WaPo reports in "How TikTok ate the internet/The world’s most popular app has pioneered a new age of instant attention. Can we trust it?"
That's worded confusingly. It's not saying the average American watches TikTok for 80 minutes a day. It's the average within the set of Americans who watch TikTok. So... how many is that? Based on estimates by Cloudflare, Data.ai and Sensor Tower, WaPo says there are more 100 million TikTok viewers in the United States. And:
Two-thirds of American teens use the app, and 1 in 6 say they watch it “almost constantly,” a Pew Research Center survey in August found; usage of Facebook among the same group has been cut in half since 2015....
People are watching because it works so well and so much better than Facebook and Instagram:
Silicon Valley taught the world a style of online connectivity built on hand-chosen interests and friendships. TikTok doesn’t care about those. Instead, it unravels for viewers an endless line of videos selected by its algorithm, then learns a viewer’s tastes with every second they watch, pause or scroll. You don’t tell TikTok what you want to see. It tells you. And the internet can’t get enough. “We’re not talking about a dance app,” said Abbie Richards, a researcher who studies disinformation on TikTok, where she has half a million followers. “We’re talking about a platform that’s shaping how a whole generation is learning to perceive the world.”...
While Facebook and other social networks rely on their users to define themselves by typing in their interests or following famous people, TikTok watches and learns, tapping into trends and desires their users might not identify. The system runs on a sophisticated machine-learning engine — ByteDance researchers have championed its “sub-linear computational complexity”...
This is bad news for the existing entrenched interests and already-famous people. Anyone or anything can gain currency, just by being interesting in the moment. So threatening to the powers that be and those who are pushing things that are already popular. Are these the people who instinctively portray TikTok as nefarious and, also, mindless — just teenagers dancing? It's about more than mindless dancing:
One in three TikTok viewers in the United States said they regularly use it to learn about current events, Pew Research Center said last month. In the United Kingdom, it’s the fastest-growing news source for adults. (The Washington Post’s TikTok account has more than a million followers.)
I'd like to hear more about the political fears among the powerful (and not just about the connection to China but how the powerful in America are threatened). But the article skirts that topic and concentrates on the threat to the American business of social media:
I'd like to hear more about Republicans and Democrats and how they are worried about what this free-speech medium is doing to them, but I do note that the word "Republican" jumped up there. Meta used a Republican lobbying firm.At a time when Silicon Valley’s stock prices are crumbling, TikTok’s success has triggered deep jealousy — especially for Facebook, which in February reported it had lost users for the first time in its 18-year history. (The top link on all of Facebook in the second quarter of this year was TikTok, Facebook’s parent company Meta said.)
Meta tried beating TikTok by hiring a Republican lobbying firm to undertake a secretive letter-writing and lobbying campaign calling it the “real threat” to America’s teens. But by the summer, Meta ended up just copying TikTok’s style, ditching its focus on people’s friends and families and swapping in computer-selected unknowns....
Posts
84 comments:
It's official: The ChiComs have taken over. (And our hostess is helping them do so.)
Can we trust it? Don't make me laugh. A friend with a Masers in cyber security, who used to Dox terrorists for the government, calls TikTok a Chinese Swiss cheese app.
Duh. Zuck the Cuck is a Trumpsters whom helped Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica on Brexit and 2016. They know that conspiracy ideation fuels you people into a spittle flecking mouth foaming waking fever dream. Apparently that doesn't extend down into the GenZ demographic.
"People are watching because it works so well and so much better than Facebook and Instagram"
1. Aren't those ChiCom TikTok developers just so darn clever?
2. In any case, being "better" than Facebook and Instagram is truly a low bar.
Amazon Prime recommends movies like ones in your Continue Watching list, those being ones you've bailed out of.
facebook sux. Leave it in the dust like the Dick and liz war monger for mega bucks Cheney.
One wonders what Meta considers a 'Republican' lobbying firm. Maybe something similar to a Lynn Cheney Republican would be my guess.
A few things I've learned this week.
1) Election software CEO is charged with allegedly giving Chinese contractors data access. The CEO is Chinese. His company is based in East Lansing, but does work- election work- all over. The servers and access are in China. Nice touch.
2) Over 100 million TikTok users in the US?
3) 1 in 6 teens use it constantly? I wonder how many teens have read Moby Dick?
