"... and shrank into the breasts I had fantasized about for more than 25 years. Until age 11, I was a confident, athletic child.... Then, my breasts arrived.... I stopped playing sports, stopped playing outside altogether. Worse, I was dogged by boys and loathed by girls.... ... Kathy Davis, the foremost contemporary feminist theorist on the subject, wrote in a 1991 article in the journal 'Hypatia,' that cosmetic surgery was 'regarded as an extreme form of medical misogyny, producing and reproducing the pernicious and pervasive cultural themes of deficient femininity.' The woman who yielded to the desire to commit such violence to her body was a 'cultural dope,' afflicted by false consciousness, believing she made a personal choice while actually yielding to a system that controls and oppresses women.... My conception of feminism... permitted me to cover myself in tattoos, pierce just about every flap of skin on my body and stretch inch-wide holes in my earlobes.... [But t]o change my body through cosmetic surgery... was unnatural and irreversible, perverting my God-given form in too extreme a fashion.... It seems clear to me now that any feminist position on cosmetic surgery that doesn’t take women’s relationships to their own bodies into account actually objectifies them. I’d hated my body for years, felt both obscured and exposed by it, and subjected it to many acts that others wanted irrespective of my desires... The assumption about cosmetic surgery is that it will give the patient something she didn’t have before, but I’ve found the greater gift to be what it removes. My body’s meaning has consolidated and is less contingent on the perceptions of others."
From "The Feminist Case for Breast Reduction/My body had been objectified for as long as I could remember. So I decided to change it" by Melissa Febos(NYT).
This is a very long article, and I understand the motivations to write long articles about feminism and one's personal choices. But I don't think the question of breast reduction is difficult. If you have uncomfortably large breasts weighing you down and restricting your activity, go ahead and have the surgery. The author obsesses over the difference between "cosmetic" surgery and surgery to correct a "deformity," but I don't see why feminism should adopt that line. Improving your comfort and functionality is easily justifiable, and I don't see anyone out there objecting to this kind of surgery.
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Humans are need factories. We must problematize the ordinary.
I’m not clear on her view of tattoos and stretched earlobes. Those are as disfiguring and permanent as breast reduction, just as motivated by dissatisfaction with her god-given body. Is she saying those things are ok? Or are those things included in the list of unnatural and irreversible? I don’t get too worked up about it, but I’m generally against the casual collecting of tattoos. They mar attractive people and don’t help unattractive people.
>My conception of feminism... permitted me to cover myself in tattoos, pierce just about every flap of skin on my body and stretch inch-wide holes in my earlobes.... To change my body through cosmetic surgery... was unnatural and irreversible, perverting my God-given form in too extreme a fashion...<
So this poor, tormented woman is also schizophrenic, I see. A pity.
Well OK. Want 'em small - go at it. Want 'em big - go at it.
I didn't get the bit about being "loathed by Girls". But whatever.
She seems more obsessed with tits than she thinks men are.
And if you took a poll on this subject, I bet that at least half of the men (and lesbians) would say that huge breasts are not what they find attractive.
"...and I don't see anyone out there objecting to this kind of surgery."
Yes. No one is objecting to this kind of surgery.
Feminist writes long article about problem that doesn't exist. Weather after a brief word from our sponsor, then sports. News at 11.
More power to her, she shouldn't feel any worse than if she removed a wart or mole.
This is a very long article
A picture's worth 1,000 words. If the subject is breasts, 2,000.
I consider almost all of the body-altering surgeries to be ill-advised, some crossing the line to mental illness. But this one I get; large breasts must be a pain in the ass. They're also unattractive, IMO.
Leave your bodies alone.
Be Masters of Your Own Domain.
I agree. It's my understanding the most common reason for the surgery is to deal with large size disparity; one of my relatives had that done.
I don't disagree with Ann at all, but I'm also guessing that this surgery did not relieve the author's mental distress about herself.
There is nothing worth a long article about reducing over-large breasts. The usual feminist hysteria is probably what this is about.
Why didn't she get her tats removed while she was at it?
The "objectification" bit is probably what drags it into feminism. However, her less invasive procedures likely took care of most of that...
My kid sister had breast reduction for medical reasons. At 5'1" she was HUGE, even keeping a stuffed zebra on her dresser because, she said, "That's the size I really need." By her early 50s the effect of those breasts was sufficient to cause rapid deterioration in her spine and SI joints. She said they removed about two-thirds of the tissue to get her down to a DD. The bone and joint problems resolved within a year. Now in her 70s, she's certain she'd have been a cripple by her early 60s without that work. "Smartest thing I ever did for my body."
What next? Post-graduation nose job reversal? Should be popular in Bel-Air.
Oh, there are definitely people who object to the surgery. There are probably not many of them, but they exist and for a wide variety of reasons.
These sort of articles are a sign of the times. People want to be victims and any reason to be a victim is acceptable. Manufacture one as necessary. Furthermore, the Internet has unleashed and amplified the crazies, so it much easier to find someone who objects to you and then assume Twitter is all of reality.
