They get an interesting interview out of her anyway — "Temple Grandin Wants Us to Think Differently About Kids Who Think Differently" — but it starts off incredibly awkwardly:
During the pandemic, there has been a lot of discussion about who’s vaccinated and who’s not, and historically, a fear of autism is one of the things that antivaxxers — I will make only one comment: I have two Pfizers and a booster and a flu shot. That’s all I’m going to say.
Well, if it’s OK, I have another couple of questions about vaccines and autism, and you can choose if you’ll answer or not. That’s a subject where that’s pretty much all I’m going to say. I am glad that I have my vaccinations. I don’t have to worry about going to the hospital. I’ll leave it at that.
In the past, you’ve expressed openness about people who felt skeptical about vaccines because of — No comment.
Is it your understanding that the concern that certain parents have with vaccines is — No comment.
OK, I’ll move on for now...
There's a footnote at "In the past, you’ve expressed openness about people who felt skeptical about vaccines":
In a 2013 interview with The Times, when Grandin was asked about mothers of autistic children who suspect links between vaccines and autism, she replied, “I have talked to maybe five or six of those mothers, and that’s the reason I don’t pooh-pooh it.”
The interviewer David Marchese moves on to some other things, but comes
back to what I assume is the whole reason for choosing to interview this well-known public figure now:
There are specific studies debunking the idea that vaccines have a causal relation to autism, A 2011 analysis of more than 1,000 research articles concluded that there are no links between immunization and autism, right? No comment. No comment. No comment.
You don’t think it could be useful for people to hear your opinion? No comment. No comment.
I got it. You better get it. Because I’m not discussing it.
Have you gotten in trouble for talking about this subject before? No comment. I’ve had my two Pfizer shots and my booster. If they require a fourth shot, I’ll be first in line, thank you.
Again Marchese retreats into other material, and after a while — showing amazing doggedness — he tries again:
I realize that maybe earlier I should have just asked this question bluntly: Do you believe vaccines can cause autism? I’m not discussing that. I will give you one thing about vaccinations: I listened to the news, and a doctor was complaining about having heart-attack patients die because they could not get into the emergency room because the hospital was so full of unvaccinated Covid people. And then I talked to this person that was not vaccinated about, you know, maybe all these people filling up this hospital killed some heart-attack patients. He said, I never thought about that. That I will talk about.
But why not vaccines and autism? I don’t want to talk about that.
I’m curious about your reluctance. I’m not discussing it. OK. There are certain things I don’t talk about because it interferes with stuff I care about. It’s that simple.
He really wanted her to get into that. I am going to guess that he had an idea for an article that it might be possible to write: Maybe Grandin would give people reason not to dread autism and perhaps to advise us that it ought to be understood in a positive light, as part of the rainbow of human diversity.
But, good lord, how many times should a reporter pressure the interviewee to talk about a subject she's put off limits? It's interesting to print the entire sequence, so that we, the readers, live through the experience of a reporter not taking no for an answer.
I've been interviewed a few times by a reporter who kept coming back to something he seemed to already believe and wanted me to say, so I like the transparency! And Marchese never comes out and states what — if anything — he's trying to get her to say, so this interview is much better than what I've gone through.
Posts
76 comments:
I don’t have to worry about going to the hospital
Yah you do…
I mean what better endorsement for the tenth booster shot than a most interesting autistic person, right?
To be fair to the reporter Grandin commented after her no comments, so the badgering works…
"Yah you do…"
About as much as you have to worry about an ice block from an airplane toilet crashing into your bedroom.
If only reporters were so determined to get answers to important questions...
On another note, is there an attack article in the making about that person who had a heart attack and couldn't get into the ER because of the COVID patients and how maybe he wouldn't have had a heart attack if he lived a healthier lifestyle? Or is it only the unvaccinated who have their choices so determinedly criticized?
I have a friend who refuses the vaccine, who is on her second case of COVID, who is getting sicker every day, and who refuses, so far, to get medical attention because she doesn't want to "be on record." Hopefully she will get better and have better immunity after this than she would have had with the vaccine. I really hope so.
Don't conflate general anti vaxers with anti COVID Vaxers. Most people against taking the experimental covid inoculation which obviously works so very well (he said sarcastically) have had many other ESTABLISHED vaccines. There is a major distinction there.