4) It's the fastest growing news source for adults in the UK? Seriously?
The nefarious part is that nothing, and I mean, nothing coming from China is innocuous. The Chinese have a purpose for everything they do with technology, especially that which is exported and manipulated for the rest of the world.
Want to target the US? How many ways can we do this? Well...destroy their elections. Destroy their education system. Destroy their youth by sending in tons of fentanyl, and curating their culture and history through our own subtle algorithms.
I know, I know. I view your TikToks everyday and they're cute or funny or not. They all seem harmless. But if you're a teenager or young person with your face in it for hours a day, hours a week, that algorithm is working on you,, directing you, and moving you.
And suddenly you have 68% of young people claiming to be gay or unsure of their gender. Funny how through the mllennia that never happened, but now it's a rush to claim multiple genders.
Sorry. I don't see anything coming from China as benign.
Do any middle aged or elderly TikTok superfans around here spend time around teenagers whose brains are melting out their ears and whose attention spans are ever shortening, and thus develop a healthy distaste for and distrust of the platform? Do those folks have any idea what this is doing to our intellectual and civic future? Just wondering.
My 16 year old, who is smarter and more suspicious than the average bear, pointed out yesterday that while she occasionally watches it (coin of the realm, etc) she despised TikTok because it takes the lack of sourcing and unreliableness of YouTube and mates it with the scrolling / dopamine cycle of social media in general. She says her peers get all their attitudes, news and information from unsourced clips on TT and despite the best efforts of some of their better teachers* to encourage them to consider the sources, etc, it’s a lost cause.
What could possibly go wrong?
*the ones who aren’t 25 year old social media addicts themselves, but that’s another rant for another day
Wow .. considering my TikTok viewing averages 80 seconds a day at most, some of y'all are really bingeing on it.
Meta used a Republican lobbying firm.
Probably didn’t want their appeal lost in a screed of gender and racial politics.
Researcher: The average Facebook lover stays online for eighteen minutes. The average TikTok fan watches for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Zuckerberg: How can that be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given? "I want to see what the algorithm will bring up next."
Suck: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate TikTok?
Researcher: Good point. The average TikTok hater watches for two and a half hours a day.
Zuck: But... if they hate it, why do they watch?
Researcher: Most common answer? "I want to see what the algorithm will bring up next."
80 minutes? Really?
To be honest. I don't find them all that entertaining. Not 80 minutes worth anyway.
People are watching because it works so well, at addicting people
The chinese communists must be PROUD!
first covid, then tiktok. They've ruined america
I do note that the word "Republican" jumped up there. Meta used a Republican lobbying firm.
I read that as saying they hired a firm that already had an eye on China and had done work looking into China's power and influence in the US rather than one of the pro-China firms.
So if the average American watches it 80 minutes a day, that means the 100 million who do watch it, average 4 hours a day? I am one of the 230 million who virtually never watches it.
I suppose it's replaced TV. I'm curious what has happened to television hours watched. When I was growing up there were statistics saying people watched 6 hours/day. I hope that's down to about one hour.
Americans trust the Chinese more than they trust Corporate US Oligarchs that spend billions of dollars to elect democrats.
Tik Tok is built to collect data and ship it to China.
Instagram and Facebook are built to shun/shame everyone to the right of Mao.
Both are evil. Democrats just spend more time telling everyone how close minded and shitty they are. The Chinese are more pragmatic about the effort.
"Over 100 million TikTok users in the US?"
Yes.
From the article: "No app has grown faster past a billion users, and more than 100 million of them are in the United States, roughly a third of the country. The average American viewer watches TikTok for 80 minutes a day — more than the time spent on Facebook and Instagram, combined."
“We’re talking about a platform that’s shaping how a whole generation is learning to perceive the world.”
A Chinese-owned platform.
A Chinese-owned platform that's configured differently for the Chinese than it is for Westerners, whose eyelids are propped open like Alex in Clockwork Orange with the same behavior-modifying intention to conform. Except that the conformity is to nihilism.
It was a good ride, Western Civ.
I would think that it is a replacement for tv. Facebook is like flipping through a magazine and not as satisfying as a boredom killer. TV was always best at that, serving up video entertainment. Tik Tok seems to have combined TV with the gambling nature of slot machines to result in endless joy.
