won in a landslide, Poltico would be talking about how Trump deserved ZERO credit. Now that the R's did poorly its Trump's fault.
Trump wasn't involved in the Mitch McConnell Senate leadership fund which doled out $200 million, including $6 million to lisa murky in alaska to defeat another Republican, while giving almost NOTHING to Masters in Arizona.
Trump wasn't running the RNC. Trump isn't the Republican leader of the house or the Senate. What was their winning message? They didn't have one. Mitch and the RNC were on the road to defeat in 2016, when Trump saved them. Now, they're just back to being true selves: Natural born losers.
Gusty Winds said...
Best is they are even trying to resurrect Mike Pence. Pence is lying and throwing Trump and MAGA under the bus in his ABC interview, and new book.
If I was Ron DeSantis I would stay as far away from Mike Pence as possible. It'll be interesting how DeSantis handles all this. At the moment, silence is working...but it's not going to work forever.
This is the same war inside the Republican party that started in 2012. That was the first year that we saw who the GOPe really was.
Mitt Romney sat back and watched as the GOP money men absolutely trashed Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, and Rick Santorum.
Then Mitt Romney played footsie with Obama in the General and lost because the real enemy of the Chamber of Commerce GOPe is the Tea Party base. They want Open Borders and endless wars and free trade with China.
That is why McConnell and Vos and Doucey back stabbed the Tea Party/Maga candidates and are working with the democrats to commit ballot fraud.
This isn't some personality conflict. This is a deep division between the money people and the voters.
Desantis will have to choose one side or the other. Right now he is just being a coward and the longer it goes the more damage will be done.
Wa St Blogger @11/15/22, 9:57 AM
Spot-on analysis. Perfect really.
But you already know it will be disregarded by many of the republicans/conservatives at Althouse blog because they are desperate for victory against the forces destroying our republic and they want a simple answer for what has gone wrong for decades and they think they have found it: Trump. If he would just go away everything would work out!
It's so enticing they can't help but lunge for that simpleton's "solution".
BTW, "True Conservative" Liz Cheney sent a congradulatory message to all the Liberal Democrats she campaigned for, including a liberal democrat in Michagan, and Liberal democrat Arz Governor candidate.
Meanwhile, "True Republican" Mitt Romney refused to endorse Mike Lee in Utah. he was the only Republican Senator who didnt'. Mike Lee eventually won, but no thanks to Mittens, who was "neutral" just like he was in 2020 regarding Trump v. Biden.
To repeat, the Republican party is fractured. The establishment hates the people who vote for Republicans, so they don't want the group to actually gain control of the government, so they would rather remain a minority party than see their personal fiefdoms reduced.
11/15/22, 9:57 AM
THIS^^^
AND Achilles said...
Tank said...
The election was a full week ago. Why are some election results still outstanding?
Because the McCain wing of the Republican party is working with the democrats in key states to commit ballot fraud.
And there are a bunch of dumb Romney republicans on this board that support them by attacking Trump as if he is the problem.
11/15/22, 10:31 AM
THIS^^^^^
Drago said...
Dave Begley: "Ron the Second will crush Dementia Don. You read it here first."
So then what's the problem?
The problem.
Begley, ADMG, and Sebastian and others like them don't care about winning.
They care about making sure the Tea Party/MAGA working class voters know their place.
They care about making sure they tell everyone how much better they are than Trump and his supporters.
They don't have a plan to win. They don't care about what voters want or what policies are implemented.
They don't mind if we have open borders and endless wars and send all the working class jobs to China.
In fact that hurts the people they really don't like.
Achilles: "This is the same war inside the Republican party that started in 2012. That was the first year that we saw who the GOPe really was."
It could be argued that it started long ago (Reagan instinctively wanted Kemp in 1980 but the GOPe-ers won that battle and pushed GHWBush) and was fully exposed for the first time with the nomination of McCain in 2008.
McCain's nomination in 2008 was the very first example I could think of where a major national party nominated a candidate that openly despised his own party members/voters.