Jersey Fled said...
"Yah you do…"
About as much as you have to worry about an ice block from an airplane toilet crashing into your bedroom
Well that’s cute and certainly seems more likely in New Jersey, but the ‘vaccines keep you out of the hospital’ is the meme from the Spring of 2021, not now. Not even the CDC is still wheeling that one out. I was also told to look at the data. It’s difficult, but by their own reporting hospital ERs are seeing plenty of vaccinated people.
Temple Grandin shows how the pro’s handle interviews. Most enjoyable.
As for the reporter’s conflation of (1) those reluctant to get real vaccines (against hepatitis, polio, measles, etc etc) because of some baseless idea about autism with (2) the complicated mass of people comprising (a) those skeptical about (by definition uncertain) safety and (demonstrably declining) efficacy of the Wu Flu “vaccine” and (b) those declining the “vaccine” because they have acquired immunity and (c) those declining it for other, less-rational reasons? The reporter was lazy and dishonest for failing to lay out properly the terms of the debate. Temple Grandin was smart to avoid his traps, and not give him any help. Just a summary slap-down. Well done!
But, good lord, how many times should a reporter pressure the interviewee to talk about a subject she's put off limits?
Needs to be a law that after you refuse them twice it becomes open season. Initially you can only shoot to wound, but after they make a couple more attempts you get to go in for the kill.
"It’s difficult, but by their own reporting hospital ERs are seeing plenty of vaccinated people."
Just got a newsletter from the Cooper University Healthcare System which operates hospitals and clinics in the Delaware Valley area. My nephew is a doctor there.
And I quote ...
"While hospitalizations in our region, and at Cooper, are at an all time high, those that have received a COVID-19 booster shot represent fewer than 1% of those who are hospitalized due to Covid-19. In addition, people over 50 who have had their booster shot are 10 times less likely to be hospitalized."
tim in vermont said...
I have a friend who refuses the vaccine, who is on her second case of COVID...
who refuses, so far, to get medical attention because she doesn't want to "be on record.
What makes her (you?) think that she's 'on her second case of COVID'?
Wishing doesn't make it so
If Temple was chosen for an interview solely because she’s a “person living w/autism” (PC worded) that’s an embarrassment to the NYTs. And, I’ll bet Temple knew it, too. That extra sense thing people obtain working w/bovines.
I wonder the time frame of when her (unvaccinated)friend who had the heart attack- was, exactly. After the 1st shots? The 2nd? The “booster”?
Vaccines are sound practice in husbandry. Organic farms rely heavily on vaccines since all antibiotics are illegal to use- we can use them, we have to sell the animal immediately if we do. It saves the life and recoups some value.
I would wager Temple refused to comment b/c she may receive grant $$ or be sponsored somehow by a pharmaceutical company. She must do clinics- I know she teaches at a University in Colorado- research is usually granted. I wonder what she thinks of these Covid vaccines being mRNAs?
Thank you for sharing- Temple is right up my (feed)alley :0)
Tim- a trip for IV fluids would really help your friend. If not- she may be a statistic regardless…
Q: Surely, Temple, you have some thoughts about vaccines and autism?
A: No comment. And stop calling me Shirley!
"Most people against taking the experimental covid inoculation which obviously works so very well (he said sarcastically)...."
But it does work well, (he said sincerely).
People who are unvaccinated worry about being mistreated once they go into treatment. My mom, who I've tried to persuade to get vaccinated, was told she was ineligible for monoclonal antibodies unless she was vaccinated. What incentive does she have to go to the doctor once she gets sick?
My mom has a serious health condition because of a doctor's mistreatment. I understand why she's skeptical. How many other people are like her?
Why would they ask a non-medico questions about vaccines. It's as if they have an agenda or something.
I notice our Mayor was in DC last week at a Mayor's Conference. The Conference I'm at this week is all remote. Politicians get to mingle with each other during a pandemic. Scientists do not. The Press will not mention this.
