"Spending time with friends you feel ambivalent about — because they’re unreliable, critical, competitive or any of the many reasons people get under our skin — can be bad for your health.... [O]n average, very close friendships tend to take around 200 hours to develop. Quantity and quality go hand-in-hand. To a tired introvert like me, the effort that requires just sounds exhausting.... [F]inding three to six friends 'isn’t a magic number' for everyone. 'Your personality and the characteristics of your life are going to make a difference'...."
From one of the most-recommended comments:
"I am an older woman, and over the past three years I have slowly cut ties with about three 'friends' because I became really tired of every single conversation, text or email being about their thoughts, feelings, family, pets, health, problems, etc. Most of the time, they never even inquired about any aspects of my life.... One of these 'friends' who I met at work and who I tried to discourage has recently started texting again. In spite of the fact that I know the names and a lot of information about her family members AND pets and always inquire about them using their actual names, she has never asked about my family, and I don't think she is even aware of how many family members I have. This is an extreme case, but others are similar. Many people just want someone to listen to their incessant chatter."
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37 comments:
Weird, could of sworn there was SCOTUS leak post today.
I have learned that if you want something, it's better to ask for it rather than to make the other person guess what you want, and get mad they aren't giving it.
So, if you have a friend that talks about herself all the time and doesn't ask about your life, say something like, "I just really need to tell you about XYZ." or "I need someone to listen to me, and I'm hoping that you have some time to hear me".
You never really know what message you are putting out. I have a person who complains to me that my parents will say, "So, how are you doing?". I mean, it makes her irate. I used to work with a woman who thought it was really nosy to ask her what she did over the weekend. You never know what vibes *you* are putting out, and you never know what the other person has been through that keeps them from asking about you.
So.....tell them what you need or want. At least try that before you cut them out.
Empty chatter is just women. You're just supposed to listen.
From the count of friends, married men should subtract the friends who are actually their wives' friends. So, how many friends do American men have on average?
I am an older woman
I'm guessing she's a biologist.
My philosophy is that old friends who are good friends are "made," like a mafioso, there is almost nothing they can do once they obtain "made" status to end the friendship. Whining or forgetting to ask about my dog are not on the list of things that could end a friendship, once it's solid.
Many people just want someone to listen to their incessant chatter.
Think about how many people use social media to make posts and up their follower counts vs. those who are there to read posts and thoughtfully add to the discussion.
Never fails to crack me up when some news story comes out about some A-lister who threw a party for 300 of her closest friends.
Consider the source. Garabaggio.
I had a friend a bit like that, and had to specifically reduce spending too much time with him, but while he loved to talk about himself and his stories, he was pretty good about asking me about my life, too. Too high maintenance after I got married and started having kids.
Being an American in Slovakia with bad grammar in my usual spoken Slovak, I've had fewer friendly acquaintances become friends than I was used to in CA. Plus my lovely wife is also my best friend. (Advice - marry a good friend.) Was always working in English, but am now retired so don't meet folk at work. This year, as Covid ends, I've taken to inviting some almost friends out for pizza & beer, with the hope that they become friends. Including my nearby living brother-in-law.
I specifically try to find out more about them and their family ... but have trouble remembering most details. I'm not even that interested in my own sisters and their families. I do like ideas and talking and listening to interesting talk.
Tuesday I had pizza for the first time with one such guy with 5 kids, mostly a bit younger than our 4 kids, and we went thru both sets of kids & kid lives. My second son, still at home as he studies for his PhD (in nuclear engineering) ate the leftover pizza I was interested in.
Don't quite hang out here for on-line friendships as much as at https://www.thenewneo.com/2022/05/10/rip-midge-decter/
who just had an alternate view of Midge and some interesting comments about another Midge in the Jimmy Carter admin who one guy had wrongly remembered as Midge Decter.
A different yet similar vibe there.
I'm spending a lot more time on intellectuals' blogs, and more of them are going to substack - where great writers can make thousands per month by having subscribers pay. Two recent converts are recommending substack, and I think both Ann, but especially Neo (deeper analysis) should look into that platform:
https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/why-you-should-be-on-substack?s=r
https://betonit.substack.com/p/who-should-switch-to-substack?s=r
Here's a new good substack blog.
https://infovores.substack.com/p/irrational-institutions-3?s=w << the non-even distribution of our current "Golden Age".