And remember, its the remnants of that McCain Arizona party machine that hand delivered the voting rules that the democraticals wanted in Arizona that cost us so dearly in the 2022 election.
Naturally, this too is some how, some way, now the fault of Trump and Trump alone.
The Trump fan base isn’t that big.
MAGA isn’t Trump and it’s not the die hard Trump fans.
So Trump is whining that DeSantis won’t attack him head on?
Michael didn’t whack the heads of the four other families and Moe Greene himself. Trump needs to understand The Godfather.
Jared is Carlo. He’s still got to answer for Sonny
mccullough said...
DeSantis would beat Trump bigly in the primary.
You people keep saying this with no rational behind it. What is your reasoning?
All the same people knew that once it came down to Trump and Cruz in 2016 Cruz would run away with the nomination.
And you said all the same things about us Trump supporters then you are saying now.
There are good arguments to make for Desantis and I agree with some of the people on this board that he has done some things better than Trump.
But if he sidles up with McConnell and the CoC he will lose.
The longer Desantis acts like Mitt Romney did in 2012 being a coward hiding behind big money PACs while they spend millions trashing other Republicans in ads and in the media the more we see who he really is. Right now Desantis is Romney 2.0.
Desantis is going to have competition. Cruz and Rubio have called out McConnell.
I think we know where the actual Republican voting base is and it is not with the CoC.
To paraphrase Flounder in Animal House, Trump: Can’t live with him, can’t live without him.
In other words, you’re fucked.
Agree with Drago about Wa St Blogger’s analysis. The 2024 primary season will be interesting. If anything is to change, it will need to be a primary of overturning incumbents.
Achilles said, "Desantis has decided to take money from the corrupt institutions and is completely silent about their attacks on Trump.
How do you think Desantis's complicity is handling it?
Desantis loses 40 states without Trump's endorsement and only wins the nomination if the GOPe rigs the primary. This is easy to see."
Trump took no money from "corrupt institutions"? Desantis needs to fight Trump's battles for him? It's not like DeSantis hasn't publicly taken stances against the FBI and the Press, so you are very wrong on that.
Lastly, DeSantis "loses 40 states without trump's endorsement"? No way.
and in terms of GoPe rigging the primary.....that's what primaries are. Rigged nomination processes to favor the party. They aren't democratic elections. So of course they'll rig it.They tried in 2016 but their field was terrible.
Trump showed you how to win.
Shhh.... nobody tell hm Trump is the loser that was beat by a guy that failed the third grade.
Earnest Prole: "To paraphrase Flounder in Animal House, Trump: Can’t live with him, can’t live without him."
Yes, that is how a one-dimensional thinker might put it.
Someone looking a bit deeper and considering the state of the republican party in the midst of a realignment with the current democratical GOTV edge + "slow steal" capability might say: "To paraphrase Flounder in Animal House, Any republican candidate: Can’t live with him/her, can’t live without him/her."
But then I have to remind myself that for some, Trump is now the fount of all that is wrong in the world and if he would just go away all would be well.
Mike Sylwester said...
Achilles at 7:49 AM
Desantis will have the same chances in the primary that Cruz had.
Achilles, I respect your opinions about a possible Trump-DeSantis race in 2024.
In the 2016 primary race, I did support Cruz, and I was surprised that he was defeated decisively by Trump in the Indiana primary election. So, Achilles, I do understand your argument about what might happen in a Trump-DeSantis 2024 election race.
After Trump won the 2016 primary-election race, I was happy to vote for him in the general election, against Hillary Clinton.
If, likewise, Trump defeats DeSantis in the 2024 primary-election race, then I will be happy to vote for him again in the general election.
That said, I still hope that DeSantis will run against Trump in 2024. Let the Republican voters decide who their candidate will be.
To be honest I hope Desantis beats Trump as well. I think most people do.
I just don't think it is very likely. People need to understand WHY Cruz lost to Trump in 2016.
Cruz lost because he was seen as the establishment choice between Trump and Cruz.
