"... against the people of Russia, with a bold letter Z crossing out all hopes and prospects for a prosperous free society in our country. Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity. To achieve that they are willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes. Thousands of Russians and Ukrainians have already died just for this. I regret to admit that over all these twenty years the level of lies and unprofessionalism in the work of the Foreign Ministry has been increasing all the time. However, in most recent years, this has become simply catastrophic. Instead of unbiased information, impartial analysis and sober forecasting, there are propaganda clichés in the spirit of Soviet newspapers of the 1930s. A system has been built that deceives itself.... It is all about warmongering, lies and hatred.... I studied to be a diplomat and have been a diplomat for twenty years... But I simply cannot any longer share in this bloody, witless and absolutely needless ignominy."
Writes Boris Bondarev, Russia’s Counsellor to the United Nations in Geneva, quoted in "Exclusive: Senior Russian Diplomat at U.N. Defects" (U.N. Watch).
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53 comments:
As bad as things may get in liberal democracies (and things in the US are pretty bad), things are much worse in Russia. The Russian speaking Ukrainians know that, but many here don't.
Nice to see Russian Diplomat state the fact that Putin is waging war against Ukraine = The Entire Western World
Being posted to Geneva must beat Siberia
Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity.
Maybe, but a lot of people think the same thing about Western elites.
Regime change doesn't always mean greater equality.
Shoot... he's talking about our Western, defenders of Democracy, leaders too. How about that?
Absolute war mongering bullshit. Russia was pushed and pushed and pushed by the US until they said enough.
Typical of our media driven government to try and spin a fairly tale.
Our government has squandered any goodwill we have left
Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity.
Of course, that is not the motivation. This defector is talking stupid.
======
Anyway, I want to recommend a BookTV program that I watched yesterday -- Mary Sarotte talking about her new book, Not One Inch: America, Russia and the Making of Post-Cold War Stalemate.
Her book is essentially about the historical question of whether the USA ever promised to Russia that NATO would not be expanded eastward.
The short answer is "No". What did happen was that in a casual discussion -- tossing around ideas with Soviet diplomats -- US Secretary of State suggested that the USA perhaps might promise not to expand NATO "not one inch". However, no such offer ever was formalized or agreed to.
Furthermore, Russia later did formally agree to the expansion of NATO eastward.
Sarotte says that Gorbachev was a lousy negotiator. He could have driven a harder bargain about NATO's expansion. For example, he could have demanded and obtained a nuclear-free Germany. Sarotte thinks that Gorbachev was too eager to be accepted into the "club" of world leaders and therefore was too agreeable.
Now Putin wants to re-negotiate the issue of NATO's expansion, and so he tells the Russian people that the West made such a promise not to expand NATO -- but that argument of his is not historically true.
So (Sarotte did not say this explicitly), Putin is devastating Ukraine in order to belatedly compel the West to agree to a non-expansion of NATO.
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By the way, Sarotte is a very amusing talker. I laughed out loud many times during her BookTV talk.
So many stories emerging from the war with Ukraine restore my faith in humanity, summoning a not too distant past era in which virtue, courage, fortitude, integrity and self sacrifice were embraced and widely assumed as the basis For a flourishing society.
Always annoyed when class disdain comes through these things. Detracts from it.
"live in pompous tasteless palaces"
All I can think of is would be okay with Putin if only Putin had good taste?
I've read that Russia is thinking of turning Mariupol into a resort town since all the manufacturing is destroyed and 3/4 of the people gone. And I got a picture of Russian elites wanting more beach front property than Crimea has left and thinking that the Azov coast and Mariupol would work for that. Putin has built a huge palace (there is no other word for it) on the Black Sea coast and these elites will be like their leader. How sad really to have a beach house where someone else's home was before you bombed them and sent them fleeing. No dreams?
Putin's palace
https://img.welt.de/img/politik/ausland/mobile224695327/9862507367-ci102l-w1024/Russia-Navalny.jpg
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a0df5b1ee9cfce2737fc7b885464d08e
Yeah, well. At least they didn't have race riots and Prohibition. Right, Roger?
According to Mary Sarotte, President Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Perry advised against expanding NATO eastward. Perry proposed that a buffer organization -- a so-called Partnership of Peace -- be established between NATO and Russia. As part of this deal, the USA and Russia would agree to get rid of all their nuclear weapons.
