"Nicole Schott, 25, of Germany, wore a costume with a massive cutout on one side of her waist. As she turned into a backbend while spinning on one skate, I snapped a few frames of how far she was bending. The shadows on her neck and along her stomach, to me, showed the amount of torque the athletes’ bodies endure and the strength it takes to accomplish these tricks."
Is there something creepy about fixating on the details of the bodies of very young women? The photograph frames the torso and excludes the face, the arms, and the legs — that is, most of what you usually look at when watching a figure skater.
Do you feel differently about that quote when you know that the photographer who wrote that is female? Does it matter that the skater herself chose — or her people chose for her — to wear "a massive cutout on one side of her waist"? Does a cutout say I want you to look right here, dictating fixating?
ADDED: Do you immunize yourself by thinking about it a lot — or by saying you thought about it a lot? Or does the thinking add to the creepiness? And what did you think? This particular photographer, a woman, says "I thought a lot about the implications of photographing women" within what I assume she expected us to imagine was a properly feminist framework.
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61 comments:
Ballet dancers are the first sex shows for made old men. Just add skating and pretend it is a sport.
It’s creepy to focus on the sexuality of teenage girls. It is not creepy to focus on the athleticism of athletes. To ignore the feats of young women because they are young women is its own form of discrimination.
Is there something creepy about fixating on the details of the bodies of very young women?
It depends. Are you a creep? A little girl at the beach in a skimpy two piece is just a little girl and not at all sexually exciting to a healthy adult male.
This is one of those implications of 'freedom to wear what you want'. Sometimes they choose things that one doesn't like.
I remember that some girl in the 60's fought hard to show off her legs so she could trade in on the 'youth currency' she had. Now all of a sudden, she is taking the part of the Vice Principal: Should she be wearing that?
The circle is complete.
It's a weird sort of puritan emoting that seems to be a part of progressive being.
The new puritans.
Sometimes a photograph is just a photograph.
FIDO wins the thread.
Unfortunately, events like this one that are judged by a group of judges invite skaters to introduce sexiness into their routines. It’s part of what I don’t like about such events. To answer your question, yes the revealing costumes makes me feel queezy about how the girls debase their skill with revealing costumes. The issue of mandatory costumes has come up before and the sport put in some restrictions so apparently the costume in the article passed the rules.
Does the costume dictate where to look? Sometimes. An orange string bikini (or men's plum-smuggler bathing suit) does not cover sexual characteristics, it decorates them and draws the eye there.
Hahaha - try surfing pictures of beautiful young surfer girls. The set up move when riding a wave is called a bottom turn - it provides g forced slingshot power to the underside of the lip on a wave. Surfer girls these gays wear butt thonged bikinis. When they lay their board over for a bottom turn it's all butt cheeks and neither parts. I see it live and in my face everyday as I paddle out through the lineup.
Google search: girl bottom turn surfing.
When “Equality” was the highest aspiration, the focus was young women’s inclusion in whatever endeavour men excelled at.
Now when “Safety” is the high, if not the highest aspiration, the focus is shifting.
Figure skating should move into performance.
It should stop pretending to be a sport.
The judges ruin everything.
I suppose if my job was to Photograph Female skaters, I'd "Focus on their bodies". This is so idiotic. Female figure skating is all about, Grace, femmine beauty and athletic ability. Its spans the spectrum.
And if someone was to suggest that Figure skaters be requried to wear modest unreveling costumes, the same people complaining about "female bodies on display" would be the first to object.
The figure skater in the torso photo is 25, not some prepubescent child.
Sports celebrate human athleticism and bodies; and pictures of athletes moving dynamically show us how their muscles work when in use, rather than repose. This works a lot better when the bodies are not covered by clothing.
I'm not sure one wants to say that a 25 y.o. skater is a "very young woman", but maybe.
Much of what might be criticized as objectification or hyper-sexualization of female bodies involves decidedly un-athletic looking super-models, Barbie dolls, etc., so looking at the athletic female form seems to counter that.
The shoulders of Ash Barty, or Maria Sakkari (or the entire physique of Stefi Cohen) do not suggest anorexia.
"Is there something creepy . . . Do you feel differently . . . Does it matter that the skater herself . . . Does a cutout say . . . Do you immunize yourself . . . Or does the thinking add . . . And what did you think?"
I'm thinking, women doing sports. I'm thinking, women are special. I'm thinking, OMG.
What you see is what you get. I read that snippet and focused on the parts dealing with torque and strength.
Is there something creepy about fixating on the details of the bodies of very young women? The photograph frames the torso and excludes the face, the arms, and the legs — that is, most of what you usually look at when watching a figure skater.
Take a look at some ancient Greek art.
