A WaPo headline asks a question I didn't have but now want to know how to answer.
According to REI Co-Op, "Type 2 fun is miserable while it’s happening, but fun in retrospect. It usually begins with the best intentions, and then things get carried away. Riding your bicycle across the country. Doing an ultramarathon. Working out till you puke, and, usually, ice and alpine climbing."
The WaPo article says:
On this scale, Type I fun is an activity you’re sure you’ll enjoy, and you do. Think: sharing a nice meal with friends, going to the beach....
Type III fun? It’s actually not fun at all. It’s often described as “harrowing,” like getting dangerously lost in the wilderness or trying to swim across the Atlantic....
But Type II fun? That’s the sweet spot. It challenges you without putting you in danger — and it’s often uncomfortable but in ways that also make you feel alive.
I'm reading this just as I'm trying to get my mind around going out for several days in our new camper, which is Type I fun for Meade, but Type II for me:
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Type II + Fun: Type II fun that possibly, randomly goes Type III, like setting up camp in Grizzly Bear territory….
Quite a leap from #1 'sharing a meal w/friends' and #2 riding a bike across the country, unless its Liechtenstein.
"Type 2 fun is miserable while it’s happening, but fun in retrospect. It usually begins with the best intentions, and then things get carried away."
"But Type II fun? That’s the sweet spot. It challenges you without putting you in danger — and it’s often uncomfortable but in ways that also make you feel alive."
Like we used to joke in my fraternity, no means yes and yes means anal.
sounds like Csikszentmihalyi and Flow.
I've had a lot of Type II fun over the years (though I've never heard it called that until now). I hardly think a camper qualifies.
I also don't know what to think about declaring something Type II fun prospectively. Maybe you just shouldn't go.
Nobody tells stories about sitting down for a nice dinner. At least, none of my friends do. We tell stories about getting lost on our motorcycles, or being forced to hitchhike back to the motel after the concert because every Uber driver in town decided to take the night off. Having stories to tell afterwards, I would argue, is a better descriptor of Type 2 and 3 fun. An ordinary camping trip is going to be type 1. A camping trips with a challenge will be type 2. A camping trip with bears outside the camper? Type 3. As long as they stay outside the camper.
Advice on camping for couples who wish to stay married: Turn one major portion of the operation over to your spouse and let them run it entirely their way. Having something they can control makes the uncontrollable far more bearable, which makes it far more likely they'll eventually warm to the adventure.
Camping is pitching a tent or sleeping under the stars. It's relaxing unless you have no idea what you're doing. A camper is saving money on motels. Why would Meade want to take you along if you've already decided you aren't going to like it? Why not find a buddy who would really like to go camping and send you off on a city weekend with a girlfriend?
Level 1 Take sketch books and bring back some rats?
Level II Get paper maps and learn to use the stove skillfully. Buy appropriate Roadside Geology book to while away the time. "Hmm, that giant boulder that fell on the road must be glacial erratic." "5,000 years ago there was plenty of water here. Also camels."
Level III Fun fact. You don't feel anything while you are scrambling out of a mess. Feelings come later
"Level III Fun fact. You don't feel anything while you are scrambling out of a mess. Feelings come later"
My experience differs.
Though there is a remarkable feeling of determination that obtains.
Type 2 fun is getting up in NYC subway and trying out some material.
The camper trip pic makes me smile. My ex married an outdoorsy guy who has a fifth wheel camper. She is not outdoorsy, unless you count it as a hotel without 24-hour room service. But, after a few trips, she absolutely loves it!! They take it to state parks, the beach, and to football games. I wish Ann and Meade the same happy adventures…
Sailing is a type one PLANNED event that can go type II or even type III pretty quickly.
Not paying enough attention in a 360 degree manner has gotten a Squall Line to catch up to us.
Reef NOW, secure yourself to the boat and hang on.
But as some Sailers like to say when back at the dock, "Death Cheated AGAIN" and they go get a beer.
I'll give you Type III "fun." Avoid getting sucked down the Norden Chute on the Niobrara river in Nebraska's Sandhills. Many don't survive.
@Althouse Has doing this blog daily for as long as you have been Type II fun for you?
Type I fun is participation.
Type II fun is accomplishment.
Prepare trophies accordingly.