What a waste of human potential. Look at how the average person could expand their minds by watching a 50 min online class three times a week and doing some homework instead of watching mind fluff. Don’t we have 50 pct of kids going to college now? But little interest in education for the public.
"I know, I know. I view your TikToks everyday and they're cute or funny or not. They all seem harmless. But if you're a teenager or young person with your face in it for hours a day, hours a week, that algorithm is working on you,, directing you, and moving you."
I disagree with just about everything you are saying there. You think the Tiktoks I put up are all just trying to be cute or funny? There is so much more going on on TikTok than you seem to realize. It is shaping opinion around so many issues, spiraling out in ways you are not seeing. Harmless? That's like saying the printing press was "harmless." It is amplified, fast-moving speech, and you seem to be in denial.
You think teenagers are just passively being worked on. That's more true of schools and mass media. With TikTok, they can easily make videos as soon as they want and what they make will go into the algorithm where it is tested by what other people feel interested in. This is very grass roots, enabled by TikTok. Users will get new videos based on what they've shown interest in, so much of it is a journey into your own mind. It's also a hybrid of your mind and the minds of others, which is what a culture/society does.
This is too big and too important to just turn away from. It is how your world is working now. You need to see that it is working so powerfully because it works SO well. It is a great product. Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door — that's the old saying. In social media, TikTok is clearly the better mousetrap. Those of you shouting from the sidelines "But it's a mousetrap from China!!!" are repeating yourselves over and over. It doesn't work on me. I'm more worried about what our own government is doing, so I'm not convinced to use Twitter or Facebook instead of TikTok.
"It collects massive amounts of data on every American who installs it, beginning with your physical location, all your Contacts, all their Contacts, what you do on your phone, what you read on your phone ... everything you do on your phone."
If you respond to a prompt by allowing it to reach your contacts, it will reach your contacts. I always say no to prompts like that.
Why would Apple allow this app to be available in its App Store if it did the spying you believe it does and if you believe that why don't you believe other social media, made in America (or wherever) is doing that? Have you been listening to Facebook-funded propaganda?
Ann Althouse said...
Why would Apple allow this app to be available in its App Store if it did the spying you believe it does and if you believe that why don't you believe other social media, made in America (or wherever) is doing that? Have you been listening to Facebook-funded propaganda?
Where are IPhones made?
What does Google collect?
"that algorithm is working on you, directing you, and moving you."
Althouse responds: "I disagree with just about everything you are saying there . . . There is so much more going on on TikTok than you seem to realize. It is shaping opinion around so many issues, spiraling out in ways you are not seeing. Harmless?"
Is this a disagreement?
Anyway, thesis: TikTok is the virtual equivalent of fentanyl. I invite you to think deeply about this.
It is directing antisocial content at youths and millenials its a weapon
Unknown said...
Ya'll are proper fked. Your own government doesn't give two shits about you or your nations security.
That isn't totally true.
Our government does care about the nations security.
The issue is that they only care about the security of their power over the people they want to rule. They aren't mad about what tik tok is doing.
The government is mad that tik tok is being more successful at spying on americans than they are.
I'm confused. I think I might watch TikTok for hours, but I don't have the app and find the Althouse daily list uninteresting. No offense, Professor, but your algorithm apparently doesn't speak to me. What I sends me down the rabbit hole of compulsive viewing are YouTube shorts, many of which have the TikTok logo in the corner. How did that happen?
Anyhow I usually watch when I need a distraction and Althouse and her community haven't posted for a while. Which means I only watch every few days, but when I do it may be for 2 or 3 hours. Do I need to clutch my faux pearls and fear the CCP?
I don't TT, but I use YouTube in a similar way. I love scrolling through the random stuff the algorithm recommends. Sometimes it's tethered to my previous watches, but I just reload until I get new and weird suggestions. I've found so many interesting channels in such a diverse selection. Things I didn't know I'd like -- men's historical tailoring, for instance -- just fascinate me. And I love that all these strange people can create what they obsess about, and others will watch. It reinforces my belief in humanity.
"I would think that it is a replacement for tv. Facebook is like flipping through a magazine and not as satisfying as a boredom killer. TV was always best at that, serving up video entertainment. Tik Tok seems to have combined TV with the gambling nature of slot machines to result in endless joy."
