"These are not noble gestures for which Ukraine should bow low. This is your contribution to the security of Europe and the world. Where Ukraine has been a reliable shield for eight years. And for eight years it has been rebuffing one of the world’s biggest armies. Which stands along our borders, not the borders of the EU.... And I hope no one thinks of Ukraine as a convenient and eternal buffer zone between the West and Russia. This will never happen. Nobody will allow that. Otherwise – who’s next? Will NATO countries have to defend each other?... I thank all the states that supported Ukraine today. In words, in declarations, in concrete help. Those who are on our side today. On the side of truth and international law. I’m not calling you by name – I don’t want some other countries to be ashamed. But this is their business, this is their karma."
Said Volodymyr Zelenskiy, quoted in "Ukrainian President Makes Historic Speech in Munich (English Translation)" (Kyiv Post).
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42 comments:
Not exactly Winston Churchill.
"Not exactly Winston Churchill."
Right, sounds more like Edvard Benes.
Blogger Lance said...
"Not exactly Winston Churchill."
Right, sounds more like Edvard Benes.
He's making Ukraine sound like Sudetenland. Is Putin Hitler?
Who's the Neville Chamberlain in this situation?
Ukraine should just pay off the Russian autocrats that Putin is paying off, the amount proportional to how much trouble they could cause.
I’m old enough to remember when we had to elect Joe Biden because Trump was going to start World War Three.
"Not exactly Winston Churchill."
Did you follow the link and read the speech? It's actually quite poweful.
I'd also encourage everyone to read Matt Taibbi's Ukraine pieces to understand Velensky's frustration with the Biden administration. Some of the statements in the speech are a direct jab at Joe Biden but most people wouldn't pick up on it because the media has been feeding us WH propaganda.
Did you follow the link and read the speech? It's actually quite poweful.
No but now I’m gonna since this snip of it reads like an unrolled twitter rant…
…I’ll do it quickly before the censors figure out who he’s dissing…
Unfortunately, this sounds rather like Emperor Haile Selassie warning the League of Nations in 1935 of the dire consequences of the invasion of Ethiopia by Italy.
"It is collective security: it is the very existence of the League of Nations. It is the confidence that each State is to place in international treaties… In a word, it is international morality that is at stake. Have the signatures appended to a Treaty value only in so far as the signatory Powers have a personal, direct and immediate interest involved?"
Not exactly Winston Churchill.
I wonder if Churchill would still be Churchill after being translated into Ukrainian.
that the world isn't lining up to help Ukraine, is really very pathetic.
We were told for 4 years of Trump that there is nothing worse than Putin.
I guess that was a leftist lie. Another leftist lie.
then again- Putin made Hillary very rich.
Just because it sound like some historical speech doesn't mean he's crying wolf. I choose to not pretend to know what is really going on behind the curtain in the steam filled Russian sauna.
kolomoisky who collapsed privat, owns half the rada, supports the most militant factions in the west, like the azov, he's the tail wagging the dog
If we're talking about the Sudetenland, Russia already took the pieces of the Ukraine with the biggest Russian populations, viz. the Crimea. This isn't 1931 (Manchuria) or 1935 (Ethiopia) or 1938 (Czechoslovakia). Zelenskiy is pretty clear, I think, that the protections of international law have already been revealed as a hollow lie:
Ukraine has received security guarantees for abandoning the world’s third nuclear capability. We don’t have that weapon. We also have no security. We also do not have part of the territory of our state that is larger in area than Switzerland, the Netherlands or Belgium. And most importantly – we don’t have millions of our citizens. We don’t have all this.
The Ukraine situation isn't about preserving the credibility of the Western powers. That credibility was already lost back in 2014. Zelenskiy is in the awkward position of asking other powers to take action to restore credibility they lost eight years ago.
