"... a central feature of its practices. Ms. Tarrer, whose church in Huntsville, Texas, charges $250 for a venom ceremony, positioned herself against what she called 'Green movement people' aiming to protect the toad. 'We would never go with synthetic,' she added."
Interesting to see 2 types of nature-focused people pitted against each other. Do you want to save a creature in nature or do you want to preserve access to natural psychedelic drugs? Does freedom of religion tip the scales for you? Does the $250 charge for the "venom ceremony" sap you of your enthusiasm for the religion argument?
Herpetologists say the toad seems to have adapted to human-modified landscapes like irrigation ditches, suburban yards and water tanks on cattle ranches....
Well, if it's in your yard...
When the toad is threatened, it excretes toxins strong enough to kill full-grown dogs.
Get it out of your yard! Or don't have a dog. What's the point of a dog when this toad is excreting God-finding venom?
A substance found in these toxins, 5-MeO-DMT, can be dried into crystals and smoked in a pipe, producing an intense experience generally lasting 15 to 30 minutes, in contrast to other psychedelic substances that can involve hours of hallucinating and vomiting....
Five-MeO-DMT remains effectively illegal in the United States, where it is classified as a Schedule 1 substance. But while many users opt to attend retreats in Mexico, where it is legal, ceremonies are also taking place in the United States, where law enforcement agencies are largely tolerating its growing popularity....
Enforcement efforts will lead to courts finding a religious exemption, so why persecute the religionists? It's just taxpayer money down the rathole — down the toad hole.
Bernice Anderson, 50, who goes by the Mayan name Ixca and charges $1,100 for retreats in Utah, said that smoking Bufo allows some people to feel like they are dying before returning to life
$1,100! Now, that's a religious experience. I'm going to assume Bernice Anderson has Mayan ancestry. You wouldn't adopt a name from a culture that wasn't your own, would you?
“They will foam at the mouth, and their eyes will roll to the back of their head,” said Ms. Anderson, who does not use synthetic 5-MeO-DMT. “It’s at that point where the shamanic experience comes in. This is something that has to be carried out very carefully.”...
That's the argument for $1,100. You need an expert to do a drug — and to do a religion... don't you?
Some warn that collecting the venom also places stress on the toad, a process often described as “milking,” in which a person strokes the amphibian under its chin to initiate a defensive response. The toad then releases a milky substance that can be scraped, dried and smoked.
I love that the NYT is telling us how to prepare the drug. I'm ambivalent about amphibian stroking — stroking until it "releases a milky substance." That seems too sexual. And if stroking is done to arouse "a defensive response," that means the toad is quite specifically NOT CONSENTING.
“People hunger for the narrative that the toad was used ancestrally by the Indigenous people of Sonora,” said Ana Maria Ortiz, a doctoral student who is carrying out a population study of the toad at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Human Ecology. “There’s an appeal to that narrative, and even I believed it at the onset.
Ms. Ortiz, who has used Bufo to help people overcome addictions, said she was aware that some users skeptical of the synthetic form describe an “entourage effect” involving other compounds in the toad’s natural secretions. “A lot of the other compounds in the toxins are actually cardiac glycosides that can kill you,” Ms. Ortiz said. “Synthetic 5-MeO-DMT is just as good. People need to leave the toads alone.”...
Dr. Gerardo Sandoval, another Mexican physician involved in introducing Bufo to new practitioners, likened the synthetic version to “watching a black-and-white movie.” “Toad medicine is watching the movie in 3-D,” added Dr. Sandoval, who owns a ranch in Sonora, where he raises the toads and charges $500 for a venom ceremony.
$500. Who are you going to believe, Ortiz or Sandoval?
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43 comments:
Vomiting, foaming at the mouth, and...lung warts -- what's not to like?
people Need to RESPECT, this Ancient Religion!
This Ancient Religion hearkens back, the days BEFORE the Plague! Back All the Way, to 2015!!
Fortunately, there is still beer and bourbon for my personal mood-altering needs. If you prefer toad-licking, well, you do you.
I can get a quart-size ziploc bag of psilocybin mushrooms for $250. What a gyp…
At those prices it seems like they are opening themselves up to liability.
I wonder what the bad trip rate is on that stuff.
Toad Worship seems less harmful than the religion of Progressivism.
Hey, teacher,
Leave those toads alone.
As Ann mentions, stroking a toad until it gives off a milky substance does seem sexual. Maybe instead of frightening the road one is causing a toadgasm.
Is that a bad thing?
I think the biggest complaint our government has is with these people is they are not getting a big enough Vig from these people.
With federal government thugs it is always about money and control.
We have way too much time on our hands and way too much money to fill that time in our society.
From David Sedaris, "A Carnival of Snackery" (p. 67):
"Now we’re just sitting around before leaving for Raleigh. I’m at a table on the back porch, and she’s lying on the sofa with her parrot, Henry. It’s mating season and several times a week he rubs himself against her hand and leaves behind a droplet of sperm. 'I just wash it off,' Lisa says."