However, Perry's proposal did not prevail. Part of the problem was that Poland and the Czech Republic insisted on being incorporated into NATO, and those two country's presidents -- Walesa and Havel -- enjoyed much moral authority.
The other problem was that the Republicans won big in the 1994 mid-term elections, and they preferred to expand NATO.
=====
In hindsight, Perry's proposal was quite wise.
Instead of his proposed Partnership of Peace, NATO has expanded eastward and still is armed with nuclear weapons.
Putin was afraid that a nuclear-armed NATO would expand into Ukraine. That fear has motivated his invasion of Ukraine.
I think that for the Russians who have any information about the war, it must be galling to be killing Ukrainians, who are figuratively -- and often literally -- their "cousins".
I'm sure the average Russian thinks there's a lot of folks in the world who "need killin'", but the Ukrainians?! Naaaaahhhhh!
Would that someone higher-up on our side than a Marine lt. colonel was as brave in denouncing our leaders' failures and lies.
This man is a hero. Make no mistake about it the FSB is already plotting his suicide. 5 Oligarchs died by suicide in less than one month at the start of the invasion. The Kremlin will try very hard to kill this man.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/29/europe/russian-oligarchs-suicides-intl/index.html
It's the 1619 project for Russia.
"But I simply cannot any longer share in this bloody, witless and absolutely needless ignominy."
The solution is to 'Stop Talking'
The ambassador is on the right track.
Dead man talking.
'...Boris Bondarev...'
Will get moose and squirrell.
J Scott said...
"Always annoyed when class disdain comes through these things. Detracts from it.
"live in pompous tasteless palaces"
All I can think of is would be okay with Putin if only Putin had good taste?"
One is a dictator that has literally stolen the money he has. The other are people who have created wealth. It is perfectly fine for one of those groups to live in ostentation.
Good for this guy. But now I'm certain Putin has put a price on his head.
"Her book is essentially about the historical question of whether the USA ever promised to Russia that NATO would not be expanded eastward."
Are we taking it as a given that, absent such a promise, expanding NATO eastward is a fine idea?
NATO was designed to "contain" the Soviet Union, which truly was an Evil Empire. The Soviet Union is gone, and I have to ask, why are we enemies with Russia? Notice that the Democrats were fine colluding with Russians when the Russians were Communists. But now they are just a bunch of white Christians who don't worship sexual perversion, the Democrats want to get into a nuclear war with them. I'm thinking the Democrats are who we need to go to war with.
“Absolute war mongering bullshit. Russia was pushed and pushed and pushed by the US until they said enough.
Typical of our media driven government to try and spin a fairly tale.
Our government has squandered any goodwill we have left”.
This. This right here. We’re the fucking warmongers. People gots to get paid man.
Biden wants to be an historical first. Since the first president with dementia is already taken, he's going for the first president to start a war with a nuclear power.
No mansion for you, said no one, ever, who did not already own, or was promised a mansion in fair and equitable trade.
Biden dreams of Slavic and Sino Springs. Russia is not dependent. Ukraine is divided in an eight-year war. China is dependent on external food, and was on external energy sources. America is dependent on labor and environmental arbitrage for a Green deal, pomp, and ceremony.
I'm sure the average Russian thinks there's a lot of folks in the world who "need killin'", but the Ukrainians?! Naaaaahhhhh!
Yes, we observed the marked disparity in acutely empathetic responses to the world Spring series of that era and the Slavic Spring in progress. Why now, why them? Why only half of the population?
Abortin' we will go. Hi ho and merry oh, abortin' we will go.
Absolute war mongering bullshit. Russia was pushed and pushed and pushed by the US until they said enough.
Typical of our media driven government to try and spin a fairly tale.
Geez. Not even trying, troll.
3/10
Gorbachev did not get the promise in writing, true enough, but the promise was spoken, it’s been documented, and the US has been shown to be an untrustworthy liar. Russia did not want to sleep with a knife at her throat, and Joe Biden promised to give the Nazis a knife. The US embassy in Kiev was behind the impeachment, and there has been five years of anti Putin propaganda, propaganda in preparation for this war that NATO has dreamed of. The CIA probably wrote that statement.
NATO’s brutal overthrow of Khaddafy also has colored Russia’s view of the “defensive” alliance. “We came! We saw! He died!” - HRC, who also kicked off the hate fest against Russia.
Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity.
That’s five things.
Well, Joe, if CNN says it, you can bet that the CIA wants you to believe it! If Putin were gone, would Ukraine and NATO be less of a threat to Moscow? Would the map change? Would the Crimea no longer be critical to any defense of Russia? Would the Ukrainian and Russian speakers get along suddenly after eight years of civil war as the Nazis attempted to impose the US backed coup on the east?
It’s not about Putin, he probably would have been deposed had he let NATO just walk into Ukraine.
The Ukrainians are fighting, and for the past three months doing a good job of holding on. It seems they do not want to be rulrd by the new noyars and tsars of Moscow and St. Petersburg. It surprises me that so many find this resistance terrible and that the Ukrainians should be once more under the Russian boot. Seriously, why would anyone wish that another people, millions of people, be under the Russian boot. And I don't think "Hunter Biden" and "Burisma" is a good reason for condemning millions of innocent people to Russian governance
Theres a TVTrope called a "'Reason You Suck' Speech," and Mr. Bondarev's statement was just about the most brutal I've come across.
Dude1394:
"Russia was pushed and pushed and pushed by the US until they said enough."
Something I've noticed about Russia: Whenever they invade their neighbors, which they've done quite a lot over the years, it's always the other guy's fault.
"Our government has squandered any goodwill we have left."
Our government is self-serving, frequently incompetent, and not all that well-meaning; but to paraphrase Joe Louis, lots of things wrong with America, but Putin ain't going to fix them.
Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power forever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian Navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity.
Now do Davos.
Interesting dynamics exhibited by the diplomats and ex-generals of the Russian Federation. Perhaps the greatest sign pointing to Putin's ill health and impending death is the growing number of people who feel the time is right to criticize him.
War? I thought it was a "Special Military Operation"?
Dude1394 said...
Absolute war mongering bullshit. Russia was pushed and pushed and pushed by the US until they said enough.
Typical of our media driven government to try and spin a fairly tale.
Our government has squandered any goodwill we have left
***************
Anti-war....war-mongering?
SNORT
You know more than a Russian diplomat reporting to Putin?
Double SNORT
A Russian diplomat is part of OUR "media-driven government"
I got no more snorts to give!
MAJMike said...
War? I thought it was a "Special Military Operation"?
**********
Exactly like the Korean "Peace Action" of the 1950's.
Dude1394 said...
Absolute war mongering bullshit. Russia was pushed and pushed and pushed by the US until they said enough.
No. This was all on Putin. He fucked this up.
Putin got the Wink and the Nod from Biden on taking Donbas and Luhansk.
Then after looking at Biden and Harris speak he thought he could take the whole thing.
But he overestimated his army. He is a dictator and a rather terrible person and he is going to lose power over this and there is no where for him to go.
I doubt Putin will allow himself to suffer ghaffi's fate. He is 100% the type of person that would nuke everything to avoid that as well.
Mikey NTH: "It surprises me that so many find this resistance terrible and that the Ukrainians should be once more under the Russian boot. Seriously, why would anyone wish that another people, millions of people, be under the Russian boot. And I don't think "Hunter Biden" and "Burisma" is a good reason for condemning millions of innocent people to Russian governance"
I sincerely hope that forest of straw men you have fabricated doesnt catch fire.
Good luck!
Circus.
Joe Smith said...'...Boris Bondarev...' Will get moose and squirrel.
I read that as Boris Badenov at first glance also.
"If Putin were gone, would Ukraine and NATO be less of a threat to Moscow?"
NATO is not a threat to Russia. The idea is absurd.
Blogger Mikey NTH said...
"The Ukrainians are fighting, and for the past three months doing a good job of holding on. It seems they do not want to be ruled by the new boyars and tsars of Moscow and St. Petersburg."
Well, actually, the largely Russian-speaking inhabitants of eastern Ukraine have been fighting for a number of years now, not just months, to avoid being ruled by the western-Ukrainian "democracy" installed by the CIA and a few "Ukrainian" billionaires. But since your tender heart is troubled by the thought of people living under boots, what about the Uighurs? I don't think the Russians are planning on setting up a human organ markets in Ukraine. Shouldn't we be trying to get into a nuclear war with China?
"Putin got the Wink and the Nod from Biden on taking Donbas and Luhansk."