The author of the piece is stating that she hates her woman's body.
Aren't feminists supposed to not talk about that? It tends to make her sound as though her feminism is a result of having a screw loose.
"Worse, I was dogged by boys and loathed by girls" are not the words of a mentally healthy teenage girl, who, I suspect, would appreciate male attention and female envy.
She probably figured that spending major bucks on elective surgery would be denounced as white privilege, so she had to justify it on the basis of either class struggle, anti-colonialism, or feminism.
Another option would've been to have her tits lopped off completely and declare herself trans, but there are seemingly tons of them. The feminism spin is her best bet to spin a NYT article into a book deal.
You can only imagine the beautiful penis doctors could make for her with the leftovers from that big ugly balloon.
Installing large fake boobs = A-OK!
Reducing breasts that are too large? What is wrong with you? Do you not realize what smaller breasted women go thru to impress others with their big fake boobs?
Obey.
Here in Southern California breast surgery a non-issue.
The author obsesses over the difference between "cosmetic" surgery and surgery to correct a "deformity,"
Sounds more ableist than feminist.
Silicone Valley
Occasional conversation around here:
She: I can’t wear a bra. My breasts are too big. Hurts my back too much.
He: We are next door to Scottsdale. Best plastic surgeons this side of Rodeo Drive (not knowing LA geography that well)
She: But that would be morally wrong! God gave me them for a reason.
He: Grunts - knowing that this session didn’t involve problem solving, but listening.
We are about a mile west of Scottsdale Rd, and there really are a bunch of really good plastic surgeons in the maybe 10 miles to the south there. Mostly they make them bigger, while removing inconvenient fat deposits, and tightening faces. Big 35-45 female crowd here, where they are trying to trade up from their starter husband, and running into a buzz saw of competition. Back 20 years ago, when I was dating, dated a woman once, and didn’t remember her. Ran into her a couple years later, and she had grown a monster rack, and had gotten her father to help her finance a too expensive house so that she could go into real estate. She was underwater there, and hoping her monster tits would somehow help get her out of her problem. I didn’t stick around.
My view on breast reduction surgery is that there really isn’t a physiological reason for really big breasts, except as a sexual lure for guys. B, C cup women nurse just fine. I have known women with much bigger breasts than that (tip to guys, if you are interested in the women, go below them - they often can’t see what you are up to). Partner grew up with some girls who had monsters. Two of them had their ob/gyn do the reduction surgery. Wrong! If you are going to do it, go to a board certified plastic surgeon who plays with breasts for a living. She called the surgeries butcheries. Cost one of them far more in clean up surgeries, than it would have cost if she had gone to a good professional in the first place.
So, we have been going round and round about breast reduction surgery for probably better than a decade now. She’s never going to do it, esp since her daughter has the opposite problem, and that would really upset her. I have gone so far as to offer that I have been researching the best plastic surgeons in Scottsdale (I don’t bother, but it sounds good). Or, I just grunt.
If I had been in her position, I would have had multiple reasons for wanting reduction surgery. Some of them would have been entirely health-related and "my own feeling about my own body" related. But, one of the reasons would definitely have been, "to stop attracting the gaze and attention of that segment of men [however large or small a % of men it is] who just can't leave it alone". To the extent that this reason arose in my awareness, that's where I would have felt conflicted about the surgery because I would have thought, "Why the heck do I have to get surgery because of the way some other people act?" I'm guessing that feminist conflict arises around this because of the feminist idea that the problems and strangenesses of others shouldn't be allowed to cause us to make certain decisions.
Recently, at a thrift shop, I bought the biography of Jenny Jones, who hosted a television talk-show during the years 1991-2003. I used to watch her show all the time.
The biography is very interesting. Her life was a real rags-to-riches story. I admire her.
Anyway, she was quite flat-chested, and also had a big nose. These features embarrassed her, because she was a performer in the entertainment business.
When she got enough money, she had her nose fixed, and that surgery was successful.
Then she got breast-augmentation surgery. The enlargement was too much, and she suffered complications. Eventually she had to get six breast surgeries, ending in a complete mastectomy.
When she hosted her talk-show, she told about her own bad experience, and she hosted guests who cautioned against plastic surgery.
Her talk-show featured a lot of "make-overs", which showed the viewers how to improve their appearance just with cosmetics, hairstyles and clothing.
Breasts are not now, ever a baby, an independent human life. So abort your breasts, your burden, in whole or part, with a clear conscience, for social, redistributive, clinical, or fair weather causes. No heartbeat. No coherent nervous system function.
Today's theme (every day's theme?) seems to be body alteration. Whatever happened to the idea that you're beautiful, or at least good enough, as God made you? Probably the realization that one doesn't measure up to the images one sees in the mass media gets people interested in changing their appearance. It seems paradoxical that the notion that the human body can be beautiful makes so many people feel ugly and inadequate.
