November 29, 2021

"There are two pronouns: he and she. Our language is beautiful. And two pronouns are appropriate."

Said the French first lady, Brigitte Macron, quoted in "In a Nonbinary Pronoun, France Sees a U.S. Attack on the Republic/When a French dictionary included the gender-nonspecific 'iel' for the first time, a virulent reaction erupted over 'wokisme' exported from American universities" (NYT).
Lilian Delhomme, 24, a gender-nonconforming student of international affairs at the University of Paris 8 who has been using the pronoun “iel” for about a year, was appalled by Ms. Macron’s statement. 
“This for me was very violent,” Mx. Delhomme said in an interview. “Coming from the first lady, from a woman, from a French teacher, from someone whose relationship went against many societal norms, it made me lose hope.”
Mx. Delhomme was referring to the fact that the relationship between Ms. Macron, 68, and Mr. Macron, 43, began in high school when he was a teenager and she was his drama teacher, married with three children....
That's a nice example of going on the offense, but I wonder if the French who are outraged about the invention of ungendered pronouns might also reject the "many societal norms" that stand in the way of a sexual relationship between a teenaged student and his high school teacher. I don't know. I am not French. I don't have my finger on the pulse of the French. 

But, from afar, I empathize with the sentiment "Our language is beautiful." It is true of French and it is true of English, though awful writing and speech is possible in both languages, and it's hard to speak beautifully of the desire to control the growth of the language. There are always many extra words, and who could you trust to pare away the extra words?

One answer is: The dictionary! I remember when some people would eschew any word that wasn't "in the dictionary." 

ADDED: If you object to adding weird words, why would you say "wokeisme"? I detect eepocreeezeee.

92 comments:

Amadeus 48 said...

"...and who could you trust to pare away the extra words?"

L'Academie francaise.

David Begley said...

This pronoun thing just shows how mentally ill people are. I saw a guy in the grocery store parking lot the other day and he was wearing a cloth mask. My first thought was that they is a nut.

mikee said...

"This for me was very violent."
If you think verbal disagreement is violent, your life has very few things to complain about, and you are complaining about something that never happened, violence, when only speech occurred. And no, I am not yelling at anyone by typing this. How can I trust someone so irrational as to confuse speech with violence, to pick words that describe other aspects of their existence?

rhhardin said...

Pronouns are a closed class - new ones are not discovered. Like prepositions, which are not added to either.

mccullough said...

“The University of Paris 8.” Are the French Universities numbered like perfumes?

gilbar said...

I remember when some people would eschew any word that wasn't "in the dictionary."

WHICH dictionary??? which edition?
the world, would be Much More Better; if people would just use the 850 words of Basic English

Now, HOW we're going to convince the French of that, is beyond me

Bob_R said...

I just had a conversation where I wanted to use a neutral pronoun. I was discussing a person whose identity I am required to keep private. "He" or "she" would not have completely given the game away, but would have been close. I used "the person" a few times and then resorted to "they." I think "they" is the front-runner for a neutral singular. Something better would be nice.

Gahrie said...

it's hard to speak beautifully of the desire to control the growth of the language. There are always many extra words, and who could you trust to pare away the extra words?

The French actually have a government panel to protect the French language. For instance they have tried to replace "le hamburger" and "le telephone" with more traditional French terms.

Nancy said...

I don't see how to make it work. Adjectives and past participles are gendered. How do you say eil was born? Est ne or est nee?

retail lawyer said...

“This for me was very violent,” Mx. Delhomme said in an interview.
She is consistent in her attempts to make language conform to her delusions.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

There is a constant tension among populations that share a living language in that there is no limit to new words and new combinations the speakers of a constantly evolving language can invent and no way to predict which new terms will enjoy widespread use as they spread from organizations or regions into the general population. Such is the fate of most modern tongues. Science gets— or used to get— around this definitional evolution by using the dead language of Latin as their choice to name things. As we’ve seen quite recently the use of Latin outside of practicing scientists still can encounter woke resistance.

rcocean said...

