The Detroit Free Press reports.
To bolster [the informant's] testimony, the government played recordings for the jury in which one of the defendants, Brandon Caserta, is heard telling the informant his opinions....
"Doctors who advocated mandated vaccines — bullet to the face," Caserta is heard saying in recordings captured by Dan. "Buildings that manufacture the vaccines, blow them up. I'm not even kidding. Any lawyer that supports a vaccine mandate, decapitate them in their own home" Caserta said....
"I don't call it contact tracing, I call it constitutional trampling," Caserta said in a recording.... "We create a dynamic where no one wants to be a contact tracer because they might f****** die."...
To him, [Whitmer] was just a servant, Dan said, adding he wanted to go after her "handlers." "I want Zionist banker blood," Caserta is heard saying in one recording....
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65 comments:
Wasn't it MOSTLY the FBI; 'that really pushed the alleged kidnap plotters over the edge'?
Sounds like the guy has anger issues.
I want Zionist banker blood," Caserta is heard saying in one recording....
So it's all about the Benjamins. Where have I heard that before?
Let’s go Brandon!
This is the same FBI that ignored US Women's Gymnastics team complaints? Same FBI that told us the Steele Dossier was true because the media reported on it?
They have a credibility problem, so I'll need to see evidence that's not produced by them.
If I was a juror I would be 'ok, you proved these guys were jerks with violent fantasies but when do we get to the part where Caserta asks for helping kidnapping Whitmer, in his own voice and without prompting? Isn't that what he's on trial for?'
Hutaree all over again. Issue a report that says "right-wing extremism" is the biggest threat to America. The FBI finds drunken/high trailer park poors, get them shitfaced in a bar. Start talking trash--"we should do kidnap Gretchen and stick her on a boat in the middle of the lake!"
YEA!
Boom. Right wing extremists caught on wire tap plotting to overthrow the government. Turns out the FBI was really on the ball when they identified them as a national security threat. They need a bigger budget!
Aside: The same FBI agent that ran the Whitmer sting got promoted. Reassigned to the D.C. bureau.
You'll never guess who was in the charge of FBI operations on January 6.
Now tell us again about the swinger informant on the FBI's payroll that was egging them on while beating his wife.
Sounds like just the kind of unstable person that FBI plants should NOT be egging on.
Is this all they have? I think Whitmer should be tied to a cinder block and dropped in the lake. Does this mean I am a criminal?
Whitmer is just another Nazi......
This is obviously grounds for censoring all conservatives and people who support Trump.
They just can't be allowed to speak in public.
And if they are Putin puppets who fail to support WW3, oppose Vaccine Mandates, or deny climate change we will just have to take their bank accounts.
They must be censored in all public venues and reeducated.
And don't you dare talk about corruption in Ukraine or the Hunter Biden laptop.
Gretchen needs to get out of politics and into something she's more suited to like being a Dominatrix.
The FBI found Castera... and used him.
They found a total nut job...
Yancey Ward said...Is this all they have? I think Whitmer should be tied to a cinder block and dropped in the lake. Does this mean I am a criminal?
Not yet. First an FBI informant needs to agree with you. Then it’s conspiracy.
After all this time......this is what they have???
What was the RATIO of FBI agents -to- nutters? ..on this *plot*?
"I want Zionist banker blood,"
He was so right-wing nut job he veered into leftwing nut job territory.
The FBI does good work, folks.
They fail to stop the Parkland shooter- a boy with a long history of violence.
They fail to stop the Boulder grocery store shooter.. where the FBI stated they were "watching" him. Really? Well - lotta good that did. 10 people are dead.
Can our FBI and CIA take out Putin? Biden's fossil fuel pal? Nope. But they can find nutters to entrap.
plenty of time for that.
Test comment
I'm convinced the Whitmer kidnap plot defendants are victims of illegal purposeful entrapment. Two weeks to flatten the curve, Iraq weapons of mass destruction, Hunter Biden's laptop is Russian disinformation..... I used to trust the government.
Browndog said...
YEA!
Boom. Right wing extremists caught on wire tap plotting to overthrow the government. Turns out the FBI was really on the ball when they identified them as a national security threat. They need a bigger budget!
The goal here was to provide justification of current government/corporation censorship and to criminalize dissent while democrats are in control.
Individuals, defendants should be assumed innocent until proven guilty. Politicians, bureaucrats, the government should be assumed guilty until proven innocent. Past data shows the odds are the government is lying.
Start from this: compulsory vaccination is assault.
No, Achilles, it is OK to talk about Biden's laptop now.
As of last week.
Nothing at all to do with the kabuki in Ukraine. Timing is poor coincidence.
But first they have to replace kamala somehow.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Nutbag! What were the overt acts in support of this conspiracy? That is, acts committed by the nutbags, not the FBI or its consorts.
i have a Modest Proposal; that eliminates Right wing terrorism in the United States
Simply eradicate the FBI!
