November 13, 2021

"On the dubious assumption that the Mandate does pass constitutional muster—which we need not decide today—it is nonetheless fatally flawed on its own terms."

"Indeed, the Mandate’s strained prescriptions combine to make it the rare government pronouncement that is both overinclusive (applying to employers and employees in virtually all industries and workplaces in America, with little attempt to account for the obvious differences between the risks facing, say, a security guard on a lonely night shift, and a meatpacker working shoulder to shoulder in a cramped warehouse) and underinclusive (purporting to save employees with 99 or more coworkers from a 'grave danger' in the workplace, while making no attempt to shield employees with 98 or fewer coworkers from the very same threat). The Mandate’s stated impetus—a purported ‘emergency’ that the entire globe has now endured for nearly two years,' and which OSHA itself spent nearly two months responding to—is unavailing as well. And its promulgation grossly exceeds OSHA’s statutory authority."

From the 5th Circuit opinion, which came out yesterday, extending the stay of OSHA’s Emergency Temporary Standard "pending adequate judicial review" of the motion for a permanent injunction. 

92 comments:

Jersey Fled said...

Seems like a competent administration would have figured out that this wasn't going to fly in the first place.

rehajm said...

Holy crap. A ray of sanity...

Gotta crush that before it becomes contagious...

Drago said...

Placing holds on Biden's Earpiece Administration's clearly unconstitutional actions is literally White Supremacy.....and probably murder as well. And Collusion too.

Left Bank can explain it.

Joe Smith said...

I've said it before, but if you think there is an immediate threat, and a vaccine mandate will save thousands of lives, you don't make it effective in a few months.

Vance said...

Go 5th circuit! Judging from this excerpt and others I’ve seen it looks like Biden has crashed and burned here.

I have also heard that Biden is telling people to ignore the ruling and enforce it anyway. This guy really is a dictator isn’t he? He is what the left told us Trump was.

Yancey Ward said...

My prediction is still that the Biden Administration will ignore the ruling, and SCOTUS, too if necessary. The Rubicon is being crossed.

Bob Boyd said...

On the dubious assumption that the man was legitimately elected - which we need not decide today - Joe Biden's Presidency is nonetheless fatally flawed on its own terms.

Which is a long-winded way of saying Let's Go Brandon.

cfkane1701 said...

Extending the "stay," but "extending the say" is intriguing, too.

The Crack Emcee said...

Courts deciding Science are a joke.

gspencer said...

The percentage is high.

What percentage?

The percentage of matters which Congress proclaims as its own, arrogantly as a slap to the people and their freedom.

If the Constitution were obeyed as written, 90% (yeah, lets go with that %) of what Congress legislates on would be struck down. Commensurately the people would have more freedom from fedgov. Maybe the people in different states would have their own freedom battles with their state governments, but those would be battles envisioned by our federal system.

It's refreshing to see a court actually write that fedgov was intended to be LIMITED.

Quaestor said...

Finally, a little sanity.

Unfortunately, the truly mad can summon up a little reason now and then to maintain the disguise.

cfs said...

It is nice to see a bit of common sense in a Court's ruling. My question is, With all the different lawsuits filed in all the different District Court's, which ruling will prevail? Will the cases be combined and decided by one District Court? If so, who decides which Court that will be? Will the cases be expedited, decided, and then next on to the Supreme Court no matter the ruling? If so, we can expect a final decision when, summer of 2022 or 23? Not much of an emergency after all!

gadfly said...

So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination? Where were they when all of the vaccination laws affecting this court of appeals were passed over the past 100 years or so?

Could it be that radicals from neither side of the political sphere considered vaccinations to be somehow harmful - and yet in our enlightened times featuring social media outlets . . . wtf?

Next week I'm off to get Pfizer #3 and I don't give a damn about you dumb folks who choose to voluntarily cause overruns at local hospital covid facilities.

Leland said...

One of the weird things in business these days is employers telling office employees they must return to work. Why? Well, silly stuff like "working in the office is fun" or "it is better working in the office", which just isn't true. At the same time, employers are also telling employees that returning to work is so dangerous that they must be vaccinated and, even if vaccinated, they must wear a mask.

To live with Biden's mandate is to give up logic and reason.

Mike Sylwester said...

It's my understanding that vaccinated people spread the virus about as much as unvaccinated people do.