But sanctions aren't going to do it unless they're much more severe than prior rounds of sanctions. Zelenskiy may want it public, but I suspect that won't work out for the Ukraine because the range of sanctions the Western powers could agree with each other will probably turn out to be pretty modest.
Anyway, it sounds like Russia is preparing a Soviet-style false flag attack to justify hostilities, but (as with Georgia in 2008), it's not out of the question that they successfully bait the Ukraine into doing something stupid.
Is Biden free to act in America's best interest? Or will the Ukrainians expose the extent of his graft if he doesn't help them?
Actually, the charitable contributions went to Hunter with 10% to "The Big Guy."
How about an American false flag incidents like the Maine, the Gulf of Tonkin or WMDs in Iraq? The list is long
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
https://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Guide-False-Flags-Americas/dp/1092661522
Island countries have a security that those on the continent don't have. Churchill served Britain and civilization very well in 1940, but he wasn't a man for all seasons or someone whose rhetoric could be applied to all situations. In other times and in other countries, leaders can't strike the lion's pose, but have to do what they can to get through crises.
Putin is probably smart enough to get what he wants (or what he can reasonably expect to get away with) without starting an old fashioned ground war. If he's smart, he's playing the long game and Zelensky will have to do the same, not striking theatrical poses.
there are independent actors
https://www.rferl.org/a/azov-ukraine-s-most-prominent-ultranationalist-group-sets-its-sights-on-u-s-europe/29600564.html
Howard, the correct form for a false "whataboutism" argument is, "What about an American...." not the form you used, "How about..."
Your wording carries the implication that you are suggesting such an operation be performed, as in, "How about we do something like this?"
If you're gonna troll, at least make an effort to troll like you mean it.
"Therefore, we have something. The right to demand a shift from a policy of appeasement to ensuring security and peace guarantees.
Since 2014, Ukraine has tried three times to convene consultations with the guarantor states of the Budapest Memorandum. Three times without success. Today Ukraine will do it for the fourth time. I, as President, will do this for the first time. But both Ukraine and I are doing this for the last time. I am initiating consultations in the framework of the Budapest Memorandum. The Minister of Foreign Affairs was commissioned to convene them. If they do not happen again or their results do not guarantee security for our country, Ukraine will have every right to believe that the Budapest Memorandum is not working and all the package decisions of 1994 are in doubt."
Make no mistake. Zelenski is saying he will acquire nuclear weapons if Nato doesn't guarantee Ukraine territory and return of Donbas and Crimea.
I think the rumors are true, Zelenski wants war to get all those billions in western aid he and his cronies can liberate.
"And I hope no one thinks of Ukraine as a convenient and eternal buffer zone between the West and Russia."
Actually, it's right there in the name, Ukrajina, which means something like out of the edge or borderlands.
I thought it was a very strong speech. He made it clear of the impotence of NATO, the EU and that the various treaties probably make better doilies than they do security structure formats. He has pointed out the entire lineup of blowhards and cocktail party dwellers that take up space at the UN, in the halls of various national Congresses, in our own White House and the EU offices in Brussels, seem to be filled with lifeless bodies, living in the past, while the current and future world explodes around them.
Russia no longer follows any of the 20th century post-war lines and rules of engagement. China no longer follows any laws or rules of engagement from any era. Yet- Europe and Joe Biden act as if we're still in 1954.
Zelenskyy spoke truly. I'm sure those tut-tutting diplomats smiled politely, shrugged, and moved on to their next cocktail party. When Ukraine falls to Russia and the entirety of Europe is held hostage to Russian control of their energy in a few years, we'll hear moaning and wailing coming from Brussels, Paris, and Berlin. Biden will probably be gone by then, but his work will have lasting impact.
Balfegor said...
Anyway, it sounds like Russia is preparing a Soviet-style false flag attack to justify hostilities, but (as with Georgia in 2008), it's not out of the question that they successfully bait the Ukraine into doing something stupid.