It's better than TV in that it's more concise and it's continually, in the moment, designed around YOUR interests. With a TV show, you have to care about various characters and stories. Why is that more valuable? It's much more time consuming. And look at how much time young people have put into playing video games. And what of these Meta "worlds" Mark Zuckerberg would like them to "explore" inside a VR headset.
A slot machine has no content at all. It just offers maybe to give you money. That's a very different and incredibly stupid activity.
Ann Althouse said...
What does Google collect?
Would you like a comprehensive list? I have a few examples.
They collect information on where your mouse pointer moves, how close it gets to buttons, whether it moves towards button at all, how long it hovers over a button before you click it.
The most important piece of data they track is "Click Through" rate.
They track how long you are on a web page, how quickly you scroll down it, how long you pause and where you pause.
Your locations, whether you were moving while reading the web page, if you were in a car or in a store while on a web page.
If you use Chrome things get really nutty.
Link to Joe Rogan's comments about Tiktok. Also pasted the entire text for anyone who does not like to click on Fox News links. I am skeptical that clicking "no" on the privacy warning prevents ALL of this data being collected by Tiktok!
Joe Rogan Slams TikTok
Published July 26, 2022 7:41pm EDT
Joe Rogan slams TikTok: 'It ends with China having all of your data'
U.S. officials have previously warned that TikTok, owned by a Chinese company, poses a threat to American security
Joe Silverstein
By Joe Silverstein | Fox News
Joe Rogan expressed concerns Tuesday that TikTok, one of the most used social media apps in the world, poses a unique threat to Americans' data privacy and safety.
TikTok is owned by Bytedance, a Chinese company. China's Civil Military Fusion Policy and 2017 National Intelligence Law requires private businesses in China to share information and data at the request of the Chinese government.
"I read TikTok's terms of service, I went down a TikTok rabbit hole yesterday…This is so crazy," Rogan said on the latest episode of the Joe Rogan Experience.
"Is it good or bad?" interjected his guest, podcaster and comedian Theo Von.
"Bad!" Rogan responded.
"Listen to this, this is from TikTok's privacy policy," Rogan said. "It said, ‘We collect certain information about the device you use to access the platform, such as your IP address, user region.' This is really crazy."
"'User agent, mobile carrier, time zone settings, identifiers for advertising purpose, model of your device, the device system, network type, device IDs, your screen resolution and operating system, app and file names and types,'" he continued.
"So all your apps and all your file names, all the things you have filed away on your phone, they have access to that," he said. "'File names and types, keystroke patterns or rhythms.'"
"So they're monitoring your keystrokes, which means they know every f---ing thing you type," Rogan added.
"'Battery state, audio settings and connected audio devices, where you log in from multiple devices, we will be able to use your profile information to identify your activity across devices. We may also associate you with information collected from devices other than those you use to log into the platform'" Rogan said.
"Meaning they can use other computers that you're not even using to log into TikTok. They can suck the data off that. That's what you're agreeing to when you download and start using TikTok," he said.
Von asked Rogan, "It's insane… Do you think they created TikTok just on purpose to have all that?"
"100 percent," Rogan responded.
"Just tell me how it ends man," said Von.
"It ends with China having all of your data," Rogan said.
Rogan also mentioned the bank runs in China and the country's Central Bank Digital Currency.
"What's going on in China, I don't know if you've seen this, but they pulled tanks in front of banks to stop people from f---ing rioting because they just took all their money," he said.
Rogan also mentioned the risks posed to freedom by China's digital currency, which it weaponizes to control its population. "If you see what's going on over there, with the digital currency, what they have is the ability to tell you, you can't buy gas. Like, "Hey Theo, we don't like the way you're living your life, so you're not going to be able to buy a plane ticket,'" Rogan said.
Joe Silverstein is a production assistant for Fox News Digital.
What is the best use of one's time? Are you always maximizing your time and doing high-quality time? Are you annoyed at pastimes in proportion to how low they really are?
Oh, I'm going to make this into a new post. Hang on...
The world’s most popular app has pioneered a new age of instant attention. Can we trust it?"
Ummm. No.
Serious question for our professor; How many minutes a day, do YOU spend on tiktok?
Why do I compare tictok with COVID?