Think of it! A country without the KKK, without the BoogieLou boyz, without any of it
Just, Eradicate the FBI!
ps, please don't agree with me, or we'll all be going to jail on conspiracy charges
Althouse commentariat can see what happened. Something ends something something means justifies says the left.
When Project Veritas runs a sting nabbing leftie government trailer park nutters on video, the government attacks Project Veritas people...
This is how the FBI helps people who need help.
Can of Cheese asked the relevant question. It's an important question that should not be dismissed as it has been by most all major media.
The same people who dismissed Hunter's laptop, the 2020 election questions, and the VAERS vaccine reports, yet did NOT question the Russia Collusion fraud or Catholic High School boys as racists antagonizers.
I don't know why I cannot quit the feeling that we're not getting the entire story on anything these days.
It was the excess deaths in planned parent/hood facilities in Michigan, New York, New Jersey, part of the Mengele mandates and experiments. People feared being mistaken for a parent. The cover-up, in this case, is equally bad as the crime(s).
The concern with distribution of Covax-20, 21, and 22 in the general population. Covaxes that are non-sterilizing (e.g. silent spreaders) medical treatments, with short safety data and waning effectiveness, documented to produce excess adverse events including progressive loss of viability.
Fed prosecution, Fed agents. Instant more-than-reasonable doubt.
John henry said...
No, Achilles, it is OK to talk about Biden's laptop now.
As of last week.
Nothing at all to do with the kabuki in Ukraine. Timing is poor coincidence.
But first they have to replace kamala somehow.
The only thing I see them achieving is a dissolution of the United States government and trying to maintain control through their corporate/globalist machines.
Anyone they replace Biden/Harris with gets impeached immediately.
I think a lot of Americans don't understand Federal Law. They think because they live in the USA, they can say whatever they want. And because Antifa and leftist regularly issue death threats and threats of violence without any blow-back, they are confirmed in their belief that they have a 1st admendment protection.
Wrong. If some FBI agent can trick you into "conspiring" to committ violence, they can put you on trial and throw away the key. It doesn't matter that you haven't DONE anything. It doesn't matter that you were just LARPing or blowing off steam. Or issuing idle threats. It doesn't matter that the FBI agent enouraged you and actually enabled your threats and "the conspiracy".
Nor does it matter that you are a mentally ill person, or just a sad loner who has nothing going on in your life.
FBI = Fucking Bastards Inc.
It is the FBI. It is bullshit.
This is how the FBI helps people who need help.
They did help... Whitmer.
Just think: there would have been no Senator Blutarski if Dean Wormer had an informant in Delta House.
"Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right."
Much more talk about Zionist bankers and the guy could find himself writing for the Guardian.
Wherever conspiracists start, their first stop out of the station seems to be Jews.
"If some FBI agent can trick you into "conspiring" to committ violence, they can put you on trial and throw away the key. It doesn't matter that you haven't DONE anything. It doesn't matter that you were just LARPing or blowing off steam. Or issuing idle threats. It doesn't matter that the FBI agent enouraged you and actually enabled your threats and "the conspiracy"."
No, the government must prove an overt act, not just that there was a conspiracy to violate the law. If they really were just taking, raving about explosions and beheading and whatnot, that's not enough.
Here ABC News's explaination:
"The trial’s focus will be on whether the plot was more than idle talk of wannabe weekend warriors. To prove it was deadly serious, prosecutors will seek to show how defendants took specific steps, referred to as “overt acts" in the indictment, toward implementing their plans.... Among 19 acts listed under the kidnapping conspiracy count is that Fox proposed the kidnapping of Whitmer on Aug. 23, 2020, during a meeting with Harris and Caserta. During the gathering, they also scrutinized each other’s IDs in a bid to ensure no one was an undercover agent, the indictment says. The indictment says Fox, Croft, Harris and Caserta held field-training exercises in September 2020, practicing tactics for fighting Whitmer's security detail. The indictment says Croft and Harris tested explosives, hanging human silhouette targets to demonstrate the spread and reach of the shrapnel. The indictment attributes another overt act on Oct. 7, 2020, to Caserta, alleging he instructed co-conspirators that, if they encountered police, they should give the officers one chance to leave, then kill them if they didn’t. Among 27 overt acts prosecutors listed under the weapons of mass destruction charge is that Harris boasted on May 1, 2020, that he was a Marine Corps veteran who 'can make things go boom if you give me what I need.'"
So they're saying because these guys are stupid and unpleasant it's perfectly okay to entrap them with government sponsored plots? The chances of these folks doing anything except grumbling in their beer without government instigation was extremely low.
I live near the high school where two people called the FBI about a potential school shooter and were ignored before he killed 17 people. I recall a variety of "known wolf" stories. They have time to raid Roger Stone at zero dark thirty and to wave guns at James O'Keefe regarding possession of a lost diary. They are obsessed with the danger of right wing violence while Antifa operates openly in Washington state and Oregon to commit acts of violence. Our next President should fire them all and start over.