Lem the artificially intelligent said...

Once this kind of power is granted it will be abused just like the Patriots Act powers were abused.

tim in vermont said...

Sorry, but mandating that people under 30 get vaccinated has nothing to do with "grave dangers" at all whatsoever. Basically, what should happen is early retirement should be offered to people over 60 who don't want to be vaccinated, and from that point forward, we should all get on with our lives.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Pretty damning and (I would hope) obvious. But many these days throw common sense out the window in favor of political views or chosen narratives.

Don’t miss footnote 19.

“The Mandate is also underinclusive in the solutions it proposes. Indeed, even in its fullest force, the Mandate cannot prevent vaccinated employees from spreading the virus in the workplace, or prevent unvaccinated employees from spreading the virus in between weekly tests.”

One of the main reasons I hate the talk of vaccine mandates and the dismissiveness of the left on the topic. If the jab “immunized” us (as in you’re immune and can’t catch or carry/transmit Covid - like, say, polio or MMR) it’d be one thing (probably better received), but it doesn’t do that. It’s more like a flu shot - you still get it (and can transmit) but likely lessens your symptoms. That’s not worth much to many ( especially the young and healthy) and may be worse for vulnerable people. You think MY being jabbed makes you safer, but why? If I have Covid and can transmit it to you, I’ll stay home from work because I feel sick. If the jab lessens my symptoms and I never feel sick, I’m a walking incubator who’s MORE danger to you because I never know I have it and I THINK I’m fine.

mikee said...

Other than all that, OSHA can still proceed, right?

tim in vermont said...

"Courts deciding Science are a joke."

I am sorry, but is it "science" that has dictated vaccine mandates? No, it's politicians, and they are not based on science, they are based on politics, what the court is doing here is limiting the power of politicians to mandate "science."

David Begley said...

I read the full opinion and it is a great one. Not a close case.

1. It noted that Biden was against vax mandates before he was in favor of them.

2. Exposes the skullduggery of WH Chief of Staff aka The Real President in a footnote.

3. The 8th Circuit gets the brief of the plaintiffs on Monday. The 8th will agree with the 5th.

The vax mandate is DEAD.

Lucien said...

Sounds like there will be no need to reach the constitutional issue(s). (Delegability and ??)

tolkein said...

Why the need for a vaccine? I've had both doses - nicely spaced out, thanks to the recommendation of the (UK) Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, and got my booster yesterday. I'm certain, based on the evidence, that these will protect me from hospitalisation and death from Covid. But if I'm protected (as nearly 68, so in higher risk groups, but not overweight, etc) why does it matter if younger people, children, aren't vaccinated? Isn't it their problem, not mine?
And maybe if they get Covid they'll get better longer term protection than from the vaccine.
So I don't understand the need for compulsion, unless - and I'm not convinced yet - you are working in care homes with elderly. But if you've not caught it now after being exposed for nearly 2 years, maybe you're immune.

Hey Skipper said...

@gadfly: “So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination?”

You aren’t good at math, are you?

This mandate applies to the working age population, for which the coarse fatality rate to date is .0075%

250,000 remaining fatalities is unpossible by at least an order of magnitude. I’ll leave the calculations for you as homework.

effinayright said...

gadfly said...
So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination? Where were they when all of the vaccination laws affecting this court of appeals were passed over the past 100 years or so?

>>>>>Do I, or any other adult American, have to prove to my employer that I have shots against polio, smallpox, diphtheria, or even the flu....? Do I have to be tested again and again to "prove" I don't have the disease (much the way hookers "pass" VD tests and walk out to get re-infected)?

Could it be that radicals from neither side of the political sphere considered vaccinations to be somehow harmful - and yet in our enlightened times featuring social media outlets . . . wtf?

>>>> gadfly, these are not remotely the same as vaccinations for other diseases.

Next week I'm off to get Pfizer #3 and I don't give a damn about you dumb folks who choose to voluntarily cause overruns at local hospital covid facilities.

>>>the Pfizer mRNA shot isn't a "vaccine". Why do you think the CDC changed the definition of a vaccine to something much less effective in creating solid ** immunity** against its target?
>>> See for yourself: https://tinyurl.com/3v63rza2

>>> Why is natural immunity so much stronger than the "protection" provided by so-called vaccines?