People still watch Saturday Night Democrat.
That's a complete waste of time.
If you have to sell the post with “Some people like them”.......
Yeah, I don’t care for the toctick posts!
Haven't we gone through a similar phase of hot-new-thing hysteria over every social media? At one time, the talk was that Facebook was going to hypnotize us, grab all of our data, and take over all of our interactions with each other. Now it's a fading relic. And the scare talk about it's going to destroy the younger generation -- people probably said the same about the telephone. So enjoy TikTok while it lasts, and don't freak out. Something else will be along to take its place in a couple of years.
If true, that is a terrifying statistic
"Serious question for our professor; How many minutes a day, do YOU spend on tiktok?"
Less than an hour. I spend more time just reading things in an old-time browser, mostly legacy media that you see in my blog posts.
I watch TikTok when I'm not in blogging mode and not doing anything in the "real world" and just want to relax and be surprised and charmed by random things.
It's like the old TV channel-surfing but without the idea that you might find something to watch. You're already watching. There's no long show to find and stop on.
"If you have to sell the post with “Some people like them”"
You identify yourself as someone who doesn't get the reference and isn't in on the joke, which has been patiently explained but won't be explained anymore.
"The world’s most popular app has pioneered a new age of instant attention. Can we trust it?"/"Ummm. No."
The headline is by one of the world's most successful legacy media. Can we trust it?
Can we trust anything?
What is trusted to the greatest detriment and what has potential to rescue us from the betrayals of trust that will inevitably occur in life among the humans?
Proud to admit I have yet to EVER watch a tic toc video.
I ignore TikTok except for the occasional (once a week) video for the same reason I haven’t owned a television since 1999: If I want to watch something I pursue it; I don’t let it pursue me.
I understood what the sentence meant. A lot of people wouldn't. That's how these factoids, rumors, and myths get started. Glenn Kessler will factcheck them and never mentioned that his own paper launched them.
Tiktok at least has the possibility of original content, Hollywood doesn't offer that. Granted, it's easier to be original for 30 seconds than for 90 minutes. It's also true that people are fleeing midsize forms (films, episodic TV) for forms longer (long arc television) and shorter (internet videos).
It does seem like a waste of time to me, but the things that I bother with online probably strike other people as a waste of time. Often I feel that way myself about what I watch.
No wonder 2/3 of US teenagers are stupid.
This is bad news for the existing entrenched interests ...
Including The Washington Post.
"If you respond to a prompt by allowing it to reach your contacts, it will reach your contacts. I always say no to prompts like that."
I'd bet the house it collects your contact data anyway.
I bought a new TV a couple of years ago. Smart TV of course (that's all that's sold now), powered by Google. Except I didn't want to use it as a "Smart TV", so during setup I declined everything and wouldn't let it connect to my WiFi. Sometime during the next few months it connected itself to my WiFi anyways.
I have Windows computers and I manually turn off all the invasive, spying stuff. Except those things get turned back on by "updates".
It's all spyware. That's how they make their money.
Howard, Zuck the cuck took payment from Cambridge Analytica to allow some limited data mining. He subsequently gave the Obama campaign full and free access to all data held by his company.
As to your projections about conspiracy theorists and their saliva levels, look in a mirror.
Ann: :I disagree with just about everything you are saying there. You think the Tiktoks I put up are all just trying to be cute or funny? There is so much more going on on TikTok thaet's like saying the printing press was "harmless." It is amplified, fast-moving speech, and you seem to be in denial."
No, I do not think they are all just trying to be cute or funny. But the ones I've seen from you seem to be. I will acknowledge that I don't view them nightly and even when I do, I rarely get through them all. They just don't interest me that much. My algorithm would clearly not be the same as yours. There may be some greater point in some of them, but honestly, in the few I've viewed, there's not much that sticks with me. There is no question it's a platform showcasing the great creativity of humankind. That's all good. And if someone could build a better mousetrap they would. And they will at some point. (Remember when Twitter was IT? When Facebook was IT? When the New York Times was IT?)
How it shapes opinions is what I'm concerned about. I did not say TikTok was harmless. My argument is just the opposite. IF it was not being run by the Chinese, if it was operated by some beneficent being with no judgement, no cause, no long-term plan, but just for the benefit of humankind and all of it's beings, that would be great. But sorry, the Chinese have made it clear what their goal is and made no bones that it affects virtually everything they do.