@Jersey
Not in Canada: https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1483661997271040001?cxt=HHwWgoCyobmug5cpAAAA
He's been posting on this during the Omicron wave: In Canada, it is still true that an unvaxxed person is at considerably higher risk than a vaxxed person. But, the pressure on hospitals and ICUs is almost all from vaxxed people; there are a lot more of them there, especially at the ages where they are at more risk. They just way outnumber them. Unvaxxed are a very small part of the problem, comparatively.
Why is the NYTimes seeking to report on people’s vaccine opinions? Should we leave that to epidemiologists, Researcersand the like? I find her cow work interesting, but why would I care about her vaccine views?
I'd never heard of her and looked her up. Seems like an interesting person.
Pretty interesting person. Masters and doctorate in animal science, 60 published papers. Autism doesn't seem to have held her back much. Though coming from lots of money is always helpful.
The reporter seems like a dick.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
Wince @ 8:11: "...Shirley."
Go to your room!
"showing amazing doggedness".
At this point I'd call it thickheadedness.
The other 'flag' for me is anytime a reporter (or news reader) uses the word 'debunked' making their point, such as it is, that this is a scientific fact because of, more or less, poll numbers. The problem is that in actual science, information is constantly being tested. Or should be. Nothing should be left to 'consensus'. Nothing.
It took one Copernicus to change our entire universe, all the while being told his view had been 'debunked'.
But, good lord, how many times should a reporter pressure the interviewee to talk about a subject she's put off limits?
I don't understand why all the badgering is in the article. Why not just a short summary?
I think they want to talk about vaccines as much as possible (even magnifying non-answers) because they want to fight on that hill rather than any of the other available hills. Republicans will regret it if they accept the invitation to fight on Vaccine Hill this year.
Jersey Fled @ 8:02: "...those that have received a COVID-19 booster shot represent fewer than 1% of those who are hospitalized due to Covid-19. In addition, people over 50 who have had their booster shot are 10 times less likely to be hospitalized."
Can we get the relevant numbers here? "...fewer than 1% of those who are hospitalized due to Covid-19" and so how many were in fact hospitalized with Covid-19? And not just "WITH" Covid-19 but FROM Covid-19?
We have been told the case count is a big deal, watch the case count, OMG, it's going up and up. Well, the more you test, the more you find. But a more reliable count is of hospitalizations, not just a positive test reading. And then we find that hospitalization has been (forgive me) doctored, because they test everybody coming in the door (for gunshot wounds and alcohol poisoning and cancer, you name it) and guess what, they find a lot of incidental positives. So really we should look only at the subset of those admitted to the hospital who are being treated only or primarily for Wu Flu. Can we get that number? And never mind hospitalizations, how about the deaths? Even that number has been contaminated by the CDC's change in record keeping protocols, but it's worth knowing anyway, as a rough index of lethality from omicron versus Delta etc.
Sorry to be a nerd but I'm tired of being tricked with statistical games that make three-card monte look like honest work.
I am going out on a limb here that the interviewer believes the myth created by British doctor Andrew Wakefield in 1998 that vaccines cause autism by getting the our country’s most well known autistic person to speculate and validate Wakefield’s already debunked claim. This myth is being kept alive by anti-vaxxers Robert Kennedy Jr, Jennie McCarthy, and Jim Carrey (btw, Kennedy and Carrey are hard core liberals, not conservatives like the left wants the public to think that anti-vaxxers are). Our youngest child is autistic. After he was born, Mrs. Scott and I were hesitant about vaccinating him after we were cautioned by our pediatrician about what Wakefield’s “research” had shown the year before our son was born. We vaccinated him anyway. When our son was diagnosed as autistic at age 5, we second guessed our decision. However, we were vindicated when Wakefield was debunked and I was am still very angry at him and his anti-vaxxer followers that to this day keep this lie alive. We now feel that our son’s autism is genetic as other family members have since been diagnosed as being autistic. This reporter, in my opinion, is still trying to keep the lie alive by badgering Temple Grandin for an affirmative response after she said “No Comment” repeatedly to different iterations of the question.
Yes- see conclusions of ‘experts’ but not the data…
Not that it wouldn’t be interesting to examine along with data from other hospitals. It would also be constructive to weigh those ‘c times’ scare numbers against data on comorbidity, vaccine damage in low risk groups, reduced mortality and illness associated with omicron…but there it is…
The reporter sounds much more autistic than Grandin: single-minded and monomaniacal.
