Althouse: At the Thursday Night Café...

October 21, 2021

At the Thursday Night Café...

... you can talk about whatever you like.

29 comments:

Drago said...: Over the last several years we have seen vicious racist attacks by LLR Chuck against Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson and John James, just to name a very few of conservative blacks Chuck has attacked.

Now that Thomas Sowell has come out forcefully and explicitly against the marxist CRT programs LLR Chuck supports, I shudder to think what anti-Sowell calumny will be vomited up by Chuck.

Time will tell.; 10/21/21, 7:54 PM
Will Cate said...: Finished paying off a fairly large IRS debt today. I feel both good and bad about that, on different levels.; 10/21/21, 8:26 PM
Big Mike said...: I see that NIH has now admitted that EcoHealth, using NIH money, funded gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab after all. For the nit-pickers, no, the NIH document never mentions the phrase “gain of function,” but that’s what the research was all about.; 10/21/21, 8:45 PM
cfs said...: If you voted for Biden, please tell me exactly what was expected, and how he has lived up to those expectations. Are you happy with the results of your vote? What has the Biden administration done that makes you pleased that he was selected as President?; 10/21/21, 8:51 PM
Big Mike said...: The longer one looks at Florida, the more one wishes Ron DeSantis was governor for all fifty states.; 10/21/21, 8:59 PM
Kai Akker said...: Painterly.; 10/21/21, 9:09 PM
stephen cooper said...: as you all know, GOD LOVES US ALL; 10/21/21, 10:28 PM
Big Mike said...: Guns firing blanks are still dangerous. Today Alec Baldwin killed a woman and injured another person when a prop gun loaded with blanks “misfired.” Never point s gun at a person unless you are willing to kill them.; 10/21/21, 11:07 PM
PJ said...: I use a couple of Althouse’s autumn photos as virtual wallpaper, and this is another lovely one.

@Big Mike, I’m no expert, and I may not understand the meaning of “gain of function” as well as you do. But what I got out of that NIH letter was (1) NIH/EcoHealth money was used at the Wuhan lab to test bat coronaviruses found in nature, (2) the research showed that one of the tested viruses was especially dangerous to “humanized” mice, (3) that should have triggered a red flag back to NIH so NIH could decide whether the research was too dangerous to continue funding, and (4) EcoHealth failed to send the required red flag. Now, I believe it’s clear that there was gain-of-function research going on at the Wuhan lab at about the same time, and of course money is fungible. And I don’t regard this letter as a trustworthy account of where the money really went. But I also don’t think the letter amounts to an admission that NIH funds were used for gain-of-function research; in fact, I think it amounts to a denial.; 10/21/21, 11:10 PM
Mutaman said...: If Trump was a band he’d be KISS. The make up, the misogyny, the sexual-harassment and the total lack of talent except for an incredible ability to chase after money and to market himself for stupid people. On the other side of the coin KISS is the Donald Trump of rock ‘n’ roll bands.; 10/22/21, 12:25 AM
Mutaman said...: Big Mike said...
The longer one looks at Florida, the more one wishes Ron DeSantis was governor for all fifty state

Desantis trying to preserve Florida’s reputation as a place where you go to die.; 10/22/21, 12:36 AM
walter said...: Drago,
"Thomas Sowell doesn't know how to talk to b/Black people."; 10/22/21, 12:41 AM
Owen said...: Thanks for the plug for Thomas Sowell on CRT. I must go read. He is formidable; I just wish he were younger and could clone himself a few hundred times.; 10/22/21, 1:49 AM
Big Mike said...: Is anyone else following the story about the Taliban beheading one of their female international class athletes for the crime of … what? Simply being an international-class volleyball player? Competing while not in a burka?; 10/22/21, 4:44 AM
Big Mike said...: @Mutaman, Florida is also the place to go if (1) one does not wish to catch COVID-19, or (2) one has a ship that needs to be unloaded. I imagine you would not go there because it is not a good place to be if one is hoping to encounter underfunded, understaffed, and demoralized police forces.; 10/22/21, 4:55 AM
Big Mike said...: @PJ, that seems to be the spin that the New York Times has put on it. But is the spike protein part of a naturally occurring virus? There are highly reputable virologists who say that that particular sequence of 12 amino acids that make this coronavirus so dangerous are common in genetically modified research virises but extremely rare in nature.. I lived in or around Washington, DC, for most of my adult life; I know a CYA memo that is trying to hide something when I see it.; 10/22/21, 5:13 AM
Kevin said...: If Trump was a band he’d be KISS.

Biden wound be Milli Vanilli.; 10/22/21, 6:16 AM
jaydub said...: Mutaman: "Desantis trying to preserve Florida’s reputation as a place where you go to die."