That it is amplified moving speech is my point exactly. That it can be directing and manipulating thought is one thing. That the ultimate controller of that is a country hostile to freedom is something I cannot slough off. It's not just a better 'mousetrap'. It's very real and working. I love the concept of TikTok. I don't love who built and operates it. I don't trust them. There is history and their own words for me to acknowledge. I might be on the fringe on this. So be it. It's what I see. It's what my gut tells me.
BTW- I am every bit as worried about how corrupt and diabolical our own government has become. That does not mean I quit watching, reading, and listening to what China tells us it's going to do. And for me the ultimate test is how I would feel if my grandkids spent their waking hours watching TikTok. I guess I'll get the chance to find out. I have two sets of them. In one family it's videos all the time. In the other, it's no videos unless parents approve and even then, only a bit. All bets are off when they get a bit older.
"IF it was not being run by the Chinese, if it was operated by some beneficent being with no judgement, no cause, no long-term plan, but just for the benefit of humankind and all of it's beings, that would be great. But sorry, the Chinese have made it clear what their goal is and made no bones that it affects virtually everything they do."
It's not *run* by the Chinese government, and I don't know why you're not also afraid of American media companies, who have shown that they aren't dedicated to truth and freedom.
What have "the Chinese" made so clear to you? And, sorry — to use your rhetorical device — but there's nothing reassuring about the lack of clarity from Americans and from the American government.
You identify yourself as someone who doesn't get the reference and isn't in on the joke, which has been patiently explained but won't be explained anymore.
Can it still be a joke after it’s patiently explained?
The "average American" TikTok viewer has a head filled with Jello.
Meantime, even with you tik-tok posts, which may or may not be interesting to me, my daily time consuming tik-tok videos remains at zero. I spend more minutes a day reading about tik-tok then viewing.
Althouse: If you respond to a prompt by allowing it to reach your contacts, it will reach your contacts. I always say no to prompts like that.
With genuine respect and affection for our host, this is so naive. I'm surprised.
Temujin:
I love the concept of TikTok. I don't love who built and operates it. I don't trust them. There is history and their own words for me to acknowledge. I might be on the fringe on this.
You're not on the fringe, even though TT is wildly popular and every day more so. You (and I) may simply be in the minority. But there are plenty of national security specialists and psychologists who are describing it as the threat it is. On top of the screen addiction, it's fueling some of our social pathologies, for example as a major vector of transgender mutilation. One of many reasons China doesn't permit it back home. That's not a red flag, it's a fire battalion racing down the highway with sirens blaring. Those who can hear, will hear.
I watch some posted here. Some are quite impressive or fun or thoughtful or moving. But for me their main impact is as a window into how China's national security state is weaponzing our own entertainment culture against us. And that's a multi-layered strategy I'll not attempt to summarize, as I tear myself away from this screen and venture outside on a beautiful Sunday afternoon.
My Grandma used to really like America's Funniest Home Videos.
It's because younger people can't read very well. Google Search, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram rely too much on text.
My comment about TV and slot machines is to explain the apps popularity. It combines the ease of watching with the reward response of a slot machine.
I don't have the app but appreciate your selections to watch and am impressed on some of the content. When I talk to others they lament the ease of watching video after video and in the usual fashion compare it to an addictive substance.
You Tube likely wished they had the tik tok success but for some reason the friction of you tube exceeds tik tok and the users have chosen.
I do enjoy Facebook reels (their version of TikTok), and I watch them in bed most nights. But you can follow the posters you like and block the ones you don't like. FB already has my data and I won't be leaving while I admin a successful fan club group.
"Can it still be a joke after it’s patiently explained?"
The joke was always in remembering something and noticing it when it comes around again, so in this case, yes.
"With genuine respect and affection for our host, this is so naive. I'm surprised."
It's part of the functionality of iPhone. Do you really think Apple is lying to us about that? If you do, you should worry about tons of other apps, not just TikTok.
And how can you stand Facebook, which is all about your contacts?
How much of the anxiety about apps spying on you is about porn? I don't go to any porn sites, ever. So this element is missing from my concerns. When I wonder what people are so afraid will be learned from what you've clicked on, I — as someone who goes places that I then talk about openly on this blog — think about what's in your phone that might be troubling you.
