January 5, 2022

"Working with information from online sleuths who style themselves as 'Sedition Hunters,' the authorities have made more than 700 arrests — with little sign of slowing down."

I'm trying to read "Prosecutors Move Quickly on Jan. 6 Cases, but Big Questions Remain/In the year since the assault on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob, more than 700 people have been arrested, with little public indication from the Justice Department of how high the investigation might reach" in The New York Times. 

"Sedition Hunters"?! That stopped me. What is sedition? If you Google, the top article you'll see is "‘Sedition’: A Complicated History/As a mob stormed the Capitol, the word 'sedition' was on many people’s lips. Its force is clear, but its echoes across American history are more complex and ambiguous" in the NYT, from January 7, 2021, one day after the mob scene in the Capitol. 

The word "sedition" was on many people’s lips — You know the "many people" and how they talk — how they talk and how they've hunted, assiduously, for a big revolutionary movement among the Trumpsters of America. They've been saying "sedition" for a year, and what have they found? 

Yes, 700+ people have been arrested for the things we saw happening before our eyes on January 6th, but that didn't take a sophisticated investigation to discover. A big outdoor protest turned into an indoor event. They broke in where they weren't allowed. That was as bad as it was, but it ended that day. What else was there? Apparently there's "little indication" of anything else, but who knows "how high the investigation might reach"? 

Today's NYT article is a big slog, because it won't simply say the hunt for some higher level offense has come up empty. There's "no public indication of the degree to which" the Justice Department might have something more. 

There is an admission that the government is struggling in processing the existing cases:
Overworked courts have tried to balance the laborious exchange of discovery materials with speedy trial protections and to manage the bleak conditions at Washington’s local jails where some defendants are being held without bail. They have also faced a fundamental, underlying tension: how to mete out justice on an individual level to hundreds of defendants who together helped form a violent mob.

In other words, the usual criminal procedure is followed. What's the "tension"? That in the United States, criminal defendants are individuals, with individual rights? What is that in tension with? The desire for a mass trial, a kangaroo court, a lynching? 

Or is it just frustration that these cases — seen at the individual level — are just so small?

[B]ricklayers, grandmothers, college students, artists, church leaders and long-haul truckers who, by and large, have admitted to little more than illegally entering the Capitol... have [mostly] avoided incarceration, sentenced to probation or stints of home confinement. Others have received only modest sentences, ranging from a few weeks to a few months. In court, those accused of minor crimes have almost always expressed remorse, saying their behavior was foolish, embarrassing or out of character. Some have broken into tears or, in one case, physically collapsed. Others have vowed never to attend a political rally again.

236 comments:

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Spiros said...

Prosecutors have way too much discretion! The right wing nutcases won't enforce bigamy laws in Utah or laws criminalizing gun possession everywhere else. And progressive prosecutors are straight up lunatics. Here in Chicago, Kim Fox has declared that existing criminal statutes against shoplifting, trespassing, assault, etc., no longer have any force whatsoever in the City (or, at least, African-American teenage males are excused from compliance).

This is straight up bullsh*t.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

jim5301 said...
An outdoor protest turned into an indoor protest. "That was as bad as it was" Are you fucking serious Ann? Tell that to the over 150 officers injured that day.

Your source for that bullshit claim is?

Note: "I scraped my fingers while beating on trapped people" does not equal "injured"

Some have not fully recovered.
Ah, the wonderful "some". Names, specifics, links proving you're not full of shit

Oh and a handful of people died including several cops who committed suicide.
The people who died were murdered by the cops. Like Ashli Babbit

The mob riot lasted almost six hours.
Really? Your source for this timeline is?

They would have killed elected officials if they had the chance don't you think?
It's very clear that you don't think.
Since not a single one of the "rioters" was arrested with a gun, people who actually think know they weren't there to kill anyone

I assume you have watched videos so I conclude that you are intentionally lying to engrain yourself with your right-wing audience.
You mean like the videos of the people wandering around inside, , keeling inside the lines? You mean like the videos of the cops telling people it was ok to go in?

Yes, we HAVE seen those videos, which is how we know you're full of shit.

But beating the shit out of someone with a flag stick is no different than breaking and entering?
You talking about the BLM riots there? Oh, wait, those were "mostly peaceful."

There's lots of video of the cops beating up people with their nightsticks. There's video of a cop calming murdering Ashli Babbit.