I'm surprised Liberal/Leftists don't love the French more. They're completely Laizzare-faire when it comes to sex, and who can have a relationship with who. IRC, the age of consent is 15. Roman Polanski is disliked by decent people in the USA, but in France they don't get why those puritanical Americans were so upset at Polonanksi raping a 13 y/o. The President has a mistress, who cares? The French President is married to a woman 15 years older, is probably bi-sexual, who cares?

Along as both parties agree, its anything goes. A liberal/Left utopia.

Michael K said...

Since French words have gender included, I wonder what a "gender nonconforming" person thinks is good about studying in France?

rcocean said...

BTW, I love how the NYT gives center stage to some nobody student, and acts like her opinion is equal to that of the First Lady of France. Why should i care what any Student thinks about anything?

That's why they're in college. To learn. Not to give everyone else guidance. Or make demands.

RNB said...

“'This for me was very violent,' Mx. Delhomme said in an interview." Saying something Mx. [sic] Delhomme doesn't like equals violence.

Humperdink said...

“This for me was very violent,”

Good grief!

rehajm said...

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

You are intriguing me. You are not working with these people?

HECTOR:

Oh, no, I'm Hector. I'm a psychiatrist.

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

Psychiatrist. Hello. You can help me.

HECTOR:

Oh, I think not.

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

But I want a penis.

HECTOR:

A penis...You mean happiness.

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

Everybody want 'appiness but you cannot own 'appiness.

HECTOR:

Yes, sorry. It's, uh, elusive, yeah. You can't touch happiness.

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

You cannot touch 'appiness.

HECTOR: (LAUGHING)

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

I do! Listen to me, I want a penis in my bottom.

HECTOR: (LAUGHING GROGGILY)

No, no, you want happiness from the bottom of your heart.

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

That is what I said, a penis... in my bottom.

HECTOR: (LAUGHING)

FRENCH LADY: (FRENCH ACCENT)

Stop it.

HECTOR:

Oh, God!

-Hector and the Search for Happiness, 2014

Achilles said...

The dictionary! I remember when some people would eschew any word that wasn't "in the dictionary."

One of the positive benefits of this garbage is to erode the confidence that people put in Words.

People needed to figure out how to convey meaning better than relying on the dictats of Dictionary producers.

ADDED: If you object to adding weird words, why would you say "wokeisme"? I detect eepocreeessseee.

You are trying too hard.

You are not better than us.

jaydub said...

“This for me was very violent,” Mx. Delhomme said in an interview..."

If she thinks pronouns are "violent", particularly ones that have been used for centuries in a language which fundamentally based on gendered nouns, then she is too delicate for society and too irrational to debate. Personally, I think it would be interesting for her to explain how she managed to learn French as a child and use if for the first 23 years of her life without succumbing to the continuing assault. Quelle horreur!

Fernandinande said...

This for me was very violent.

"I'm very histrionic."

When I was in France they were campaigning against English words, especially "weekend".

Lurker21 said...

The French Academy tightly controls the rules of the French language and makes French a lot harder to learn than it would have been if common usage had dictated the rules. The French recognize that today's wokisme is American imperialism. It wasn't hard, since they are imperialists themselves and the power of the Anglo-Saxons is more keenly felt in France than in other countries that didn't have an empire or dreams of global dominion.

Scot said...

~Mark Twain, The Awful German Language

A person's mouth, neck, bosom, elbows, fingers, nails, feet, and body are of the male sex, and his head is male or neuter according to the word selected to signify it, and not according to the sex of the individual who wears it--for in Germany all the women wear either male heads or sexless ones; a person's nose, lips, shoulders, breast, hands, and toes are of the female sex; and his hair, ears, eyes, chin, legs, knees, heart, and conscience haven't any sex at all. The inventor of the language probably got what he knew about a conscience from hearsay.

Now, by the above dissection, the reader will see that in Germany a man may think he is a man, but when he comes to look into the matter closely, he is bound to have his doubts; he finds that in sober truth he is a most ridiculous mixture; and if he ends by trying to comfort himself with the thought that he can at least depend on a third of this mess as being manly and masculine, the humiliating second thought will quickly remind him that in this respect he is no better off than any woman or cow in the land.