This figure shocks me - I guess I am far from average. I only view TikTok once in a while, through YouTube. I am dedicated to landscape format. The phone format is too small and clearly aimed at younger eyes. Never understood how anyone could view hours of content on something that small.
TikTok doesn’t care about those. Instead, it unravels for viewers an endless line of videos selected by its algorithm, then learns a viewer’s tastes with every second they watch, pause or scroll. You don’t tell TikTok what you want to see. It tells you....“We’re talking about a platform that’s shaping how a whole generation is learning to perceive the world.”.
The Chinese Communist Government's TikTok doesn’t care about those. Instead, the Chinese Communist Government unravels for viewers an endless line of videos selected by their algorithm, then the Chinese Communist Government learns a viewer’s tastes with every second they watch, pause or scroll. You don’t tell TikTok what you want to see. The Chinese Communist Government tells you....“We’re talking about the Chinese Communist Government shaping how a whole generation is learning to perceive the world.”
Silicon Valley taught the world a style of online connectivity built on hand-chosen interests and friendships. TikTok doesn’t care about those. Instead, it unravels for viewers an endless line of videos selected by its algorithm, then learns a viewer’s tastes with every second they watch, pause or scroll. You don’t tell TikTok what you want to see. It tells you. And the internet can’t get enough. “We’re not talking about a dance app,” said Abbie Richards, a researcher who studies disinformation on TikTok, where she has half a million followers. “We’re talking about a platform that’s shaping how a whole generation is learning to perceive the world.”
A free press taught the world a style of connectivity built on hand-chosen interests and friendships. New York Times and Washington Post, et al. don’t care about those. Instead, they unravel for readers/viewers an endless line of stories selected by its editors...You don’t tell NYT and WaPo what you want to read. They tell you. And some bloggers can’t get enough....“We’re talking about a platform that’s shaping how a whole generation is learning to perceive the world.”
It's not *run* by the Chinese government
I'll just leave that hanging there in the air.
"It's part of the functionality of iPhone. Do you really think Apple is lying to us about that? If you do, you should worry about tons of other apps, not just TikTok."
I do "worry" about all apps. I have to really want what an app offers before I'll load it. It's a risk/benefit assessment. The risk may be low, but in most cases so are the benefits. With respect to TikTok, it appears one of the risks is consuming an hour a day with nothing to show for it.
As to Apple not lying, they'd have to be better than Google to not be. And maybe they are. But it's more complicated than that. Apple has to trust that the apps aren't lying to them.
"When I wonder what people are so afraid will be learned from what you've clicked on, I — as someone who goes places that I then talk about openly on this blog — think about what's in your phone that might be troubling you."
One thing I worry about is identity theft. What a head ache that would be. Another is just spam and unwanted targeted ads. Don't need them; don't want them.
I've watched as much TikTok as my time spent on Twitter.
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After five years of false clamor and freakout that the Trump administration was run by the Russian government, I guess I'm a little skeptical about a new clamor and freakout that TikTok is run by the Chinese government.
"How much of the anxiety about apps spying on you is about porn? I don't go to any porn sites, ever."
I don't either, but I am concerned about this app.
1) The possibility of malicious code buried within the app to steal other information, such as financial information and logins.
2) Not for me personally, but in general: huge boon to spycraft. I do not work in the Chinese government, but if I did, I can think of a million ways I would use this data. They've created a gigantic data lake for 100 million Americans.
If I want a bit of info, I'm going to look through the people who work for the place where I can get it and find a person or people who work there that I think I have the best chance of successfully approaching. I will know exactly how to approach them based on all the data I have. Additionally, I will check the people who seem to have lots of embarrassing or unsavory interests. Do they have access to information I want? Perhaps these are people I can compromise and force into helping me. I will know just how to tempt them to get them into compromising situations.
And it's quite a pool for studying how to create effective propaganda in different cultures. Here are some people I want to influence. What catches their attention? What makes them want to see more and more of something? TikTok is great for studying this because there aren't competing pressures, like friend-pleasing. It's just each individual alone on his phone scrolling past or watching in privacy. And each bit of content is very short, so I have many, many data points for myself or an AI to sift through. Excellent.
Continuing...