In the woods, a pick-up, and a Freedom Flag?
Hallelujah!
Level 11 for FUN!
In Chicago a type I trip to the store is when you go out and come back with what you wanted. Type II is when you get robbed and carjacked without a fatal wound. Type III is if you die.
But Type II fun? That’s the sweet spot. It challenges you without putting you in danger — and it’s often uncomfortable but in ways that also make you feel alive.
So Type II fun is like visiting my in-laws. Is that right?
I'm a type III myself.
I do love Roadside Geology, made driving across Arizona with two physicists fun.
- Type 1 fun: fun while you do it, fun afterwards.
- Type 2 fun: not fun while you do it, fun in retrospect.
- Type 3 fun: not fun while you do it, not fun in retrospect, but you are going to do it again.
- Type 4 fun: nope, not going to do it again.....I hope.....
“Type I fun for Meade, but Type II for me”
You’re a good egg, Ann.
Type ll fun. Road trip to the Valley of the Gods just north of awe inspiring Monument Valley and camping anywhere you decide to pull over on BLM land. Beautiful gravel/dirt road and "out" there. But still safe. Especially with Meade by your side. My sig other takes on the official role of "Shotgun" and is responsible for maps and navigation, finding gas stations and hotels after 3 nights under the stars in our rig, etc. She a Pro from Dover finding cool spots to spock out.
Blogger Original Mike said...
"I've had a lot of Type II fun over the years (though I've never heard it called that until now). I hardly think a camper qualifies."
I'm with you on this. The good thing about this set up is it can go just about anyplace. No campground required. The more remote the better.
For me Type II fun was agreeing to mountain bike at Slick Rock in Utah and despite its name, none of the rocks are slick. To the contrary, they're the equivalent of rough-grain sandpaper. Great for tire traction; not great when you crash. It all started out fine, until I attempted to ride up a boulder that was just a little too big for me. Ended up skidding back, scraping my knees raw and bloody when I crashed. It took months for those knees to heal. But, I can say I rode Slick Rock and have the pics to prove it!
I would quibble with the idea that Type II is miserable when it's happening. I think you should redefine it as something you wouldn't choose to do, but heck, you're sporting, so you'll give it a try.
Otherwise, if you're sure you won't like it, why even try?
When you are ADHD, Type II fun is what normals experience in Type I fun which is way to safe easy and boring to be anything other than drudgery. That's why it's so hard to make friends when you have a low dopamine baseline.
Type 1 fun is ignoring the Supreme Court nomination hearings.
Type 2 fun is watching and commenting on the hearings.
Type 3 fun is being nominated.
Trying to wrap my ahead around the notion of going out for several days in a new camper as challenging, especially considering the Type 2 examples given.
Actual Type 2 and certainly Type 3 are in my estimation essential components of the examined life (with apologies to Socrates). And Type 3 is in fact fun, usually -- take my word for it. Of course it all depends on your particular concept of fun.
Shooting my age on a golf course. Ain't gonna happen unless I am 102 years old.
What type is doing something that's fun at the time but painful afterwards and embarrassing to remember?
So, Meade, I think the message is clear.
All that's your business of course, but, if, in the near future, you need to unload a very slightly used Ford camper I might be in the market for a fire sale price.
It was a good try though. Your purchase and her ride along shows commitment on both sides.
Just don't push your luck.
I have a closet full of really nice ladies skiing gear. Used once.
Blogger Michael said...
Sailing is a type one PLANNED event that can go type II or even type III pretty quickly.
sailing is type I if day sailing, type II if ocean racing, type III if you get a 50 knot squall at night with a chute up.
I've done all three.
I spent most kid summer vacations in a tent at a site with no electricity so it mostly means boredom to me.
Type II: blogging every day for fifteen years.
:-)
sounds like Csikszentmihalyi and Flow.
My thoughts exactly Mike. I know I've mentioned flow on here before. It's amazing how it drives human behavior, especially with things such as "happiness".
Type IV - When I was a Boy Scout, I REALLY enjoyed camping in the woods. Of course at the time, I was a single male pyromaniac. As I aged, I realized I no longer enjoyed sleeping on the ground, and women don't enjoy relieving themselves in the woods.
14 years ago we went to Germany for 6 days to visit our daughter doing a study abroad. Teaching at a school on a US military base.