Biden is a cauliflower. Putin knows that. And he is going to set up puppet states in Eastern Ukraine, either before or after the nuclear war you idiots are craving. It's kind of appalling to realize, these will be the first puppet states the world has ever seen. What a terrible precedent!
"Something I've noticed about Russia: Whenever they invade their neighbors, which they've done quite a lot over the years, it's always the other guy's fault."
Just like the US and it's attack dog, NATO.
I don't see how anybody can look at the Ukrainian resistance and think this war has any cause except that Putin's desire to force the Ukraine back into being a part of Russia is colliding with Ukrainian resistance to that imperialism. And then Europe is supporting the Ukraine because after Russia gets the Ukraine it will want Moldava and other little countries, once part of the Soviet Union. And then it'll want the big ones - Poland, East Germany. Everyone sees that and most oppose it. So Europe is opposing Russian attempts to re-establish the Soviet Union by assisting the Ukraine. Whether at one point some American did or did not say something about NATO not expanding is a red herring, shipped all the way from Moscow, having decayed on the way. There more important point is that was no intention to invade Russia whereas Russia, in the person of Putin, did intend to invade all its former republics and get them back to prop up its decay for a little longer. The truth is Putin and / or Russia has to drop the notions of imperial destiny and Putin is finding it hard to come out of his dream. He's bombing civilians as a tactic, (one he learned to use in Syria helping Butcher Assad) and he's sending his own Army guys forward in strategically meaningless attacks into pain and death. Just to think he's like the Czar.
"live in pompous tasteless palaces" >>> that is what they said about Trump
tim in vermont at 5:33 PM
Gorbachev did not get the promise in writing, true enough, but the promise was spoken, it’s been documented, and the US has been shown to be an untrustworthy liar.
No such promise was spoken. It was just a suggestion in a brain-storming discussion.
Watch the video that I recommended.
So we were the big city law firm that didn't feel bound by a promise one of its associates made because it wasn't in writing? More damning perhaps is if we felt obligated to break the promise because it wasn't in writing, or if we felt like we should expand NATO just because we could get away with it, and tried to do something unwise because we felt omnipotent. But it is true that at one point Russia did agree to the earlier expansion, and that none of this really justifies an aggressive war.
Curious about the "defector" talk. Are we really already in Cold War II? Or is it just that we miss Cold War I so much?
@Mike Sylwester
I don't think calling it a suggestion in a brain storming discussion is a fair characterization. Not at all. I think members of the Clinton Administration have a legacy-protecting interest in promoting that idea since the decision to expand NATO rather than pursue the Partnership For Peace was made on their watch and, as you said, it doesn't look like a good decision in hindsight. Bill Clinton recently published an article about this in, I think, The Atlantic, trying to head off criticism.
You seem like the kind of guy who does deep dives into topics that interest him so check this out. There's a lot here.
Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (http://nsarchive.gwu.edu). Dec 12th 2017
The documents show that multiple national leaders were considering and rejecting Central and Eastern European membership in NATO as of early 1990 and through 1991, that discussions of NATO in the context of German unification negotiations in 1990 were not at all narrowly limited to the status of East German territory, and that subsequent Soviet and Russian complaints about being misled about NATO expansion were founded in written contemporaneous memcons and telcons at the highest levels.
What Gorbachev Heard
Tim.
If you've followed Putins career at all he has pined for the old soviet empire. His goal from the beginning has been to recreate the old Soviet Union in the model of Stalin. NATO is just his excuse to act. He saw a weak and bumbling US president. He saw a weak and disinterested Germany. He saw a self serving European Union. And then he acted. NATO didn't provoke him. He believed that Ukraine was weak. He believed Europe would do nothing to stop him. That Europe and the US would just sit by and let him invade.
He was wrong.
I personally think that the massive sanctions against the Russian people were wrong. That just drives more people to Putins side.
Bob Boyd at 7:45 AM
I don't think calling it a suggestion in a brain storming discussion is a fair characterization. .... What Gorbachev Heard
Since you have informed yourself so well about this subject, I am sure that you will enjoy watching the BookTV interview of Mary Sarotte. She seems to be the best expert on that history, and also she is a very amusing talker.
Thanks Mike. I'll check it out.
Bob Boyd at 7:45 AM
What Gorbachev Heard
Thanks for linking me to that very informative article.
Watched the video, Mike. Sarotte is awesome. Learned a lot. Thanks.
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