You got a video of someone beating up a cop on J6 with a flag stick? Do share

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Freder Frederson said...
Nobody is being held without charges. And of the 700 charged, about 70 are being held in jail. You have a valid argument, why ruin it by exageratting?

https://shipwreckedcrew.substack.com/p/government-commits-prosecutorial
So long as you're telling the judge "oh, we cannot go to trial yet, because we don't have all the evidence", you haven't field the charges

> Typically, Freder does not read his own links.

Typically, Michael K reads until he finds a sentence he can quote out of context and claims I am bullshitting.

Bzzt, wrong. I read the entire article. Every single person they mentioned in teh article was already convicted.. There was nothing in there about people being held for non-violent crimes without bail

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Douglas B. Levene said...
@Greg: Apparently you have no clue about how to use hypotheticals to probe legal arguments. I’ll recast it to avoid the elements you find offensive.

So, try this hypothetical:
Suppose that at some future date, the Democrats control both houses of Congress. There’s a presidential election and the Republican candidate wins by a small margin. The Democratic candidate calls on his Democratic colleagues in the House and Senate to reject the electors for the Republican candidate, throw the election into the House of Representatives, and elect him as president on the grounds that “the Republicans are racist, evil oppressors of minorities and the poor. We can’t allow white supremacy back into the White House.”
In the 2020 election, Trump won, the Democrats stole it, with Democrat Governors, Secs of State, Election boards, and judges unilaterally re-writing election law to take out fraud prevention measures.

Then they used all the words you used to justify it, and to keep the higher Courts from overturning their steal.

As I read the Electoral Count Act, that would be perfectly lawful. I would also call it a coup by means of law inasmuch as the loser in the election is seizing power from the winner. Do you agree?

I do not agree that that's legal under the ECA. I do agree it would be a coup to try it. I expect that anyone who did try it would be decorating a lamp post in short order

If so, do you think we should fix the ECA to prevent that from happening? If not, why not?
No, because I don't trust any likely to be elected US Congress not to screw things up worse while doing their "fix"

Trump didn't have to make up any tall tales about election fraud. We saw Democrat "vote counters" block Trump poll watchers from actually monitoring the poll workers. We saw Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, and Fulton counties stop counting election hight while there were still ballots to count, kick out the poll watchers, kick out the press, and then "discover" the next day that they had just enough ballots to flip their States to Biden.

None of these "counters" had performed the basic check of letting us know exactly how many ballots they had on hand left to count, thus letting them add as many ballots as they wanted, with no one there to monitor and block their fraud.

If you can't see the problems in that, you have a serious problem.

Iman said...

Howard @12:26PM…

That drawing is difficult to make out… my guess is it’s you blowing Popeye… correct?

Iman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

Haven't the Democrats been working for years to get state legislatures to ignore the will of their own votes and to send electors based on the national count even though legislatures in other states have zero control over how, for example, California counts its votes?

How is that different than sending election issues back to the legislatures to be resolved?

farmgirl said...

Drago- Noooo!
What is it w/that name that equates it w/control??
Ugh.

… even if the shoe does fit Howard.

Joe Smith said...

'Fine Yancey. I worked in sewers and toxic waste dumps my entire career.'

This actually explains a lot...

Lewis Wetzel said...

Chuck said...

It's distressing to see how little "liberals" care about freedom of speech

If you distrust the motives of the high minded, you will seldom be disappointed.

1/5/22, 4:34 PM

Do you consider yourself high minded, Chuck?

Lewis Wetzel said...

I am interested in the mystery of the DC capitol cops who suicided shortly after January 6. I want details. What are their names? What was their mental health history? What parts did they play in the riot?
We know all about the MAGA rioters on January 6, almost nothing about the cops involved. What are their politics? Relevant experience? It must be a sweet job -- why were the people who were given these positions hired over their competition?
If they don't want to tell you, that's what you need to know.

Michael K said...

Poor Freder. Try to at least read the links you post. Apparently Inga has found better things to do.

walter said...

Blogger Greg The Class Traitor
We saw Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, and Fulton counties stop counting
--
That was the multistate toilet leak!

AOC was especially frightened..because she's so hot.

Rabel said...

Et Tu, Ted?

Drago said...

farmgirl: "Drago- Noooo!
What is it w/that name that equates it w/control??
Ugh."

I didn't use it, the political reporters did.

I'm simply interested in the article.

Historically, entitled white women have been portrayed by critics by calling them "becky's" and a few others, but I can't recall them without doing a bit of a refresher.

Bottom line: there will always be some name to indicate an entitled white woman. That appears to just be the way it is.

Drago said...

Rabel: "Et Tu, Ted?"