I looked forward to it. My better half was in 100% worry mode about everything. Every pause was met with worry. I enjoyed myself, my better half likes to say she has seen Germany, but cant really say she had fun.
Its all about expectations.
madAsHell said...
As I aged, I realized I no longer enjoyed sleeping on the ground
between weighing more (in My case; a LOT more), muscles being stiffer, and bones be frailer..
Sleeping on the ground is NOT like it was, that's for sure!
I didn't used to need an air mattress, just a 6 pack of beers
NOW, ground is HARD! Especially since i don't drink
Type III fun is electing Joe Biden President.
Type III reminds me of a passage I love from the Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson:
"Having an adventure is a sign that something unexpected, something unprovided against, has happened; it shows that someone is incompetent, that something has gone wrong. For that reason we pride ourselves on the fewness of our adventures; for the same reason we are a bit ashamed of the few we did have. An adventure is interesting enough in retrospect, especially to the person who didn’t have it; at the time it happens it usually constitutes an exceedingly disagreeable experience."
As family we vacationed in a pickup camper. 10.5 footer on a 1968 Ford 250. Straight 6 300ci with a 4 speed. Mom and dad slept over the cab, older Brother on the table/bed, and little sister on a make shift cot suspended over the table/bed. I slept in the cab of the PU. Us kids spent the day laying in the overhead bed, looking down the road as we traveled. Life was grand for us kids, not sure if mom and dad had as much fun, but they/we did it for about 4 years.
"As I aged, I realized I no longer enjoyed sleeping on the ground"
I just got thicker pads (still have my first one; I can't imagine sleeping on it now).
As I aged, I realized I no longer enjoyed sleeping on the ground, and women don't enjoy relieving themselves in the woods.
My son would go to boundary waters 3 times a year if he could find the time. When his wife was his betrothed, they went together. For her, I think it was V, or VI. Miserable and scared was the best mood she could muster for the duration of the activity. Though she laughs when it comes up, rarely comes up.
Type II fun would be what every good story from my past military days are examples of.
I enjoy type two rowing a single scull in a river flowing 3000 ft per second in a nine mile an hour wind. It takes getting used to. The water is 55 degrees.
"My son would go to boundary waters 3 times a year if he could find the time. When his wife was his betrothed, they went together. For her, I think it was V, or VI. Miserable and scared was the best mood she could muster for the duration of the activity."
I made multiple Boundary Waters and Quetico trips in my life. My favorite were the solo trips. Some of the portages were miserable (long, wet, muddy; or all three), but in the service of providing priceless experiences. And the momentary pain is even remembered "fondly". Type II fun. I think it would have been somewhat less without the pain.
“What type is doing something that's fun at the time but painful afterwards and embarrassing to remember?”
When the blackout fades about 15yrs later…
My brother called from FL this morning. He &hisceife will have been gone on vacation 3weeks!! Unreal. House on the ocean (they went w/close friends) a boat- a screened pool to prevent UV rays(wth). I said: sounds like fun! He said: you’d hate it. Lol
Type I: grilling &campfire at our friends pond. Saw a hawk pull a trout out of it and drop it 3times…
Type II: going on a retreat. Very introspective. Tiring. But a vessel filled day
Type III: I don’t think I’m ready for type III
KellyM- been fat biking? My brother loves it
Aside: went about 3hrs away to pick up newborn doelings w/my daughter. 13 of them. Straight through over-rated Middlebury College- and beyond. I’m not a traveler. The smell of her car - hurl. But I saw a lot of my state- beautiful land- the expensive areas!! And took a few photos of old churches and stone buildings- on the fly. Despite a migraine getting there, it disappeared when we stopped at the farm and loaded the kids. I snagged one and it slept on me all the way home. I’m used to 100#+ baby calves- not rabbit sized ruminates.
Joy.
You’ll enjoy your Type II outings, b/c you both love experiencing new things together.
Is there anyone who likes to make words up more than lefties do?
Wow! An overpriced crap retailer of "outdoor clothing/equipment" is informing the world of what we should consider when enjoying ourselves. I was an avid backpacker in the 60's, CA Sierra & Cascades, and the exertion wasn't even an after thought as we knew the next ridge was going to be a fantastic panorama as was the next turn in the river canyon. I could provide further examples from my too long life but, suffice to say, any activity, physical or mental,shared with a like thinker/doer is fun!