>>>So why do you think, against all the evidence, that you will be immune from covid AND unable to infect anyone else?

>>>>There are virtually NO covid overruns in American hospitals. There haven't been in months. Even in NY during the early stages of the pandemic, Cuomo turned down Trump's hospital ship in the harbor, and allowed the Javits Center to remain empty.

>>>p.s. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but none of the covid shots will cure your emotional incontinence.

effinayright said...

gadfly said...
So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination? Where were they when all of the vaccination laws affecting this court of appeals were passed over the past 100 years or so?

>>>>>Do I, or any other adult American, have to prove to my employer that I have shots against polio, smallpox, diphtheria, or even the flu....? Do I have to be tested again and again to "prove" I don't have the disease (much the way hookers "pass" VD tests and walk out to get re-infected)?

Could it be that radicals from neither side of the political sphere considered vaccinations to be somehow harmful - and yet in our enlightened times featuring social media outlets . . . wtf?

>>>> gadfly, these are not remotely the same as vaccinations for other diseases.

Next week I'm off to get Pfizer #3 and I don't give a damn about you dumb folks who choose to voluntarily cause overruns at local hospital covid facilities.

>>>the Pfizer mRNA shot isn't a "vaccine". Why do you think the CDC changed the definition of a vaccine to something much less effective in creating solid ** immunity** against its target?
>>> See for yourself: https://tinyurl.com/3v63rza2

>>> Why is natural immunity so much stronger than the "protection" provided by so-called vaccines?

>>>So why do you think, against all the evidence, that you will be immune from covid AND unable to infect anyone else?

>>>>There are virtually NO covid overruns in American hospitals. There haven't been in months. Even in NY during the early stages of the pandemic, Cuomo turned down Trump's hospital ship in the harbor, and allowed the Javits Center to remain empty.

>>>p.s. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but none of the covid shots will cure your emotional incontinence.

Drago said...

The Poor Man's *** ***** gadfly: "So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination? Where were they when all of the vaccination laws affecting this court of appeals were passed over the past 100 years or so?"

LOL

You are really going to pretend you understand the first thing about the relevant legal rulings over the last 100 years?!

This will be fun.

Original Mike said...

The purported reason for the mandate has fallen apart as data has shown the inability of the vaccine to inhibit the spread of covid. So why does the administration continue to press it? I think covid has become their excuse for their failings (example: blaming the supply chain debacle on the unvaccinated) and it's necessary for that narrative that they continue down this road.

Scotty, beam me up... said...

I am no lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but wading through the legalese of the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, I believe the judges’ ruling is interpreted into plain English as “Let’s Go, Brandon!”.

Chris Lopes said...

"So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination?"

The 5th Circuit would prefer the current administration actually follow the Constitution. That's kind of their job.

Narayanan said...

Let us try this hypothesis : no need for a control population of non-vaccinated to cast aspersions on the validity of immunological effects of the vaccine in the vaccinated group.

standards ? who needs standards! certainly not our scientists

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, wouldn’t you say that gadfly is displaying moral panic?

Big Mike said...

[Joe Biden] really is a dictator isn’t he? He is what the left told us Trump was.

@Vance, +1

Oh Yea said...

But how many companies (and universities) are going ahead implementing mandatory vaccination policies using EOs and OSHA emergency regulations as cover while the cases are working their way through the courts?

Fernandinande said...

Whilst researching involuntary sterilization the other day, I ran across this:

"The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11."

... followed by the famous but mundane statement:

"Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Yancey Ward said...
My prediction is still that the Biden Administration will ignore the ruling, and SCOTUS, too if necessary. The Rubicon is being crossed.

How? They order a company to do it, teh company ignores them. they try to punish the company. Either they have to take teh company to court, where teh Biden* Admin loses, or the company takes the Biden* Admin to court, and the company wins.

With immediate injunctions by the courts.

I don't believe that even the 9th Circus will let teh Biden* Admin get away with that. Because no matter how left wing the "judge", if they allow the Biden* Admin to ignore their rulings, everyone else will do the same, and then the "judge" will have no more power.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

The Crack Emcee said...
Courts deciding Science are a joke.

No, Crack, Democrats "deciding Science" is a joke.