Advice from a friendly acquaintance/ fan of Ann.
;)
"But enough about me, let's talk about you. What do you think of me?"
For those who love to commit to writing the chatter going on in their head, we have comment sections of weblogs. Our new digital friends.
Always admired my brother but more so, at his 50th birthday party, not only did every guest attend, but every friend that he ever had, including friends from elementary school! I asked him about it later, he said that he carved out times of year where he made sure to get together with certain friends: summer, time to spend time on the lake with one friend, autumn, a get-together with a friend over a fire for a cook-out, etc. Very cool.
Always admired my brother but more so, at his 50th birthday party, not only did every guest attend, but every friend that he ever had, including friends from elementary school! I asked him about it later, he said that he carved out times of year where he made sure to get together with certain friends: summer, time to spend time on the lake with one friend, autumn, a get-together with a friend over a fire for a cook-out, etc. Very cool.
Always admired my brother but more so, at his 50th birthday party, not only did every guest attend, but every friend that he ever had, including friends from elementary school! I asked him about it later, he said that he carved out times of year where he made sure to get together with certain friends: summer, time to spend time on the lake with one friend, autumn, a get-together with a friend over a fire for a cook-out, etc. Very cool.
"What science says"? They printed it like that? Without capitalizing Science? Isn't that blasphemy? Or lese majeste?
Be judicious, like Judas.
I find it more difficult to make and maintain friendships as I get older and especially during COVID because my friendships are built around activities. I don’t call people just to talk, I call them to do stuff. So if I’m bogged down by family, or everything’s closed due to lockdowns, friendships suffer. Making new friends is nearly impossible.
"I have slowly cut ties with about three 'friends' because I became really tired of...[blah blah]..."
It seems like most level-headed adults tend to ditch deadweight acquaintances -- toxic or otherwise -- by the time they hit their 30's.
The NYT is just figuring this out?
I am a newly retired man who, until recently, mostly had old friends and work friends. I grew up with my old friends, and we are all practically family. Like family, we don't all have common interests or even like each other that much, but it is comforting. I enjoy my work friends, but we don't necessarily share interests or would be friends if we didn't work together. By changing jobs, a work friend may stay in touch to become an actual friend who may eventually drift away. When I retired, I wasn't sure how that would work out.
I have a variety of hobbies and interests, but none that I'm fanatic about. I don't bond over a love of model trains for instance. Recently, work friends interested in being actual friends, have invited me to participate in whatever recurring activity brings their old friends together. That's happened a few times, and I like it. Being retired, I can commit to a once per month Movie Night or annual ski trip. Their friends are nice enough people, and not much is required of me.
I don't think the NYT article or scientific research has much useful to say about friendship.
Some people have more friends and others have less. Some people keep some friend ties for decades and others do not.
And once more the New York media has descended into the depths of middle school to report on something.
One of the gifts that come with 30+ years in a 12 step program is the ability to lay aside my life and really listen to the lives of others. Yes, if over time it continues one-sided then I'll scale back my time with them.
You'd be surprised how many people want someone to listen just once in a while.
1. I second the advice about marrying a really good friend.
2. Because of moves at challenging times, we've had to start over on friend-making five times. Three of those times have resulted in new but now lifelong friends worth doing the work for; the other two have resulted in strong and friendly acquaintances who could become friends if the situation allowed. We've learned to keep our options open.
3. I'm bad at asking about people. I'm very happy to listen to others talk about their lives, but for some reason I have to remind myself to ask if they don't offer the info themselves. And I'm also, for some reason, bad at remembering small details about their lives (this despite having quite a good memory for true trivia), though I have a number of friends (including, usefully, my husband) who seem to do this effortlessly. I'm trying to foster this skill!
So... how is everybody? Any summer plans?
Why didn't she tell these women about her life? Many people are raised in a conversational style where asking lots of personal questions is rude; it is expected that people will share what they want.