2/20/22, 9:03 AM
Couldn't disagree more. Russia knows Ukraine is getting crushed economically, and there's no way to make bailing them out sustainable. Plus every day makes Joe Biden look like more of a tool and risks NATO rupturing entirely. Putin has good reason to keep baiting Ukraine. And the best part is, Zelensky threatening nuclear proliferation would be considered an excellent reason to attack by Russia and China- even if Ukraine simply doesn't have the delivery technology to launch a nuclear attack against Russia.
Don’t forget, this is a translation, and while it is not great rhetoric, it is coherent, and it lays out Ukraine’s situation for a European audience
of political figures and diplomats. It is full of references to events and agreements not covered by the American media, and thus a bit opaque for an American audience. What would effective Ukrainian rhetoric look like? Contrast this with Biden speech on Ukraine on Friday, which was relatively incoherent, confused and devoid of rhythm and emphasis. It also projected weakness and confusion, which the Russian’s desire. Zelensky’s speech was far superior to Biden’s, but I don’t know how it was received in Munich where positions are already established.
Zelensky also recently made an excellent point in another venue when he argued that sanctions need to be instituted right now before
the invasion to have any effect. Post invasion sanctions, he claimed, would be rather useless.
rehajm said...
I’m old enough to remember when we had to elect Joe Biden because Trump was going to start World War Three.
See you and raise to when we needed to elect Hillary Clinton to keep Trump's trigger off the red button.
Correction to above
Russia did not "take" Crimea. In an election widely regarded as fair, some large majority of crimeans voted to become part of Russia.
Why? Because ethnically they were "Russian" (Cyrillic alphabet, orthodox church, historic ties with Russia)
Not Ukrainian (Roman alphabet catholic church)
97% of crimeans voted to join Russia in an election with 86% turnout.
And somehow Russia "took" Crimea?
Cue the drum circles and all together now
"this is what democracy looks like
This is what democracy looks like
Repeat
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Oddly burisma has all sort of contacts in german chancelleries british parliament etc
If Ukraine were in NATO of course Russia would leave it alone. But Viktor Orban, BFF of Putin, Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon, would veto Ukraine joining.
Meanwhile back at the branch where the Allegheny and the Monongahela meet, comes news of Ukraine oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky ripping-off Ukraine's largest bank and the American Steel business with help from Deutsche Bank. Two dead steel mills, in Warren, OH and Mason County, WV were reopened as unsafe work places where money could be laundered until bankruptcy was declared.
So as a supposed enemy of Putin, this is the kind of Ukrainian that we are out to save?
BTW: Not necessarily related, but Nucor Corp selected Mason County, WV as the site of its new sheet mill, which the steel maker said will have about 800 full-time employees. West Virginia won out over other locations evaluated by the company in Pennsylvania and Ohio. As previously announced in September, the company said the mill is expected to cost $2.7 billion and produce three million tons of steel per year. The Hillbillies are paying, through whatever teeth they have left, to give tax credits to get this scrap metal reprocessing operation on the Ohio River near Point Pleasant, which will use electricity from AEP's Mountaineer coal-fired facility at Letart.
On a lighter note, all this talk about Churchillian rhetoric, and Zelenskiy not quite rising to the occasion, reminded me of the Key and Peele sketch about the man who spoke immediately after MLK delivered the "I Have a Dream" speech.
https://youtu.be/qcbO5Mvoo6E
According to Gadfly(D) - the People of Ukraine can eat shit. An planted oligarch story always hits the propaganda spot.
Good thing team crooks Biden, got their millions out of the corrupt ties he created with Ukraine and a few bad players, while the crooks Biden could. Make hay while the sun shines.
John Henry -Among other things, the election was invalid under the Ukraine Constitution because not all Ukrainians could vote on the question. Would you have a problem if the city of New Orleans voted to join France? Don't you think that should be a question for the entire country to decide?
btw, many of the Russians in Ukraine settled there after Stalin made room for them by starving to death millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomer.