Joe Smith said...

There are 3 pronouns in French: He, She, and Oui...

MadisonMan said...

This for me was very violent.....it made me lose hope.
Another person who cares far too much about what other people think and say. If you don't try to control people, your life will be so much simpler.

Yancey Ward said...

People are free to use whatever pronouns they wish to use, and I will claim the same fucking right.

typingtalker said...

Is the French language still limited to two genders -- masculine and feminine -- le et la?

Craig Howard said...

Rather than protesting the addition of yet another word to the language, I think Mme. Macron is disputing its need. The pronoun “iel “ attempts to create a new concept. — one she believes invalid.

As for “wokeisme”, by simply using the English word, she emphasizes that it is an American concept — one that should remain so.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

ADDED: If you object to adding weird words, why would you say "wokeisme"? I detect eepocreeessseee.

Wokeisme is a new word that describes a new cancer attacking France. New thing, new word needed.

"Iel" is bullshit pandering to the mentally ill. There's no such thing as a "non-binary" individual, so there's no need for a word to describe it. (There's mentally ill fruitcakes playing stupid games, but there are no actual "non-binary" people)

We'll know the French are serious about this if they fire everyone involved, from the person who proposed it to every single person who approved it, up to and including the head of the dictionary.

If they don't they're going to get more of it. Because personnel is policy.

narciso said...

woke feeds into their paradigm, that everyone was operating under false consciousness, I use zombie, because brain,s

Howard said...

All these non-binary people don't bother me in the least. What bothers me is the multiplicity of pronouns that they are pushing. To me that is "violent aggression" (🤪) against the ADHD dyslexic folks among Us who have trouble with normal language to begin with. Adding a bunch of new terms is very very confusing and it feels like a macro aggression. Therefore I am perfectly happy with he, she and they.

Conrad said...

I think it's worth differentiating between situations in which words come into or go out of a language because people naturally choose to use them or not use them, and situations where unelected would-be authorities try to force the language to change to suit their ideological objectives.

Lem said...

Who are the imperialists now?

Mattman26 said...

I don't have my finger on the pulse of France either, but I know they've long been jealously protective of the language in a way that no one here in 'merica (except maybe some English teachers) would bother with. Here's hoping those people are a match for wokisme. Or at least that they have a bon weekend.

BTW, "Mx. Delhomme?" That's a funny one too. I refer to the "Mx.", although I guess the fact that delhomme translates to something like "from the man" is funny in its own right.

In "Emily in Paris," our American heroine is working at a Paris marketing agency, and gets assigned (more or less as a punishment for not knowing her place) to work on a feminine hygiene spray. She's working on a campaign about "la vagine," and is surprised to learn (and who wouldn't be?) that it's actually "le vagine." Go figger.

Chris said...

Here we go with the whole idea that words are violence. What ever happened to sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Does anyone even teach that anymore? I'll tell you what, sticks and stones coming at you is true violence, and words are not violence. Seems like this kid needs to have real violence brought upon them to understand that.

dbp said...

"“This for me was very violent,” "

Proof, if any more were needed, that Lilian Delhomm doesn't really care much about language being good or bad at conveying ideas in a clear and honest way.

M Jordan said...

From my perch in the crow’s nest I sense upper atmospheric currents which have changed and changed empathetically. The trans moment is over. Progressivism’s moment is over. AOC is waning. Thank J.K. Rowling for being the general who faced down the mob and steered history rightward.

Andrew said...

I now may have to consider adding France to the list of possible countries to flee to, once the guillotines emerge over here.

Ice Nine said...

>Althouse said...
That's a nice example of going on the offense, but I wonder if the French who are outraged about the invention of ungendered pronouns might also reject the "many societal norms" that stand in the way of a sexual relationship between a teenaged student and his high school teacher.<

It might be a nice example of going on the offense but it is a lousy example of good offense. "Societal norms" was mentioned only by Lilian Delhomme in her lame "rebuttal". Societal norms have nothing to do with this language issue. It is a glaring non sequitur straw man that he/she/it set up to attack and supposedly rebut Ms. Macron’s statement. It failed for most.

wendybar said...