Does anyone want to challenge my use of the "frog" tag? Good, because I am ready to meet that challenge.
I don't think I would pay so much money for the experience, but I HIGHLY recommend trying Bufo if you ever get the chance. It is not even remotely similar to any other drug commonly called psychedelic like mushrooms or LSD. I can not begin to describe the effect properly, but it is entirely benign and absolutely overwhelming. And then it is gone. And you feel better than you did before, but quite sober and not wanting to do more of the toad. I have not done any drugs in many years and I seldom drink anymore, but I would consider smoking Bufo again if the chance arose.
Also, the toads are plentiful in Arizona, and the people I know who used to capture them were extremely careful not to hurt them.
Also, no bad trip possible. No possibility for introspection while on the toad, and then you are back in the world. Sober. As I said, it is unlike anything else you may ever have done. I have tried a pretty wide ranging bunch of drugs to compare it with.
Temujin said...
We have way too much time on our hands and way too much money to fill that time in our society.
Don't worry about that.
Right now there are western elites floating the idea of seizing Russia's gold reserves.
Calamity always follows capital controls. The federal reserve and the SWIFT financial system are already doomed. They may just hasten their fall.
Learn to farm. Learn to hunt. Move near people you trust.
"Does anyone want to challenge my use of the 'frog' tag?"
Frogs, toads, they all look alike to me.
This is what I love about Althouse. Sunday mornin', jackin' the toad.
When absurd obsessions collide. and... what Temujin said.
Ann:
We would never challenge your tag usage.
Human sacrifice, dogs trippin’ on Teh Toad... MASS HYSTERIA!
Toad wrangler slash Shaman...sounds like a pretty good gig. I could do that. Not much overhead. Initial investment isn't bad either.
Fed-Ex will bring me a half dozen toads in a styrofoam box. I'll just put 'em in a horse trough with some crickets and a pan of water. Nothing to it. They're toads. They don't give a shit where they live. Then all I need is a hat like Billy Jack, a coat like Gerry Spence, maybe a silver wrist band with a big hunk of turquoise and I'm all set.
Honest Bob's Toadle Experience. Our goal is to be the Vegas wedding chapel of Shamanic Retreats. You got 15 minutes? Meet the big guy! Only $249.99 plus $100 deposit. Cash.
Most people don't puke, but if you do, I'm keeping that hundred.
Down here in Arizona we had a ton of rain last (2021) Summer and there were literally millions of those toads all over the place, nearly all about the sizer of a quarter. I pulled a few out of my pool, but others would be scooping dozens out every morning. Apparently, the nearby golf course had so many that if you drove your golf cart down the fairway it looked like waves in front of it as the little buggers jumped out of the way.
Today its toads. Wait until the science on insect phermones becomes popular. Being blissed out and covered in very horny small blue butterflies might become popular.
When I read the 1st sentence I thought they were refering to covid 19 shots.
"This is sacred medicine"
YNo, you're a fool whom likes getting high so will say anything.
" I can not begin to describe the effect properly, but it is entirely benign and absolutely overwhelming. And then it is gone. And you feel better than you did before, but quite sober and not wanting to do more of the toad..."
But I already feel perfectly fine... and quite sober and not wanting to do toad.
I will say I support access to psychedelic drugs and think it's part of the freedom of religion, even if no extra supernatural ideas are deployed as part of the process. Your mind belongs to you, and it's like being allowed to read the books you want or to think through dangerous ideas. If a drug allows you to use your mind in a somewhat different way, the government shouldn't stop you (until there's real potential that you'll take some harmful action out in the real world).
Sure, why not. Some religions (i.e. behavioral protocol) sacrifice human life for social, redistributive, clinical, and fair weather causes, while others sacrifice people for minows, other sacrifice ecology for Green technology, and this sacrifices toads for psychedelic effect.
What do you know of sacred, Mr. Dixon?
Research on psychedelics has recommenced after fifty years. So much time lost to over reaction to LSD during the sixties and to that maniac Leary grandstanding across the globe. Toad venom a bit too eccentric for me.
I'm in favor of sobriety as a general rule, but as intoxicants go, Bufo is pretty benign.
From a comment to a later post:
"As a very poor amateur wildlife photographer I often take closeups of small creatures - salamanders, snakes, toads etc (which, btw, contra the earlier article, are poisonous, not venomous, there's a difference)."
[Althouse] - You're right that "venom" is the wrong word, but when I search for other articles, they all say "venom" and not "poison" or "toxin." Why do you think that is? Does "venom" really sound nicer than "poison"? It's a slightly harder word, making it hard to notice the mistake and maybe also hard to understand the stuff as damaging to us.
I went to the group's website, and they do not use either "poison" or "venom" - instead they call it medicine. I suspect that the misnomer came from journalists who (as has been pointed out by many on all sides of the political spectrum) literally know nothing these days.