Also - the election was not "widely regarded as fair." What is your source? The UN Security Council voted 13-1 to condemn the referendum. Gee, I wonder who the dissenter was?
Russia did not "take" Crimea. In an election widely regarded as fair, some large majority of crimeans voted to become part of Russia.
Why? Because ethnically they were "Russian" (Cyrillic alphabet, orthodox church, historic ties with Russia)
Not Ukrainian (Roman alphabet catholic church)
Jeez, Henry, get your facts straight — particularly when you're going on a rant concerning power struggles, and the excuses for same, ultimately perhaps leading to war between major nations.
Not Ukrainian (Roman alphabet catholic church)
Totally false. You're thinking Poland not Ukraine. Ukraine — centered on Kyiv [or Kiev] — was the historic origin of Russia, back in the 9th century. Kyiv became the capital and principal city of the empire of the Varangian Rus (i.e. “Russians”) — till the city was destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th century, whereupon the center of cultural “Russia” relocated elsewhere.
Notably, with regard to your (false) assertion above, Ukraine shares with Russia the cyrillic alphabet and the same deep, historic ties with the Orthodox church (older ties than Russia's actually).
Ukraine should be a success story, along the lines of Poland. For whatever reason, it has remained a basket case riven by the rivalries of competing oligarchs, overlaid over a history that has no common narrative - besides a general agreement that even the current chaos (almost entirely self created) is better than being run by the gang in Moscow. Anyone that suggests that the Catholic West Ukraine, who speak their own dialect and whose politics are still heavily influenced by Nazi sympathizers, have anything else in common with the heavily Russophile Orthodox East is simply kidding themselves. Obama (and Trump) were entirely right - Why on earth would we risk a war for the sake of this mess is beyond me. Do we really get much leverage in making a scene about Ukraine (or Taiwan - to use the China precedent our neocon geniuses are so concerned about)? I sincerely doubt it.
Ukraine should be a success story, along the lines of Poland. For whatever reason, it has remained a basket case riven by the rivalries of competing oligarchs, overlaid over a history that has no common narrative - besides a general agreement that even the current chaos (almost entirely self created) is better than being run by the gang in Moscow. Anyone that suggests that the Catholic West Ukraine, who speak their own dialect and whose politics are still heavily influenced by Nazi sympathizers, have anything else in common with the heavily Russophile Orthodox East is simply kidding themselves. Obama (and Trump) were entirely right - Why on earth would we risk a war for the sake of this mess is beyond me. Do we really get much leverage in making a scene about Ukraine (or Taiwan - to use the China precedent our neocon geniuses are so concerned about)? I sincerely doubt it.
Ukraine should be a success story, along the lines of Poland. For whatever reason, it has remained a basket case riven by the rivalries of competing oligarchs, overlaid over a history that has no common narrative - besides a general agreement that even the current chaos (almost entirely self created) is better than being run by the gang in Moscow. Anyone that suggests that the Catholic West Ukraine, who speak their own dialect and whose politics are still heavily influenced by Nazi sympathizers, have anything else in common with the heavily Russophile Orthodox East is simply kidding themselves. Obama (and Trump) were entirely right - Why on earth would we risk a war for the sake of this mess is beyond me. Do we really get much leverage in making a scene about Ukraine (or Taiwan - to use the China precedent our neocon geniuses are so concerned about)? I sincerely doubt it.
Is Ukraine unique? If the West stands aside while Russia takes over the rest of Ukraine, will that be the end of it? Or will it be the Sudenentland, then the rest of Czechoslovakia, then Poland? I'm speaking figuratively, of course. The territory the Russians would like to control, after swallowing Ukraine, could include Romania, Bulgaria, Moldavia. And?
4 years of Trump and Putin are the worst people on earth.,,, from the collective hivemind left.
Now the left stand shoulder to shoulder with Putin... the war monger.
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