The original Olympics were in large part a celebration of the aesthetics of the human body.
Creepy? Hah! You're trying to make it seem creepy because that's what you want.
Almost an inversion of Hamlet's "there is nothing either good or bad in this world but thinking makes it so."
Here, something that others could judge as objectively exploitative and bad is immunized just by asserting that one thought a lot about it before doing it.
"A little girl at the beach in a skimpy two piece is just a little girl and not at all sexually exciting to a healthy adult male."
That's rarely the point (although yes, it could attract a sexual predator, but again not the point).
Just because the child isn't engaging in sex acts doesn't mean it's cute to teach them to do certain dances that mimic sex acts to look or act like adults.
There is little to no reason for a child to wear a "skimpy" two piece bathing suit other than to look like a grown up.
And why do the grown ups wear them? To advertise their body. Certainly not for any performance reason.
It's sports photography. Why think about it more because the athletes are female?
I took her comment to mean she wants to keep her photos tasteful and in good taste. The photo in question has nothing salacious about it. It is a closeup of the woman's waist that shows her skin folding because of how far she has to bend to do her trick. No big deal.
"Blogger Big Mike said...
Is there something creepy about fixating on the details of the bodies of very young women?
It depends. Are you a creep? A little girl at the beach in a skimpy two piece is just a little girl and not at all sexually exciting to a healthy adult male.
2/21/22, 9:10 AM"
Exactly. And to a creep she is sexually exciting. Depends on who's doing the observing.
The circle is complete.
@FIDO, the circle is squared. That is to say, the little girl from the 1960s grew up to be a square.
The picture as presented isn't remotely sexual. However, folds of skin don't really denote strength.
Realize it may be croppped from wider frame.
Usually the sexy parts of these skating outfits is the behind.
Men figure skaters wear long pants and long sleeve shirts and women figure skaters wear next to nothing. My husband and I discussed it during the Olympics, especially the woman wearing the white outfit with the big cutout and we thought it was a sad that women still have to do that. Imagine a woman competing in long pants and long pants and what do you see? Probably not a winning performance.
100 years of hardcore feminism, and it is all leading right back to the figurative or literal burka. Progress!
Tale as old as time. I do recall, at some long-past Winter Olympics, althouse posting a picture of an ice skater with one leg up, with the picture perfectly framed on her crotch. But I couldn't find it in the archive. (I used to be much more in touch with the Olympics!)
Last Olympics, Schott created a big uproar by skating to music from Schindler's List. Remember that? I don't. I didn't watch that Olympics either.
Norway hasn't done well in Olympic figure skating since Sonja Henie. They have done very well at speed skating, though. They were a powerhouse in the early Olympics and haven't lost much ground since then, even as more countries entered the competition. Netherlands is also a power. Hans Brinker and all that.
Thanks, Gabriela, I'd forgotten all men and lesbians are insatiable sexual predators.
Yes, it is very creepy. I realized that long ago, and therefore stopped watching it.
Do you immunize yourself by thinking about it a lot — or by saying you thought about it a lot? Or does the thinking add to the creepiness? And what did you think?
Naval gazing
I was in First grade in 1960 — the year the Winter Olympics were held at Squaw Valley. Our teacher had us make drawings related to the games.
I drew a woman figure skater with the requisite short skating skirt.
Mrs. Mosher returned it to me with instructions to draw pants on her.
Trannie figure skaters will provide some relief from her anxieties. Though she won’t be able to say so out loud.
I've been doing competition swimming and coed workouts since I was 3-years old. The men's speedo's are just as revealing. No one cares, Although I sometimes have to tell the ladies that my eyes are up here.
'Exactly. And to a creep she is sexually exciting. Depends on who's doing the observing.'
Schrödinger?
'Men figure skaters wear long pants and long sleeve shirts and women figure skaters wear next to nothing.'
The patriarchy!!!
If you google “Gymnasty” you’ll see (or more accurately, hear) how National Lampoon satirized this back in 1977 — it was a freer time.
So close....you almost seduced me into clicking on a link to the NYT. But I stopped myself in time.
I used to wish for a nude division for the female skaters, but that was in the days of Katarina Witt (who I got to see naked in PLAYBOY eventually anyway). Nowadays the female figure skater all seem to be a bunch of skinny waifs and you'd have to be Joe Biden to find them hot.
People - not just creeps - appreciate feminine beauty and like looking at it. WHy do we always get these weird extremes? Either its lets see live sex on TV, or its why don't they wear a burka?