Maybe it would be good if a group, let's say the youth, of my rival country were demotivated. Perhaps I could toss a little more corrosive content their way. Just a little, dribs and drabs, until some of them take an interest, and then I'm happy to give them as much as they'll stand for without decreasing their engagement with the app.
Or maybe I want them to feel more warmly about something. Heck, maybe I would like to undercut support within a country for military intervention against something I would like to do. Perhaps I'll promote content that serves my purpose. Or maybe I will depress content that remotely touches on the topic, or even my entire country, for a while. How important will they feel it to be if they never see anything about it?
And on and on and on...
@Freeman
Re #1 — this would have to be a problem with all apps. The device itself should have protections. If it doesn't, disaster.
As to the legit info they are openly collecting — yes, they have a lot to use to try to figure out how the human mind works — what we'll pay attention to, what we enjoy. That could be used to persuade us of other things.
"TikTok is great for studying this because there aren't competing pressures, like friend-pleasing. It's just each individual alone on his phone scrolling past or watching in privacy. And each bit of content is very short, so I have many, many data points for myself or an AI to sift through."
Yes, the AI will take all the info and figure out how to talk to us in ways that we will find appealing and persuasive. I don't know if individuals can do it. And I don't know if we will keep listening if we know it's AI talking to us. Maybe we will love what they say or prefer it.
Say I want to influence someone who isn't even on TikTok. I can find out which TikTok users are connected to the person in real life using other data and attempt to subtly influence those people instead. How might my target be influenced by being surrounded by people I have been influencing?
"Re #1 — this would have to be a problem with all apps. The device itself should have protections. If it doesn't, disaster."
The protections aren't the same because the app comes out of China. Who will you hold accountable? Manufacturers in China routinely steal designs and tech, but it is difficult to enforce a copyright or patent against them. If someone in the US puts out an app like that, he'll likely go to jail. Plus, the Chinese government has a much freer hand to involve itself in Chinese businesses than our government has here. It would be like if the NSA could open a department in your office with or without your agreement. And you could hold the information until you really needed it to hamper someone in particular or to create a moment of widespread financial chaos.
I have concerns about both META and TikTok, chief among an ever growing list of Internet companies not deserving of trust (Et Tu, PayPal?). But strictly as an App - IG (people under 30 don't use Facebook) increases negative feelings like self-loathing and jealously, and TikTok at least provides laughs. So I can't say I hate to see TT taking screen time away from Zuck.
I strongly concur with your post at 8:55am, Prof Althouse, and with what I believe to be your take on TikTok in this and previous posts. TikTok and platforms like it, and the platforms that will succeed it, are here to stay, and they’re ingenious and subtle almost beyond imagining, in part because artificial intelligences are growing exponentially in power and sophistication. Some people love them!
I’m a college teacher, and my students watch very little tv (though they sometimes binge-watch series, which seems to me to put the lie to the idea of shortened attention spans) and almost no feature films. When they desire longer-form entertainment than TikTok offers, they frequently turn to Twitch.tv, which used to be a gaming media platform but which has now expanded to include many forms: stand-up comedy, movie reviews, scantily clad young people in hot tubs. The content tends to be live and unscripted, and anyone with a webcam can create a Twitch channel. The audience can communicate in real time with the show hosts via text chat and can often influence the course of the show.
I don’t expect that Twitch would be immediately to your taste (it was not to mine, but it has grown on me), as perhaps TikTok was not—but have you sampled it? I’d be interested in your impressions.
The amount of nativity on display by the writer of this blog is MIND-BOGGLING.
She doesn't even realize that 75% of the country doesn't use Tik-Tok on an iPhone.
Which explains why she's frantically deleting all of the comments that show she's ignorant of how this application works and who is operating it and for what purpose.
The amount of nativity on display by the writer of this blog is MIND-BOGGLING.
She doesn't even realize that 75% of the country doesn't use Tik-Tok on an iPhone.
Which explains why she's frantically deleting all of the comments that show she's ignorant of how this application works and who is operating it and for what purpose.
Twitch is an American video live streaming service. It is operated by Twitch Interactive, a subsidiary of Amazon.com.
Nuff said.
Below average me.
No iPhone, TikT, FB, Insta, Twitr, etc
Just 10 million bookmarks
Who are these people?????
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