Althouse: "Supporters of debt forgiveness argue that targeted relief is inadequate and that broader relief would help to close the [racial wealth] gap."

May 15, 2022

"Supporters of debt forgiveness argue that targeted relief is inadequate and that broader relief would help to close the [racial wealth] gap."

"Black college graduates, on average, owe $25,000 more than their white peers. More than half of Black borrowers report that their net worth is less than the balance of their student loans. And Black borrowers are more likely than their white peers to drop out of school before receiving a degree. But across-the-board debt forgiveness will not help. As a recent report from the Brookings Institution concluded, only targeted policies based on race or socioeconomic status 'can address the inequities caused by federal student lending programs.'"

Writes the NYT Editorial Board in "Student Debt Is Crushing. Canceling It for Everyone Is Still a Bad Idea."

80 comments:

Wince said...: Reparations in this case would imply the colleges and universities disgorging their ill gotten gains, not the taxpayer.; 5/15/22, 5:35 PM
Duke Dan said...: Until they stop giving new federal student loans I’m not willing to even discuss this. And even after my answer will be to say they need to listen to Dave Ramsey and learn how to solve their own problem.; 5/15/22, 5:43 PM
gilbar said...: how about, we only target it towards people that Worked for it? You know.. People that graduated?; 5/15/22, 5:43 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Cancelling it AT ALL is a bad Idea.; 5/15/22, 5:46 PM
Jupiter said...: So when the colleges and universities put their thumbs on the scale to make it easier for blacks to get in, they are not doing them any favors. Blacks are just easier to rip off, and the departments that fleece them are cheap to operate.; 5/15/22, 5:51 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: More than half of Black borrowers report that their net worth is less than the balance of their student loans.

Question: Does this sentence show the writer's ignorance, or the writer's effort to exploit their reader's ignorance.

(Net worth already accounts for debts, so the comparison is useless. Treating it as relevant essentially double-counts the debt.); 5/15/22, 5:53 PM
wendybar said...: It will only divide us more. WHY should I pay off somebody's loan when THEY signed for it, when I worked 3 jobs to pay off my own?? Where is MY relief??; 5/15/22, 5:54 PM
David Begley said...: That’s unconstitutional.

WTF is wrong with these people?; 5/15/22, 5:55 PM
Achilles said...: They should seize the endowments of all the colleges and the retirement accounts of all college administrators and professors in the country and pay these college loans off.; 5/15/22, 5:56 PM
Saint Croix said...: You know, we have a system in place for crippling debt. It's called bankruptcy.

They should open up the bankruptcy courts for student loans. Any other person with crippling debt can declare bankruptcy. Change the laws, go back to the way it was in 1976.; 5/15/22, 5:58 PM
retail lawyer said...: Of course. Equity!

By the way, debts are never cancelled or forgiven. They are transferred to taxpayers in this case. How about transferring the debts to the institution that consumed the money in the first place?; 5/15/22, 6:11 PM
rhhardin said...: Not to mention the crushing tax consequences on poor blacks who have their loans forgiven, which counts as income in the year it's forgiven.; 5/15/22, 6:14 PM
Enlighten-NewJersey said...: Rather than taxpayers, require schools to use their vast endowments to pay off the student debt.; 5/15/22, 6:19 PM
The Vault Dweller said...: I'm generally against debt forgiveness for student loans. But I do have sympathy for the young adults who took out a lot of debt to go to college or university. Probably since they were children almost everyone around them told them that the smartest decision they could make would be to go to college, even if they had to take out loans. 18-23 years old generally aren't blessed with much wisdom, to see the risk. To the extent that there is any debt forgiveness I will only be on board if they the institutions the debtors went to are financially responsible for at least half the debt forgiven.; 5/15/22, 6:21 PM
John henry said...: I worked more than full time all the way through ba, MBA and ms degrees.

My employer paid some of my expenses through MBA.

I paid full freight for my ms. Particularly galling because I'd been adjuncting for the school continuously for 20 years y then. I thought I deserved a discount. Not a nickle.

I paid full freight out of pocket for 5 years for my daughter and 8 years for son.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for student loan forgiveness.

What I would be willing to see is some way to work it off. Teaching, doctoring, engineering, agonomosting, or some other work in undeserved communities. Say 20% forgiveness for every year they stay or something like that. Regular pay while doing it.