Obviously the woman doesn't want take parents with autism to feel bad about their vaccine ignorance. Apparently she doesn't care about the feewings of Trumper antivaxxers.
The problem for those who are solely anti-COVID vaccine wanting to distinguish themselves as separate & apart from the crew who are rabidly against all vaccines comes when loathsome zealots like Robert F Kennedy Jr. start organizing anti-mandate protests and make themselves the face of their movement. I think mandates are stupid and completely counter-productive. But allowing RFK Jr and his ilk to slither in and hijack that cause is a major mistake.
As for Temple Grandin not wanting to touch this reporter's question - maybe she's just sick of people trying to co-opt her as a poster child for whatever hobbyhorse they happen to be riding?
The reporter sounds much more autistic than Grandin: single-minded and monomaniacal.
That would have been a funny retort.
@Owen
So really we should look only at the subset of those admitted to the hospital who are being treated only or primarily for Wu Flu. Can we get that number?
I wondered a lot about that too, and I am also unwilling to accept at face value the official numbers. That's why I want to see the numbers of excess deaths from all causes. Those numbers get around this problem and many others. I love nothing more than to catch officials lying about facts, but unfortunately, there have been about a million excess deaths in the US over the past two years. Covid is real and its a killer and the vaccines reduce deaths. A lot of other things are disputable: lockdowns, mask efficacy, vaccines for young people, etc, but not those three things.
There’s a blood/brain barrier that isn’t fully intact until after the age of 2, I think. The previous interview of 2013 said Temple didn’t poopoo the idea of vaccine prompted autism. Idk- we were vaccinated before we entered school, so that barrier was formed. The rules changed on age of vaccinations?
That’s what makes this MRNA so sketchy, to me. It moves everywhere in the body. It’s not a “normal “ vaccine.
But- I’m not a doctor, so WDIK…
Incidentally, Sen Johnson currently holding an interesting hearing...that will be memory-holed immediately.
Why be so polite? You told him you don't want to talk about it, he keeps repeating the question. Tell him to fuck off. Don't give him anything.
As someone who has spent 20 years supporting the development of new medical therapies, I hate the polarization on vaccinations. My wife, who leans towards anti-vax (though our kids are mostly vaxxed and we both received the first 2 doses of Pfizers vax.....my wife herself recently challenged me on my NOT POLARIZED VIEW. Here's what I said:
The 2 greatest advancements in medicine that have increased human life span are vaccines and antibiotics. Now does that mean EVERY vaccine or antibiotic did that? Of course not. I'm talking about classes of therapies.
Medicine and pharmacology are supposed to be about risk-benefit. Not ALL populations receive an equal benefit, or maximum risk, for a given therapy. The medical community is supposed to take that information and give best practice advice - sometimes they do, sometimes they make complete blanket statements.
We developed the original vaccines from the lab to approval in ~9-10 months. Then 2 new major variants emerged which the vaccines were not nearly as efficacious against. What was originally breakthrough infections became common and the prevention of hospitalization is decreasing. Further, duration of protection rapidly declined after the exact period they tested against - 90 days (which, yes, I view suspiciously).
Have we rushed modified vaccines to market? No. The first and utmost expression from pharma AND government was - take more doses of existing vaccines. Which, at best, there's conflicting evidence for....but is extremely commercially beneficial.
Now I'm sitting here going: I don't see the evidence to get boosted. And I don't see the evidence my status of vaccinated decreases my risk of transmission anymore, so I'm unsure what the work mandates or vaccine passports do anymore besides demand vaccination against a prior variant. And that stance is considered "anti-vax".
Ironically, it's the pro-vaccine crowd right now that is totally anti-science.
P.s. I recognize that vaccinated, high-risk populations still show lower mortality and hospitalization rates with Delta variant. I believe Omicron is more mixed.
On Rumble, because heretics etc
Hyperlink
If someone knows a sick person concerned about hospitals, you might quickkly hook them up with early treatment.
Or not....
I am in favor of old and sick people getting the Covid "vaccines."
But the net benefit for young, healthy people, and especially to the previously infected (hello Novak!), is not clear, since they had low risks of getting sick-sick, the vaccines have at least some side effects, and of course they do not actually prevent transmission.