Lilian Delhomme needs to grow up. There are only 2 genders. If you are a SCIENCE DENIER, then, you think otherwise. Funny how the real SCIENCE DENIERS are the ones calling everyone else SCIENCE DENIERS when they are pushing their own conspiracy theories.

Sebastian said...

"If you object to adding weird words, why would you say "wokeisme"? I detect eepocreeessseee."

It's not necessarily hypocritical. Two pronouns are appropriate to cover actually existing sex and gender differences, hence there is no need to add weird words that make the language more ugly. But wokeisme is an appropriate new word to cover a new phenomenon, especially useful if uttered with the right amount of French disdain.

Kevin said...

“This for me was very violent,” Mx. Delhomme said in an interview.

I see France got the "speech is violence, violence is speech" package sent from America.

daskol said...

New nouns are occasionally required to describe new things. Such is not so of pronouns. Parts of speech matter.

Sigivald said...

"Coming from the first lady, from a woman, from a French teacher, from someone whose relationship went against many societal norms, it made me lose hope"

Why is Macron's womanhood important to the student's desire to have her pronouns celebrated?

And indeed, why her French-teacher-ness? Are French teachers in France, which is so serious about French that it requires it to be used in all official communications and advertisements, and a centuries-old academy dedicated to keeping French from being changed by foreign influence, supposed to be avant-garde about changing the language and adding pronouns?

(I am personally more on Delhomme's side in terms of such a pronoun existing, and perfectly happy to use 'they' in English, it being of long-standing provenance.

But what sort of fool thinks "woman" or "French teacher" means they're owed allegiance on this?)

Rocketeer said...

Because “wokeisme” isn’t weird, but “iel” is.

That’s not “eepocreeessseee.” That’s the way French works.

madAsHell said...

Lilian Delhomme, 24, a gender-nonconforming student

The newspapers embrace mental health issues like some new kind of diversity.

Chris Lopes said...

Additions to language should reflect an actual change in reality. There are still only 2 sexes, and wishing (that's what "identifying as" is) otherwise won't change that. The universe doesn't care about how you feel. Reality always wins.

Thuglawlibrarian said...

“This for me was very violent,”

It is not violent. It was someone expressing their opinion with words and words alone. Period.

farmgirl said...

I grew up hearing French, always- my Father’s 1st language. Alas, not my Mother’s. I never spoke it.

I did, however, take the 2required yrs in HS. It almost killed me. One thing I remember- masculine &feminine words. And a complimentary dance creating a beautiful language… that I passed this class was a miracle!

CJinPA said...

It's not just the adding of new words to dictionaries, it's the speed with which new words (or new definitions for old words) are rammed through the culture. It used to be organic, from the masses up, over decades. Now, it's rapid, top-down, from the elite.

That's a profound development in communication.

“This for me was very violent,”

This is another profound change. Accusing words themselves of being "violent."
The crude reason for this? Enlightened people generally don't want to be seen censoring others. But opposing violence? That's an accepted reason for banning certain speech.

farmgirl said...

Why are opinions violence?
I thought silence- was violence?

J Melcher said...

I am annoyed by those who assert that English. Unlike French, is unencumbered by an authority to restrict our diction to approved words, while nearly simultaneously relying on the AP style guide or academic journal requirements or other non-governmental authority to condemn traditional words and enforce politically correct NewSpeak. Just last week the word "obese" has been so condemned. We must now use Climate change not global warming, though climate catastrophe may be required soon. Choice must only be used in context of abortion not public school or public health decisions. Lame and deaf and short and ugly and even old are forbidden and parody like vertically challenged or chronologically inequitable barely keep ahead of the censorious scolds who are asserted to be mythical.

walter said...

"the relationship between Ms. Macron, 68, and Mr. Macron, 43, began in high school when he was a teenager and she was his drama teacher, married with three children"
Would make a great musical.