"Now tell us again about the swinger informant on the FBI's payroll that was egging them on while beating his wife."
Or was he beating them off while egging his wife? One sick puppy, however you slice it.
"No, the government must prove an overt act, not just that there was a conspiracy to violate the law."
I believe there is also a defense, called "entrapment", in which one claims that the conspiracy was to commit acts that it would never have entered your mind to commit had you not been prompted by a government agent. The reason this defense exists is to lessen the probability that government agents will waste huge amounts of time and money cooking up "plots" that would otherwise never have existed. It seems to me that it isn't working. More work is needed.
Ann Althouse said...
No, the government must prove an overt act, not just that there was a conspiracy to violate the law. If they really were just taking, raving about explosions and beheading and whatnot, that's not enough.
We watched people actually burn down courthouses and police stations during BLM riots.
We know what "not enough" really means.
But it is fun to watch you try to play devils advocate here.
There is no supporting what the FBI is doing.
No decent human being can support this Regime.
Note how media reports focus on the nutters and not the informants. How many FBI informants were there? What did they say and do?
How much of that from ABC... did the FBI informants push?
Bar talk.
Seems like a lot of those listed "overt acts" were oral, or not logically connected to a "kidnap" plot.
Under that criteria, building a literal "Deathmobile" hidden beneath the "Eat Me" cake with Emil Faber's head mounted on the front would have been a slam dunk overt act proving a plot to kill Wormer, Marmalard and Neidermeyer.
Noteworthy: The trial judge appears to be fair, and is not bending to the demands of the prosecution/FBI.
Gretchen needs to get out of politics and into something she's more suited to like being a Dominatrix.
I always thought she could take over Jane Russell's old TV gig and sell lingerie to "full-figured gals."
Also, I'm waiting for the day when some enterprising art school student looks up how to make bombs as an "art project" and talks on the Internet about setting them off as part of the act. How can you prove serious intent when creative irony and artistic license are thrown into the mix?
Dave is right. If the violent fantasy "bar" talk from right wing nut balls was a crime, half of Althouse's commentariat could be arrested.
"But it was the COVID-19 vaccines, and the thought of them becoming mandatory, that really pushed the alleged Gov. Gretchen Whitmer kidnap plotters over the edge,"
Gosh, you mean people get upset when you try to violate their bodily integrity to "protect" them from something they rationally don't particularly fear? (The death rate from Covid for people under 40 is minuscule)
Isn't it funny how the Left is all "my body, my choice", when it comes to destroying someone else's body (the baby they're killing isn't them, and it's NOT their body, it's the baby's body), but is "screw you, comply" when someone is honestly saying "my body, my choice"?
Or does the Left now agree it's perfectly acceptable for a State to order large companies to fire anyone who gets an abortion?
FBI wife beaters and anti Jewish nutters. Nice group of useless whackjobs.
"No, the government must prove an overt act, not just that there was a conspiracy to violate the law. If they really were just taking, raving about explosions and beheading and whatnot, that's not enough."
Oh. You mean like the Mueller investigation. That was totally legit. Right? Because I heard it from numerous sources including the FBI that Trump colluded with Russia. The FBI wouldn't deceive us. Would they?
@Althouse:
Do "overt acts" in furtherance of an illegal conspiracy need themselves be illegal?
As Can of Cheese asks, did any FBI agents or informants participate in any of them?
Can "field training" not be just a fantasy of what the conspirators would like to have done?
Efrem Zimbalist Jr. has turned over in his grave so many times he's likely under Manila by now!
Where'd they get the explosives?
“ Do "overt acts" in furtherance of an illegal conspiracy need themselves be illegal?”
No
Achilles said...
This is obviously grounds for censoring all conservatives and people who support Trump.
Says the guy who's all in on supporting Putin, who does as much or worse on a regular basis.
You see, Achilles, it's rather difficult to take your complaints seriously, when Putin wants to bring worse to Ukraine, and you're loudly and entirely in favor of him getting to do so.
I'm against Putin doing it abroad, and the Left doing it at home. Which means I can attack the Left by pointing out that they're acting Putinesq
You, OTOH, can't. Because for you, as it is for the Left, the issue is only "whose Ox is getting gored?" Not "no one should be goring anyone's Ox."
The same FBI that punted on Hunters laptop a year ago? They have as much credibility as the NYT.
Hey, whats that shiny thing over there?
The trial is in Grand Rapids, so the "conspirators" will have a chance, I see that the jury pool was eleven women and seven men, the actual 12 have not been announced. Majority female is probably not good for the defense. The crazies deserve a jury of their peers, but all the other crazies were working for the FBI and ineligible to be jurors.
Federal prosecutors and federal agents testifying equals way more than reasonable doubt, the facts laid out by the feds notwithstanding.
I wonder if juror selection included asking if the prospective juror had seen or heard of Richard Jewell, or the movie.
Eastwood's looking kind of old. Wonder if he's got another movie in him.
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