Ted and his advisors have clearly determined that Ted, based on 2016 alone, will never get the votes of the populist wing of the republican party base. That vote belongs to Trump or DeSantis.

Step 1 to secure that "lane" for the primary: move aggressively to box out Nikki Haley and a few other establishment republican morons who don't have a chance but might pull a percent or two like the idiot Kasich (the coming 2024 version of Jeb!). Consolidate the votes of those also rans and then use that potential 10 to 15% to hang in long enough to get up to 25% of the primary vote and hopefully, grab the brass ring (republican nomination) in the end.

It's Cruz's only real play at this point.

Unfortunately for Ted, that populist wing is anywhere from 70% to 85% of the republican base now.

This ain't your daddy's 2016 republican party anymore.....

farmgirl said...

Lewis, this has bother me greatly, as well. There have been 4 or 5 Capitol cops that have committed self- murder. It’s such a drastic choice- a question would be what do they all have in common besides the job? Such a loss. If one is on the right side of the law- then why?

farmgirl said...

Drago- I wish it was still Becky’s job…

David135 said...

"Sedition hunters?". It wasn't Mao, Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot who killed millions of their own citizens. Mass killings and other persecutions were supported and carried out by zealous neighbors, intolerant of those who didn't "get with the program". They were motivated by no greater offense than that. Never forget: Even among our fellow Americans, the same ratio exists of those who'd do the same if conditions permitted.

effinayright said...

Achilles:

This is garbage.

>>>>>>>>>>do you deny it is a true statement? Do you need DOJ stats rubbed in your face:

If white people were put in the same situation as the population of South Side Chicago or Detroit or New York the statistic would even up a lot.

>>>>>>>>>>who put the population of South Side Chicago in the same situation, Achilles? White people? Republicans?

>>>>>>>>>>>Wanna 'splain why urban black people didn't commit such levels of crime back before the Great Society, Welfare Reform and the passage of the Civil Rights Acts?

SNORT

effinayright said...

Hey, Achilles, is this guy a racist troll, too?

Pastor Corey Brooks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdwGtNM2EC4

Achilles said...

effinayright said...

>>>>>>>>>>who put the population of South Side Chicago in the same situation, Achilles? White people? Republicans?

White democrats and republicans. Mostly democrats.

The aristocracy isn't racist.

They just use racism to get what they want.

And people like you play right into their hands.

Bilwick said...

Recently this blog posed the question, "if this were 1776, would you be a Loyalist?" If you're a "liberal" (i.e., tax-happy, coercion-addicted, power-tripping State fellator), there's only one honest answer to that question. I wonder if the "liberals" and other statists raising a hue and cry about "sedition" are planning to celebrate July 4th this year, and if so, what the heck it is they think they're celebrating. This country was founded on sedition.

Butkus51 said...

I always love it when YOU people (I'm talking to you Howard) say that the parties "flipped".

You say 1980ish. So Kennedys voters were Republicans, and Nixons were Dems? Barry Goldwater wooed dems? What was McCarthy?

And FDR was a bigot. But we knew that.

Butkus51 said...

Blacks are on the south side of chicago because they reached chicago and said, "were here"

And then Daley built some nice projects for them.

Drago said...

farmgirl: "Drago- I wish it was still Becky’s job…"

If it came to a vote, the Karen's would lose to the Becky's:

https://www.everything-birthday.com/name/f/Rebecca

https://www.everything-birthday.com/name/f/karen

My condolences.

With any kind of luck, the "Karen" meme will be changed to what, by all rights, should be the name to describe this sort of behavior: "Howard".

Yancey Ward said...

"Do you consider yourself high minded, Chuck?"

Important fact- that is isn't "Chuck" you critiqued. It is "chuck", a completely different and worthwhile commenter.

Biff said...

The NYT says:

"Others have vowed never to attend a political rally again."

Mission accomplished. Democracy has been saved!

Wait...what??

Gahrie said...

I always love it when YOU people (I'm talking to you Howard) say that the parties "flipped".

You say 1980ish.


The Black vote switched from Republican to Democrat in the early 1930's when the Democratic Party was still enforcing Jim Crow and segregation, and Southern Democrats were lynching uppity Black folk, in the South. There is no real explanation for this, FDR didn't even bribe them with the New Deal.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Douglas Levine

The answer, as I understand, is that the AUSA’s have informed the judges that this is an extraordinary situation, and had them waive both bail and Speedy Trial. Remember, a majority of the judges were Dem nominated - though at least one of them were Rep nominated. In any case, the judges likely read WaPo as their hometown paper. For the most part, they accepted the arguments by the FJB/Garland AUSAs.