Again Marchese retreats into other material, and after a while — showing amazing doggedness — he tries again:
That is because the reporter has an agenda and propaganda to produce.
The people that own the NYT's need to try to connect people who are skeptical with the COVID "vaccines" to people who are actually anti-vaxxers.
Right now there is an evil regime in charge of the country that is trying to obfuscate teh truth and feed their Big Pharma Cronies billions of dollars.
The only way they can justify their disgusting tactics is to lie about the people who will not take this experimental and really quite ineffective treatment. I have had more vaccinations than any of these Panic Covidians just due to being in the army.
I am not anti-vax. I am anti completely useless and risky experimental treatments that the regime wants to force me to take.
And the Covidians cannot deal with the truth. So they have to lie and call us anti-vaxxers.
Lying, coverups and censorship are what evil people do.
The backlash is coming for you shitheads sooner rather than later.
I love Temple Grandin.
The Temple Grandin movie is a really good one. It’s one of the few movies extant that makes me cry ever time.
The “vaccine” that is a real vaccine is no more risky than Salk’s great flu and polio vaccines of the WWII to the early 1950’s era. It is the continually slandered one, Johnson and Johnson Vaccine with booster. What is being refused by many is experimental rDNA injections ( Pfizer and Moderna) that apparently make the human subjects into lab rat that end up more likely to catch Covid-19 but to have a much milder case.
Big Politics aside, asking for blind trust in the Big Pharma-Government fraud operations of the past 40 years sounds to many like insanity.
She is smarter than most fools who agree to talk to the foul cretins at NYT(D) - elite hack central.
Autism doesn't have a single cause. Not is it a specific diagnosis.
One possible cause for some cases which get classified as autism is an autoimmune reaction early in life, sometimes before birth. It isn't insane to wonder if a particular immune response caused a particular case of autism. I don't think this hypothesis should be shut down because of the desire to avoid discouraging parents from vaccinating their children. Other things cause immune responses! It's important to know what's happening. It's possible that the vaccine related cases are the tip of a very large iceberg of all autism caused by immune response. Since autism doesn't have one cause and no one agrees on a consistent diagnosis, it is difficult to correlate data on what may be happening.
On covid vaccines, yes they keep most people out of the hospital. No, they don't stop transmission. Of hospital cases, vaccinated patients are less likely to end up in an ICU and less likely to die. There are worldwide data confirming this. Age remains the most important variable determining the risk of death from covid. I'm puzzled by the difficulty people have understanding simple facts that have been obvious for nine months. Vaccines obviously reduce deaths and obviously don't stop transmission. Sorry if reality isn't cooperating with your talking points.
The "quickly" part, of course, is hampered by rationed mAbs and scared or self-righteous pharmacists practicing medical nihilism.
Gradin, famous for horsing around, should be cornered about "horse paste"!!!!
Owen said...Can we get the relevant numbers here? "...fewer than 1% of those who are hospitalized due to Covid-19" and so how many were in fact hospitalized with Covid-19? And not just "WITH" Covid-19 but FROM Covid-19?
That actually doesn't matter so long as both groups are treated the same.
That said, getting an actual apples to apples comparison is devilishly difficult. For instance, people who have had their booster shot would be more careful in many areas of life lives and would be less likely to get COVID than the general unvaccinated population even if there were no vaccines yet. So we can't ascribe all their reduced number to the vaccine.
Then, there are risk categories. I'd like to see comparisons like this:
1) The likelihood of a vaccinated person getting COVID compared to someone with similar daily habits who is not vaccinated.
2) The likelihood of hospitalization for otherwise healthy, fully vaccinated, 50-year-olds as compared to otherwise healthy unvaccinated 50-year-olds.
These are the kinds of comparisons that have meaning.
"debunked" is a BS word used by the propaganda press.
I watch a lot of shows on science, because it stretches my lack of being a scientifically minded person. One thing actual scientists ARE - is humble in how they realize that being wrong is a roadmap to deeper knowledge. when leftists says "the science is settled or... "Science!" ala Fraud fauci - you can bet they are easily propagandized by journalists who use words like "debunked"
Robert Cook said: "But it does work well, (he said sincerely)."