And what teh 5th did was address the law. The Democrats controls the House, the Senate, and the White House. If they need to change the law, they're welcome to try to pass a law imposing a "Covid vaccine mandate."

The fact that they didn't even try shows that even they know the science is actually against them

Greg The Class Traitor said...

gadfly said...
So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination?

We don't have a "simple effective vaccination" for Covid. If we did, then no place would have "mask mandates" for those who've been "vaccinated".

Where were they when all of the vaccination laws affecting this court of appeals were passed over the past 100 years or so?

Observing them being passed by State Governments (which have a generalized police power) rather than by the Federal Gov't 9which does not).

So, are you an utter ignoramus, or just a lying sack of shit?

Michael said...

The trick is to work for a small company where the virus doesn’t infect. You are safe there probably even without a mask or certainly not a double mask. Odd that a virus can count. Can OSHA.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

cfs said...
It is nice to see a bit of common sense in a Court's ruling. My question is, With all the different lawsuits filed in all the different District Court's, which ruling will prevail?

1: Because it's an "Emergency Ruling" by OSHA that doesn't go through the normal process, it went straight to the Circuit Court, no District Court's involved

2: I believe the 5th issued a nationwide injunction. As we saw with the Trump Travel Ban, it doesn't matter how many courts rule in favor of it, all it takes is one Circuit Court imposing a Nationwide injunction, and the Supremes not blocking that injunction

We've got the 1st, we'll see about the 2nd.

3: I suppose supporters of the mandate could pretend to oppose Italy nd file a case in the 9th. But the opponents are only filing cases where they expect to win.

I'm going to read the decision, but it sounds well reasoned enough so that any non-idiot non-lying-hack judge will make a similar ruling

Skeptical Voter said...

Every now and then someone looks at Brandon and his posse and says, Dayuum! They don't have any clothes.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

https://reason.com/volokh/2021/09/11/get-ready-for-the-osha-vaccine-mandate-circuit-court-lottery/

Second, 28 U.S.C. 2112(a) provides that multiple challenges to the ETS standard will be consolidated in a single court of appeals. I am grateful to Sean Marotta, who wrote a helpful and concise guide to understand the Multicircuit Petition Statute. But which court of appeals? The answer is complicated.

There's a random draw for which Circuit gets it.

but
Seventh, prior to the random lottery, a single circuit court can stay the rule. And that stay would remain in effect for some time. Consider 28 U.S.C. 2112(a)(4):

Which has happened here

Bender said...

Jacobson v. Massachusetts involved one person or at most a relative handful of people who objected to the vaccine at issue, not the huge percentages of the population we see now.

In any event, there is more than 100 years of intervening judicial precedent between Jacobson v. Massachusetts and today which recognize fundamental rights that the eugenic Jacobson era did not, including fundamental rights of informed consent, self-determination, bodily autonomy, bodily integrity, and more.

Jacobson is still on the books only because there has been no real case brought to the Supreme Court to overrule it. But if it was challenged today, I doubt it would stand.

effinayright said...

Fernandinande said...
Whilst researching involuntary sterilization the other day, I ran across this:

"The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11."

... followed by the famous but mundane statement:

"Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
**************

As I explained here yesterday, you got this all wrong:

@ Ferdinande: the Jacobson case held only that local health agencies could require people to be vaccinated IF the STATE LEGISLATURE had passed laws giving public health bodies that power under certain emergency conditions.

It is not precedent for the EXECUTIVE branch of the FEDERAL government issuing orders, mandates---call them what you will---to all citizens to get vaccines, or to all states. Moreover, the only penalty in Jacobson for non-compliance was a $5 fine---not loss of jobs, pensions and the like.

Finally, the quotation you offer does not appear in the Jacobson v. Mass. decision. It's actually Oliver Wendell Holmes's in the "three generations of imbeciles are enough" eugenics case: Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927).

Again, that was a state case---and it's one that has long been repudiated, if never expressly overturned. The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 now protects the disabled from such forcible treatment. One would think "abled" Americans would be protected as well.

Kai Akker said...

--- you dumb folks who choose to voluntarily cause overruns at local hospital covid facilities.

The vaccine mandates cause the overruns, in the places they have occurred. Staff resists vaccination -- medical staff; how inexplicable, eh? Inadequate staffing creates "overruns."

Bender said...

