"'Avatar: The Way of Water' does, and the actors had to learn how to hold their breath for several minutes to shoot some of its undersea sequences. What’s gained from doing it for real?"
The NYT interviewer asks James Cameron in "James Cameron and the Cast of ‘Avatar: The Way of Water’ Hold Their Breath/The original was the biggest hit ever, but the sequel still took a long time to come together. How will it resonate in a different era of moviegoing?"
Cameron answers:
Oh, I don’t know, maybe that it looks good? Come on! You want it to look like the people are underwater, so they need to be underwater. It’s not some gigantic leap — if you were making a western, you’d be out learning how to ride a horse. I knew Sam was a surfer, but Sig and Zoe and the others weren’t particularly ocean-oriented folks. So I was very specific about what would be required, and we got the world’s best breath-hold specialists to talk them through it.
I didn't see the first "Avatar," so I'm not the audience for this, but if I were, knowing the actors were holding their breath for several minutes would take me out of the fantasy. I'd be thinking of the actors not as the characters in their fictional situation but as hard workers suffering... for what? To create the very illusion that my knowledge would ruin.
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Breath-hold specialist would look good on a Linked In resume. I hope that they had SAG representatives on set to ensure that the actors weren’t pressed to hold their breath too long. Maybe they get a breather every hour of acting…..
I'd be thinking of the actors not as the characters in their fictional situation but as hard workers suffering... for what? To create the very illusion that my knowledge would ruin.
So the actors do something hard.
They suffer.
They gain a new skill and become better at something.
They make a movie that will be better than it would have otherwise been.
Now that they have done it they have an accomplishment. They are more than they were before.
They could have sat in a chair while a programmer CGI'd them into water. They could have been comfortable instead.
Life is about struggle and accomplishment. Honor doesn't come from staying inside your comfort zone.
Actors holding their breaths while submerged in a sea of CGI.
Behold the Authenticity Simulation.
I am Laslo
Just pretend to hold your breath.
It's called ACT-ing...
I think there is a big difference between learning to ride a horse and acting submerged in water. Sort of like the difference of making a western with a prop gun and a real gun; why increase the chance that someone might be killed unnecessarily.
Still the underwater scene in "Rocketman" looked really good, and it was interesting how they did it with the child actor being kept quite safe.
Good thing for the actors that 'Avatar: The Way of Water' isn't 'Avatar: The Way of Fire."
I am Laslo.
I'm not holding my breath.
Cameron directed The Abyss (1989), which famously featured several scenes filmed underwater in a giant (55 ft deep) water tank that had been meant for a nuclear reactor. A horribly trying experience reportedly had by all.
To me, it makes the film that much better, knowing how much effort the actors and crew put into it.
"To create the very illusion that my knowledge would ruin."
Does that knowledge ruin this illusion more than other knowledge about other ways movies create illusions? Don't they all depend for the charm of their illusions not just on the suspension of disbelief but on the suspension of knowledge? I'm not saying there can't be distinctions, but I'm not sure how to draw them.
I believe the actors did most of their own scuba diving, in a constructed cave set in Ron Howard's movie about the rescue of the Thailand soccer team from the flooded cave in an excellent movie titled 13 Lives.
It's on Netflix.
"Actors holding their breaths while submerged in a sea of CGI."
Yes, I know there's something screwy here. I've looked at the trailer, and it seems to be essentially animation. Are we just seeing some shots where the woman's hair is all floaty while she's glancing around looking worried or terrified or love-sick or whatever but that's not most of the movie? Do they somehow look like they are *talking* while under water?
Cameron is famous for 'cold water abuse' in Titanic (1997). Kate Winslet felt tortured and said she'd never work with him again...at least in some interview back in the day.
Regarding Avatar -- the first one was an Eco-Save-The-World-Woke-CGI cartoon with an obvious and predictable anti-corporate plot. I didn't bother to watch it for several years after its release, and I missed nothing. But if you are into blue people and eye-popping color cartoons it might be your cup of tea.
I put the new one on my avoid list, as it'll attract the Disney feel-good audience. Lots of kids in the theater probably.
I've enjoyed many Cameron films, but I also passed on Avatar. I guess it's because I'm not into animation for adults.
You mean, like the Creature From The Black Lagoon?