As I look around my community here in Sumter County, Florida I see largely normal life and activity. It's been mostly that way since last summer when I moved here. 74% of the county is vaccinated, 92.1% of the over 65 population is vaccinated. Florida's 10 current 7 day average Covid cases per 100,000 are among the lowest in the country, deaths of 2 per 100K is pretty remarkable for a state with an older population. In fact, they are so remarkable the national media, previously predisposed to DeSantis bashing, has gone silent on Florida because DeSantis has essentially defeated the current wave of infections WITHOUT DRACONIAN, ECONOMY KILLING MADATES. I don't know where you live Mutaman, but I hope you stay the hell out of Florida because we have a good thing going here and don't need your ignorant, hyperbolic political BS.; 10/22/21, 7:05 AM
MadisonMan said...: @PJ, I agree: You are no expert. The letter from NIH to Congress does say that US Funds went to do exactly what Fauci denied was happening. I give you points for obfuscation however.; 10/22/21, 7:23 AM
tim maguire said...: PJ said...But I also don’t think the letter amounts to an admission that NIH funds were used for gain-of-function research; in fact, I think it amounts to a denial.

It's always the way, isn't it? Admissions against interest rarely live up to the hype. But I think you're on to something with the money is fungible observation. If the NIH is funding research at a lab that does gain of function research, then the NIH is funding gain of function research no matter what program their money is officially, on paper, going to.; 10/22/21, 7:28 AM
PJ said...: @MadisonMan Respectfully (and I mean that), I am trying to interpret the NIH letter fairly, and I have shown my work. I have no interest in defending Anthony Fauci’s honor or in obfuscation. But I have yet to see anybody juxtapose a quote from Fauci with a quote from the NIH letter to show a direct contradiction. I have seen lots of commentary asserting or implying that the letter admits to NIH funding of gain-of-function research, but none of what I have seen quotes particular language from the letter or explains why the research described in the letter fits the “gain of function” definition. And as far as I know, Fauci has been careful to limit his denials to “gain of function” research. That’s what makes me think the “gotcha” commentary is overblown. I do not pretend to be a know-it-all about this, and perhaps I am falling for scientific double-talk. I would be genuinely grateful if you (or anyone) would explain what I am missing or point me to some online analysis that would do so.; 10/22/21, 8:52 AM
PJ said...: @Big Mike, My understanding (and again, I am not a scientist) is that naturally occurring coronaviruses have “a” spike protein, but they don’t have “the” spike protein characteristic of SARS-Cov-2, which appears to have been engineered by humans. I don’t read the NIH letter as admitting that the dangerous-to-humanized-mice virus in the funded research had a human-engineered spike protein. But I am prepared to be educated.; 10/22/21, 9:10 AM
Big Mike said...: @PJ, so educate yourself, both on the use of CGG in spike proteins, and on the use of CYA memos with “limited, modified, hang out.”; 10/22/21, 10:03 AM
Jeff said...: Mutaman: "Desantis trying to preserve Florida’s reputation as a place where you go to die."

He's doing a lousy job of it, then. Despite Florida's huge senior population, it ranks behind New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts in total Covid deaths per capita.; 10/22/21, 12:13 PM
wildswan said...: I understood the article to be saying two separate things. One was that NIH did research which had unexpected gain-of-function results. They were supposed to report such unexpected results but did not. The other was that the differences between that spike and the covid spike could not be explained by evolution in nature. But were the two pieces of research spliced together? Did NIH or Wuhan apply the acquired information and develop a new, highly infectious spike in the Covid-SARS family? The covid spike could not have come from the first spike by evolution but could it have come by lab work? Like Alec Baldwin's gun - two separate gun loadings with different types of prop bullets resulted in a bullet with a full round of ammo which Hollywood thought was a prop. Two separate pieces of research, neither of which was dangerous by itself, were, when combined, the cause of a pandemic.; 10/22/21, 1:31 PM
PJ said...: I have taken Big Mike's suggestion and attempted to educate myself further, with interesting results. The NIH letter, at paragraph 4, refers to "[t]he limited experiment described in the final progress report" as involving "spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses." It then identifies a particularly deadly (to "humanized" mice) coronavirus as "SHC014 WIV1." The letter does not say that SHC014 WIV1 was human-engineered. However, the referenced progress report, if I understand it correctly, identifies SHC014 WIV1 as a "chimeric" virus with a "backbone" of WIV1 and an "S protein" of SHC014 (see page 15). That seems to mean that the virus was spliced together by humans in order to test its effect on the "humanized" mice, which would constitute "gain of function" research. I'm guessing that someone with sufficient training would recognize the expression "SHC014 WIV1" as signifying a human-engineered virus, and that's how the NIH letter admitted the funding of gain-of-function research? Is that right?; 10/22/21, 4:11 PM
Bender said...: I may not understand the meaning of “gain of function”

Instead of loading up on jargon, let's understand it and call it what it really is -- engineering a naturally occurring viral danger to purposely make it more dangerous and deadly.

Quite useful for biological warfare, but of limited utility for helpful medical research.; 10/22/21, 5:26 PM
Mutaman said...: Jeff said...
"He's doing a lousy job of it, then. "

Please! After a year and a half of taking steps to deal with this problem, Florida is still averaging 128 Covid deaths per day. New York and New Jersey are averaging 30. Mass-11.; 10/22/21, 6:08 PM
Bender said...: Right now, Florida is at SEVEN deaths per day. But by all means, let's round that up to 128.; 10/23/21, 12:34 AM