Trans-lation group says:
" In France the first way of adopting inclusive writing is to use existing neutral forms where possible, for example, lectorat (the readership) instead of les lecteurs (m.) or les lectrices (f.). The second technique includes both masculine and feminine endings, e.gIn France the first way of adopting inclusive writing is to use existing neutral forms where possible, for example, lectorat (the readership) instead of les lecteurs (m.) or les lectrices (f.). The second technique includes both masculine and feminine endings, e.g. lecteur·ice·s. Regarding pronuns iel appears to be the one most people prefer. It is a contraction of il (he) and elle (she). However, if iel is used, speakers may have to pick, later on, one of the binary gender options for adjectives’ or nouns’ endings (nouns and adjectives are gendered).

What of the future?

The academies that regulate Spanish and French oppose the changes, says Bennet. Although the new orthography has been adopted by some media outlets, universities and a few companies, it remains highly controversial, most notably in France, she adds.

France’s language “watchdog”, the elite Académie Française, unanimously adopted an official statement against inclusive writing already in 2017, saying that it is an aberration which poses a mortal threat to the French language, that the nation will need to account for to future generations. More recently, a group of 60 MPs have signed a letter protesting against bringing gender inclusive words into use in the civil service. The politicians argue that it makes learning French harder and “endangers the language”."
https://www.capstan.be/romance-languages-are-rooted-in-a-binary-vision-of-the-world-this-poses-challenges-for-educators-seeking-to-create-a-more-inclusive-environment-in-the-classroom/

JK Brown said...

A comedian on Gutfeld! observed that they used pronouns mostly because they couldn't remember people's names so why would they remember "their pronouns". I agree. But I agree of the Jordan Peterson's reason for not using someone's preferred pronouns, under threat of government violence, as individual liberty and human freedom to not be compelled in speech. A private choice to abide by a private request is fine, but once failure to accede brings down government violence, through bureaucrat or court enforcement then it is an infringement on individual liberties.

Mike of Snoqualmie said...

The non-binary pronoun in English is "it." "They" is not a non-binary singular pronoun, it is a group pronoun. If someone thinks they are non-binary, then he/she is in urgent need of mental health counseling. Also, if he/she insists on "they", then the proper pronoun is "it." So what if "it" is the pronoun for inanimate objects, that's its problem.

rhhardin said...

Two great sexes animate the world - Milton

Scott M said...

"I'm French! Why do think I have this outrageous accent?"

(said in an outrageously French-accented English)

Danno said...

When the cheese-eating surrender monkeys call foul, you know the progtards have gone too far.

tim maguire said...

“This for me was very violent,” Mx. Delhomme said in an interview. “Coming from the first lady, from a woman, from a French teacher, from someone whose relationship went against many societal norms, it made me lose hope.”

Of course it's not violent. What an idiotic statement. Ironic that the rest of quote plays to sexist reactionary sympathies. What do you mean "from a woman"? Why does Ms. Macron's status as a woman obligate her to support you?

Dictionaries are supposed to reflect, not drive, usage. Sadly, that is changing to the detriment of our shared culture.

I'd love to hear what NYT readers think of Mx. Delhomme. I bet they're not impressed. It looks like there are no comments but it's hard to tell for sure as it's paywalled (you get about 1 second to see it all, so you gotta be quick).

Blair said...

You've got to laugh at French attempts to paint "wokeisme" as an Anglo import. If there's anything that descends directly from French philosophy and the '68ers, it's "wokeisme"!

This Person said...

Leave it to libs to assert that only they should be empowered to influence changes in language.

Rabel said...

Those goofy Frenchies with their oddball ways.

Richard Dolan said...

" If you object to adding weird words, why would you say "wokeisme"? I detect eepocreeezeee."

Well, the article puts it in single quotes to mark it as a term borrowed from the Anglo-Ams while also noting that the whole ides is an export from American universities. The French word she objects to is 'iel,' the mash-up of "il" and "elle" at issue, which is obviously not borrowed from American English, looks weird on the page and sounds worse when pronounced.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Guess That Pronoun - https://twitter.com/i/status/1465379773845164034

cubanbob said...