Could be overseas like peace corps.

Of course that only works when the students actually learned something useful.

John LGKTQ Henry; 5/15/22, 6:27 PM
John henry said...: I sort of knew this of old but had occasion to look it up last week.

Over 50% of us employers have tuition assistance programs. Most of those pay full tuition.

Textbooks are another scam but even if they are $500/semester, anyone working should be able to come up with the ready.

My daughters ms was fully paid for by GSK as an employee. I think they even paid books. All permanent employees were eligible for the same program.

John LGKTQ Henry; 5/15/22, 6:35 PM
John henry said...: I'd be OK with Achilles idea of seizing endowments.

I'd also probably be OK with allowing students to sue schools for fraud.

Maybe hs guidance counselors as well as their high schools

John LGKTQ Henry; 5/15/22, 6:38 PM
Paul said...: "And Black borrowers are more likely than their white peers to drop out of school before receiving a degree. "

I.E. they didn't study... got lazy... didn't care... and so they want those that didn't drop out to pay for their laziness. Geeze...; 5/15/22, 6:38 PM
JK Brown said...: "Student debt is crushing" is a direct admission that going to college has low economic returns. This is contrary to the disinformation that universities, professors (who garner high wages from the debt), and the chattering class, whose who self value is anchored in their college credential.

A $300K planter has the ability to generate economic returns to the farmer, so we don't forgive the planter loan debt. But we are to forgive loans given to kids to purchase college credentials that are statistically not worth the paper they are printed on, at least for those needing debt forgiveness.; 5/15/22, 6:42 PM
Richard said...: Student loans are a scam by the universities. They encourage students to take out loans and then they pocket the money. They know that most students will not be able to repay the loans either because they will not graduate or will get a degree in some studies field that will not provide them with a high enough salary to pay off the loan.; 5/15/22, 6:49 PM
Robert Marshall said...: 1. Existing student debt: give debtors option to bankrupt, but with some sort of extra tax on future earnings in excess of average earnings of non-college graduates of their age, for life or until tax = amount of debt discharged in bankruptcy.

2. Reform on-going program:
(a) Schools should have "skin" in the game, probably at least 25%; if students don't pay back, tap the endowment.

(b) Full disclosure up front by schools: Here's what our degrees are worth in income per year exceeding non-college graduate average. Here's how long it will take you to pay back your debt, based on successfully completing these courses of study. Lack of honesty in these disclosures should up the school's "skin" from 25% to 75%.

(c) Reduce level of coverage of loans/grants/etc, to some point which makes students get a job. Give the students some "skin" in the degree game, too. What you work for is what is valuable to you. Weed out the slackers.; 5/15/22, 6:49 PM
iowan2 said...: Google sheets is free. It has an amortization schedule, template.

If you got into collage and had no idea what you needed to do, to service debt. I have zero fucks to give.

Why a college would accept a person that cant set up a simple template.... the stupid is beyond my comprehension.; 5/15/22, 6:50 PM
Readering said...: What Saint Croix said.; 5/15/22, 6:52 PM
realestateacct said...: If the debt were dischargeable in bankruptcy then all the people whose net worth is less than their assets and who don't have sufficient income would be able to get relief. I'd bet you could get bipartisan majorities for doing that if you were interested.; 5/15/22, 6:53 PM
Carrie Ann said...: It sounds like those people who say their college debt is higher than their net wealth are valuing their education (intangible asset, but still an asset) at $0. Hmmmm. Let me ponder that for a nanosecond.; 5/15/22, 7:01 PM
Achilles said...: If they do this I want to be paid back for all of the loans I paid off.; 5/15/22, 7:12 PM
ussmidway said...: Obama moved the student loan program from the banking sector to the Federal balance sheet, in part to loosen the criteria for approving loans, but mostly to create a future political opportunity to forgive these debts. It is like a one-time chess move they have been saving for a time when the party of Massive Government needed a boost to offset otherwise weak support -- in this case from young people who have tuned out the Biden disaster-of-the-week administration.