A form of self-hatred…
I’m not clear on her view of tattoos and stretched earlobes. Those are as disfiguring and permanent as breast reduction, just as motivated by dissatisfaction with her god-given body.
Yeah, evidence of an underlying and progressive pathology, which should be resolved before choosing to further corrupt healthy tissue for light and casual causes.
It seems like a lot of times people say, "If I could just change this one thing, I would be happy." But when they make the change, they still aren't happy. Ultimately, you are who you are. Trying to be something you aren't, trying to become something you aren't, won't make you happy. Far better to accept yourself for who you are, with all of your flaws, and then live your life. Also, reducing your breast size will not make men not want to have sex with you. If you're a (biological) woman, that is enough to make men interested.
Men don't like larger breast per se, they like larger breasts because they are easier to see, like from across the room. The question about breast size came up with bunch of dudes in a garage when I was in my 20s. The overwhelming consensus was: smaller is better.
She's just reducing her breasts. It is conducive to health. I've known two women whose health improved dramatically after the procedure. No more back pain, lower blood pressure because they could exercise comfortably.
Is there a male equivalent for over-large testicles, I wonder? But not much.
But I don't think the question of breast reduction is difficult. If you have uncomfortably large breasts weighing you down and restricting your activity, go ahead and have the surgery.
My younger sister had reduction surgery in the late 70's. She is an attractive, somewhat thin woman who developed rather large breasts as a teenager. Two other sisters were normal. The big boobs were quite the nuisance with tons of guys hitting on her as if she was a pro of some sort.
They were weighing her down in more ways than one.
Interesting that she objectifies herself by referring to her body as "my body" rather than the simple self-referential "I". It's as though her body is something separate from her. It might make sense to speak this way of "my breasts" implying a subset of her body in her person's possession of self, but it is jarring to hear her blame men for objectifying her when she does it to herself.
gilbar had the good fortune to date (or, at least run around with,) a lady that happened to need a 42D bra. She did NOT like her big fat breasts. Having seen them outside of her bra i could understand better. They might have been IMPRESSIVE when she was a teen; but by the time gilbar met her, they were just heavy and saggy.
Don't get gilbar wrong; they were still great.. But NOT as great as 42D sounds.
On the other hand(ful), gilbar has dated girls with B cups.. That were close to perfection.
One of the kids had this done years ago and seems perfectly happy and non-neurotic about it.
I've never seen a tattoo or a piercing that improved a woman's looks. Others may differ.
Back fifty-plus years ago, late high school into college, I knew a couple of women whose figures would have been great with a substantially smaller bust. They worked at reducing the visual impact--shapeless shifts vs blouse and skirt, for example--because they didn't want to be hit on, stared at, hooted at. Wanted to be a bit more sure of what a guy wanted of them.
Uncommon but not unknown. Expect they had reduction surgery since then.
Back fifty-plus years ago, late high school into college, I knew a couple of women whose figures would have been great with a substantially smaller bust. They worked at reducing the visual impact--shapeless shifts vs blouse and skirt, for example--because they didn't want to be hit on, stared at, hooted at. Wanted to be a bit more sure of what a guy wanted of them.
Uncommon but not unknown. Expect they had reduction surgery since then.
[In] Southern California breast surgery [is] a non-issue.
Obviously. Who has time to whinge about her tits or even use verbs when you're beavering away at the foundations of civilization?
I agree completely with your conclusions.
OTOH, from Princess Bride:
Westley: There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours.
/couldn't resist
"I’d hated my body for years"
So tattoos and piercings are not expressions of self-respect?
What’s her stance on vaginal reconstruction and anal bleaching ?
I'm a butt and leg man. Not to say I don't admire the entire female form. But the physical is really just the flash that gets you to pay attention, the real attraction is between the ears.
I have known dated one woman that needed the reduction surgery, and knew another that had had it done. Still had a substantial form. (it's tough trying to explain this without coming across way more crude than I actually am)
rcocean said...
I didn't get the bit about being "loathed by Girls". But whatever.
Women dress for the approval of other women. Maybe, 80%+
The rest for guys. But women's approval is what its all about. An showing off with out sized breast...brings out the claws.
When women talk about breast size, it is about how they want to look for other women. Some men may voice a preference, but what is above the waist is 2cnd place to what is below the waist.
...by Melissa Febos
Where have I heard that name before?
"I'll give you a hint..."
Eh. If it saves her back.
You know, the strain of carrying such weight can wreak a back.
Loathed by girls…
For getting all that attention!!
Jealousy.
'The overwhelming consensus was: smaller is better.'
IBTC
She must’ve gotten tired of the “look at the tomatoes on Febos”…
Her breasts didn't seem unusually large to me, but if she wants breast reduction surgery, that's her business. She seems to have deeper problems, though. Is she some kind of performative narcissist? Why does she think this is a story she must share with the world, in the tone that she has chosen, I wonder. Because it reads like she thinks it's everyone else's fault, somehow.
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