Pray tell, what is the Biden White House's science -- and as the Fifth Circuit opinion demonstrates, this mandate is a mandate that originated from Biden before any science was determined -- on compelling employers to fire their perfectly healthy workers unless they vax or constantly test without any consideration into whether those areas of the country have community transmission rates at an extremely low level?

effinayright said...

gadfly, you really ought to reads that opinion. Here it is:


https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/21/21-60845-CV0.pdf

You will learn why the appeals court granted the stay, and why as a matter of law such a federal mandate is unconstitutional, is defective on its face, and----wait for it----violates state police powers that the federal government cannot interfere with.

The court addresses all those topics head-on.

effinayright said...

If you read the opinion you will find this foot-note:

"13 On September 9, 2021, White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain retweeted MSNBC
anchor Stephanie Ruhle’s tweet that stated, “OSHA doing this vaxx mandate as an
emergency workplace safety rule is the ultimate work-around for the Federal govt to require
vaccinations.”"

*******************

The tacit agreement that the WH sought a "work-around" to avoid judicial scrutiny probably pissed off the Court, which likely thought it was being dicked with. That retweet is now part of the record, and will no doubt come to the attention of the Supremes.

Joe Smith said...

'So the 5th Circus would prefer to add another quarter of a million or so Covid-19 deaths to the tally rather than mandate a simple effective vaccination?'

42,000 people died in auto accidents in 2020.

A simple and effective way to save lives would be to ban all cars.

I await the presidential mandate...

Owen said...

David Begley @ 11:11: agree, this decision is a comprehensive beat-down. Head of OSHA should commit seppuku for helping his boss inflict this garbage on the nation. I particularly enjoyed the (IMHO correct) characterization of the mandate’s target as “non economic inactivity” which is not within the remit of the federal government.

Sebastian said...

"strained prescriptions . . . both overinclusive . . . and underinclusive . . . a purported ‘emergency’ that the entire globe has now endured for nearly two years,' and which OSHA itself spent nearly two months responding to . . . promulgation grossly exceeds OSHA’s statutory authority."

Haven't enjoyed a judicial pronouncement as much as this one in a long time. Way to go, judge(s). Don't start pulling no punches, now.

Scot said...

Farmer Filburn smiles.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The 5th Circuit roadmap to fix the regulation is to tie it to proximity of other people in the workplace rather than employer size. That’s a good idea. The Biden administration should do that.

It looked like the pandemic was close to over in June, but then came the Delta variant. Through October it looked like Delta was finally waning as well, but now it looks like we are going into another uptick. Death rates are still high, we could be approaching a million dead in the U.S. by spring. I know, that’s just a statistic.

Wince said...

Jersey Fled said...
Seems like a competent administration would have figured out that this wasn't going to fly in the first place.

I think you need to look at this as a hedge-style investment on the part of the Biden Team.

1.) If the mandate is blocked, and

a.) covid gets worse than it already has since Biden was elected (despite the vaccine), then it's: "we tried, but they stopped us."

b.) covid gets better, then it's: enough employers followed through anyway, without the mandate, but our overture was a deciding factor in making that happen.

2.) If the mandate is not blocked, and

a.) covid gets better, then it's: "we did it!"

b.) covid get worse, then it's: the "delays," the "opposition," the "states," Trump, DeSantis, etc.

loudogblog said...

The Crack Emcee said...
"Courts deciding Science are a joke."

I would say that politicians making medical mandates, based on politics rather than medical science, is a much bigger problem.

It's often been said that the Constitution is not a suicide pact. But now that the vaccines are out there, Covid is not a major threat to those who choose to be vaccinated, and that's the vast majority of people in this country.

I'm extremely pro vaccine, having volunteered for the J&J Covid vaccine trials, but at some point you have to let people choose if they want to take on the personal risk of not being vaccinated.

A lot of liberals point to Star Trek 3 where Spock says, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." But in Star Trek 4, Kirk proves to Spock that, sometimes, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.

I've commented before that it's odd that we aren't following the European standard for vaccine mandates. In Europe you have to be vaccinated or show the results of an antibody test that proves that you had Covid and have natural immunity. In the United States, the Democrats refuse to allow prior Covid infection as proof of immunity. That tells me that this is all political; they want a fight.