Cruz started listening to the DC consultant class and pulling stupid stunts like trying to steal delegates in Colorado. He started speaking the way they told him to speak.
Desantis is going to have to do things that convince the TEA Party/MAGA base he is not the GOPe stalking horse. Right now he is acting like the GOPe stalking horse.
1. He has a fat stack of cash from the CoC.
2. He hired the Cruz consultant team.
3. He is not calling out McConnell like Cruz and Rubio are.
4. He is not calling out the ballot fraud.
5. He is hiding in a bunker while the media and GOPe attack Trump and the TEA party candidates.
If Desantis continues to act this way and keeps this campaign team he will lose to Trump.
Achilles: "All the same people knew that once it came down to Trump and Cruz in 2016 Cruz would run away with the nomination.
And you said all the same things about us Trump supporters then you are saying now."
Interestingly, to me anyway, in 2016 I was definitely a Walker guy. I thought his outside DC perspective + legislative successes + populist appeal as a Governor ticked all my boxes. He even seemed like he had a personality. But then he hired on all those typical GOPe/DC Beltway types (including George Will's wife!) and Walker vanished, and vanished basically immediately. He went Full GOPe/DC Beltway Squish. Ugh. Very disappointing.
Next up for me was Cruz. I voted for Cruz in my state's caucus/primary/get togethers or whatever the heck it is that Colorado calls this moronic arrangement. Cruz represented the conservative outlook I had though, lets face it, he is not exactly a very appealing guy on a number of levels. I had no illusions about Cruz' national electability. I thought he would be run off the road by a Hillary and probably win only about 15 states. He's really not likeable!
But I kept watching this Trump dude and I still wasn't really buying in. He was talking about things that I wanted to see get done and it was always sandwiched between things I thought were simply head-shaking and I wasn't sure if he meant it or not.
But after he secured the nomination I thought, okay lets roll with the Non-McCain/Romney dude. What have we got to lose? There wasn't a single other candidate that got anywhere near the Okay To Support threshold. And a couple of them are democraticals now, aren't they?
And then Trump won and fought for those things I believed in and he brought in voters who had sat on their hands for years and he was attacked mercilessly by the deep state AND their GOPe allies across the board. So yeah, I'm not going to just forgive and forget the GOPe-ers and their suckups.
mccullough said...
So Trump is whining that DeSantis won’t attack him head on?
Yes.
Romney sat back in 2012 while the CoC/GOPe trashed Newt Gingrich and refused to attack Obama. We remember.
If Desantis wants to be Romney 2.0 how do you think that works out for him?
Most Republican voters will not be as stupid as the Romney supporters were in 2012.
McCullough - It is rather telling that Trump is desperate to goad DeSantis into a fight - and DeSantis isn't biting.
"Trump has massive support"
In 2016 - he won in three states with about a 30,000 vote lead. That is a nice win - but not massive. Trump is bleeding support. R's, Independents and unaffiliated are tired of him. The D's that came over to support him? I have no idea where they are. But perhaps they are still on board.
Neato Prole - how you can rise above.
Are you not fucked as well? *fixed
Achilles - who did you vote for in 2012?
Interestingly, to me anyway, in 2016 I was definitely a Walker guy. I thought his outside DC perspective + legislative successes + populist appeal as a Governor ticked all my boxes. He even seemed like he had a personality. But then he hired on all those typical GOPe/DC Beltway types (including George Will's wife!) and Walker vanished, and vanished basically immediately. He went Full GOPe/DC Beltway Squish. Ugh. Very disappointing.
I was, too, but I think the Koch brothers called and told him to get out.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "McCullough - It is rather telling that Trump is desperate to goad DeSantis into a fight - and DeSantis isn't biting."
It's not "telling" at all.
Its basic strategy. Naturally Trump is attacking both of them, that's his style and its not going to change and everyone knew/knows its coming.
Both DeSantis and Youngkin are employing the Kemp strategy of not attacking Trump back and simultaneously not distancing themselves from him too much personally. Youngkin is using his Lt Gov Sears to fight that battle which is precisely how you use a Number 2. That keeps the blue counties in VA in line for the next election.
