The columnist takes his side. I don't. He should wear a shirt just because his wife needs it to feel comfortable. And because: Jeffrey Toobin. It only seems like zero until it happens.
July 16, 2022
"[W]hen I’m working at my desk, no videoconferencing app is running, my camera is switched off and the lens cover is in place, I don’t see why..."
"... I can’t work buck naked if I feel like it and the temperature permits.
My wife says that, because we work for the same (very large) company, and thus people who know me know her, at least by association, I owe it to her to follow [the] convention [of wearing a shirt]. She even said that the day I appear shirtless on camera, even by accident, she will quit her job, change her name and file for divorce. I suspect she’s not entirely serious, but I also think I’m willing to live with those odds, because there’s zero chance of what she’s concerned about actually happening."
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38 comments:
She should divorce him anyway. He’s like the guys who play golf shirtless at muni courses: lowlifes.
Sociopaths are always convinced they will never make a mistake.
Whose idiosyncrasy is more dysfunctional? Either his desire to be clothing free or her sense of propriety?
Every couple is a mash up of weirdness. The key to happiness is knowing which person is more committed to their psychosis on each negotiation.
I've worked alone for the past 37 years. For 22 of them I sold capital machinery. Normally 1-2 days a week in office with a lot of my time on the phone with clients. 3-4 days on the road.
I could have worked naked in the office. I didn't. Generally slacks, polo with collar, shoes and socks, daily shave. It made a difference in my performance even if nobody but me knew.
"look sharp, feel sharp, BE sharp" is not just an advertising slogan. It is, or should be, a way of life.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
The Toobin Effect. Impressive. He’s gained (and imposed) Interwebz Immortality.
The Toobin Effect. Impressive. He’s gained (and imposed) Interwebz Immortality.
I logged on to an AA men's zoom meeting without a top, nothing on, not even a t-shirt. Luckily it was still early enough that not many guys had logged on and the lead spotted me and said, Hi Lem, could you put on a shirt please? It had completely slipped my mind.
Q: why does he believe Tech-Overlords are not monitoring?
And because: Jeffrey Toobin.
That's pretty much his endgame, I suspect. Or at least exposing himself to his colleagues.
The columnist takes his side.
Of course, it's Carolyn Hax and she's a moron.
"His wife needs it to feel comfortable."
You're doing it wrong. It should be exactly the opposite. Circumstances should have it that your wife feels more comfortable with you shirtless. Be the man that your wife would feel proud to be seen shirtless accidentally on a zoom call. Elicit desire and jealousy in such a way that if she wanted you to put your shirt back on to hide you from the eyes of other women you would say, 'No. Quit your job, change your name, file for divorce. I'll marry Cindy from accounting.' Be the man who looks good enough without a shirt to call her bluff and threaten her with an upgrade.
It is an established fact that there are hacking tools that enable viewing through computers tied to the internet even when the computer is turned off. I recall there was a scandal from viewing naked or partially clad women this way through TVs tied to the internet that were turned off.
For Kripe's sake! How burdensome is it to wear at least a (clean) t-shirt while working at one's desk, no matter how hot it may be?
Why don't they compromise and let him wear shorts?
Jerry " how was your date?"
Elaine " He took it out"
Yeah, I wouldn't take the risk. The problem isn't the likelihood. It is the severity of the impact. You lose your livelihood and your family, all because you think it is no big deal to be "buck naked" while working.
The advicer and many commenters took his side.
Me? "Grow the hell up and put on a damn shirt! No one wants to see your naked body."
Robert Cook said...
"For Kripe's sake! How burdensome is it to wear at least a (clean) t-shirt while working at one's desk, no matter how hot it may be?"
It's the reason capitalism invented air conditioning. Air conditioning is good.
Jon Henry is not wrong.
At least put down a towel.
Jeffrey Toobin. It only seems like zero until it happens.
You can't convince me that was an accident, any more than this guy's inevitable "accident" will be.
If it was comfort, he'd wear a t-shirt. He wants to be naked without being caught, which means that inevitably he will want to be caught and get away with it.
Even worse, he was wearing shorts.
I agree, though- put the damned shirt on just in case.
Commenter John Henry addresses the concept that supports a dress code, but is rarely explained. How I dress influences how I feel and perform. As a physics teacher, if I wear an Oxford button-down shirt with the sleeves rolled up, I feel more like a burly man of action. If I wear the short-sleeved version of the same shirt, I feel like a nerdling from NASA. I could slip into Michael Douglas from "Falling Down", but that is hardly an improvement.