Also, if this misuse of OSHA doesn't stop, how far will it go? Some of your employees are smokers...here's a big OSHA fine. Some of your employees had a pot luck and brought in unhealthy food...here's a big fine. Some of your employees engage in unsafe sex...here's a big fine. Some of your employees drive gasoline cars that contribute to climate change...here's a big fine. Some of your employees expressed opinions away from work that were hurtful to other employees and negatively affected their mental health...here's a big fine.

Skippy Tisdale said...

"It's my understanding that vaccinated people spread the virus about as much as unvaccinated people do."

Then clearly we need armbands to distinguish who amongst us is unclean. That's my solution anyway.

Breezy said...

Anyone that lost their job over this mandate threat needs to be offered to be re-instated.

This administration threatened this mandate knowing it would be cut down, but thought it would take more time and more people would give in or lose their jobs in the meantime. It’s a depraved way to run a country. The good news is the Constitution is still a mighty bulwark against this crap.

FleetUSA said...

AlbertAnonymous is on target.

Michael K said...

I think it is a service to this audience that gadfly does such a good job explaining the left's opinion on everything. Maybe not explaining, per see, but illustrating the logic or lack of same.

Jim at said...

Employers with >100 employees = mandate
Employers with <100 employees = no mandate

But the left continues to scream, 'Science!!!'

Shut the fuck up already.

Jim at said...

Next week I'm off to get Pfizer #3 and I don't give a damn about you dumb folks who choose to voluntarily cause overruns at local hospital covid facilities.

Be sure to come back after your fourth shot, and your fifth, and your sixth - for a disease with a 99.7 percent survival rate - and remind us how dumb we are.

stephen cooper said...

as i am in a good mood today, i will explain some simple science. What we do not want to happen is for the Wuhan-enhanced virus (thanks to Fauci and his ilk - I am not criticizing the Chinese here)to continue to evolve. If it does not evolve much, then it is fairly likely the worst is behind us.
Sadly, the vaccines, in addition to being evil potions from the abortionist/evil wing of our scientific establishment (not Novavax, but that is not available) are not working to get the R down below 1. As such, the vaccines actually aid in the virus's own Darwinian purpose to evolve and to be BETTER AT HARMING PEOPLE.

PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE VACCINE UNDER THESE CONDITIONS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO GREAT HARM.

I understand their fear - some of them are incapable of rising above cowardice, I get that - but FROM A SCIENTIFIC POINT OF VIEW THEY ARE MAKING IT MORE LIKELY THAT MORE WILL DIE. Which is not what they would want to do, if they only knew.

cfs said...

Greg The Class Traitor said...
cfs said...
It is nice to see a bit of common sense in a Court's ruling. My question is, With all the different lawsuits filed in all the different District Court's, which ruling will prevail?

1: Because it's an "Emergency Ruling" by OSHA that doesn't go through the normal process, it went straight to the Circuit Court, no District Court's involved ********

Thanks for that clarification and information.

Owen said...

Jim @ 3:57: “Employers with ≥ 100 employees…”
Otherwise perfect.

Jupiter said...

Breezy said...
"Anyone that lost their job over this mandate threat needs to be offered to be re-instated."

I have been told I will be fired if I have not provided proof of vaccination by January 4th, 2022. I don't think the 5th Circuit's opinion will change that, as it is based on the executive order regarding federal contractors, not the OSHA clusterfuck. Mind you, I work remotely. I have never been to the office.

Mike said...

Oh, the Fifth Circus is inventing Constitutional Law and ignoring precedent to make a heavily politicized decision again? What a surprise.

Michael K said...

Through October it looked like Delta was finally waning as well, but now it looks like we are going into another uptick. Death rates are still high, we could be approaching a million dead in the U.S. by spring. I know, that’s just a statistic.

I see a strong resistance on the left to admitting this has turned into a seasonal flu. In the summer, people in warmer climates are often indoors in air conditioning. The flu thrives indoors like the common cold. In winter, the reverse happens. Those in colder states are indoors where the virus spreads. The warm states see a drop in new cases. The fact remains that this disease affects the old and the obese. It is almost harmless to children. The pressure to "vaccinate" children is coming from the teachers' union.

320Busdriver said...

Why are all cause deaths in the US for the 65 and older crowd up 69% year over year(weeks 31 through 43)?

This age group is 99% vaxxed.
This age group had many deaths pulled forward a year ago.