To be honest I hope Desantis beats Trump as well. I think most people do.
I just don't think it is very likely. People need to understand WHY Cruz lost to Trump in 2016.
I am surprised to hear that from Achilles.
I believe that Trump's time is over as a candidate. He only beat Hillary and then lost the Senate as well as the presidency to Fucking Joe Biden. This is not a person who will ever be elected to national office again. Put a fork in him. He's done.
Cruz lost to Trump because he was more easily vilified at that time. His voice and his looks turned off the moderate suburban housewives, as Trump is now doing. When those moderate housewives think you are terrible boyfriend material, you are toast.
I suspect that DeSantis knows this and will feature his wife quite a bit in his 2024 campaign.
The conservative Club for Growth, once a staunch Trump ally, sent a warning shot on the eve of Trump's likely 2024 announcement by commissioning a new poll showing he trails DeSantis by double-digits in Iowa and New Hampshire, [and other states] Politico scooped.
That follows a national YouGov poll released Friday that found 42% of Republicans and Republican-leaners prefer DeSantis to be the nominee, compared to 35% for Trump, with similar figures in Texas reported Monday in a poll commissioned by the Texas GOP.
Longtime allies and advisers to Trump have urged him to postpone his 2024 announcement, largely to avoid sabotaging Republican Herschel Walker in the Georgia Senate runoff — but there are no indications he's been deterred.
Trump's ego is a bulldozer. Lets watch.
Althouse Blog Commissar: "Achilles - who did you vote for in 2012?"
He has answered this question repeatedly and if he feels like it he can answer it again. I will say that in both 2008 and 2012 I voted for McCain and Romney respectively because I have always agreed to "The Deal" that if your candidate loses in the primary, you still vote for the nominee.
But we've reached the breaking point on that Deal since you GOPe-ers as a group have never really lived up to your end of it and now, given the increasing numbers of outsiders running and winning nominations, that dynamic of only the populist conservative base adhering to The Deal while the establishment types never do is no longer operable.
Achilles: "To be honest I hope Desantis beats Trump as well. I think most people do. (because if DeSantis does beat Trump it will be because he effectively advocated for all the things that made me support Trump)
I just don't think it is very likely. People need to understand WHY Cruz lost to Trump in 2016.
Cruz lost because he was seen as the establishment choice between Trump and Cruz.
Cruz started listening to the DC consultant class and pulling stupid stunts like trying to steal delegates in Colorado. He started speaking the way they told him to speak.
Desantis is going to have to do things that convince the TEA Party/MAGA base he is not the GOPe stalking horse. Right now he is acting like the GOPe stalking horse.
1. He has a fat stack of cash from the CoC.
2. He hired the Cruz consultant team.
3. He is not calling out McConnell like Cruz and Rubio are.
4. He is not calling out the ballot fraud.
5. He is hiding in a bunker while the media and GOPe attack Trump and the TEA party candidates.
If Desantis continues to act this way and keeps this campaign team he will lose to Trump."
I am going to associate myself completely with Achilles commentary here. It sums it up well.
The primary difference between DeSantis and Trump is that DeSantis is disciplined and effective.
I must have missed Achilles answer to the 2012 vote question.
Anyone know?
AS far as Drago and Achilles being the Trump-humper twins. It's offical.
I suspect that DeSantis knows this and will feature his wife quite a bit in his 2024 campaign.
11/15/22, 11:52 AM
And look for her to be treated they same way Melania was treated....maybe worse. The Progressives found a way to attack when they own the very same media who will trash her too.
whole unreadable paragraphs from the Trump-Humper Twins.
Yes, Trump '24 looks like Bryan '08: an enthusiastic fanbase, but no path to victory. That's as much on us voters as it is on Trump.
DeSantis will probably take a wrong turn or get bogged down in DC. I wouldn't enjoy having him in the White House, but I'll vote for him anyway.
Earnest Prole: "The primary difference between DeSantis and Trump is that DeSantis is disciplined and effective."