This needs to be seen for what it is: a long-planned payoff to reverse their dismal polling collapse with those under 35. I am sure it will help with some of them -- especially those who borrowed a lot to study something useless (ethnic studies) or who never got a degree -- but those students who paid off their loans, or never took them at all, will see this as totally unfair and the net impact may be a wash.; 5/15/22, 7:22 PM
madAsHell said...: Looking back in time, the undergraduate degrees in social sciences were meant for women. They needed something to do while they worked on their MRS degree. MRS.....you know.....the Masters in Recreational Sex that culminates in a wedding ring.

Unfortunately, the social science degrees cost the same as a STEM degree, but the paycheck will never match a STEM paycheck.; 5/15/22, 7:22 PM
Eleanor said...: We should be looking deeply into why fewer black students graduate than white ones do. Do affirmative action acceptances create too big a mismatch? Do black students tend to choose majors that fall short of their expectations so they cut their losses and drop out? Do they have other obligations that take them away from school? Are they socially uncomfortable in the places they choose to go to college? If they're borrowing more money that white kids do and getting less bang for their bucks, then paying off this generation's school loans without figuring out how it got this way will just lead to lather, rinse, repeat.; 5/15/22, 7:31 PM
Carol said...: "0They should open up the bankruptcy courts for student loans'

Absolutely! Boy that would straighten out matters right quick.; 5/15/22, 7:32 PM
n.n said...: Redistributive change (e.g. progressive prices) is a bad idea. Let the public, private, and charitable institutions eat the debt, or leave it to the students, many of whom incurred it under false pretenses of performance.

That said, what does Diversity, Inequity, and Exclusion (DIE), other than affirmative discrimination (e.g. people of yellow, people of white, people of male sex and masculine gender, etc.), have to do with it?; 5/15/22, 7:37 PM
Steven said...: So, if student loans are so horribly racist, why aren't we outlawing them? Eliminate the federal student loan programs, make it a felony to offer private student loans, and make it a felony to borrow money for college. It won't utterly solve the problem, but it'll reduce it hugely.; 5/15/22, 7:42 PM
David Begley said...: Saint Croix is absolutely correct. Joe Biden stopped the ability of debtors to discharge student loans.; 5/15/22, 7:45 PM
Mike of Snoqualmie said...: They should seize the endowments of all the colleges and the retirement accounts of all college administrators and professors in the country and pay these college loans off.

You know, we have a system in place for crippling debt. It's called bankruptcy.

They should open up the bankruptcy courts for student loans. Any other person with crippling debt can declare bankruptcy. Change the laws, go back to the way it was in 1976.

Both good ideas. But, make the colleges and universities responsible for paying off the tax payer for that bankruptcy relief. Why should any of us pay a single dime in taxes to payoff a loan the student took out for a degree in underwater basket weaving studies? The C/Us let the students study for a worthless degree, so they should pay the tab.

Future loans should be made by commercial banks and loan brokers with the C/Us fronting the principal of the loan. The students should have to pay interest during their studies, just like a house construction loan. (That's what were paying while our house is being built.)

Part of the tuition funds should be money personally earned by the student, not just all loans. Summer work instead of partying could fill up the coffers. The students need to have a personal commitment to study instead going to a party school.

And, AOC could pay off her $17,000 by selling her Tesla.; 5/15/22, 7:48 PM
Bart Hall said...: If your college degree (or not) isn't valuable or useful enough to repay your student debt, it certainly is not worth enough to society for ME to pay your debt.

It is what we in business call a non-self-liquidating loan which never generates the income needed to cover its repayment. Compared, say, to the Apprentice Carpenter who borrows money for the tools of his trade. Non-self-liquidating loans are the equivalent of borrowing big for a wedding, a honeymoon, or a vacation cruise.

And here's the dirty secret -- If you're in debt at all, then every dollar you spend is a BORROWED dollar, because it could have gone to debt-repayment instead. Or as it says in the Bible, "The borrower is the slave of the lender."; 5/15/22, 7:50 PM
tim maguire said...: Student debt is high because college is expensive. College is expensive because student financial aid is freely available. Cancelling student debt is kicking the can down the road. It will do nothing to resolve the systemic problem.; 5/15/22, 7:52 PM
Robert Marshall said...: PS - Brookings says "only targeted policies based on race or socioeconomic status 'can address the inequities caused by federal student lending programs.'"

What's the "inequity" caused by the feds lending people money to get an education?