Yes, works so well that the people who have received the covid19 Vaccine can both continue to get and spread covid according to the CDC. The only benefit is that it might, might keep you from dying maybe.
First they said you were protected from getting the disease and spreading the disease.
Second they said you could still get the disease but you were unlikely to spread it.
(this is where they changed the definition of vaccine).
Third they said you could still get the disease and spread the disease but you were unlikely to go to the hospital.
Fourth they said you could still get the disease and spread the disease and you you could still end up in the hospital but were unlikely to die.
Fifth they said.....
Yeah so freaking effective. Get that 5th booster!!!
Remember how you got polio, small pox, measles, and mumps after you were inoculated?
(no vaccine is perfect they will say....) Well some used to be.
Let's not even talk about how this inoculation has the HIGHTEST incidence in history of death and injury compared with all other inoculations in history that came before it.
Have a read, and watch the video. https://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/doctors-and-scientists-speaking-out-against-the-largest-drug-experiment-in-history/
TreeJoe @ 9:24: What you said. Every word.
“Don't conflate general anti vaxers with anti COVID Vaxers. Most people against taking the experimental covid inoculation which obviously works so very well (he said sarcastically) have had many other ESTABLISHED vaccines. There is a major distinction there.”
But, then, these experimental gene therapies, only available in this country under Emergency Use Authorizations, do not have full FDA approvals, and 2¹/₂ years ago weren’t medically or legally considered “vaccines”. Wikipedia then updated their definition, and the FDA and CDC followed suit. That’s why these experimental gene therapies are apples and oranges with traditional vaccines. But so many people confuse them. They aren’t the same - they’re just called the same
“ How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg”.
Abraham Lincoln
tim Maguire @ 9:51: Your proposed comparisons make sense to me. How hard can they be to (a) think up (b) develop using the (the by-now absolutely massive quantities of) data that have been collected by every health authority, every research hospital, every epidemiologist on the planet?
Why aren't we getting just a bit more Real Science here? Why the shouting-down and de-platforming of those not fervently supporting the narrative?
PS: Still reading, and enjoying, Alex Berenson's very recent "Pandemia: How Coronavirus Hysteria Took Over Our Government, Rights and Lives."
Reading through this interview I guess it becomes clear that reporters don't really change with the times, they just alter their moral camouflage. Interviewing a public figure with a mental disability would inspire a certain procedural delicacy and deference in a normal person. Not this guy though. Grandin has had a hard time making her way and deserves much acknowledgement and respect for her achievements - and her contributions. The NYT is a crap rag and reflects this quality in their choice of personnel.
"Well, if it’s OK, I have another couple of questions about vaccines and autism, and you can choose if you’ll answer or not."
Right neighborly of that there reporter to give Grandin permission not to answer the question.
"OK, I’ll move on for now...
Right neighborly of that there reporter to warn Grandin there'd be an ambush later.
Howard: "Obviously the woman doesn't want take parents with autism to feel bad about their vaccine ignorance. Apparently she doesn't care about the feewings of Trumper antivaxxers."
Someone who claims to be an actual adult wrote that....on purpose...and then felt the need to share that "thought" with others.
Fascinating.
Another trait of many autistic people is that they see things in black and white, right or wrong; there is no gray area. You can see that in the interrogation of Temple Grandin above. For her, the discussion is done about vaccines and autism (especially with that myth now debunked” and she has nothing more to talk about the topic. It’s possible that David Marchese doesn’t understand this trait of autistic people and maybe thought she was hiding an opinion that he felt needed to be pulled out of her. However, Temple said “No Comment” repeatedly and “No means No!”. Double standards by liberals on “No means No!” From where I sit.
Refusal + MSM = assent.
"Did you support Trump's attempted government takeover of the government on Jan 6?"
"I have no comment on that."
"Yeah, we thought so."
TreeJoe said, "As someone who has spent 20 years supporting the development of new medical therapies, I hate the polarization on vaccinations."
Curious if you ever saw this TED talk from 2019. Be interested in your reaction if you're inclined to check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8PNlXHJ48
We developed the original vaccines from the lab to approval in ~9-10 months... Have we rushed modified vaccines to market? No.