"disciplined and effective" at delivering what type of national economic, foreign affairs, immigration and military/force structure policy decisions over the objections of ALL his key funders and advisors?
We'll wait.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "whole unreadable paragraphs from the Trump-Humper Twins."
I'm sure most paragraphs you encounter are unreadable to you. It would explain your quite astonishing ignorance of basic facts related to campaigns that you still felt compelled to comment upon.
Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed): "AS far as Drago and Achilles being the Trump-humper twins. It's offical."
Official to whom?
The Dems want him on that wall. They NEED him on that wall.
Tea bag addiction is a mental health disorder. A preverse form of pika, maybe a salt lick will satisfy the hunger.
Tea bag addiction is a mental health disorder. A preverse form of pika, maybe a salt lick will satisfy the hunger.
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
whole unreadable paragraphs from the Trump-Humper Twins.
My post is going to be tough for childish immature people with limited reading comprehension abilities.
Maynard said...
To be honest I hope Desantis beats Trump as well. I think most people do.
I just don't think it is very likely. People need to understand WHY Cruz lost to Trump in 2016.
I am surprised to hear that from Achilles.
Cruz lost to Trump because he was more easily vilified at that time. His voice and his looks turned off the moderate suburban housewives, as Trump is now doing. When those moderate housewives think you are terrible boyfriend material, you are toast.
You are talking about the 2016 republican primary. You need to frame it properly.
More people turned out in the 2016 Republican Primary than in any other primary in history. There were millions of people participating in politics for the first time.
Cruz got normal winning numbers for a Republican primary candidate.
Trump got mid ~65 million votes when he beat Hillary. He won because of first time voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.
Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, 8 digits more than any other person in history, because he brought in a completely marginalized class of people. If the Republican apparatus finds a way to shut out all of those new voters out of the primary it doesn't matter who wins.
I expect the Romney wing of the Republican party to shut independents out of as many primary elections as possible to keep those icky Trump supporters out.
The only question that matters is who can win the general. Anything else is missing the point.
If you think Trump can win it all, then by all means support him. I will too if he's the nominee.
But predicting a Trump win on the basis that he won in 2016 when people didn't give him a chance is not persuasive. Things are different. His opponents weren't really ready for him then. Now they are. People were in awe of his resistance to the media. Now that's pretty routine. The R field was very weak. Now there are some legitimate alternatives. Some people probably thought they could co-opt him and supported him for that reason. That's no longer believable. He was fresh then and had a reputation or at least presented himself as a winner. Now he's been around a long time, has taken his knocks, and the shine has come off. A lot of people were ready for a change after 8 years of Dems / Obama. Now at least some of those people want normalcy. Plus, on top of that all, and maybe the main thing, is that he was running against Hillary. This time he won't be.
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that you can never go home. Doesn't mean he's guaranteed to lose, but everything will be different this time.
One thing the midterms seemed to indicate is that the MAGA base, alone, isn't sufficient to win. And that shouldn't really surprise anyone.
Doesn't mean you have to support the turtle, but you're not going to win without a big tent. And for all the shade being thrown at the GOPe for not supporting MAGA candidates, which I completely understand, maybe the MAGA base needs to look in the mirror and ask whether it's really a good strategy to tell McCain republicans to GTFO.
I
McCain Republicans PROMISED to repeal Obamacare..if only we gave them the Senate, the house and the Presidency. We did, and John McCain himself stabbed us in the heart with a thumbs down. He did it purposely. The McCain Republicans (if there are still some) can go to hell. They aren't Republicans...they are Progressives.
What's emanating from your penumbra: "But predicting a Trump win on the basis that he won in 2016 when people didn't give him a chance is not persuasive. Things are different."
I don't believe anyone is predicting Trump would win in 2024 because of 2016. 6 months is an eternity in politics, much less 8 years.
We are simply pointing out the unique dynamic that Trump's magnetism for marginalized, lower class, working class and Latinos in particular represents and how that poses a unique challenge for anyone seeking to knock Trump out in a republican primary and then convert his voters to them.