But yet..

+69%

320Busdriver said...

I’ve decide to hold off on writing my religious exemption request until closer to my company’s now delayed deadline. (Jan4)
They’ve decided we fall under the Federal contractor mandate. Most of us pure bloods are getting our requests approved with uncertain accommodations TBD.

I’m still hopeful that I will not even have to bother with writing that letter.

The narrative continues to disintegrate daily.

“Become ungovernable” that’s our duty.

320Busdriver said...

Bad cattitude on substack has it pegged.

These jabs are failing in an epic way.

If you wanted to cover up your misdeeds(crimes) what would you do?

You’d make sure there was no control group.

So you vaccinate the kids.

Become ungovernable

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

We’ll know the pandemic is over when media elites start blaming Trump for the failure of the vaccine to stop the spread of Covid.

Drago said...

Left Bank of the Charles: "The 5th Circuit roadmap to fix the regulation is to tie it to proximity of other people in the workplace rather than employer size. That’s a good idea. The Biden administration should do that."

LOL

Behold, science-y "Science"!

Resident dummkopf Left Bank thinks "science" is driving our would-be marxist regime's policy making....and that his "distance" prescription is all science-y.

Thats adorable.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

effinayright: "gadfly, you really ought to reads that opinion. Here it is:"

Now why in the world would you expect gadfly to be capable of comprehending the opinion?

MountainMan said...

@Bender. Re: Jacobson v. Massachusetts

If I understand that case correctly it wasn't really about the mandate for the vaccine. Jacobson refused to pay the $5 fine (about $100 in 2021) for not getting the smallpox vax. The court ruled the state had the power to make him pay the fine, that it was not unreasonable. They did not rule whether he actually should be forced to get the vaccine and I don't believe he ever did.

This 5th circuit stay (and potential SCOTUS ruling) would seem to indicate that vaccine mandates are a power belonging solely to the states. I believe the mandates for school vaccinations (smallpox, MMR, etc.) have been found to be legal. It will be interesting to see what happens at the state level but my main interest would be in what the consequences are for not being vaccinated. For example, can a person really be denied the right to work in a private business? Does that constitute "cruel and unusual punishment"?

I fully agree with the beat down on the OSHA route, as I mentioned in another comment related to this a few days ago. COV:ID is not a workplace hazard.

MountainMan said...

The State of Georgia does a reasonably good job with its reporting and created this report showing the impact of vaccinations from Jan 2 - Nov 2. Browse the data and graphs and draw your own conclusions. It appears to me the vaccinations have been effective at reducing hospitalizations and deaths among the vaccinated. It also has some graphs specifically for the most recent surge beginning June 1.

Bender said...

A good point was made about the current vaccines and virus mutation. Remember how MRSA came to be? From excessive use of antibiotics, a superbug was formed.

There is a similar point in that the insistence on vaccine mandates, the demand that people be vaxed NOW, has essentially killed any further development of vaccines other than the current Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, and a couple of non-U.S. vaccines. Other vaccines that could actually be EFFECTIVE for more than a few months and against the entire range of possible mutations.

You mandators are actually killing science, you are killing vaccine R&D. The only certain thing that you are accomplishing is that you are enriching Pfizer $$$$ beyond all their dreams.

gilbar said...

we could be approaching a million dead in the U.S. by spring. I know, that’s just a statistic.

not only that, it looks to me, like we're PRETTY DAMNED CLOSE to having had More deaths under Resident Biden, than there were during President Trump's 1st term

effinayright said...

Drago said...

Resident dummkopf Left Bank thinks "science" is driving our would-be marxist regime's policy making....and that his "distance" prescription is all science-y.

Thats adorable.
*******

Then there's that niggling detail about the Commerce Clause....and all the other reasons the Court allowed its stay to continue.

Left Behind doesn't recognize a legal butt-stuffing, even when it's right in front of him.

effinayright said...

Mike said...
Oh, the Fifth Circus is inventing Constitutional Law and ignoring precedent to make a heavily politicized decision again? What a surprise.
*********

How 'bout you pointing out the "inventions" in that opinion?

And what precedent(s) are they ignoring?

C'mon, tell us.

Dare you.

Double Dare you.

LA_Bob said...

gadfly,

Pray tell, Where does one get this "simple, effective vaccine" (Freudian slip not to say "safe, effective vaccine"?)?