Given the historical timescale in which five years was the previous fastest-to-market vaccine development and the average was closer to 15 years, yes we did rush this one to market. Well these four very similar mRNA "vaccines" to market. And some of that speed is due to the head-start several labs had, whereby they were researching the virus and vaccines for it simultaneously. (mRNA research was hot and heavy pre-COVID for a variety of illnesses.) That the CDC has changed the definition of "vaccine" in response to the WuFlu vaccines not really solving the problem like a traditional vaccine, only mitigating it, is another data point that speaks to the rushed nature of focusing on one spike protein that was sure to mutate.
No long-term tests for younger people. Congress had to waive liability in order to rush this solution out. So I'm not sure how the statement "no we did not rush" can be supported by the facts. And you offered no facts. They are more widely available now than at any time in the last two years. Check it out.
"Q: Surely, Temple, you have some thoughts about vaccines and autism?
A: No comment. And stop calling me Shirley!"
Stop calling me Shirley Temple?
It seems a good number of commenters have never been interviewed by a reporter with a prejudgment or an agenda.
I came to expect this of our friends in the media, and it was a welcome experience when a reporter - or my favorite, an "investigative journalist" - was not of this ilk.
"Vaccine" therapeutics correlated with myocarditis, particularly in males, dysfunctional female periods, higher risk of infection and disease progression, and silent spreader events.
farmgirl said...
If Temple was chosen for an interview solely because she’s a “person living w/autism” (PC worded) that’s an embarrassment to the NYTs. And, I’ll bet Temple knew it, too. That extra sense thing people obtain working w/bovines.
----------
is Temple the only famous “person living w/autism” ?
In my view this attempt at interview amounts to treating autism as a joke.
Temple should have attacked the reporter by quizzing him about his knowledge / information about autism and mocking at her
@Mike (MJB Wolf)
That quote of what TreeJoe wrote is missing significant context.
We developed the original vaccines from the lab to approval in ~9-10 months. Then 2 new major variants emerged which the vaccines were not nearly as efficacious against.... Have we rushed modified vaccines to market? No. The first and utmost expression from pharma AND government was - take more doses of existing vaccines.
I don't think TreeJoe is disputing that the original vaccines were developed on an accelerated timeline. The phrase 'modified vaccines' to me is pretty clearly meant to indicate that we haven't had a similar development program to modify the vaccines to deal with the newer variants.
Well...some of these regulatory issues were discussed in the multi-hour hearing linked above. But those folks aint got nuttin on the Althouse comments section.
Howard said...
Obviously the woman doesn't want take parents with autism to feel bad about their vaccine ignorance. Apparently she doesn't care about the feewings of Trumper antivaxxers.
Case in point.
Howard is an idiot so he can't tell the difference between my decision to get every vaccine known to man except this one.
Might have something to do with completely unnecessary due to having natural resistance.
Or the fact that I don't trust giant corporations that are trying to hide the results of the clinical trials and making record profits.
No Howard is in idiot mode. He has to mumble out "anti-vaxxer" and stick his head up his ass.
So me as the nerdy Boston accountant had fun visiting a client’s ranch in Montana. The ranch manager is driving us around the property in the truck and I get to drop two bits of knowledge that seems to blow his mind. First noticing his row of silage- the industrial sized marshmallows you see everywhere in Vermont but apparently are rare in MT. Second we were driving by the signature curved handling pens and asking ‘Are those chutes from Temple Grandin?’ not knowing the manager was a Colorado State U grad…
I also won drinks for the bar on the dice game at Bank Bar that night. It was a good day…
Robert Cook said...
"Most people against taking the experimental covid inoculation which obviously works so very well (he said sarcastically)...."
But it does work well, (he said sincerely).
What is your evidence for this?
They are hiding the clinical trail results from us so we don't have any actual science to back up what you said (sincerely).
I know you are a socialist so it must be the record profits of the State allied companies like Pfizer that benefit from government vaccine mandates that is wetting your willy.
“Incidentally, Sen Johnson currently holding an interesting hearing...that will be memory-holed immediately.”
I saw the last forum he held- or the beginning few speakers. It was on the vaccine injured. So many people experiencing negative Covid vaccine issues and it’s not mainstream knowledge. That’s sinful.
Like several above, I greatly respect TG for what she's achieved, and for how she approaches solutions to problems.