And right now DeSantis, the proclaimed heir apparent, is working hand in glove with Trump hating GOPe-ers and globalists and that's not going to play very well with the republican party base that exists today.
FYI, I apologize to Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) for daring to write more than a single sentence. More than that seems to make his head swim and he gets cranky.
TreeJoe said...
Trump took no money from "corrupt institutions"? Desantis needs to fight Trump's battles for him? It's not like DeSantis hasn't publicly taken stances against the FBI and the Press, so you are very wrong on that.
Please post all of the comments about the Maralago raid by Desantis.
Lastly, DeSantis "loses 40 states without trump's endorsement"? No way.
If Desantis continues on his current path there will be a third party candidate if he is the nominee. 40 is kind.
and in terms of GoPe rigging the primary.....that's what primaries are. Rigged nomination processes to favor the party. They aren't democratic elections. So of course they'll rig it.They tried in 2016 but their field was terrible.
I remember the 2016 primary. You obviously don't.
People were talking about it as one of the deepest fields in history. Jeb had record amounts of money and he was a BUSH. Rubio was slick and polished and HISPANIC. Cruz was the smartest guy at Harvard or whatever law school he went to. Chris Christie. Rand Paul, some other random governors who were popular in their states.
Trump beat every one of those and you people were shocked every time he won.
First it was Jeb. His low energy instantly crushed. Then it was Little Marco. Slap. Chris Christie had his fat chance.
Then it was Cruz vs. Trump! Mano y Mano! One on one debates. Cruz was so SMART and was going to run Trump out of the building!
And now we are here with the same people saying the same thing. You people just don't understand that we are a very small number of political junkies that discuss bullshit on stupid blog board.
There are only 2 ways someone beats Trump in the primary:
1. This Someone comes in on Trump's flank and attacks Trump for being too friendly with DC and credibly promises to gut the bureaucracy and throw the corrupt politicians in jail.
2. The GOPe shuts out the Trump supporters from participating in the primary.
If someone, even Desantis, goes with option 2 then he will lose 49 or 50 states because he will get fewer votes than the 3rd party candidate gets.
What's emanating from your penumbra said..."maybe the MAGA base needs to look in the mirror and ask whether it's really a good strategy to tell McCain republicans to GTFO."
I've already written that I believe that was a mistake and I'll bet Kari thinks it was a mistake too. Of course, it came on the heels of more Meghan McCain attacks on Lake as well as Liz Cheney's endorsement and campaigning for democraticals in AZ, not that its an excuse. Lake ran a very consistent and disciplined campaign for the most part so that event certainly stands out as an aberration.
"Doesn't mean you have to support the turtle, but you're not going to win without a big tent."
I'm afraid we are in a bit of binary world right now. There isn't really a "middle road/pox on both your houses/can't we all just get along" path to take at this time. It's going to be zero sum for awhile.
What's emanating from your penumbra said...
The only question that matters is who can win the general. Anything else is missing the point.
If you think Trump can win it all, then by all means support him. I will too if he's the nominee.
That is not the only question. The only question is will the candidate put Americans first.
We would have been worse off with Romney than with Obama.
I will not support a party with Mitch McConnell or Mitt Romney in it. They are worse than the democrats.
But predicting a Trump win on the basis that he won in 2016 when people didn't give him a chance is not persuasive. Things are different. His opponents weren't really ready for him then. Now they are. People were in awe of his resistance to the media. Now that's pretty routine.
Agreed. We have to deal with the ballot harvesting. Nobody will win an election with that in place. To be honest I don't think we are voting our way out of this.
The R field was very weak. Now there are some legitimate alternatives.
I already addressed this above. This is 100% wrong.
It is really shocking how short people's memories are on this board. You need to go read what happened in 2012 and 2016 again.
Doesn't mean you have to support the turtle, but you're not going to win without a big tent. And for all the shade being thrown at the GOPe for not supporting MAGA candidates, which I completely understand, maybe the MAGA base needs to look in the mirror and ask whether it's really a good strategy to tell McCain republicans to GTFO.