I just spoke with my friend who's really connected and he said there are really IV types of fun.
You'll have to trust my sources.
'Deep Survival' is a good read about Type II fun that devolved into Type III.
Josephbleau said...
In Chicago a type I trip to the store is when you go out and come back with what you wanted. Type II is when you get robbed and carjacked without a fatal wound. Type III is if you die.
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anbody expecting Jussie Smollet to drop in to categorize his adventure
I feel like there’s some serious innuendo at work here.
@farmgirl,
I put fat tires on my old hardtail mountain bike and use it as a road bike. Good for the miserable pot hole streets here in SF. A geared up beach cruiser.
“a river flowing 3000 ft per second “. Im sure a typo, ha ha. That’s almost Mach 3.
There's another type, call it Type 0. It's when you start doing something you expect to be Type 1 or 2, but it unexpectedly turns into a profoundly wonderful experience that is much more than just 'fun.' Like falling in love.
It's a bit too raw for Type I camper fun. Just wait until the nighttime temperatures become comfortable enough for long sessions of stargazing and listening to Nature's nocturnal symphony of birdcalls, cricket chirps, and bullfrogs bellows.
“a river flowing 3000 ft per second “. I'm sure a typo, haha. That’s almost Mach 3.
A river flowing at 3000 cubic feet per second would be quite sluggish assuming it's a genuine named river and not a creek.
“a river flowing 3000 ft per second “
Maybe typo, Maybe river flow rate, not speed. Cubic ft or cubic meter.
Type I fun for Meade, but Type II for me:
Heh. When we were younger my wife would say she needed a vacation after experiencing on of the vacations I planned. She did admit they were loads of fun in retrospect.
Type I fun for Meade, but Type II for me:
Heh. When we were younger my wife would say she needed a vacation after experiencing on of the vacations I planned. She did admit they were loads of fun in retrospect.
Michael K--You were sailing at night with a chute up?
Who are you--Jack Aubrey?
Often said while skiing--"What's the worst that could happen?" and "It seemed like a good idea at the time."
My wife and I have a saying that originated 30+ years ago: It isn't a vacation until we're driving, lost on a gravel road, in the rain, with the sun setting, and we both need a bathroom. Buffalo aren't necessary, but were involved in the origin of the saying.
I get it. Hard exercise can be like that. Oftentimes in the latter stages of a workout -- biking, weights, crossfit -- you're getting really wiped out and reaching the end of your capacity, but you feel something of a euphoria, even while your muscles are crying out to stop and you just keep pushing harder. And then when you're done, a different kind of euphoria sets in for having just done that.
When younger, I would claim that you can't have fun unless you are tired, wet, or cold. And if you are tired and wet and cold, you ipso facto must be having fun. Now I have fun sipping Guinness and smoking a cigar while watching the sun set over the pasture.
Type II fun I've experienced? Camped in a tent at 19,000'on Aconcagua with a dead man lying just outside the tent and another maybe a hundred feet away while the wind howled nearly nonstop for a week. Our stove was a little weak which resulted in me spending pretty much all day long, every day, melting enough snow for drinking water and cooking for my party of four. The wind finally let up and we climbed nearly 4,000' higher to the summit. On another climbing trip we arrived at 17,000' on Denali on an absolutely glorious, sunny and warm (considering where we were) afternoon. I was one of two assistant guides and the lead guide decided we'd dig a snow cave for our group of a dozen or so rather than pitch tents as all the other groups were doing. In the night the wind came up and blew over 100mph for more than 30 hours. Temps were below zero. Throughout those 30+ hours we took in group after group as their sturdy expedition tents ripped to pieces in the wind. We were crammed into our tiny, low ceilinged snow cave like sardines. Not the most miserable night of my life, but certainly the most miserable two nights back to back. When the wind died down on the second morning there was a mass exodus from high camp. All the other groups seemed to feel like they'd gotten away with something. They all packed up and headed down, their attempt on Denali was over. All but our group, we climbed 3,000' higher and stood alone on the summit of the highest point in North America that day. As a climber I experienced a whole lot of type II fun. I don't talk about my type III experiences. Can't exactly call those fun.
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