"My philosophy is that old friends who are good friends are "made," like a mafioso, there is almost nothing they can do once they obtain "made" status to end the friendship. Whining or forgetting to ask about my dog are not on the list of things that could end a friendship, once it's solid."
This. Once you're in, outside of a major betrayal, you're in for life.
Meanwhile the three women are commenting, "I try to be open and share my life with my friend, but she incessantly questions me about my family and tells me nothing about herself!"
My college friend Bill is coming to teach in Bonn, Germany about July 15 - which I learned when I invited him to see Marky Ramone's Blitzkrieg which is play in Bratislava, Slovakia, on July 12. Dates don't match.
Bill introduced me to the Ramones, and like me, had thought all the Ramones were already dead.
My family visited Bill 3 years ago when we spent 2 months in America (~10,000 miles of driving).
Jamie, we'll probably never have pizza together; glad you've married a good friend.
1. Heh. The NYT wrote: "Here's what the science says..." Heh.
2. My experience says close friends like to play poker.
Might be true LordSomber. Took me a bit longer to learn that lesson. I’ve a few friends from grade school and high school and we converse from time to time, but I really don’t have an everyday friend other than my husband. That is ok. I’m a travel light kinda guy, so I don’t want lots to maintain. One plant is about it.
Friends are the ones that accept you despite you flaws, and vice a versa.
That's kinda like marriage. There are deep underlying thread/s. But accepting the flaws is the glue that holds it all together
My husband &I agreed way back when that we wouldn’t get too close to other couples. So many people (his age)(8yrs younger than me)all hang out and party- even as they age. We’ve seen to much (hanky panky?) to get sucked into that scenario! Our lifestyle of early mornings, later evenings and having to shower 5x/day to get the smell of cow(shit) out of our hair is tedious.
Our family is our best friend. Sundays, congregating at my Mom’s after Mass for coffee and a meal- every holiday here b/c of our open floor plan… I guess our life is boring. It sure tuckers us out, though!
We do have a lovely Summer routine. We bought our herd almost 24 yrs ago and that couple moved, built and also created the loveliest pond. It sets in a natural hollow in a meadow, secluded by the roll of the land- they have a camper set up, electricity- a wood pellet grill and a fire pit. BBQ and s’mores- some casual beer drinking and the marshmallows and stars. We go after night chores, they feed us- I bring dessert. Sometimes their friends or family show up. And… the excavator swings us-on a rope tied to its shovel- into the pond. W/diesel so expensive it might be a foregone pleasure.
I have good friends- maybe 3from school yrs & one from college. And my good Nyack friend. 22yrs older:0) She’s a ticket, but she’s been a rock.
"Why didn't she tell these women about her life? Many people are raised in a conversational style where asking lots of personal questions is rude; it is expected that people will share what they want."
Yes, and it seems passive aggressive to keep waiting for someone to ask you about yourself and, if they don't, to judge them harshly. She ought to at least try to respond with her own stories somewhere in the conversation and then judge them if they don't show interest. But maybe she's not interested in all the personal information. It's totally legit to think that kind of talk is tedious. But don't hang around allowing the other person to bore you. That does no one any good. Some people don't know how to start, and some people don't know when to stop. Put them together and it's dysfunctional.
@farmgirl
Sounds lovely. And I'd say if you have 5 true friends you have a lot of friends.
Social distancing at 2 m, which should have been 3m according to Chinese scientists in Wuhan.
Having a friend with an excavator seems....useful.
The fox in "The Little Prince" is made a friend by familiarity and repetitious mutual activity. And he knows that upon parting from his new friend he will be sad, and accepts that as the price of having made a friend.
"But I have made him my friend, and now he is unique in all the world."
https://books-library.net/files/books-library.online-12201041Ti6B3.pdf
In my youth I made a gift, after arduous search and for me at the time great expense, of a first US edition of The Little Prince to a young woman. I was greatly enamored of her, and I thought she loved me. "Oh, a book," she said, "a used book." Our relationship went downhill rapidly from there. I do not regret losing her friendship at all.
It was a good exchange, mikee.
You learned a valuable lesson!!
You were 2good 4her…
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