I read the full NYT article, and came away thinking that we could do far worse than putting her in charge of making sense of the data flowing from the past two years' experience with Covid.
Just take her reply to one question in that interview, and apply it to the mess that is the information stream surrounding Covid approaches:
Do you find politics too abstract?
One of the things that bothers me is when it’s all gobbledygook, because they’re not talking about how you’re actually going to fix something. Like when they had the power failures in Texas, they just talked gobbledygook. My approach to that — and I know a lot about equipment — is I would visit each of those power plants and find out exactly what froze. I wouldn’t be fighting over who owns them, because I only have one goal: I don’t want that mess to happen again. But I don’t want to talk to suits. Get me alone down in the maintenance shop in that plant, and I’ll find a guy who will sing to me. He’ll tell me everything. As soon as the suit walks in the room, that guy will clam up because he’s afraid he’ll get in trouble. I’ve got to talk to the good technical people. They’ll tell me what’s wrong, and they can’t tell me much abstract BS.
My friend is feeling better today, so while her second round of COVID was not a pleasant experience, she is on the rebound. Hopefully the worst is all behind her.
If you're arguing against vaccines for people over ~60 years old, you should be able to explain, without sarcasm, without bumper sticker retorts, why these charts (from a stridently anti-panic, anti-mask, website, BTW) don't contradict your position.
@Ficta - no one is really questioning vaccinating 100+ Year olds. Ok, maybe THAT Bobby Kennedy. Heck, I am over 70, and it almost made sense for me - I got two jabs last spring, just quit getting more with Omicron.
The first thing to keep in mind is that the chances of dying rises almost exponentially, based on age. Almost no deaths below 20, and almost every one had a significant comorbidity - typically either very serious obesity or a compromised immune system. We had 4 of 5 grandsons over right before Christmas, all then teenagers (oldest turned 20 last week), and their odds of dying from COVID-19 were effectively zero, since all have a BMI well under 10%, as you should expect from teenaged boys. As for vaccinations, we do know that the vaccines are more dangerous for that demographic, because we know of cases where healthy kids have died soon after vaccination, and there are almost none who died of COVID-19, and esp the Omicron variant. We just don’t know how bad the problem is with vaccine side effects, because neither the FDA nor the vaccine manufacturers want to know. They seem to have set up a reporting system optimized for drastically underreporting vaccine side effects.
But also keep in mind, that the issue is not availability of vaccinations, but whether they are mandatory, either required for a job, school, or just grins by the government. There is no rational reason left for requiring mandatory vaccinations of anyone. They don’t significantly reduce spread of the virus, nor aid in gaining herd immunity. And hospital overcrowding appears right now to be almost exclusively a staffing issue - exacerbated by mandatory vaccination mandates. If you are 100+, and want to be vaccinated, fine. It may keep you alive longer. 70-100? Fine too. 40-70 without comorbidities? Probably not smart, but it’s your choice. 20-40 without significant comorbidities? Stupid, but your choice. Under 20, without significant comorbidities? That should be charged as criminal child abuse. That should include any officials ordering it, or medical care professionals doing it.
I would have been interested in what the interviewee had to say on vaccines if she were an intelligent, well-informed person who is (a) able to understand statistics, (b) able to understand the motivations of pharmaceutical companies, and (c) able to understand enough of the underlying science to have an ability not to make fundamental mistakes.
There is nothing in her bio that leads me to believe she can understand more than one of those three things, so if she does not want to say anything about whether some group of vaccines is on net harmful or beneficial, I am fine with that ---- this would be a better world if the ignorant were more willing not to speak about things they are ignorant about.
I would have been interested in what the interviewee had to say on vaccines if she were an intelligent, well-informed person who is (a) able to understand statistics, (b) able to understand the motivations of pharmaceutical companies, and (c) able to understand enough of the underlying science to have an ability not to make fundamental mistakes.
There is nothing in her bio that leads me to believe she can understand more than one of those three things, so if she does not want to say anything about whether some group of vaccines is on net harmful or beneficial, I am fine with that ---- this would be a better world if the ignorant were more willing not to speak about things they are ignorant about.
There would be a LOT of silence in this world, if that were the rule of thumb.
farmgirl - thx for reading
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