Is it that the education was not worth what was paid? That's a problem caused by the school, not the Govt. Yes, it's stupid for the Govt to lend money for crappy education, but it's not unfair, it's just stupid. No one holds a gun to the borrower's head and makes him/her sign the note.

Enough whining! Shut up and pay your debts. Don't foist them off on people who haven't had the privilege to go to college.; 5/15/22, 8:07 PM
Northstar said...: Maybe the federal government should pay off its own debt first. Twenty Trillion and counting.; 5/15/22, 8:11 PM
Aggie said...: What ussmidway said at 7:22 pm

'You mean you borrowed money for a college education and a degree in a subject that is so worthless, you can't make enough money to pay back the loans? And consequently, you want all the rest of us to pay it back instead? Didn't learn much at college, did you?

Revert all student loans to the public sector.; 5/15/22, 9:08 PM
BoatSchool said...: Open up the data base of student indebtedness by race, by major, by undergraduate or graduate curriculum, by years of loans, by public/private, by employment after graduation, etc.

Crowd source the analysis and the old 80/20 Pareto rule will come into play.

Genuine hardship (e.g. had to leave w/o graduating because bread-winner parent died) make individual case for relief.

General forgiveness in the name of equity is vote-buying w/ taxpayer money pure and simple.; 5/15/22, 9:23 PM
MayBee said...: Eleanor said...
We should be looking deeply into why fewer black students graduate than white ones do. Do affirmative action acceptances create too big a mismatch? Do black students tend to choose majors that fall short of their expectations so they cut their losses and drop out? Do they have other obligations that take them away from school? Are they socially uncomfortable in the places they choose to go to college? If they're borrowing more money that white kids do and getting less bang for their bucks, then paying off this generation's school loans without figuring out how it got this way will just lead to lather, rinse, repeat.

Yes, yes, yes.; 5/15/22, 9:25 PM
Breezy said...: The party always saying people need to pay their fair share sure seems to be missing the mark here. Taxpayers have no obligation to these student debts. The debt contract is between the college and the student. It needs to be resolved there. Imagine if taxpayers did fund this forgiveness - tuition then goes up since colleges have no proven risk to lending, taxpayers relieve even more debt in five years. No, just no. It’s a very bad deal, and immoral as well.; 5/15/22, 9:36 PM
The Godfather said...: If "targeted policies [for student loan forgiveness] based on race or socioeconomic status" are adopted -- that is, your student loan will be forgiven if you're Black, but if you're White you have to pay up -- then will everyone shut up about "white privilege"?

I didn't think so.; 5/15/22, 9:43 PM
Josephbleau said...: Clearly, we can’t pay off everyone’s student debt without fundamentally changing the flawed system. Otherwise The day after the payoff, I would borrow the max and fool around living as a “student” and partying on the cash I borrowed above base tuition. So first, don’t allow student loans for grad school. If you are good enough to be accepted to grad school or professional school, the school itself should fund you or give you private school loans, almost all PhD’s are funded by being TA’s or research assistants. All the government should try to provide is a ba.

Next, for your bachelor's, if you don’t get a 2.5 for two semesters, you don’t get anymore loans. Next for BA, you get your loan money sent direct to the bursar, the book store, and to the dorm director, you have to live in the dorm and take a meal plan and you never get any cash. Since you are not paying the large bills you can get your own small change by a small job.

People not graduating after taking loans for six years is an embarrassment, aren’t they flunking out before then? It can’t be community college because that is basically free or 300 bucks max. Are they giving people 4 years of loans including living expenses for a 2 year AA degree program?

I would also say that to get a loan you should have to go to an in state public school, but that would never be allowed.; 5/15/22, 9:44 PM
Richard Aubrey said...: And if you paid your way....you may be in debt for other things you couldn't pay cash for. So you still have college debt.; 5/15/22, 9:44 PM
Rusty said...: BUMBLE BEE said...
"Cancelling it AT ALL is a bad Idea."
Because it then turns into a tax on the middle class.; 5/15/22, 9:57 PM
The Godfather said...: BTW, when I lived in DC there was an ad that the University of the District of Columbia ran that said "A college degree is a license to make money". If student debt was incurred at UDC or any other college that ran "a college degree is a license to make money" ad before the student was enrolled, then any debt forgiven should be charged against the endowment of the college, or made a lien against its assets.; 5/15/22, 10:01 PM
Mason G said...: Cancelling student loan debt shouldn't happen. But when it does, it should also include voiding any degree earned. After all, if the degree isn't helping the loan taker to repay the loan, it's not worth anything. Right?; 5/15/22, 10:14 PM
walter said...: Because we are running such a massive surplus with low inflation...; 5/15/22, 10:23 PM
Joe Smith said...: These big schools have billions of dollars in endowments that are tax free!!