No.
Wars. Medicaid Part B. Romneycare. Amnesty. Open Borders. Free trade with China.
ROMNEYCARE.
We have Romneycare because of Republicans. It was Republicans that betrayed us and kept that in place after we elected them in 2016.
If you want all of that stuff go vote for a Democrat and be honest about it.
Hunter Biden's tax payer funded Hooker said...
I must have missed Achilles answer to the 2012 vote question.
Anyone know?
You are just too stupid and lazy to read.
I have said repeatedly I didn't vote for Romney. Early on in the general I supported him and tried to get people to turn out for him for a while. But when voting day arrived he had failed too many times to convince me he wasn't the person that passed Romneycare in Massachusetts.
I supported Gingrich in the primary. Gingrich was the only person in the last 50 years to balance a federal budget and the GOPe teamed up with Democrats to run him out of office. Santorum was a religious right person and that isn't my bag. But he was better than Romney.
I abstained because I would not support the author of the government program that caused the TEA party to form. We still have Romneycare today because of Republicans, not Democrats.
I did not endorse the shocking way that Gingrich and Santorum were treated by the massive amounts of money the GOPe spent to attack them.
I also did not like the pathetic general election campaign that Romney ran.
In the end I decided it was better for democrats to take the blame for their policies rather than have a Republican pass their crap for them.
Trump got 75 million votes in 2020, 8 digits more than any other person in history, because he brought in a completely marginalized class of people. If the Republican apparatus finds a way to shut out all of those new voters out of the primary it doesn't matter who wins.
This is truth. I think Trump is obsessed with 2020 and that is a handicap. But I wonder if DeSantis can attack all those Trump voters and, of course, the Democrats have been polishing their fraud machine.
Howard said...
Tea bag addiction is a mental health disorder. A preverse form of pika, maybe a salt lick will satisfy the hunger.
Howard might be as stupid and childish as the Romney supporters.
But at least he is honest about who he supports.
Achilles (to Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed)): "You are just too stupid and lazy to read.
I have said repeatedly I didn't vote for Romney."
Given that its the Althouse Blog Commissar (self-appointed) you're dealing with, you are going to need to repeat that many, many more times before it sinks in....assuming it ever does...which you shouldn't assume.
I’m not convinced that Trump can win the nomination in 2024. I am convinced that if he loses the nomination, he’ll claim he was cheated by the party bosses, the globalists and the elitists, and he’ll encourage his supporters to sit out the general election.
Douglas B. Levene: "I’m not convinced that Trump can win the nomination in 2024. I am convinced that if he loses the nomination, he’ll claim he was cheated by the party bosses, the globalists and the elitists, and he’ll encourage his supporters to sit out the general election."
You've been "convinced" of quite a few stupid things over the last handful of years. It's probably wise to continue to gin up these future hypotheticals so that you can be "right" at least a few times.
By the way, let us know about those weapons caches around DC that Trump supposedly helped coordinate with his fellow "insurrectionists".......LOL
Did you catch Wray's "testimony" today? Refuses to say how many of his agent provocateurs were dressed as Trump supports IN the capital.....after having exposed the fact that at least 8 of the Oath Keepers were actually being run by the FBI.
For those just tuning in, Doug Levene is a "bigly" Trump-Insurrectionist story fanboy.
And it looks like we have the inevitable follow on to the Hutaree Militia (FBI run) case and Whitmer Fednapping case with what is increasingly looking like a full blown Fedsurrection.
Not to worry Doug. You're GOPe pals will make any investigation doesn't go too far. Perhaps the feds can still use their fake pipe bomb hoax to get after Trump!
Speaker of the House for Life could be more useful, partisan and powerful than a one term President. Sam Rayburn for example. Speaker Trump would easily overshadow Biden and whatever milquetoast succeeds him.
It surprises me that everyone is taking a Politico poll seriously.
I certainly am not.
The GOPe will be happy to welcome you into the Big Tent and they'd love your vote. Just don't expect any invitations to the Big Club.
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