Lilian Delhomme, 24, is a petulant child. Not worth paying attention to not deserving serious attention. Let someone punch her in the face then she will know real violence and not phoney violence. Althouse making fun of Macron's wife by using wokeism make Mrs. Macron's point as well. Perhaps Mrs. Macron should have stated that Communist linguistic doublespeak idiocy is Lilian Delhomme, 24,narcissistic brat's problem, not adult civil society's problem.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Guess That Pronoun - https://twitter.com/i/status/1465379773845164034

Critter said...

Languages change through common usage. I am not going to use the new pronouns and I expect few to use them as well. I’ll be surprised if this push sticks.

n.n said...

Sex: male and female. Gender is sex-correlated attributes (e.g. sexual orientation): masculine and feminine, respectively. Transgender or divergence from gender is abnormal (e.g. distribution) and happens with Her Choice and her Choice.

Teacher/student relationships are at risk of superior exploitation and should be discouraged until we reach an age of majority.

Men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature/nature. The social fabric is designed to normalize a favorable juxtaposition of the sexes for the People and our Posterity.

That said, social progress with an empathetic appeal is a progressive path and grade. We're not in Wisconsin... Kansas, anymore.

Dagwood said...

Those on the left have become something of a cross between the Eloi and Veruca Salt.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Forced speech is not free speech. Here in ‘Merica I am still allowed to ignore demands I speak a certain way. Common courtesy is a mutual agreement to lubricate societal interactions. Respectful requests will always be considered.

walter said...

Family Name / Last Name: Delhomme
Origin: France
Meaning: Means the person who comes from a place called Man (= elm). It was in Vienna that the name is the most common. It is also found in the Ardèche and the Drôme.

rcocean said...

I see the same ol' tired French bashing. The French fought like tigers in WW I, and with 40% of the USA population, lost 1.2 million men to our 50 thousand (KIA). In WW2, the French lost 60,000 men in six weeks of fighting in 1940, and their brave stand allowed the Brits to evacuate at Dunkirk. That's 10,000 killed in six weeks, compared to the USA army losing 60 thousand in six MONTHS in 1944.

And the French Army on the Western front in 1944-45 and the French Alpine Corps in Italy were among the best divisions in the Allied armies.

Yet, all we get is fat Slobs like Goldberg (who probably faints if his hamburger is too rare) sneering about "Surrender Monkeys".

Clyde said...

@ Gilbar

The world might be a better place if they used the 850 words of Basic English, but the Anglosphere would not. Basic English is for those who are learning English as a second language, but it is not the language of literature. There are shades of meaning among synonyms that a native speaker knows instinctively but a non-native English learner might not perceive.

English is an unusual language because there are so many layers to it: The Germanic of the Angles, Saxons and Jutes that invaded Britain in the 5th Century over some Celtic forms, followed by Latin and Greek from the Church, Norse from the Viking invasions and Norman French from 1066 on, which gave us French words for food (pork, beef) while we kept the old English words for the animals (pig, cow). And wherever our ancestors went, they took whatever words they wanted from other languages and made them their own, giving us the largest vocabulary of any language in the world.

Gabriel said...

It's just grammar. In some languages tables are "male" and pens are "female". Some languages have more than two genders, and the tables or the pens still can be male or female.

In German: tables are female, pencils are male, little girls are neuter. The system is not intended to reflect anyone's psychology or physiology. It's just rules about pronouns and inflections which are as arbitrary as the rules of chess. Chess is not making deep statements about war or statecraft by calling one piece a "king" and giving it different moves from the other. And neither is German making a deep statement about tables, pencils, or little girls.

MadisonMan said...

I figured wokeisme a riff on woe is me.

dbp said...

I'm no linguist, but I do think we live in a simulation.

Lilian Delhomme, avers that not hearing whatever pronoun makes her feel validated is violence.

Did anyone think about the roots of her name? Lilian is easy, it is derived from lily, the flower. Delhomme, is something like 'from the man' or 'of man'.

Coincidence? Or a playful programmer leaving us, who pay attention, an Easter egg.

Joe Smith said...