At least some of the judges though seem fed up now with this nonsense. They haven’t seen any charges of sedition yet, nor really, much in terms of violent felonies. Just a lot of trespassing charges, as well as conspiracy to commit non violent protests. Recently, they found out that these political prisoners, being held for de minimus crimes, without bail, were being held in deplorable conditions. Far worse than we have for real terrorists at GitMo. Moreover, the prosecutors have excuse after excuse why they haven’t even able to take the cases to trial, and why they aren’t able to respond to defense requests for evidence (including the 14k hours of video they are sitting on). Also, the FBI is hiding the identities, and whereabouts of its myriad of agents, CIs, etc., and why aren’t the most egregious of them being pursued. I think that the deplorable conditions that these political prisoners are being held in, is what seems to be starting some of these judges in reevaluating their position. In any case, I suspect that the conspiracy between the FBI, Capital Police, and FJB/Garland DOJ prosecutors is getting ready to unravel. The judges have been repeatedly lied to by the prosecutors, and while they typically, in the past at least, have trusted the federal prosecutors and FBI agents, this seems to be wearing thin.

We shall see.

Douglas B. Levene said...

@ Bruce Hayden: You misspelled my name. But your response is helpful. Under the Speedy Trial Act, the judge can extend the period for trial without the defendant's consent, upon motion by the Government, if the court finds that on"the ends of justice served by taking such action outweigh the best interest of the public and the defendant in a speedy trial." The court is required to set forth either orally or in writing its reasons for such finding. The statute also lists what constitutes an acceptable reason for delaying a trial over the defendant's objection. See generally 18 U.S.C. section 2161(h)(7). That means there must be a public record, either a written order or a transcript, of any orders extending the time for trial. I'd be curious to know what they say. It's good news that the courts seem to be moving past the initial shock presented by the attack and are starting to look at the defendants just as individual criminal defendants with the same rights as any others, which is what judges should always do. I'm not familiar with the federal bail rules so I'll pass on that. What I find most disturbing is the claim that some defendants are still being held without charge. I don't understand what the lawful basis for that would be, see Fed. R. Cr. Pr. 5, and wonder (a) if it's true, and (b) if it is true, if anyone has made a habeas motion on behalf of such defendants.

Douglas B. Levene said...

Sorry, it's 18 U.S.C. Sec. 3161(h)(7).

Douglas B. Levene said...

@Greg: To clarify one point, I read the ECA to permit the type of "coup" I described, but I think that the ECA is unconstitutional since the constitution gives the electoral college and not the congress the power to elect the president. So I hope that the Congress either repeals it or amends it to remove the possibility I described.

Nicholas said...

For those going to trial, I assume the defence will subpoena Ray Epps as a witness? What will the Feds do then?

Narr said...

In the South, there were mere pockets of B/black voters in a sea of racist Dems, and W/white Republicans were a negligible factor in most areas.

I heard Benjamin Hooks say many times that he and his friends voted for Nixon in 1960, when the Republicans were the Party of Lincoln. In Memphis the B/black voting bloc had some clout, even nationally, in the Republican party.

The alliance between urban B/blacks and Dems arose the traditional way, when city bosses of the North (almost all D) began coopting the new arrivals from the Southland the way they used to do with the European masses decades before. In Memphis, the Crump (D) Machine delivered the W/white vote for FDR, just like the open and notorious racists like Bilbo in Mississippi, and the New Deal goodies were carefully administered separately and unequally.

Democrats all the way down.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Douglas B. Levene said...
@Greg: To clarify one point, I read the ECA to permit the type of "coup" I described, but I think that the ECA is unconstitutional since the constitution gives the electoral college and not the congress the power to elect the president. So I hope that the Congress either repeals it or amends it to remove the possibility I described.

You have more trust for Congress's competency and honest than I do.

But, I answered your question, so are going to answer mine?

To repeat:
Trump didn't have to make up any tall tales about election fraud. We saw Democrat "vote counters" block Trump poll watchers from actually monitoring the poll workers. We saw Milwaukee, Detroit, Philly, and Fulton counties stop counting election hight while there were still ballots to count, kick out the poll watchers, kick out the press, and then "discover" the next day that they had just enough ballots to flip their States to Biden.

None of these "counters" had performed the basic check of letting us know exactly how many ballots they had on hand left to count, thus letting them add as many ballots as they wanted, with no one there to monitor and block their fraud.

So, why should we consider that a valid election result?

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