Let them make the loans themselves and be on the hook for non-payment or forgiveness if they'd like.

Blue collar workers should not be subsidizing whiny upper-middle-class kids who get into debt in order to study 16th-century left-handed lesbian albino poetry.

Fuck that noise...; 5/15/22, 10:39 PM
Joe Smith said...: 'Student debt is high because college is expensive. College is expensive because student financial aid is freely available.'

Exactly.

Once colleges knew that the government would give loans to any idiot that asks, they jacked up their rates.

Most of the new money goes to pay for diversity councilors and trans-studies departments anyway.; 5/15/22, 10:42 PM
glacial erratic said...: What I find interesting is that the author doesn't even bother attempting to show how "racism" is responsible for the greater black debt. It exists,and that is enough to justify a flagrantly racist and unconstitutional relief program targeted exclusively to blacks.; 5/15/22, 11:32 PM
Mutaman said...: Achilles said...

"They should seize the endowments of all the colleges and the retirement accounts of all college administrators and professors in the country and pay these college loans off."

Including Ann? Poor Mead would actually have to go out and get a job.; 5/15/22, 11:41 PM
Mutaman said...: Blogger Achilles said...
"If they do this I want to be paid back for all of the loans I paid off."

For 1/2 of a semester at Trump University?; 5/15/22, 11:45 PM
Mutaman said...: "What I would be willing to see is some way to work it off. Teaching, doctoring, engineering, agonomosting, or some other work in undeserved communities. Say 20% forgiveness for every year they stay or something like that. Regular pay while doing it.

Could be overseas like peace corps."

Such a simple commonsense idea that no one would ever support it.; 5/15/22, 11:49 PM
Mr. T. said...: Pay off the debt with faculty and administration pensions. That's what caused "crushing" student debt in the first place.; 5/15/22, 11:51 PM
Gahrie said...: If you were deliberately trying to stir up racial animosity...what would you do differently?; 5/16/22, 12:23 AM
Dude1394 said...: So they loaded up on free money while playing at school. Used it to pay rent, have a party and now they can't get a job so they want uncle sugar and all of the hicks in west virginia and the deep south to pay their bar tab.

No thanks.

Where is my rebate?; 5/16/22, 1:01 AM
Rt41Rebel said...: This is the same scam as the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008. The only difference is who gets bailed out, the borrower or the lender. Our govt does so many great things to us.; 5/16/22, 1:36 AM
Nicholas said...: "And Black borrowers are more likely than their white peers to drop out of school before receiving a degree."

They are trying to make it sound as if there is a causal link between being black and borrowing and dropping out - "Sorry professor, I didn't turn up for the exam because the bank made me skip it." Absurd.

I understand Harvard has an endowment of over $50bn. Surely "equity" demands that it be redistributed?; 5/16/22, 2:53 AM
gadfly said...: The burden of student loan debt is “crushing” and has caused “lasting, generational damage on the lives of millions of Americans.”

Wrong. The stupidity of granting student loans in the first place to those not-so-brilliant youngsters who don't even know that loans must be repaid and the sheer governmental stupidity of not requiring their irresponsible parents to qualify as co-signers is absolutely pathetic.

Last time I checked, Uncle Sam continues to puff up real government giveaways in various forms for the poor and disadvantaged - just not in $100 thousand gulps.; 5/16/22, 4:21 AM
wendybar said...: Gahrie said...
If you were deliberately trying to stir up racial animosity...what would you do differently?

5/16/22, 12:23 AM

THIS!!^^^^^^^^^^^; 5/16/22, 5:44 AM
iowan2 said...: irresponsible parents to qualify as co-signers is absolutely pathetic.