Not sure about violence, but when I replied 'Iee' ('No') to a question from my Japanese teacher, she told me it was very 'shocking' to hear that word.

You almost never hear a hard 'No' in Japanese.

It is usually something like, 'that would be difficult' or 'it would be inconvenient.'

: )

Jim at said...

I use three pronouns: He, she and asshole.

If you consider yourself something other than the first two, the third fits you to a T. Embrace it.

n.n said...

She's right. We are not amused, but slightly empathetic, sympathetic, frenetic.

Anthony said...

Eventually the Academie Francaise will mandate that the correct translation of "wokeism" isn't "wokeisme", but rather something like "gauchisme infantile".

RigelDog said...

"in France they don't get why those puritanical Americans were so upset at Polonanksi raping a 13 y/o"

Ah, zee Spin-Machine set at full throttle. Around the world, the perception exists that Polanski had a consensual sexual encounter with a young woman and the only scandal is that she was below the age of consent.

Instead, what actually happened is that a 13 year old girl was rape-raped by Polanski. They were in a hot tub, initially with other people I believe, and after they were alone the next thing she knows, he sticks his dick in her ass.

What every young girl dreams will be her first sexual experience!

JAORE said...

"“This for me was very violent,” Mx. Delhomme said in an interview."

Me thinks Mx. Delhomme has never been punched in the face.

Might be instructive.

M Jordan said...

The Beatles were ahead in everything including pronouns. Their three: I, Me, Mine.

Bunkypotatohead said...

At least France has someone to defend the culture and language.
I doubt anyone in the current US executive branch would acknowledge there are two sexes and genders. They wouldn't even admit that their precious "science" tells them that a person with a Y chromosome is not a female.

Zev said...

I object to the misuse of "violent" in the complainer's statement.

Joe Smith said...

'Instead, what actually happened is that a 13 year old girl was rape-raped by Polanski. They were in a hot tub, initially with other people I believe, and after they were alone the next thing she knows, he sticks his dick in her ass.'

He drugged her first...what a guy.

And for that, Hollywood gave him a standing ovation...

J Melcher said...

Here we go with another example of an un-authorized authority arrogating explanations of English diction.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/how-to-talk-like-a-european-union-baizuocrat/

This, AFTER Brexit. How does a community of nations where English is at best a second language for members assume for itself the power to instruct native speakers of that language?

The EU is constructing rules for the English language to apply to nations who are now not or who NEVER BEEN members of the EU, about when to use or avoid words like "family" or "citizen" or "gay" or "prefer".

Allow me to remind speakers of languages derived from Latin and French without the beneficial diverse contributions of German, Gaelic, and many other smaller languages (from which English has happily traded vocabulary) that "arrogant" and "arrogate" both stem from their own identical root word which literally means "a stretch" with the implication of "pilfer". ("Pilfer" being another word from the French, "a petty theft"

Ceciliahere said...

Give that girl a time out to calm down.

ClovisPolar said...

I think the point has been missed by our host.
Words are constantly added and meanings altered in any living language.
They are "proposed" and either adopted or not.
My own complaints are centred around the failure to maintain useful distinctions-as in the blurring of the meaning of (the very useful word) disinterested.

The point is that the modern pronoun wars are about insisting that the words are adopted and are used in the right way.

I think our gracious host has failed to identify the analogue of the Academie Francaise.

I note that one source reports that this new pronoun still comes in two genders.

The Crack Emcee said...

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Joe Smith said...

'Two wrongs do not make a right.'

Two Wongs...

Chris of Rights said...

The problem with iel is that it makes no sense, given how they propose to use it. It's non-binary pronoun. Fine. So, why is there a feminine form, ielle? That makes it back to binary again, and as far as I can tell serves no purpose. It's just a duplication of il and ells only with different spellings.

Chris of Rights said...

Also, it's worth noting that the French have an official language, defined by L'Acadamie Francaise, and an official dictionary, Le Robert, which essentially publishes the language as defined by L'Acadamie. In this case, Le Robert took it upon themselves to add the word to the dictionary, without direction from L'Acadmie.