Jordan Peterson would do a better job explaining it, but the morning routine of taking a shower, shaving and dressing like an adult puts a person in the appropriate frame of mind to get some work done. The husband's casual attire is influencing his wife's ability to work, and she is telling him so.
He should wear a shirt just because his wife needs it to feel comfortable.
But what about his comfort? She shouldn't want him to wear a shirt if he doesn't want to do so. Or does that idea only apply to women and sex?
Your camera lens is only covered until it's not...
How about a compromise...wear a shirt but no pants or underwear?
What does he get out of working naked? Is there some thrill of communicating with people who don't know they're communicating with a naked person? Put on a shirt.
I'm naked as a jaybird right now.
Except for the socks.
Even the illustrative cartoons must have interracial families now.
Turn off your smartie phone. Order Alexandra, Andrea, Sirius to stop spying, please. Send a duplicate request to the FBI, DNC, etc.
I wear clothing in the house* and meetings on line I am dressed including trousers and socks and shoes. My theory is that being actually dressed means camera accidents won't happen.
I am way too absent minded to pull stunts like that.
Wear at home the most casual clothes you would wear to work. If you are on the job, dressing accordingly helps focus your mind on the job. PS: unless it's sexy time, few people past their prime look all that good buck naked. Therefore that guys second job is to get and stay buff enough to be buck naked in the house for when the wife gets home.
“ few people past their prime look all that good buck naked”
I’ve seen a lot of nude models in life drawing classes and a lot of overweight women looked better naked. Clothes can be awkward on a non-slim woman, and she can look voluptuous and natural freed of these impediments. They were interesting to draw.
A man’s body is a different subject.
Ann Althouse said...
“ few people past their prime look all that good buck naked”
I’ve seen a lot of nude models in life drawing classes and a lot of overweight women looked better naked. Clothes can be awkward on a non-slim woman, and she can look voluptuous and natural freed of these impediments. They were interesting to draw.
A man’s body is a different subject."
On men, agreed. Regarding woman there is a difference between fat and zaftig.
Both spouses are wrong. They need to seek counseling.
There must be a good source for mesh t-shirts.
The guy's an exhibitionist. He just hasn't got up the nerve to let the audience in yet.
Entitled idiot. She'll leave him.
1. He's doing something that frustrates and irritates his wife every day. This is not a good way to stay married. He spends a lot of time discounting her reasons for wearing a shirt without understanding that her problem is that he's not wearing a shirt. If your spouse directly tells you that something is a problem, it's a problem. You can fight about it, and often should, but the wrong way to handle it is to solve it in a way that your spouse is unhappy about. Did he ask her if covering the cameras was sufficient? No, he just decided it was. She defined the problem, and the solution must solve it to her satisfaction. There was no compromise here.
I told my ex-wife something was a problem, and she decided it wasn't and told me I was weird and wrong for thinking it was a problem. She only offered to solve it when I filed for divorce, and it was too late. Listen to your spouse, for no other reason than you are married. If the wife in the advice column is saying the word "divorce," even as a joke, she means it.
I'm a long way into my second marriage, and one day my wife was unhappy about dirty dishes in the sink in the morning. I said that I do all the dishes every day, clean dishes are always available when required, so why does it matter when they are washed? Logical, correct, etc. but the real problem was that visible dirty dishes in the kitchen upset her. She's a very rational person and usually I'm the one who gets out-logicked, but she finally said it upset her to look at them.
I did the dishes every night after that.
No one is rational. No one is logical, and "logical" arguments are always self-serving rationalizations of one person's preference.
2. Her ask is trivial: wear a shirt. This is a societal norm, so he's the one being different without asking her.
3. His reason for shirtlessness is not even trivial. It's "because I can." The corollary is "and you can't stop me." Also not a good way to stay married. I'm sure he does a lot of other things to force other people to deal with his bullshit. This is really about refusing to do anything his wife asks, even if it's trivial. Well, try to tell her not to leave. See how that goes.
4. If you are eccentric (I am) and do things that are outside social norms, you need to be really careful not to irritate other people. The smart thing to do is to be agreeable on anything unimportant so you can save your weirdness for what really matters. If your eccentricities are limited to things that piss off other people, you are indistinguishable from a jerk.
Applying the old advice to dress at work for the job you want, not the job you have!
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