We all pined for one eagerly last year. We're a patient bunch. We're still waiting.

Crack,

The Administrative State deciding science is also...pretty funny.

Duke Dan said...

This only addresses half the problem. The federal contractor mandate is not affected by this. And that too is an end run around the idea of a free people and the 10th amendment. If the government doesn’t have the power to do something directly (and I don’t see this power over the citizenry in my constitution) it can’t use a third party to do it for them.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

most of the deaths occurred because big pharma and the hack press and the corrupt left stomped on all the promising drug therapies.

There's no money in after market drugs.

effinayright said...

MountainMan said...
The State of Georgia does a reasonably good job with its reporting and created this report showing the impact of vaccinations from Jan 2 - Nov 2. Browse the data and graphs and draw your own conclusions. It appears to me the vaccinations have been effective at reducing hospitalizations and deaths among the vaccinated. It also has some graphs specifically for the most recent surge beginning June 1.
*********

I went to the site....."Access Denied", on a state PH to boot.

effinayright said...

Here's something else for gadfly to fatigue his lips reading:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/cdc-no-record-of-naturally-immune-transmitting-covid-19_4102046.html

"The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says it has no record of people who are naturally immune transmitting the virus that causes COVID-19.

“You would assume that if the CDC was going to crush the civil and individual rights of those with natural immunity by having them expelled from school, fired from their jobs, separated from the military, and worse, the CDC would have proof of at least one instance of an unvaccinated, naturally immune individual transmitting the COVID-19 virus to another individual. If you thought this, you would be wrong,” Aaron Siri, a lawyer who sought the records on behalf of the network, said in a blog post."

****************

Got that, gadfly, you chowderhead...?

walter said...

Stealth stimulus for small businesses in need of employees.
And..teachable moment for those who thought guvmint contracts were all upside.

Mrs. X said...

OSHA SchmOSHA. Private companies can make and apply their own rules. Ask Twitter.

Private mandates are as bad as or worse than government mandates.

stephen cooper said...

What Bender said.

wildswan said...

Jacobsen means you can mandate vaccines? Does that mean the state can mandate an anti-pregnancy vaccine? In Buck v. Bell the Supremes found that the state can mandate sterilization and that's never been repealed. In fact Roe v. Wade specifically upheld it. But then the Supremes made findings that required a very high standard before the state could intervene in abortion or sterilization or, one supposes, an anti-pregnancy vaccine. Or any other vaccine? Is there a low standard for vaccinating children or men if the issue is covid but, based on the same precedents, a high standard for vaccinating or chemically sterilizing women if the issue is pregnancy? Is the standard so low over here that vaccination can be required in men with natural immunity but so high over there sterilization cannot be required in women who will pass on a genetic defect or fetal alcohol syndrome? Is there a difference of such significance between "men" and "women" these state requirements make sense? How does all this work?

OldSarg said...

At some point people will figure out this isn't all being done through incompetence but rather it is all intentional in order to disrupt and break our society. . .

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Left Bank of the Charles said...
The 5th Circuit roadmap to fix the regulation is to tie it to proximity of other people in the workplace rather than employer size. That’s a good idea. The Biden administration should do that.

No, the 5th Circuit roadmap is "you're teh Federal Gov't, you don't have a generalized police power. Now fuck off and go away".

It looked like the pandemic was close to over in June, but then came the Delta variant.

Gosh, so what you're saying is that the "vaccine" is only useful against one particular strain, and having large numbers of people take a shot that makes them less sick because of strain X, but still able to catch it, still able to have it grow and mutate in them, and still able to give it to others, inevitably leads to the proliferation of strains that beat the "vaccine"?

So, you're saying the shot is useless. Welcome to our side

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Here, Charlie, let me help you. This is from the 5th's ruling:

First, the Mandate likely exceeds the federal government’s authority under the Commerce Clause because it regulates noneconomic inactivity that falls squarely within the States’ police power. A person’s choice to remain unvaccinated and forgo regular testing is noneconomic inactivity. Cf. NFIB v. Sebelius, 567 U.S. 519, 522 (2012) (Roberts, C.J., concurring); see also id. at 652–53 (Scalia, J., dissenting). And to mandate that a person receive a vaccine or undergo testing falls squarely within the States’ police power.