Parents?. Are there minors in College? Democrats think 16 year olds are mature enough to vote. Now your telling me 18 year olds are not mentally developed enough to enter into contracts. Evidence suggests 13 years public schools are so worthless, the time value of money is a concept the Geniuses of education cant figure out how to teach it.; 5/16/22, 6:19 AM
guitar joe said...: Student loan forgiveness is such a bad idea that even a lot of libs like me don't support it. When my kids were seniours in high school, I brought them to the computer and showed them an amortization table illustrating what 20k, 40k, and 60k in debt would lool like in monthly payments, total interest paid, and so on. Both of them have kept their debt within reason, both worked while in school. Schools are responsible for this debt and should fund any loan forgiveness.

Conditions are so much different from what they were when I got out of college more than 40 years ago. My friends and I got entry level management jobs within a year of graduation, regardless of the kinds of degrees we had. Doesn't happen today, so the value of a degree now is significantly reduced.

At some point, the Dept of Education removed the limits for graduate school, and that's where the biggest loan balances have occurred. What a stupid decision on their part. Bring back annual limits on grad school and watch the cost drop.

One thing to keep in mind when reading articles about student loan debt: If a kid is only a couple of years out of school and has, say, 65K in debt, a significant portion of that is private debt. The limit on undergrad loans is still about 25K. Independent students can borrow up to about 45, but most undergrad students are still dependants and borrow the lower amount.

So, if you have 65 grand or more in undergrad loans and a recent grad, a significant portion of your debt is private and won't be forgiven.; 5/16/22, 6:59 AM
Kai Akker said...: Last I looked, student loans made up half the balance-sheet assets of the U.S. government.

Guess that makes it easier to throw them all out. But that old Hemingway character's explanation of how his bankruptcy happened -- slowly, then fast -- keeps lurking in the mental background on this.; 5/16/22, 7:21 AM
veni vidi vici said...: They want reparations, so no amount of targeted debt forgiveness is going to quell that flame. It'll only be seen as a separate entitlement. This is foolishness disguised as erudition; something at which the NYT board excels.; 5/16/22, 7:49 AM
Leland said...: Inflation is already rampant because the Biden Administration over stimulated the economy with billions of dollars to not work with a supply chain that wasn’t moving. Throwing more money into the economy by way of forgiving student loans will just increase inflation higher and faster. If you live with a low or fixed income, this would be devastating. Meanwhile, your local university is likely sitting on an endowment while your local and federal government keeps running up debt.; 5/16/22, 7:58 AM
The Tangerine Tornado said...: I'm at my son's University wide Commencement on Saturday and lo and behold the keynote speaker is Sen. Chuck Schumer. He couldn't get through his prepared remarks without mentioning the Democrats push for $50,000 of student loan forgiveness for everyone! Yay! There were cheers from the assembled crowd who evidently had never taken Econ 101, or more likely had taken it and learned nothing.

This idea has so many perverse incentives it boggles the mind. Bankruptcy seems a much more sound practice, which must explain why no one in Congress is talking about it.; 5/16/22, 8:03 AM
Doug said...: As they say in this part of the country," Have you lost your EVERLOVIN' MIND"?; 5/16/22, 8:31 AM
TreeJoe said...: For the sake of argument, let's establish a few fact patterns:

1. Kids have been encouraged to go to college as a significant advantage in succeeding monetarily for many, many decades.

2. Colleges/Universities (I'll use them synonymously here) received heavily subsidized, no-collateral funding through a host of student loan programs.

3. Colleges/universities essentially - and sometimes literally - falsified post-graduation income and job rates in order to promote their programs and justify their expenses.

4. Colleges/universities heavily facilitated and promoted student loans for their students without adequate protections in place to push away students whose student loans could become a major issue later in life. In essence, colleges had no downside to promoting as many student loans at the greatest possible value among some of the most naive of our population (Brand new adults)

....

If you look at this fact pattern, I am unclear why the onus on debt forgiveness falls on the general public. Here's a few random ideas:

1. Waive all student loan interest in exchange for an automatic 5% wage garnishment until the principle is paid off.

2. Require all colleges with student loan debt accrued to them to pay out of their endowments 10% of the endowment or 50% of the student loan debt, whichever is greater, on an ongoing basis.

3. Wind down all federal student loan programs while the burden of historical student loans are being paid down by society. End such loans in 5-10 years.

..........