Avatar sucks but Cameron is generally correct.
Aquaman was a technicolor shit-fest.
I take Cameron's point that real stunts look better than CGI, but there are practical considerations. In "Aquaman" and "The Little Mermaid", the characters should look comfortable and natural. Fighting terror or holding your breath doesn't look like water is your natural element.
When watching a movie, I don't think about what the actors went through to make the film.
Whenever I see a movie sequence where someone needs to hold his or her breath, I hold my breath too, to see if I could do it too, or if I would drown. I generally can't think much about the scene itself.
Pass.
I just read an interview with Lupita Nyong'o (in the Hollywood Reporter) about the upcoming Wakanda movie. A lot of it is set underwater, apparently, and she trained of her own volition to hold her breath and move comfortably. It made a difference in her performance, or so they say. I like when actors go Method. They get paid a lot. Let them torture themselves.
Nothing beats Sea Hunt. My grandsons favorite show. The Father of The Dude is single handedly responsible for the decimation of the abalone population of Southern California.
Underwater movies are, generally, bad. Or at least, not good. Example? Thunderball. There's no bigger James Bond fan than I but, man, the movie slows to a crawl when the "action" goes underwater.
I used to watch “Sea Hunt.”
knowing the actors were holding their breath for several minutes would take me out of the fantasy.
CGI takes me out of the fantasy almost every time. Marvel movies look like video games from start to finish.
It's a very bold decision by Cameron, but I doubt the actors will be seen with puffy cheeks and desperate looks on their faces. I think you'd adjust. (If you see it. I didn't see the original, either.)
Blogger Enigma said...
“Cameron is famous for 'cold water abuse' in Titanic (1997). Kate Winslet felt tortured and said she'd never work with him again...at least in some interview back in the day.”
Kate Winslet has a role in Avatar 2. “The details around Kate Winslet's character in the upcoming Avatar 2, directed by James Cameron have been kept tightly under wraps for the longest time. The audience did learn that the Titanic actor was performing some underwater stunts but not much was known about the details of her character.”
I hope it is at least as good as the bar fight in Top Secret!
As I recall, Jacqueline Bissette underwater in “The Deep” was quite good.
It made a very strong impression on me as a teenager, in any event.
Someone online pointed out that "Avatar" is the most successful truly awful movie ever made. And I agree with that sentiment, and I am a huge fan of Cameron's work. "Avatar" is one of the dumbest movies I have ever seen.
Boatbuilder,
I owned a poster of Bissette from that movie where she is in a wet t-shirt, and hid it from my mother (I was 12).
Wimps.
The underwater scenes in Harry Potter 4 were done underwater. Required extra training and work by Daniel to get the scenes done. It was likely worth it for the short amount of time those scenes were needed for the movie. The few shots of real water can set the stage to accept the rest as real.
If the whole movie is underwater, well you save your $ and go with movie magic. My God man, you are not filming a documentary.
the actors had to learn how to hold their breath for several minutes to shoot some of its undersea sequences
When I was in high school, ran cross country, was in great physical shape, if I hyperventilated for a few minutes and then held my breath, while doing absolutely nothing, no activity like swimming, I could hold it at most for two and a half minutes (personal record).
"I used to watch “Sea Hunt.”
As an 8 year old I watched Disney Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan for moral reinforcement but preferred 12 O'clock High for drama. But Loyd Bridges did save America from a nuclear missile. So there it is.
There is a kind of dance where the soaring participants train to give the illusion of ease and weightlessness. Even though the movements are difficult.
The first Avatar was ruined by the political message being hammered into the audience. Twenty years later the wokeness factor has to be many times greater. The authenticity of being underwater won't matter to people who think they're being fed propaganda.
Strong second of Howard's recommendation for "13 Lives". I have a few hundred logged dives, and that film did a great job of showing a confined cave dive. For excellent reasons, I have never put myself in any situation even close to that.
Real, except for the implausibly good visibility (but I suppose filming underwater scenes with 6 inches of vis would make for boring visuals.)
The only thing I can compare it to is "Apollo 13". "13 Lives" does an even better job of maintaining the tension and sense of barely-avoided-panic, among the parents, divers, farmers, and everyone else involved.
5 stars.
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