Your turn to curtsy, my turn to bow. We're all part of this Darwinian boogie. I suppose there's a subtext of creepiness to this, but if you're a fully articulated creep, there are other, more rewarding venues for creepiness. The Olympics probably only attracted Anthony Weiner's glancing attention.....I looked at the photo. Zero salacious content. It takes a kind of gift to photograph a young, attractive woman in a revealing outfit and have it devoid of such content....Any chance that young, attractive women wear outfits and perform feats that emphasize their grace and beauty because young, attractive women wish to emphasize their grace and beauty? And such outfits and feats turn the minds of young men into thoughts not strictly of the aesthetics of the performance?
I saw the photo and found nothing sexual whatsoever about it. So it IS weird and creepy that the photographer would even bring it up.
Do the slut walk.
The fine line between art and pornography? Between dignity and opportunity? Between agency and indoctrination? #HateLovesAbortion
Know your memes!
The use of the word "implications" by the photog may be a sly reference to an infamously creepy scene from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" which became for a while a meme about doing wrong. Warning: creepy creepy creepy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE
The money sports for women are those sports where they look pretty and graceful. Maybe good looking women know what they're doing when they take up sports like figure skating and gymnastics as opposed to developing their skills as a shot putter.
This particular photographer, a woman, says "I thought a lot about the implications of photographing women" within what I assume she expected us to imagine was a properly feminist framework.
I would think a properly feminist framework would include underarm and leg hair.
The woman in the photo is 25. Very young? Ancient by standard of women's singles.
I'm focusing on it because the photographer focused on it. What do you think "implications" was supposed to refer to?!
"Tale as old as time. I do recall, at some long-past Winter Olympics, althouse posting a picture of an ice skater with one leg up, with the picture perfectly framed on her crotch. But I couldn't find it in the archive."
Thanks for linking back to that, but the video doesn't work for me. None of the old Bloggingheads video displays on my browser anymore (and by old, I mean pre-YouTube).
"Is there something creepy about fixating on the details of the bodies of very young women?"
Hmmmm... It does sound like something a heterosexual male might do. Or, I guess, a homosexual female. So you're asking if human sexuality is creepy? Sure. Sure it is.
"...a properly feminist framework."
...made from linguini.
I suspect the oldest althouse videos are likely Flash videos.
but! but! but
the 15 year old CHOSE to sneak in the bar, and CHOSE to wear that tight skirt, and CHOSE to go home with me!
it's been my observation, that That argument doesn't carry much water... when she's a MINOR
Not That gilbar would personally know
15'll get you 20
Howie,
To be fair, they don't often see Elmo speedos.
Just the week before last I was reading an article, in one of the fascist press (Vanity, Atlantic, NYT or something) about a woman who likes to go watch ballet.
Her husband is not a fan, she says but is always willing to accompany here. He doesn't care about the dancing but does enjoy the "cameltoe" and the occasional wardrobe malfunction.
Apparently not as rare as one might think. I thought I might find a link to the article. A quick Duck Duck Go for +ballet +cameltoe + husband turned up about a full page of ballet porn. Probably more but I didn't go further.
Sites like this one:
https://wankgod.com/ballet-pussy-slip/
Now I am wondering about all the women (and men) who enjoy watching nubile young girls leaping around on the ice. Is it really for the entertainment (it is not a "sport") or are there darker, perhaps even subconscious, reasons for watching.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
The feminist implications of knowing you are appealing to the viewers' sexuality and sexual fantasies and at the same not admitting that you are manipulating people with your attractiveness and you are aware of what you are doing? Yeah, that gets complicated if you insist on seeing yourself as a victim of "the male gaze." I don't see how the photographer is anything more than a cog in the wheel of this production.
But there's nothing to be guilty about -- we're human beings and sexuality is part of our DNA. There's nothing more beautiful than a beautiful, fit and healthy female body.
I didn't watch much of these Olympics but what struck me most was how harsh the ex-pro figure skater commentators were toward the 15 year old Russian, Kamila Valieva. IMO they knew she knew what was going on with her performance enhancement drugs, i.e., that she wouldn't have been able to accomplish her athletic feats without that, although they didn't come out and say that. They were just vocally outraged that she had been allowed to perform after she flunked the doping test while other athletes played by the rules. In athletics there are still standards of right and wrong, it's not all about the show. Still, from my spectator's POV her short program performance was extraordinarily magical and a thing of beauty. I was glad I got to see that.
IOW, seeing these beautiful bodies in motion may be wrong on some moral level and could be viewed as soft porn, but their artfulness can also be inspiring.
Do you feel differently about that quote when you know that the photographer who wrote that is female?
No. She could be bisexual, or a lesbian
Heck, she could just be a pornographer, shooting whatever pictures will make her money.
There are plenty of women who are creepy to other females, just like there are plenty of men who are creepy to other males
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