I could go on.; 5/16/22, 8:49 AM
GRW3 said...: How many of these minorities with heavy debt were promoted to more expensive, exclusive schools to satisfy racial balance quotas and got shuffled into one of those "X-Studies" fake degrees because they didn't have the training for real degrees. This when if these reasonably smart kids had gone to a state school or HBC, they would have done fine. White guilt (of the elite) assuaged but little else.; 5/16/22, 9:00 AM
JAORE said...: Toddlers sent out to shop in Japan. Twenty-somethings in the US surprised the loans the willingly took must be paid back.

I recall watching Peter Pan with Mary Martin many times in my youth. I especially liked the song, "I won't grow up". But I never adopted it as a lifestyle.; 5/16/22, 9:09 AM
Geoff Matthews said...: Before any debt relief is offered, there needs to be a solution to prevent this from happening in the future.
Schools should be on the hook for a portion of the debt that is defaulted/forgiven going forward.; 5/16/22, 9:55 AM
Static Ping said...: The long-term solution is to put the schools of higher learning on the hook for accepting unqualified students and/or encouraging them to get useless degrees. If they start losing lawsuits over and over again for predatory behavior, that will fix the problem right quick.

My first impression that minorities hardest hit is that affirmative action has caused schools to accept students with lower qualifications which, objectively, think will result in a higher rate of failure. That's approaching fraud.

Do remember that students are making these decisions while they are still teenagers, teenagers who have been barred by law from a wide range of adult responsibilities and rights. When you are making high value contracts with minors, there should be a higher level of scrutiny.; 5/16/22, 12:28 PM
effinayright said...: Wince said...
Reparations in this case would imply the colleges and universities disgorging their ill gotten gains, not the taxpayer.
*********

Huh? The kids borrowed money from the federal government or federally-backed loans.

The kids used the loans to pay for college expenses: tuition, room and board, books and materials etc. The colleges spent that money on the goods and services.

Colleges suck, but how does them using federal loan money to provide goods and services to their students result in "ill-gotten gains"?; 5/16/22, 12:32 PM
Christopher B said...: ussmidway, I think it goes even deeper than that. Forgiving existing loans is the first step towards universal no-tuition post-secondary degrees because how can you make a degree obtained in 2013 essentially cost-free and treat one in 2023 differently? First 4 year liberals arts and sciences, then probably masters or masters-level, but never trade schools or apprenticeship programs. In addition to the students, this would be a tremendous benefit to the millions of post-secondary instructors, professors, and especially administrators and staff, all reliably Democrat-leaning.; 5/16/22, 1:31 PM
Kai Akker said...: ---The stupidity of granting student loans in the first place to those not-so-brilliant youngsters who don't even know that loans must be repaid and the sheer governmental stupidity of not requiring their irresponsible parents to qualify as co-signers is absolutely pathetic.

[sound of jaw hitting floor]

Who are you and what have you done with Gadfly?; 5/16/22, 1:33 PM
Kai Akker said...: ---Before any debt relief is offered, there needs to be a solution to prevent this from happening in the future.
Schools should be on the hook for a portion of the debt that is defaulted/forgiven going forward.

---Soon after debt jubilee is an accomplished fact, there needs to be a plausible-enough-sounding fantasy to make it sound as though it might prevent this from happening in the future even though everybody knows the stipulations will be vague and worthless in the actual event. Schools should be told they will be on the hook for a portion of the debt that is defaulted/forgiven going forward when we office-holders are safely out of here and collecting our pensions, which will be COLA'd at 2x future inflation rates.

FIFY Geoff; 5/16/22, 1:44 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: I am skeptical of the claim that Black students are more likely to drop out than white ones. (Aside: Why is is always literally "black and white"? Like, other races do not exist in America?) I had heard, on the contrary, that Black students at top universities were much less likely to drop out; they had much more invested (not in the student-loan sense) in their education than kids of other races did. If you're a Black kid at Harvard or Yale or Brown or Columbia, you have every possible incentive to stay the course.; 5/16/22, 9:19 PM
Tim said...: Here is an idea. If you borrowed the money to get a degree, pay it back. If you borrowed the money because of bad lending practices by the university you attended, giving you money when you had no real shot at a degree, I can get on board with you paying half and the university paying half. If you got a degree in something worthless, slap yourself and then pay the money back.; 5/17/22, 3:23 PM