Also, most medicine would qualify as either (or both) poisonous or venomous in sufficient, often not very high, quantities.
To be weird: I lovelovelove toads.
We usually have a toad as big as a fist that shows up in front of the barn- and call him Poppa Toad.
Also, coaxed my youngest into eating potatoes b/c we dug up a toad w/the harvest one yr and he was all curled up amongst them! Looked just like a potato. I told her he was Toady Farmer and his feelings would be hurt if she didn’t eat his special potatoes.
Of course, all of the potatoes from then on were Toady Farmer potatoes.
For the record-
No desire to milk a toad- male or female…
I can't believe nobody has posted this:
Toadlickers!
The Pepe the Frog cartoon image proliferated in on-line venues such as 4chan, 8chan, and Reddit, which have many users who delight in creating racist memes and imagery, a subset of Pepe memes would come into existence that centered on racist, anti-Semitic or other bigoted themes.
In recent years, with the growth of the "alt right" segment of the white supremacist movement, a segment that draws some of its support from some of the above-mentioned Internet sites, the number of "alt right" Pepe memes has grown, a tendency exacerbated after the 2016 presidential election. The use of racist and bigoted hate versions of Pepe memes continues to increase.
All and all its just another brick in the wall!
Longtrail?
Are they from Vt?
I’d say he’s got a nice voice…
Frogs or toads? Toxin, poison, or venom?
Getting off can be so complicated.
Toadies.
“Dat’s good toad!”
Try as one might, it just doesn’t feel right…
The Lord has done it this very day;
let us rejoice today and do toad.
—- Psalm 118:24b
As the Firesign Theater said, "Drop your load on the giant toad." And psychologically or metaphorically, that is what the toad venom users are doing. Placing the responsibility for their health on a toad, yet admittedly not a giant one.
A small toad as venomous as a small toad, a statement outside of the Althouse paradigm, but still vacuous.
Hamilton's Pharmacopia did a fascinating show on this. As a professional chemist he breaks down all of the drugs effects. In one hilarious scene he is telling Shamans, bufo enthusiasts et. al there is no difference between lab created bufo and the natural one created by the toads secretions. The angry disbelief is worth the watch:
https://youtu.be/3WMA1_PdgRQ
Tegrity toads from Tegrity farms.
Also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9YEc_iOuLg
Before the New York Times reports on anything, on any subject, Punch Junior Junior ought to make sure his editors read English and have a somewhat broader education than that provided by the Columbia J-school because there is no such substance as toad venom The endangered toad is toxic, not venomous. (IMHO, the quality, probity, and morality of the American press corp would improve if all the journalism programs were dismantled and the professors put to more useful work in the foodservice industry.)
The words toxic and venomous are not synonyms. There are important pharmacological and biological differences. Briefly, the difference amounts to how the substance is introduced into the victim and usually the purpose as well. All cobras are venomous, a Sonoran Desert toad (Incilius alvarius) is toxic. A lionfish (Pterois miles) is venomous, any of the Tetraodontidae pufferfish are toxic. A worker honey bee is venomous, a monarch butterfly is toxic. Beginning to see a pattern?
Venoms typically require introduction by penetration, consequently, venomous animals usually have specialized structures for that purpose -- fangs, stingers, spines -- sharp things that pierce the flesh of the target. Venoms are often cocktails of peptides and proteins that can be easily denatured by temperature or pH. You could bake yourself a batch of black widow brownies and all you'd have is some shitty brownies. You could swallow a spoonful of sea snake venom without ill effect, but a milligram injected into your veins will kill you deader than a hammer. Why is this? The excepted hypothesis is to allow the venomous animal to avoid the trouble of evolving immunity to its own chemical weaponry. It wouldn't do the rattlesnake any good to swallow that envenomated rat if otherwise, now would it?
Toxins are very different. Most biologic toxins evolved as deterrents to predation, generally affecting the target no matter how introduced. Just handling an Amazonian dart poison frog is dangerous. Lick one and it's sayonara, sucker. Fugu sushi is notoriously dangerous, but fried pufferfish is no less deadly. Amazonian Indians make poison blowdarts by roasting toxic frogs on a spit and then spreading the gravy on the dart points. Biologic toxins are robust compared to most venoms. Whether heated or exposed to digestive acids and enzymes they usually retain their potency.
There are thousands of toxic animal species, and all of them have one motive for being toxic -- they don't want to be eaten. There are many times more toxic plants and fungi species, perhaps a million kinds. All of them resent being eaten and have evolved interesting chemicals to underline their feelings on the matter. Vegans should consider that fact before striking a pose while I eat a Big Mac.
Pedantry, it's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.
The excepted hypothesis is to allow the venomous animal to avoid the trouble of evolving immunity to its own chemical weaponry. It wouldn't do the rattlesnake any good to swallow that envenomated rat if otherwise, now would it?
What an idiot I am... accepted, dammit.
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